On Spiking the Football and the Long Game
For many of us Berniecrats, Berniacs, and Berners, hearing about the “math” and how our candidate has no chance to win the nomination has become standard. We’ve been hectored 6 ways from Sunday since the first Super Tuesday, and it increased after March 15th and has now become an everlasting refrain in most of the interactions had with Hillary supporters. That is, when they are not telling us how bad a person he is, how bad a candidate he is, or how “he just stepped in it” – that’s been done ad infinitum now too.
There is much “fall in line” chastising going on which has led to the inevitable constant brow beating of Bernie supporters and it seems to be having the exact opposite effect on the outcome that those using it hope to accomplish. I know they are frustrated, but they are missing or ignoring a couple of key things in their beat down of Berners.
First and foremost, Hillary is not going to waltz into the presidency. She is the one Dem candidate who can (and likely will) motivate the rank and file GOPers to the polls – they hate her like nothing other, regardless of whether the reasons are grounded in reality or not. She’s not pulling Independents much either, and those folks – even the left leaning ones – aren’t going to be “give mes” to her in November either. Her net favorables are in the toilet and not likely to rise much between now and the general election – she is already known to just about everyone in the country, so there will be no “get to know” bounce for her on the general stage. In short, she’s going to need all the votes she and her supporters can get for her if she wants any chance of winning. All of this makes the tenor and tactic of brow beating the Berners even more puzzling.
This is my 14th election cycle of doing GOTV in some capacity, and if this is the level of GOTV that the Party is going with this time around, they are doomed in November. They apparently have not yet realized that they are going to need as many Bernie voters to come to their side as they can muster, and that includes all the Independents who have been in Bernie’s camp as well as at least a chunk of the new voters. If their truly honest goal is keeping a GOPer out of the White House, they are wildly going about it wrong.
Persuasion is how one gets someone to vote for them or their candidate, and many Hillary supporters seem to me to be using borderline bullying tactics trying to get Berners to support their candidate and shaming them if they don’t roll over immediately and pony up their vote. Using blame and fear and shaming as forms of GOTV *is* bullying. All of the Berners, including those whose votes could be won over are watching this all go down via social media. This is the least effective method of persuasion I’ve witnessed; it’s a turn off and it’s running rampant in conversations everywhere these days.
Those voters Hillary supporters seek to win over – their votes are not spoken for or owed to anyone. If and when their preferred candidate is no longer an option, it is up to anyone wanting their vote to persuade the voter to vote for them/their candidate. The voter has something that the candidate wants — their vote. The best form of GOTV for them, and really for anyone in my experience, at least on the left, is the “flies with honey” approach. The “beatings will continue until morale improves” method has been tried and didn’t work out too well lest anyone forget 2010; the best bet to go with is to stop using it.
The fear mongering is also out in full force, but this nation will not dissolve simply based on who is elected in November. Good Lord, we survived 8 years of Bush/Cheney. If, godforbid, Trump or Cruz makes it to the White House, it will not be the very end of the world. Will they appoint horrible SCOTUS justices? Sure. My advice: the Democrats in the Senate need to grow a spine and stop playing nice. There are parliamentary maneuvers available to them to help thwart bad decisions like that made by the POTUS. This goes for the Democrats in the House too. If you want to co-opt anything of the GOPers, let’s not co-opt their GOTV strategies; let’s co-opt their obstruction strategies – they seem to work fairly well as evidenced over the past 8 years.
I’ve heard the rebuttal of “but this primary is just like 2008”. I disagree. First, that was between 2 candidates that were establishment Democrats, so a lot of the umbrage had to do with simply favoring one or the other. This time around there is a candidate who is running against much of what the system stands for, and many of his supporters have waited a lifetime for a major candidate to run on his policy platform. Bernie’s platform is what’s driving a lot of his voters, and not just simply favoring one candidate over the other.
Second, this really is the first social media election. It was around in 2008, but it was still fairly new and didn’t have the reach that it does now. Now everything is broadcast immediately and has the possibility of going rapidly viral. Every interaction is out there and has the possibility of being seen. In 2008, the “bedside manner” of either candidate’s most vocal supporters was largely limited to interactions on a few key blogs; now it’s all hanging out there for the entire world to see. These are very different times in that respect.
