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12/29 Open Thread - New Echota and Wounded Knee

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WoundedKneePhilKonstantin

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~~ WoundedKneePhilKonstantin
Public Domain Work Made Vaailable through Wikimedia

As I write this, the US president has accused Venezuela of stealing "our oil" and "Our land". If he knew anything at all about the history of this hemispheree, he would know that said oil and land is Spanish, by application of the Doctrine of Discovery. This evil-hearted, pernicious doctrine was originally promulgated via some Papal Bulls, but was included in US law by way of the US Supreme Court case of Johnson v. McIntosh in 1823. The court ruled that European discovery conferred exclusive title to lands to the discoverers and made the Indians mere occupants. This egregious piece of racist, Papist-Christian lunacy brings us to the Treaty of New Echoa.

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New Echota was the capitol of the Cherokee nation. This nation was a sovereign state with a constitution and a moderately democratic government. The Cherokee wre a largely agrarian society dwelling in established villages. The US government recognized the Cherokee as a sovereign nation through both treaties and a Supreme Court Decision. Their territory was largely in Georgia and the people of Georgia wanted their land and the Government of Georgia enacted state laws "nullifying" the Federal law. And then along came Andy Jackson. The newly lected President alwo wanted the Cherokee out of Georgia, This was probably not out of ravenous all consuming greed, like the Georgia populace, but simply out of pure raist assholery, as ws his wont.

Under Jackson, the US pulled off what might have been its ffirst successful color revolution. They found a dissident minority faction of the Cherokee would be willing to sign away their birthright and got them to do so. The actual treaty was completed on December 29, 1835 and became known as the Treaty of New Echota, which was then presented to the US Senate. The US senate amended it to be more to the Senate's liking and ratified it, even though it had not been approved by the actual Cherokee government or signed by their Principal Chief, who instead presented a petition with over 15,000 signatures demanding that the treaty be voided, which was, of course, ignored. This instrument was then used as the basis for rounding up all the Cherokee and marching them off to "Indian Territory" in what is now Oklahoma along the infamous Trail of Tears."

This is sometimes referred as the Removal of the Indians to Oklahoma or Indian Territory, but that is not remotely correct. Those doing the removing didn't give a shit if any of them got safely to the destination. It was simply a Rmoval of the Indians from their homes and lands. Their escorts' dustie were siply to ensure that none escaped to go back home or to settle along the way. This was not a journey, but a Death March, during which at least 15,000 died.

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The US 7th Cavalry had been working on refining their preferred tactic since the Washita Massacre of 1868, misnamed The Battle of the Washita by many official sources.. There, Custer had his forces surround a sleeping Cheyenne village at night and attack from all sides at daybreak, indiscriminately slaughtering men, women, and children, and destroying everything they chose not to steal. On Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. They surrounded the village as they liked to do, and at dawn openly went in to seize the few remaining guns that the Lakota had not already handed over. A scuffle broke out between one deaf Lakota and 2 soldiers whereupon the soldiers attacked everyone, hunting down and killing those who tried to run away regardless of age or gender. Meanwhile the Hotchkiss armed artillery battery began firing on the tipi camp full of women and children. Even though all but a small handful of the Lakota were unarmed, most were women and chilren, and many were shot while running away, this is officially called "The Battle of Wounded Knee". It was not even remotely a battle, but a massacre.

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On this day in history:

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1170 – Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury, was assassinated

1607 – According to John Smith, Pocahontas, daughter of Powhatan leader Wahunsenacawh, successfully pleaded for his life after tribal leaders attempted to execute him.

1778 – British forces captured the port city of Savannah, Georgia.

1812 – USS Constitution captured HMS Java off the coast of Brazil

1835 – The Treaty of New Echota was signed, ceding all the lands of the Cherokee east of the Mississippi River to the United States.

1845 – The United States annexed the Republic of Texas and admitted it as the 28th state.

1860 – The launch of HMS Warrior, with a screw propeller, iron hull and iron armor, rendered all previous warships obsolete.

1876 – The Ashtabula River railroad disaster occurred

1890 – Wounded Knee Massacre - 300 peaceful Lakota were slaughtered by the US 7th Cavalry

1911 – Mongolia gained independence from the Qing dynasty

1930 – Sir Muhammad Iqbal's presidential address in Allahabad introduced the two-nation theory and outlines a vision for the creation of Pakistan.

1934 – Japan renounced the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 and the London Naval Treaty of 1930

1937 – The Irish Free State was replaced by a new state called Ireland

1989 – Czech writer, philosopher and dissident Václav Havel was elected the first post-communist President of Czechoslovakia.

