Open Thread: Thurs 09 Jan 2025 - The Decline of the Eastern Roman Empire

The Decline of the Eastern, aka Byzantine, Roman Empire

I happened across an article about the decline of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire a week or so ago and found it quite interesting. It's called 'What Brought the Decline of the Eastern Roman Empire - and What Can We Learn from It?' by Lev Cosijns and Haggai Olshanetsky.

Basically, the authors contend that the supposed decline does not seem to be a result of climate change. Yes, a volcano exploded in Iceland in 536 AD (and others erupted throughout the following decade) and the volcanic dust, etc, did block the sun in various places and perhaps caused a lowering of temperature - maybe around the world, maybe not. But there aren't any textual records of this happening (dust veils and extreme cold) in the Eastern (Byzantine) empire in the mid 500's.

The authors note that first instance of the Justinianic plague in the Eastern Empire happened from 541 to 544. This supposedly caused the death of millions of people in the Mediterranean (and other) areas. However, the authors of the paper don't think the plague started the decline of the Eastern Empire. In fact they see the 6th C as one of prosperity with economic stability for the Eastern Empire.


Detail of a contemporary portrait of Justinian I in the Basilica of San Vitale, Ravenna. Nice earrings! From worldhistory.org

Quote from the article:

It seems the Roman Empire entered the 7th century at the peak of its power. But Roman miscalculations, and their failure against their Persian opponents, brought the entire area into a downward spiral. This left the two empires weak and allowed Islam to rise.

I agree, and think the Empire in the east did have a lot of power under Justinian. After all, he managed to take back parts of what was once the Western Roman Empire, like Italy, southern Spain and North Africa. So the Imperial territory widened, and trade was doing well.

People have been talking about how the changes in our American Republic are leading to the USA being like the Roman Empire. And they talk about the decline and fall of said Empire. But, but... which one of the said Empires? And is it the actual end of the Empire, or the end of the Kingdom, the Republic, the one main Empire, the western Empire, the eastern Empire, the Holy Roman Empire? Heh, lots to choose from!

There are many, many parallels in all of them, and in what's happening in the USA right now, and what has happened many, many times over many, many centuries and millennia in history and probably pre-history. For example, those in power favor their children, right, Biden? right, Trump? They favor their friends. Rich, very rich, people get control, right, Musk? The 'Republic' continues, but the Senate is controlled by the rich and only really has a sort of ornamental control. That is how the Roman Republic ended around 0 AD or so, and those in power, rich, those in charge of the army, those related to these people, took control and the Empire started. It continued for a long time, around 500+ years in the West, 1000+ years in the East or longer. My Latin teacher at Penn always used to joke that the Roman Empire didn't end until WWI started with the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. After all he was the last Holy Roman Emperor.

Thanks for reading! Here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Hope the day is going well for everyone. It's cleaning day here, at least in a couple of rooms downstairs. Nikko's toys have to be picked up and sorted! My greenhouse cleaning has come to a sudden end, as the sink won't drain. Might have to have a plumber in, it seems to be blocked about 15 ft under the house. Fun fun! NOT.

What's up with you? How you doing? Have a great Thursday!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Lookout's picture

A cold 20F here this AM. Snow due tomorrow...how much is yet to be seen. At least the sun is shinning today and helping to heat the house.

Empires come and empires go. Will we accept our own decline? I doubt it, but we'll see.

Thanks for the OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

It feels like we should learn from history, but other than the nuts and bolts of the process, everything else seem like (to me) 20/20 hindsight. When we are not actively shedding blood in wars, we are continually in economic conflict, from nations down to individuals in competition with each other. The only thing I see in history as constant is the lust for power and endless greed, all justified by whatever mythology the powers invent to rally us along.

Science, engineering, education, art, medicine has their time line, their histories, but in the end they all wind up in the harness of the wealthy and powerful. We have gone beyond single monopolies to a few entities having multiple monopolies with hardly any push back. Monopolies don't encourage innovation, they prolong the profit taking. If nothing changes school kids will be learning THEIR version of history and call it education.

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snoopydawg's picture

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in California 4 months ago including the area that is being wiped out now.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/01/state-farm-canceled-hundreds-pa...

Why? Because they would have lost too much money if houses burned down.

I don’t know the answer to what insurances are doing, but there must be one. I can imagine executives opening bottles of champagne and laughing at how they acted just in time.

One billionaire real estate hedge fund manager put out a call for private firemen to protect his home and money didn’t matter. Sure one battalion could save his home during 100 mile per hour winds.

Gotta wonder how many of Kamala’s prisoners are fighting the firestorm for $2-5 a day?

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

snoopydawg's picture

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Biden sent $500 million to Ukraine. The total amount sent to Ukraine is $175 BILLION. Just imagine what that money could have done for America.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/01/biden-announces-500-million-ukr...

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

snoopydawg's picture

I won’t repeat what she said to me, but it was along the lines of FJB!

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

BFF

I wonder if Kamala heard what made Obama laugh?

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