Third, we have a candidate that a movement has formed behind, which brings me to the second major point of this essay. That point was basically put into words by my friend DkMich in a blog comment yesterday that read: “This isn’t over until Bernie says it’s over and then it is only over for him.” Michael Moore also touched on it in a tweet that said: “You're sorely misguided if u think we, the movement behind Bernie, have any intention on letting up. Do u not yet get what we're fighting 4?”
It seems to me a lot of Hillary supporters that I see are missing this point, or ignoring it wholesale. This is about so much more than votes for many of us. This is about what we see as a needed change in direction and putting together a movement to help foment that change. This is a long game and it doesn’t end in November. No matter who ends up in the White House, no change will happen without a strong ground game and a good offense. This is about the system that we see as emblematic of the Two Americas John Edwards spoke of; we’re done with that. We are going to rise up and fight against it in any and every way with all of the strength that we have. Any beating down we get verbally, whether connected with our votes or otherwise, only strengthens our resolve to fight. And those giving that beat down are giving the distinct impression that they are against us, hence all the bristling you see from Bernie supporters.
I can respect that you don’t think it can be done; that’s been said about movements for time immemorial. I can respect that you feel the best way is to play within the system and settle for incremental accomplishment; that’s fine. Neither of these thoughts though has a market on what is right and what is just and what can be; they are only opinions, as are everyone’s. What I cannot respect is denigrating wide swaths of people for the sake one vote in a general election, but that’s what’s happening. I have seen “we don’t want you and your vote then” far too many times over the past month, and that attitude gets us nowhere.
The goal of this movement borne of the Sanders campaign (and Occupy as well) is wholesale change for the betterment of we the people and working toward that change on every level possible, from local to federal. It does not rise and ebb with a single candidate. It does not have a shelf life expiration date. We will be there agitating for change every step of the way no matter who is in power. This is a long game and will last as long as it needs to in order to attain the change we seek. We are “being the change we wish to see”. I suspect that a lot of Hillary supporters would also like to see at least some of the changes we are advocating for and will hopefully join us at some point. Gawd knows we need some relief and a change in trajectory in this country. And if and when you do join us, you will be welcomed.
In short, I know it’s easy to treat us Berniecrats, Berniacs, and Berners badly and not care much about the fallout if you are simply looking at the short game – this one election – but most of us in the aforementioned category are not playing a short game; this has been the start of the long game we have been hoping and waiting for, some of us for a very long time. It would behoove Hillary supporters who want our votes this November to not only see and acknowledge that in their GOTV, but to perhaps step back a bit and look at the bigger picture that we see: it’s much much larger than one election and the short term consequences of that election. This is about the long term future of our country and we are in it for the long haul. We will be #StillBerning for a long time after this election.
Comments
Are You posting this OT?
If so, the responses should be um, interesting. As to whether this gets you kicked off the team. You have said what most of us think and believe, and I do not understand WTH we are being brow-beaten about. They can't win without most of us.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
If you do, let us know! I would go over to read that.
and I haven't been avoiding GOS like the plague lately, lol!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
she did!
I think she's over there now dodging the slings and arrows.
Many arrows incoming
Also some namecalling and the usual Bernie people are sooo mean and stooopid!
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Yep.
And doing a good job of it, too.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
That courage deserved a trip back there for a T&R
and, since I was there, a swing by OccupyStephanie's solid diary as well. It's been many days. Absence does not make the heart grow fonder for the sewer that place has become.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
btw - sorry i posted and ran here...
i was bracing for the onslaught there, but they are the folks who needed to see it... you guys are my peeps, my friendlies!
good to see you!!! :) nt
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
good to see you too Janet! :D
yeah. getting brow beaten too...
linky: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/24/1519569/-On-Spiking-the-Footba...
Take comfort from knowing you may have gotten through to
some lurkers. The others, meh. The idea that the Humpty Dumpties both parties have been shown to be can be put together again with calls for unity--or even duct tape--misses what's remarkable about this election in the campaigns of both Sanders and Trump.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
It's all about the lurkers
From what I can tell, the number of folks who actually switch in either direction is very low (like < 0.1%). At least judging from the FEC contributions data. Yes there are problems with that (e.g. bias towards doubling down on a losing bet) but it would have to be off by a factor of 100 to make a real difference. I'll see if I can update the calculation later with the March data, but I would be shocked if it had changed much.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
It's amazing how quickly
It's amazing how quickly someone could read all that and post a long comment of their own in just 10 minutes from the time you posted.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
Not according to them.