1992 – Fernando Collor de Mello, president of Brazil, resigned amidst corruption charges, but was then impeached anyway

1996 – Guatemala and leaders of Guatemalan National Revolutionary Unity signed a peace accord ending a 36-year civil war

2003 – The last known speaker of Akkala Sami died

2023 – South Africa filed a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice

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Some people who were born on this day:

If it squirms, it's biology. If it stinks, it's chemistry. If it doesn't work, it's physics. And if you can't understand it, it's mathamatics.

~~ Magnus Pyke

1766 – Charles Macintosh, chemist and the inventor of waterproof fabric
1800 – Charles Goodyear, chemist and engineer
1816 – Carl Ludwig, physician and physiologist
1876 – Pablo Casals, cellist and conductor
1876 – Lionel Tertis, violist
1886 – Georg Hermann Struve, astronomer
1896 – David Alfaro Siqueiros, painter
1903 – Candido Portinari, painter
1908 – Magnus Pyke, scientist and author
1911 – Klaus Fuchs, physicist and spy
1914 – Billy Tipton, pianist and saxophonist
1914 – Albert Tucker, painter and illustrator
1919 – Roman Vlad, pianist and composer
1922 – Little Joe Cook, singer and songwriter
1922 – William Gaddis, author and academic
1923 – Yvonne Choquet-Bruhat, mathematician and physicist
1923 – Morton Estrin, pianist and educator
1929 – Matt Murphy, guitarist
1939 – Ed Bruce, country music singer and songwriter
1941 – Ray Thomas, singer, songwriter, and flute player
1943 – Molly Bang, author and illustrator
1943 – Rick Danko, singer, songwriter, bass player, and producer
1946 – Marianne Faithfull, singer, songwriter, and actress
1947 – Cozy Powell, drummer, songwriter, and producer
1951 – Yvonne Elliman, singer, songwriter, and actress
1951 – Georges Thurston, singer and songwriter
1952 – Gelsey Kirkland, ballerina and choreographer
1954 – Roger Voudouris, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1956 – Katy Munger, writer
1961 – Jim Reid, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1965 – Dexter Holland, musician, singer, songwriter, and biologist
1966 – Danilo Pérez, pianist and composer
1967 – Chris Barnes, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1970 – Glen Phillips, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1978 – LaToya London, singer and actress
1982 – Gabrielle Destroismaisons, singer
1983 – Jessica Andrews, singer and songwriter
1985 – Alexa Ray Joel, singer and songwriter
1990 – Allen Kim, singer, dancer, and actor
1995 – Rina Ikoma, singer and actress
1995 – Ross Lynch, singer and actor
1996 – Sana Minatozaki, singer
2000 – Eliot Vassamillet, singer

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Some people who died on this day:

The only journey is the one within.

~~ Rainer Maria Rilke

1170 – Thomas Becket, archbishop and saint; meddlesome priest
1689 – Thomas Sydenham, physician and author
1720 – Maria Margaretha Kirch, astronomer and educator
1731 – Brook Taylor, mathematician and theorist
1737 – Joseph Saurin, minister and mathematician
1785 – Johann Heinrich Rolle, composer
1807 – Diogo de Carvalho e Sampayo, diplomat and scientist
1825 – Jacques-Louis David, painter and illustrator
1834 – Thomas Robert Malthus, economist
1890 – Spotted Elk, Miniconjou Lakota tribal leader killed at Wounded Knee
1891 – Leopold Kronecker, mathematician and academic
1897 – William James Linton, painter, author, and activist
1898 – Ilia Solomonovich Abelman, astronomer
1900 – John Henry Leech, entomologist
1919 – William Osler, physician and professor
1926 – Rainer Maria Rilke, poet and author
1929 – Wilhelm Maybach, engineer and businessman
1939 – Kelly Miller, mathematician, sociologist, essayist, newspaper columnist and author
1941 – Tullio Levi-Civita, mathematician and scholar
1943 – Art Young, cartoonist and writer
1944 – Khasan Israilov, rebel
1946 – Camillo Schumann, composer and organist
1948 – Harry Farjeon, composer and music teacher
1952 – Fletcher Henderson, pianist, composer, and bandleader
1952 – Beryl Rubinstein, pianist, composer, and teacher
1959 – Robin Milford, soldier and composer
1967 – Paul Whiteman, violinist, composer, and conductor
1975 – Euell Gibbons, author and naturalist
1980 – Tim Hardin, singer and songwriter
1984 – Leo Robin, composer, lyricist and songwriter
1995 – Hans Henkemans, pianist, composer and psychiatrist
1996 – Mireille Hartuch, singer, songwriter, and actress
2001 – Cássia Eller, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
2008 – Freddie Hubbard, trumpet player and composer
2012 – Mike Auldridge, singer and guitarist
2013 – Benjamin Curtis, guitarist, drummer, and songwriter
2019 – Neil Innes, writer, comedian and musician
2020 – Alexi Laiho, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
2021 – Peter Klatzow, composer

