Open Thread - Thurs 19 Dec 2024 - Saturnalia is soon!

Saturnalia is Soon!

Last Sunday I watched a movie! Me! I really, really enjoyed it, which shocked the heck out of me. And, it is a Christmas movie, although that really didn't occur to me when I watched it. I wasn't paying attention to that aspect. Yea, there was a Santa in it but it was more the social and cultural stuff the movie discussed that struck me.

The movie is called 'It Happened on Fifth Avenue'. It was filmed/released in 1947. Yes, it's in black and white. It's a comedy. No, I didn't recognize any of the stars' names, except Alan Hale, Jr (Hi, Skipper!), although I recognized a face or two. You can watch it, or download it, on the internet archive.


Mom (Mary), Jim, Trudy, Dad (Michael J. O'Connor): image from the Movie Database

The plot: A hobo goes into a seasonally vacant mansion in New York owned by the second richest man in the world (Michael J. O'Connor). He ends up letting in other poor people; a guy named Jim Bullock, who is an army veteran, and other army veterans and their families who have no housing due to a housing crisis. They are all poor and had all served in WWII. The daughter of the rich man, Trudy, shows up, and joins the people living in her home, pretending to be down on her luck as well. These people do nothing bad to the home and care for it well. She ends up falling in love with Jim. Her dad (Michael/Mike) shows up and she convinces him to fake being homeless as well. She calls her mom (Mary) in to help. Her parents are divorced because all her dad cares about is money. Her mom's wonderful! Jim and the other army vets are raising money, from the poor, to buy an old army base in New York to provide homes for the poor veterans and so on. Lots of ins and outs, but basically it ends like we want it to end, Jim and Trudy together, Trudy's parents back together, and the army base turned into homes for the poor.

The social commentary on rich versus poor made by the film, especially one of the end scenes when Trudy's dad along with the army veterans throws fruit at his assistant when that assistant comes to boost them out of their homes on the old army base, was awesome! It made me remember, we've done all this before, and made me realize, we are gonna haveta get more forceful to get things done again. TPTB will only back down if forced, or if smart (right, FDR?).

I don't know why, because this is more the 'Holiday Season' (Saturnalia is in a few days!) than a political awareness or learning season, but I have been learning a lot about old political heroes and their fights in the last couple of days. I'll let everyone know some of those learning dives when I get done with them Smile .

Ohh and no, I haven't gotten a new TV and I didn't watch the movie on the internet. I saw it while visiting my father at his dementia care home. My dad, myself, and a few of the other residents sat in the TV room and enjoyed the movie.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Hope everything is going well for everyone in the holiday season! What's up? Whatcha doing? What's in your minds today?

Have a great Thursday and post what you are thinking. We wanna hear it!

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6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

.
Your movie sounds like an interesting
treatment of class issues post WW2.
Historians treat that period as a wondrous
boom time (for the economy) but social
upheavals are rarely mentioned.

Thanks for sharing it Sima!

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question everything

Sima's picture

@QMS
That's what I was always taught. But I think there's always other stories, other histories, aren't there? Thanks for stopping by and have a great Holiday!

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2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

.
This one deals with loss.

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5 users have voted.

question everything

Sima's picture

@QMS
I'm gonna be watching another movie! What a clip!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Lookout's picture

Sounds like a fun film. I'm amazed at all the good movies on YT. Most are old and B&W but entertaining.

Winter arrives this weekend. Hope you all enjoy the season. Thanks for the OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Sima's picture

@Lookout
But the days get longer! We are due for a lot of rain and warmer than normal temperatures. Hope you are due for just... good weather Smile

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2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

Take two

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4 users have voted.

question everything

mimi's picture

@QMS
never wanted it. I even don't remember why and how it happened. oh, well, shit happens, just a bit too often.
Wishing everyone here all the best, health, peace, love and friendship.
I love this place and I think I will love it for good. Wink

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QMS's picture

@mimi
,
,
multi-polared
magnetic repulsion

glad you are still kicking

Q

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question everything

mimi's picture

@QMS
between? Sorry for being slow to comprehend what you mean. I am pretty tired of life. So, I apologize.

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QMS's picture

@mimi
.
.
there are ideals
counter-balancing
practical purpose

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2 users have voted.

question everything

Sima's picture

@mimi
I am also torn between two worlds, but I think my two aren't quite as hard. Or maybe it's three worlds: England, USA, and my family's needs. Holidays make it harder. Take care of yourself.