And if they do lose - it's all our fault.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
Well stated.
Not that there is anything anyone could say at this point in time that could get me to vote for Clinton in the General, one thing is for sure and that is the Clintonista's have made it even more unlikely that my attitude on this will change in the future.
Rather than try to build bridges they seem intent on burning them down and blowing up the foundations.
Personally, I am fine with that because it aids me in my new goal, which is to try to keep this movement going with either a new party or with a Green merger.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of the new "Aqua" party I always loved color combos that were Green and Blue. My favorite paint job on my Harley was a Teal Pearl.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
stolen twitter comment
by @YoungPPL4Bernie
Don't believe everything you think.
Vote Hillary? Here's what it would take for me
1. She'll have to win this primary.
2. She'll have to win the general.
3. She spends her first 4 years aggressively addressing climate change, bringing the big banks "to heel", not start any needless wars, address income inequality and address college education in a meaningful way. Notice how I left things squishy as to give her wiggle room. Now here's where I get generous. If she takes just ONE of these issues on and drives it through congress like Obama did with TPP, AND, even if it gets derailed by the republicans, I'll vote for her in 2020. Hell, I'll even donate a little AND put a Hillary sign in my yard...in 2020...
Nice thought but...
At this stage, there is nothing Shillary could ever SAY that would convince that that she is other than a lying sack of feces. Early in this campaign before it was evident that Bernie had a real thing going and before Hillary retreated to her vengeance mode, I would have supported her in the General. Just think, it was only in early March 2016 that the existence of HRCs personal server was not state.gov was confirmed. Her acolytes (a menagerie of skunks, weasels, armadillos, chameleons and dung beetles) have only served me to disavow my earlier intention Now, it's Bernie or Bust for me!
So true, so true.
Agree: the behavior is puzzling
The Hillary camp seems to just focus on one thing at a time. Right now it is to win at whatever cost. Hillary understands that opinion on the internet is a major factor in whether she wins or loses, she just doesn't have any sense of the big picture. By loosing their Hillarybots across the blogosphere, with their repeated attacks and hammering away at issues, it has become easy to detect the paid shills by their daily talking points.
They don't seem to have a long view. Or perhaps they are so certain they can rig the GE that the long view doesn't matter.
They don't realize that the populace is no longer going to accept this kind of manipulation.
The Clintons long view has always been
Getting Hillary back in the White House.
Sort of like Dubya and Cheney's long view was to invade Iraq.
What could possibly go wrong after that?
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Their long view is that progressives have no where else
to go, so no matter how much we whine and kick, eventually we will vote for the nominee of the party. After all, what is our alternative? This time they may get a surprise. I have fallen in line so many times and been bitterly disappointed in the result, that I'm just really through with that. I would be hard pressed to ever vote for Hillary. I would hate to die knowing that my one lousy vote just may have helped that psycho get back into the WH.
I don't think I'm alone in this. I think a lot of people will either sit this one out, vote only the down ticket people, or (gasp) vote for Trump. I don't see how Trump could do anymore damage than Hillary will do given the opportunity, and that's the straight truth of it.
The idea that we have nowhere else to go has to be smashed,
stomped on, Berned to a crisp, and obliterated. We can't be suckers any more. The fate of the world really does depend on it. We cannot be Charlie Brown with the football again - and we cannot cave in to bullying or fear-mongering. We do need to play a long game. We need to win the war, even if it means losing a few battles to get there.
It doesn't reflect well on them, of course, that they despise nice people who trust them, but there we are.
I think they don't realize that this is 2016 not 2008
2008 Obama sold a message of hope and change... at least to the more politically ignorant like myself. So the [ignorant] progressives got what they wanted and turned out in the general to support him. To the more savvy it was just to establishment candidates so shifting support from your favorite to the other guy wasn't that huge of a leap.
But that was before the government decided that the best way to handle the GFC was to give the banks 20 trillion dollars with no strings attached. It was before failing to prosecute them for their crimes. It was before occupy and the awareness that raised concerning how bad wealth and income inequality truly were. It was before Democrats had their own little version of WMD in Libya. It was before Gilens & Page. And it was before Bernie stood up and said "No, it's not crazy talk. The game really is rigged and you are the ones getting screwed."