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Some Holidays, Holy Days, Festivals, Feast Days, Days of Recognition, and such:

Nothing to celebrate here

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Today's Tunes

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The Brits captured Savannah, GA

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Treaty of New Echota

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Wounded Knee Massacre

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Pablo Casals

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Billy Tipton

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Little Joe Cook

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Matt Murphy

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Ed Bruce

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Ray Thomas

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Rick Danko

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Marianne Faithfull

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Thomas Robert Malthus

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Fletcher Henderson

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Paul Whiteman

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Tim Hardin

Freddie Hubbard

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Mike Auldridge

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Neil Innes

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Peter Klatzow

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Merry xmas from Neil Innes and the Ruttles

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Ok, it's an open thread, so it's up to you folks now. What's on your mind?

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Cross posted from http://caucus99percent.com

open thread, Treaty of New Echota, Wounded Knee Massacre, HMS Warrior, Pablo Casals, Billy Tipton, Matt Murphy, Marianne Faithfull,Rick Danko, Freddie Hubbard,

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Lookout's picture

I live on the Trail of Tears. A couple of miles away is one of the many forts where the Cherokee were rounded up. Nearby was the cabin where Sequoyah (George Gist) developed the Cherokee syllabary. In fact I live in Cherokee County.
They discovered gold in Georgia which influenced the decision to displace these first nations peoples. However, many escaped and hid. About 8% of my students were classified as native American, although you wouldn't recognize them as such. North Carolina has many more Cherokee.

Screenshot 2025-12-29 at 07-04-57 Map of the former territorial limits of the Cherokee Nation of Indians Map showing the territory originally assigned Cherokee Nation of Indians. - plate VIII Library of Congress.png

The wealthy slave owning Cherokee took river boats up the Tennessee to the Ohio down the Mississippi and then by horse and wagon across Arkansas. Wealthy folks seem to always have an easier journey.

Thanks for all the music and OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout

wealthy Cherokee escaped via the river route. That looks to be a very interesting map, though I can't zoom it enough to read the legend. Wink

Thanks for reading
be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

usefewersyllables's picture

1864's Sand Creek dinner party, which specifically targeted women and children- some of whom might have grown up to be terrorists, after all. We've always done this with brown people who might be engaging in Wrongthink: regrettably, this is who we are.

13degF this AM- our absurdly long Indian summer finally broke temporarily on the 27th, and we got (wait for it) 0.5" of snow. Denver set an all-time high on Christmas Day at 72degF, and the Colorado snowpack is at its all-time historic low for the date. Wednesday's high will be back to 62degF, and the 10-day calls for no precip and daily highs in the 60s. So we're back to Indian fall, I guess. we're getting a second crop of parsley, sprouting from the stumps of this summer's growth. I've popped a transparent cover over them, and we'll make hay while the sun shines.

I hope that those downstream who expect water from the Rockies have made alternate plans. Unless things change, and quite radically, this is not the year for it.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

enhydra lutris's picture

@usefewersyllables

massacres, many of them very little known. I just today learned of "The Battle of Cheyenne Hole" (1875, Kansas) the army aided and abetted by buffalo huntres attacked a sleeping Cheyenne village. After the opening fire the Cheyenne surrendered under a white flag and the troops shot them down. A bit later a group of women and children came out, also under a white flag and were also shot down. Some Cheyenne tried to hide in the sane and in a large hole in the ground, but they were tracked down and killed. It is our history and our shame, even those who came here l-ng after, we all inherit it because it is tied to the land and is embedded in our politics and domestic and foreign policy, it is, as it were, our national "corporate culture".

Good luck with your parsley.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

usefewersyllables's picture

@enhydra lutris

A lot of those that happened out here in what was Injun Terrrrrritory are not well known at all, white flags and treaties notwithstanding.

They are legion.

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4 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

In 1808 the land that I've called home for the last 50+ years was "aquired" by the federal gov't. in some kind of sketchy deal that Wm. Clark, of Lewis an Clark fame, made with a handful of Osage whose right to make such a deal is questionable.

So this "deal" ceded 200 sq miles of Osage ancestral homeland. My little acreage sits on that land. Clark himself claimed to regret the shabby deal later stating that it might earn him a seat in hell, so the story goes.

We've found several arrowheads over the years that attest that they were here. Whenever I stumble onto one I'm reminded that I live on stolen land.

That deal turned out to the beginning of the end of the Osage tribe in Missouri. In several more dubious transactions between the tribe and the federal gov't they were first sent to Kansas and eventually ended up in Oklahoma.

But in what must have drove Oklahoma state leaders insane , oil was struck on the reservation and the tribe is now doing quite well. Sometimes Karma happens.