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2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

mimi's picture

@Sima
well, it was not worth the trouble.

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1 user has voted.
Sima's picture

@QMS
Just lovely.

up
1 user has voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

soryang's picture

As a youngun, I was mesmerized by the boobtube, but later I felt as if the acting and scripts, in general, were somehow better than the later productions of the film industry. That's an entirely subjective perception. I know a lot of the b&w productions of the "John Wayne" variety were by and large pure propaganda, and that I was unwittingly unduly influenced by them.

A new movie produced in South Korea is Harbin, about the assassination of former Resident General, Ito Hirobumi by national hero/ independence fighter Ahn Jung-geun. It's perfectly timed for release imo, given the current political circumstances, and the new right's huge effort to rewrite and suppress Korean history, especially that of the independence movement during the colonial period imposed by imperial Japan. The historical drama is scheduled for theater release in SK on Dec 24.

'Harbin' cast and director chart legacy of Korean independence hero

Pic below of Ahn Jung-geun, left, and his victim Ito Hirobumi:

(Source- KBS 1 History Journal, ep. 199) Ito was assassinated by Korean patriot Ahn Jung-geun, October 26, 1909 in Harbin, China.

This is from one of Ahn's pieces of calligraphy according to the Wikipedia-

"一日不讀書口中生荊棘" means "Unless you read every day, thorns grow in the mouth."

Thanks for the OT Sima!

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語必忠信 行必正直

Sima's picture

@soryang
Propaganda yea, but it was often slightly different, more people oriented? I don't know. Thanks for the info about the Harbin. I will have to give it a view if possible!

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

.
.
一日不讀書口中生荊棘

same goes with writing
to keep the thorns out

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3 users have voted.

question everything

enhydra lutris's picture

I saw that film a few times as a kid, would probably have a much idfferent perspective today, and possibly different today from last week.

Yesterday la58 (iirc) recommended aeon to QMS, and since I have stumbled across specific pages/articles that I liked before, I loaded up the site. (aeon.com) There I quickly found an article titled The Order of Anarchyhttps://aeon.co/essays/what-san-francisco-carpooling-tells-us-about-anar..., which talks initially about a Berkeley "organic" ride-share system, for rides from Berkeley to SF's financial district. I actually remember it well. It evolved on its own, out of nowhere, as a win-win for drivers and riders due to the peculiarities of the bridge toll system.

The author expands from there, referencing several works of a particular anarchist writer/advocate. What he speaks to isn't "overthrow the state" anarchy, nor "anarchist party/organization" anarchy, but the anarchy that just grows out of the right circumstances, a self-organizing phenomena where people, independent of governments or formal organizations evolve solutions to issues or ways to exploit opportunities. Unorganized self-rule that does not tend to become Lord of the Flies The Berkeley free ride-share phenomenon still thrives and will so long as the circumstances favor it and the law allows it. There is a lesson there.

The funny thing is, when I read the summary of the plot of It Happened on 5th Avenue above I suddenly saw the shadows and outlines of some such unorganized self-rule that became formalized and yet grew out of anarchic beginnings. There is much we can all learn and understand about the possibilities of success through "relative autonomy from the state". For starts, there is a booklist embedded in the aeon article, starting with James C Scott’s The Art of Not Being Governed , which I just might have to procure and read.

If it isn't obvious, I recommend the article.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

QMS's picture

@enhydra lutris
.
many good ideas to use
for future essays

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question everything

mimi's picture

@QMS
to think about the answers. Why should I question then in the first place. Sorry for beiing ... nasty.

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QMS's picture

@mimi
-
is generally simpler than the question.
IMO

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2 users have voted.

question everything

Sima's picture

@QMS
Am bookmarking it for regular reading. Thank you!

up
1 user has voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
Thank you for bringing it to our attention. This really speaks to me, 'the anarchy that just grows out of the right circumstances, a self-organizing phenomena where people, independent of governments or formal organizations evolve solutions to issues or ways to exploit opportunities.' Again, thank you.

up
1 user has voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

I much prefer old movies over the newbies. I only watch a movie on rare occasions, typically when traveling. It is interesting that families and family values depicted after WWII look nothing like those in modern movies, or even modern advertisements.
I hope your Dad is faring well. Great that you can be around for him.
I will close the office for several days over Christmas and again at New Year. A short trip is planned, just to see what the beach in MS is like.
Thanks for the OT, chica.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp And a good holiday season! This is true: 'It is interesting that families and family values depicted after WWII look nothing like those in modern movies, or even modern advertisements.' I don't know why it is so.