So to them the progressives will come around because the PUMA people did in 2008. I see absolutely no similarity between PUMA's and BernieOrBust other than the end outcome of not voting. But the drivers are entirely different.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
And because he was such an "unknown"
managed to convince a lot of people to "believe" him. Well Obama broke my donkey's back. I didn't believe him, but I voted for him anyway, twice, lesser of evil and all that. Never again.
Media is saying Bernie is "toning it down". If he capitulates, not concedes but capitulates, to her and that party, I'm writing him off too. He is doomed to be Nader no matter what he does. I sure hope he puts his supporters first. He needs to claim victory for what he has done urge his supporters to open a new front.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
That's because they don't think stategically.
Everything they do is at the tactical level. And they are always surprised when people remember their tactical moves.
The Clintons are like the Bourbon Dynasty of France.
They learn nothing and they forget nothing.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
A lot like foreign policy when she was Secretary of State
People say she is smart. Perhaps that is true in the sense that she can be a clever tactician and she has a strong memory. I don't see much wisdom or strategic vision, however. Rejoicing in Ghadaffi's death as a triumph of smart power, while not being able to foresee the disaster that would follow (or even admit that it was and is a disaster) is Clinton in a nutshell. Eastern Libya was, after all the biggest supplier of "foreign fighters" in Iraq and there were huge numbers of radical Islamists there.
Strateegery...
Team Hillz: Moar Vinigar!!1!
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
"More sugar!" -Firesign Theater
(Love the soda pop can avatar, BTW)
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Drink the kool-aid...
Drink the soda
and be assimilatedand join us!Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
my comment when Hillbots tell me to vote for her in November
well, I can't say it, being repressed but it starts with an f and ends with off. I'll have to get shaz to tell them for me.
I will have a hard time casting my general election vote
for Hillary. If Charles Koch says that he can live with her in the White House, my suspicions have been confirmed.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/24/charles-koch-says...
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
someone should diary that over there... :o
They have.
It's a false flag operation, according to folks over at the GOS.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
Koch, Kissinger ... one more and we'll have a Trifecta!
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Let it be another "K" :) nt
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Kasich?
who knows, maybe he'll get the nod for veep
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Or Kagan :)
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Didn't she already get neocon Kagan?
There's your third K...
Yes indeed!
We have a winner!
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
He is married to Hillary's former State Department Spokesperson
Victoria Nuland, who I consider to be a Neocon as well.
They have no idea what independent means, what it means is
that you have to come up with a whole lot better than "not as bad as".
I went over to The Other Place
in order to lend support to poligirl. Don't know if it helped any, but I tried.
That bunch of people over there ARE an excitable group, aren't they?
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Excitable? Is that a new euphemism for obnoxious? ;)
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I'm a lady
sometimes.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I translated excitable (thank you, Warren Zevon!)
as tetchy.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I think most of them
are "drunk" off the Power that the great kos has granted them,
and their increasingly bad behavior,
since the edicts of the Ides of March, when into effect.
...
Each new day, they get more "full of themselves"
-- and that's not a good look.
It's their inner bully let loose in Lord of the Flies style
swarming over the victim(s) du jour. Ugly. Mob behavior.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
you made my day! in a sea of mudslinging...
you gave me a smile with your support. it's a gawddamn bloodbath of a comments section... only a few seem to really get what i was saying. otoh, most folks gave me shining examples of exactly the bad shit i was talking about in the diary...
I peeked again
Back last week or so in DK5, when looking at user comments (to check for uprates, replies and FLAGS) didn't flags show on the user page?? They never showed for me in the thread, except for the pro-Bernie comment that I made the flag disappear from, and got my TO. People used to complain or pride themselves in the number of flags.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I wonder
how many of them even care if she wins the general. Most of them view the Democratic party as a social club and their preferred candidate as a "star". And, after all, if she just wins the primary she makes history. I think she, her minions and handlers believe we'll "come home" like good little run away children who forgot their place in the pecking order.
I really don't believe she can win the general. For the reasons the author gave and more. I'm in Ohio and I will not vote for her. Most of the Berniacs I know will not vote for her and that's a lot. My sister, a lifelong Dem, went so far as to say she's voting for Trump should clinton win the primary. I won't go that far. If she wins the primary and loses the general you'll hear the wailing from the establishment and clintons minions that it's all Bernie's fault and his followers. Not once will you hear any of them say, "maybe we ran a flawed candidate."
