Open Thread - Thurs 10 Oct 2024 - Frank Church
Frank Church
A book I'm reading (Battlefield America: The War on the American People, by John W. Whitehead, 2015 - here's a copy one can borrow on the internet archive library) has a short section with some alarming quotes by Senator Frank Church, which led me down a rabbit hole to discover who Frank Church was. I'm a bit too young (just barely) to know.
From the book:
Senator Frank Church (D-Ida.), who served as the chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence that investigated the National Security Agency in the 1970s, understood only too well the dangers inherent in allowing the government to overstep its authority in the name of national security. Church recognized that such surveillance powers "at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left."
Noting that the NSA could enable a dictator "to impose total tyranny" upon an utterly defenseless American public, Church declared that he did not "want to see this country ever go across the bridge" of constitutional protection, congressional oversight and the necessity for privacy". He avowed that "we", implicating both Congress and its constituency in this duty, "must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return."
Unfortunately, we have long since crossed over into that abyss, first under George W. Bush... and then under President Obama...
President Jimmy Carter and Senator Frank Church from the Encyclopedia Britannica
The technology Church talked about is over 40 to 50 years old. The technology the NSA and all the other similar government entities (including our local police departments) has now is mindbogglingly more advanced and more intrusive. And we have few protections against it, because our government is not for the people and ruled by the people anymore.
As for who Frank Church was, I was immediately intrigued by 'D-Ida.'. Really, a democrat from Idaho? Wow. He served in the Senate from 1957 to 1981 (the last Democrat from Idaho to do so) and died in 1984.
He served in the army during WWII, as an intelligence officer in the China - Burma - India theater. He had an important part in the anti-Vietnam war movement and had a key role in the reform of US intelligence activities and put forth many proposals, amendments and such about both things. In 1975 he was the chair of of the committee informally known as the Church committee
which investigated 'alleged' illegal activity by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), and National Security Agency (NSA). Abuses including assassination plots in foreign countries and widespread surveillance and harassment of political activists and public figures in the United States were uncovered. The committee’s recommendations led to reforms such as the creation of congressional committees to oversee intelligence activities and an executive order banning assassinations.
(from Encyclopedia Britannica article linked under the picture above). You can listen to an article talking about this on NPR called 'The Last Honest Man' which profiles a book by James Risen with the same title about Frank Church.
Do we have leaders now like this man was? I doubt it. I thought Bernie would be like that but... maybe he has been and is in some ways, maybe. Maybe it's just that however effective the leader(s) is(are), in the long run it doesn't matter. We are on our way from being a republic to being ruled by a consortium of emperors or kings,
In somewhat of a continuation of my Open Thread post last week, this post by Chris Hedges hits hard about the assassination/murder of Aysenur Ezgi Eygi, a student from WA, by the Israeli army. It's worth a look if you can stomach it.
Thanks for reading this post. Here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!
Comments
It's Thursday! Almost Friday and the weekend!
My thoughts are with the people suffering under the effects of hurricane Milton. I hope everyone is ok.
Have a great Thursday, if possible and let us know what's up!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning...
Milton crossed FL quickly which was good. Several tornadoes were spun up as it approached and came on shore. Lots of roofs blown off. We'll find out more as the day progresses.
The damage from Helene will take a decade or more for NC to recover. Roads, bridges, and entire towns washed away. I hope all our FL friends fared better.
The Church committee (and Ellsberg's pentagon papers) was our first look into the deep state's corrosive effect. Too bad it wasn't effective in limiting their reach. Instead it has done nothing but grow as arms deal, drug trade, and human trafficking has funded their dirty little coups, assassinations and covert activities all under the table and in the dark. We are controlled by a mafia branch of government with most thinking it is the purchased congress and so on.
Hope all is well on the homestead! Thanks for the OT.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I was thankful to learn that Milton..
was not nearly as bad as predicted. On the other hand, it's still bad. And Helene? It's so sad.
All is going well here, as much as possible. The weather has been gorgeous, which is weird. Harvesting the last of the potatoes and starting to make jams and jellies and such with the berries we froze when we harvested them in the summer. Hope all is well with you too!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Hey, good morning
.
.
Incredible how dysfunctional the gubbmit' has become
brought into sharp relief when natural disasters occur.
Playing political games instead of providing help.
Good thing is people are banding together to send
assistance where FEMA won't go. I'm donating
construction equipment to be sent south in an effort
to rebuild where it is needed.
Something upbeat.
Thanks for the OT Sima!
question everything
Good music...