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

usefewersyllables's picture

to work my way through college was to get licensed as a motion picture projectionist. This slightly anachronistic practice dates back to the early days of film, when movies were distributed on nitrate film stock- as opposed to the more modern acetate stocks. Nitrate stock is also referred to as "guncotton", of course, and each reel of 35mm film is about a quarter stick of dynamite. Flammable, indeed. Like ya read about.

Having the film break between the aperture and the intermittent drive sprocket downstream would leave a frame of the print in the light path from the arc lamp to the lens, to get hot and catch fire- which in the teens through the 40s and with nitrate stock, generally resulted in the loss of the theater. After the first few of those, the laws changed, and projectors of the era had fire doors, and fire rollers, and the booth had automatic fire shutters over the projector ports- so that when the fire started, hopefully the only person who got incandescently dead was the projectionist.

Fast forward to the late 60s-early 70s, when non-inflammable acetate was the only film stock in use, and the fire hazard had long since completely disappeared. But some states still required that projectionists be trained, licensed, and ready to nobly sacrifice themselves in case a reel of the Movietone News decided to launch itself into orbit.

This was when projection was still a performance art, part of the show; and the reel changes every 10 minutes waited for no man. You'd thread up to the 5 second mark on the leader for the next reel, and then wait for the cue dot from the previous reel (which is supposed to be 7 seconds from the end: 24 frames/sec, so 168 frames). When you saw the first dot, you'd start the second projector, and it would come up to speed- 2 sec. At a count of 4, you'd open the damper shutter to let the light from the arc lamp into the aperture- but no light would make it to the screen, not just yet. And at the last cue dot (10 frames from the end), you'd step on the zipper pedal.

The zipper shutter is why you never saw a reel change, at least if you had a competent projectionist. Stepping on the zipper pedal would close the zipper shutter in the active projector, and simultaneously open the zipper in the projector you had just started- which should have accelerated over 2 seconds, and should have the very first frame of the next reel in the aperture, if you'd counted right.

And nobody in the audience should know that there even *was* a reel change- the sound changes over at the same moment. Done right, it works a treat. Part of the show!

Then on the other projector you close the damper, kill the motor, demount the reel, and put up the next reel, threading to 5 on the leader. Lather, rinse, repeat: done right, there are no gaps or warts from house-to-half until you bring the lights back up and send 'em on their way. And you damned well learned to count to 168 quickly (or cut a string to the right length).

The college I attended was a union shop. And the union guys made serious bank on all of the student-facing A/V stuff, except for projection in some cases: they hated the film classes and the exotic international student clubs, with a passion. And I just happened to have the state P ticket... So I also got to make bank, at 85% of union scale, projecting every flavor of Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Urdu, Tagalog, yadda yadda films you could imagine. Not French or Spanish- the union guys liked those, because they were nearly porn. Only the completely unintelligible ones, especially the ones film professors tend to show.

It was a very good gig. Saw a lot of film, learned a lot about life, could afford to keep a roof over my head and study. I might have to write down a story or two from that- like the time I got to project 5 Hitchcock movies on absolutely pristine, original release, only-twice-ever-shown Technicolor prints. Or how I still dislike Bollywood (they were right about that). Or the time I did a film class *vintage* vintage festival, and most of the prints (from private libraries) were indeed nitrate... Or the time I involuntarily participated in an international incident involving the Chinese government. But that's for another day.

Film. Yay! They also served, who only stood and wound from the road reels to the house reels, checking for bad splices, checking for cue dots, and counting frames... Any other technical film geeks (or SMPTE members) here?

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

snoopydawg's picture

@usefewersyllables

I’m watching Silent Witness which is a British crime/medical drama and the episode I’m watching now is about a theatre fire that started in the film running room. 12 people died and one person cannot be identified. Except that he might have been killed years earlier, but his body was never recovered.

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Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
Must be Smile

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1 user has voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
From an angle I never heard about, or thought of before; the projectionist. It's fascinating. I would love to hear more stories about the films, students, and all of it.

Have a great holiday and thank you!

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so