I posted this in another thread earlier about Bernie running as an Indie. "Maybe this would be the beginning of a viable 3rd party. I know he promised he wouldn't but sometimes history should override promises."
I don't think that she can win the general.
For one thing, somebody somewhere has a recording of one or more of those high-paying wall street speeches. Republicans would pay lots of good money for a copy of those. They won't bring them out now because it would only help Bernie win, which they don't want.
Another reason is that independents as a whole just do not like Hillary at all. Whether they are being fair to her is beside the point. They don't like her. They'll either vote for someone else or they will stay home.
There just aren't enough dyed in the wool, my party good or bad, true blue Democrats to elect a president. And that's the way it is.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
The problem is that a lot of neocons would be
perfectly happy with Hillary winning the election. She is a reliable corporate hack and will make war where ever and when ever she can. They would take her over Trump and a lot of them would take her over Cruz. Like I said, they play both sides of the fence and stick us with reliably corporate hacks every time. Their bases are covered. As long as they can get rid of Bernie, they will do fine.
How many voters are neocons, do we know?
The Establishment is, of course, but how far can those issues sway ordinary voters? Is there any information in that? If it's just CEOs, we're OK.
She doesn't need voters that are neocons
She just needs voters that will vote for a neocon and that means fear. Scare people and they'll vote stupid. This has been proven many times.
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
Her militarism only neutralizes her gender disadvantage
I don't think she will benefit from fear in the electorate compared to whatever the GOP pukes up.
Not according to them.
They either don't need us or we'll be the reason they lost.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
I used to think that
But my understanding is that as of now, head to head match-ups are fairly predictive. If so she beats Trump handily, is neck & neck with Cruz, and loses by a wide margin to Kasich.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
The Hellery Theorem
A. All Real Americans Hate Neo-Liberals.
B. Hellery Is A Neo-Liberal.
Therefore: ...
Solution is left as an exercise for the reader.
Shall I post my Theorem to GOS for public comment and feedback?
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
I expect to be banned shortly
For this comment posted:
Be ready, Independents are more likely to vote Green Party and Jill Stein if Bernie is K.O.d in the convention and Hillary gets the nomination before her date with the FBI, why? Voter suppression and disenfranchisement, that record of hers, you guys with the ignoring facts to go for her, that you started with attacking Bernie, and the condescension towards younger voters as well as Bernie supporters, ignoring the corruption of DWS and the DNC who did NOT stay neutral and the way the MSM backed Hillary and blacked out Bernie.
Then you have the gall to demand we vote for Hillary after all the BS you guys threw at those who support Bernie with Her Paid Trolls hitting the internet to try and force folks to vote for the anointed Grand High Plutarch who is desired by the DNC to lead and rule the Corporatist States of Oligarchia? Hell no!
Elizabeth Warren or Jill Stein, but not Hillary the war monger and Trade Deal Lover. You people are truly purblind and I care not if banned, in fact I feel so strongly I will be asking my account be erased from this fake left site with all it’s Repug-Lite nonsense.
Enough of trying to play softball with them..
So long, and thanks for all the fish
don't be fooled should Hills pick a liberal for VP
should she get the nomination sewn up she'll continue floating Elizabeth Warren as a possible choice, or Sherrod Brown. Even if she ends up with one of those two, remember: it's a trick.
A Vice President has no power
"Not worth a bucket of warm spit," was one appraisal of that job.
Unless the president dies or is disabled, of course.
That appraisal was cleaned up for the public.
He actually said "piss".
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I thought it was the Fourth Branch of Government
At least according to Dick Cheney...
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
When did Sherrod Brown become a liberal?
And I sincerely doubt Warren would accept the VP slot.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I would hate see either of them become VP nominees
Senator Warren is terrific in many ways and Senator Brown is very good on trade deals. Being elected VP would neuter them.
Well, they aren't going to erase your account,
and you're going to be mocked for requesting it.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Haven't been there in a while Lenzabi
but, with the way shit is over there, I'd say you got the hammer. I'm saving mine for her loss in November, should she win the primary. I'll rub their noses in it till the LPO (little prick owner) hammers me...
it will be sad when she loses
and they don't get their pony
Once Comey makes his recommendations,
(and quits in protest, when the DOJ ignores them)
the whole dynamic of the election will change.
Think Independents are an uphill battle now
— just wait for the summer of their discontent.