I've looked into the Osage history a bit over the years due to a personal interest and like most subjects these days, there are opposing points of view and explanations about their removal but there's no question that the Osage were cheated, threatened, lied to, harrassed, and even killed in the push to remove them.

It was 13 degrees F when I got up this morning. Typical late December morning here. What's unusual is that it was 74 yesterday afternoon. Wow, 61 degee drop overnight.

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

enhydra lutris's picture

@burnt out

discoveries is that up until quite recently the indians were ripped off by the BIA, acting as their agents, selling off oil and rights at prices way below market to non-indian cronies and such.

be well and have a good one

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6 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris Koch brothers had their hands in it for quite awhile too, outright theft of oil. They did this by simply falsifying the amount of oil collected from individual wells. Incredibly this was made possible due to an in place honor system on reporting production volume. Went on for quite a few years but they were eventually found out and found guilty of oil theft, falsifying thousands of documents and I don't know what all. I think they ended up settling for less than they'd actually stolen. No jail time of course.

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

enhydra lutris's picture

@burnt out

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

The rest of the tweet:

US President Trump during call with President Putin expressed outrage against the actions of Zelensky, stating his stance with Ukraine will be reviewed and stated "thank God I didn't send them Tomahawks" according to Ushakov.

The Russian MoD has been tasked with picking out targets across Kiev in retaliatory strikes.

Putin made it clear to Trump that Kiev will have to pay a price for their attempts to with the US President did not oppose.

It's all not so clear if the Kremlin will actually strike government residency in Kiev or take it out in other forms. But it's clear Moscow is furious. Zelensky also put out a statement calling it a lie but that's not going to change anything at this point.

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6 users have voted.

@humphrey Ukraine is soon to learn all about karma.

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5 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@on the cusp

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@humphrey but better said!

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3 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

usefewersyllables's picture

@on the cusp

I'm afraid that that will require converting Kiev into a Gaza clone, though.

I do fervently hope that the obnoxious little shrimp will not be given the opportunity to enjoy the squeeze he's skimmed off of all the free money we've given him. If karma was actually operative here, he should have assumed room temp a couple of years ago...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

usefewersyllables's picture

@usefewersyllables

which is bad form, but so it goes. I felt a need to listen to Modest Mussorgsky, in particular “Pictures At An Exhibition”, and more specifically movement 10, “The Great Gate of Kiev”. Ravel did Mussorgsky a serious solid with his orchestrations, to bring that suite to the public. And so did Keith Emerson, in a much more rockish milieu, and whom I particularly mourn right now. It is worth a listen…

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2 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

@usefewersyllables ufs. I had the recording, heard the Houston Symphony in a performance. I almost got glued to my seat.
Thanks for the reminder. I may listen to it during my upcoming 5 days off work.

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2 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

@humphrey

& RT, so very likely to be true. Very stupid, killing Putin would not end the war, he has all along been something of a moderating influence and a strike like that would free the more aggressive faction(s) to absolutely destroy ukiestan.

thanks for the news itm.

be well and have a good one

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5 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

forward to watching his show before he became completely UNHINGED.

ps. Obviously I couldn't be bothered to watch him make a fool of himself.

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usefewersyllables's picture

@humphrey

been drinking the Kool-Aid.

https://archive.ph/TW4Ww

The Global Persecution Of Christians Has Greatly Intensified In 2025

While Christians in the western world peacefully celebrate Christmas, most of them have absolutely no idea what is happening to their brothers and sisters on the other side of the globe. As I detailed a couple of months ago, most of the population of the world lives in a country where Christians are being violently persecuted. Believers are being rounded up for de-programming in China, churches are being burned to the ground by Hindu extremists in India, Christians are literally being cut into pieces by Islamic radicals in some parts of Africa, practicing your faith can be a death sentence in certain areas of the Middle East, and North Korean concentration camps are teeming with people that are suspected of worshipping Christ.

I stand by my fervently-held belief that religion, as a whole, is one of the worst things ever to be invented by H. Sap., right up there with nuclear weapons.

And that is saying something.

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5 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

enhydra lutris's picture

@humphrey

when we start bombing the ukies who are killing Christian Russians along the front line and in Russia. This is a xtian on xtian war and when we take sides, we too will be attacking xtians.

be well and have a good one

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7 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@humphrey Does he think before opening his mouth? Did he not get the memo that the Ukies were torturing and murdering Russian Orthodox practitioners? And our government said nothing?

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8 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

usefewersyllables's picture

@on the cusp

Mister Olbermann has followed roughly the same career arc as (for example) P.J. O'Rourke, going from being a passable humorist into permanent residence in some crypto-rightwinger hell of his own making.

Curious. And sad. Must be the glasses, which he clearly stole from Prue Leith...

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5 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

be quiet.

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