The GOP will exploit it for all that its worth ... in Negative PR value.
Just wait.
That asumes they don't slow roll the decision
on whether to issue an indictment until after the election. I have my doubts that the DOJ will act on any recommendation by the FBI until after election day.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
supposedly
Comey and several FBI Investigators
have vowed to quit to bring attention to it,
if the DOJ does not act.
The implication would be act "promptly" ...
as such a "protest" would be silly the days after the election.
Executive Privilege, and the changing of the DOJ guard, the changing of the FBI guard,
All would be in play then.
Hope you are right
I don't trust the Obama administration at the moment. Not after the last couple of weeks.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
The Argument Devolves
When I said once I hear something I'm good, I was very good, very quickly reading the responses (finally finished your post haha)!
Very good article! Food for thought!
Bernie is a win-win.
On Spiking the Football
Why would ANY Berner in their right mind vote for Hillary?.... Can't think of one reason. Enabling a nominee whose past actions of horrible judgment in policies, who lies at the drop of a hat, who is Dorian Gray-level corrupt, to ascend to the highest level of world power, would make a vote for her guilt by fiat. Can you live with the guilt, Berners? I can't and I won't. To paraphrase Nancy Reagan: "Just say no."
That said, Trump as prez would at least tar the Republican brand with so obvious stink, it might just bury them for good. And, his inexperience in, well everything, will require that he relies on the advice of experts. And, Senate Dems will HAVE to grow a spine, as you mention, in order to save themselves and God forbid the country from The Donald's Supreme Court picks. Last time I looked they still advise and consent.
Tipped and rec'ed
And I'm happy to see that my AdBlock settings for TOS are still stripping ads.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
The only reason I would vote for Hilary
would be because it was the lesser of all the other evils. That's the way I've always voted. When I walk into the booth I see two buckets. One if filled with urine. The other is filled with vomit. I have to choose which one to stick my head into.
You gave me a different perspective. I'm not sticking my head in those buckets any more. For my own satisfaction I need Senator Sanders to stay in the race so I can have at least one chance to cast a vote for him in California. I want to know what it feels like to stick my head into a bucket of fresh air.
The people, united, will never be defeated.
The only reason I would vote for Clinton --
Oh, sorry. There isn't one.
Take care!
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
This
is the reason Hillary could lose. To Trump or Cruz. If a Hillarybot directly confronted me, this would be the first thing I would tell them and it's the most effective talking point, IMHO.
For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still.
John Maynard Keynes, 1930
Didn't realize this was here, too
YAY POLIGIRL
I hit the one on GOS, and read some comments. Ooooh, you hit you some nerrrrrrrrves, lol!
PS, The Great and Powerful Koz has SPOKEN!!
Mustn't accuse the Blessed Orange of OBVIOUS SHILLING, even when it's obvious. Zero Tolerance. You know, just like Zero Tolerance for Spiking the Football...
I love how he notes "you know it's gonna happen other places" like it couldn't possibly happen under HIS tutelage with HIS staff. LOL! Right, because you can actually DEMONSTRATE it.
What a slimy, fake con artist.
I read that fishwrapper kind
I read that fishwrapper kind of post by Kos, here si what I posted after reading his smarmy edict
"Sorry to say it, but you did set it up for this place to become a battleground with edicts and going so pro-one candidate with lip service for the other one. Bernie is the netter candidate, not because he is a man, but because if you actually listen, you see he is not for himself, he never said it was “His turn” as Hillary said, But this site is now more a pro-Hillary punditry site than a neutral support site it is not so progressive, it is shameful as I am watching the DNC pull the plug on democracy in it’s sick bed as they fake to love it. Real democracy is not to seek corporate money (who pay 70% to the R’s and 30% to the D’s, that is a losing formula.) This place went far south as soon as the March edict went live. You made your bed, you can lie in it. The Queen has been anointed before the Primary began, and the Hillary&Trump show is what the Media will serve to America. You all been had. so long and thanks for all the fish!"
Oh and apparently Markos has posted some crappy "Conciliatory" yet back handed essay there. I think he is worried about the drop-off of readers there.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/1520509#comment_61251505
Sorry Markos, I ain't buying what you are selling. (Basically a blatant attempt to get us Bernie supporters to cave in and come play Hillary-Ball with the DNC).
So long, and thanks for all the fish