I heard the gubmint was giving people 750 dollars each after the hurricanes. So they can recover! Duh. I'm going back to listening to good music
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
The $750.00 is just an immediate
payout for right now needs. There is much, much more available to them from FEMA. They have to apply for the further help.
Yup. Church
was right. And that ship well and truly sailed long ago.
They don't make them like him any more. It is now impossible for any newly-elected senator or representative to avoid instantly being co-opted by whoever it is that pulls the strings. People who stand for office must now necessarily be, first and foremost, psychopathic grifters. And that is in no small part responsible for the pair of unutterable dunces that the Uniparty has put up for our selection this year.
The collapse of the empire proceeds apace.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
This is so true:
It is now impossible for any newly-elected senator or representative to avoid instantly being co-opted by whoever it is that pulls the strings.
So true, what you wrote.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
While I appreciate the up close pictures….
…..what the F are people doing outside during this? You see people deciding that yeah no we should be under cover and they barely missed out being seriously injured whilst trying to do so.
First responders were set up in the Tampa Bay field, but the roof blew up and rained down on them.
On top of the hurricane there were numerous tornadoes as seen in the 2nd video. Maybe gawd is sending America a message….Stop the genocide or else this will continue!
Anyone who can see tweets you can click on a hashtag and more will load.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Gawd's message -
A good one. 'Stop the genocide or else this will continue!'
I don't get why they are out taking pictures and film either. It's like the person taking that important (yea right) picture as they walk over the edge of the grand canyon. Heh.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
……
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Dawgs….
Gotta love them. I went on a cattle round up with border collies and it was amazing to watch them work.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I have a friend
who competes in sheep herding competitions. She loves it, says it is addictive.
Fun dawg vids!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Just watching border collies work is addicting
Gotta admit I didn’t think they would be able to get geese to go under the goat like they did. And they do it in a non threatening way.
The cows would wonder into ditches or up a hill and the guy would say get ‘‘em up and they did.
He took in stray dawgs and someone dropped off a white German shepherd. We worked for 4 hours moving the cows towards a gate and once they got there they started moving backwards..wtf? The German Shepherd was standing at the gate…blocking them from moving forward. He just laughed. He was a dawg whisperer.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Yes, love the dogs!
Nikko's class is just finishing, and the trainer suggested he go into a nose training class when possible, because he loves sniffing so much. And he's not a nose type dog! I think he should go into acrobatics, because he's such a jumper. If the ball is 6 feet in the air, he'll jump up to get it, and he's like 20 inches tall!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
There were several worthy candidates in the 1976
Democratic primaries. Church, imho, was the best, but he entered the race far too late to have much of a chance. Followed by Mo Udall and Fred Harris. Birch Bayh (who dropped out early for personal reasons) would even have been acceptable. Unacceptable were Scoop Jackson and George Wallace. That Democratic primary mimicked the 1968 GOP primary with an early but not well-regarded leading candidate and several late entrants.
The Democratic Party has come full circle since 1968 when its disdain for presidential primary elections was last displayed. Oddly, the GOP is less hostile. Fixing primary elections has been hard work and now they've demonstrated that they can skip it.
The US, and possibly the world, would have been in a much better place if Church has been elected in 1976. He had the character, education, and experience to step into the role. Carter was inexperienced in public policy, law, and electoral politics and out of step with the DP electorate at that time. But he did get the ball rolling on getting rid of that pesky New Deal orientation in the DP.
This is a good topic.
.
Frank Church and the Church Committee really was one of the last Democratic actions in the US. (A government for the People, that protects and upholds the rights and well being of the People.) After that, government Committees became propaganda shit-shows. Their purpose is to cast the blame for some outrage on their political opponents. Many committees come into being in order establish a cover-up that protects and holds unaccountable the elected representatives and other Instant Millionaires who caused the problem in the first place.
When a People confuses Voting with Democracy — they've pretty much lost control over their own destiny and don't know what else to do.
I was reminded of this earlier today when I was reading about high-level CCP legislators putting the finishing touches on proposed legislation pertaining to opening up China's national businesses to foreign investors (and increasing transparency about China's national business processes). After a quick read of the proposal I got the impression that China wants to reduce investment risks. Why would a well regulated national investment produce any Losers at all?
The Casino of Capitalist investments in the West is once again largely unregulated. This lack of regulation allows giant bubbles of distorted values and economic conflicts to form, resulting in instability and collapse. These lottery-style business cycles produce classes of Big Winners and Big Losers. In the end, a few 'lucky' winners come away with unimaginable levels of excess wealth beyond the economic context of any relevant human experience. And the class of Big Losers are lying dead by the side of the road, totally bankrupt and ruined. China wants to know why Big Negative Losses, which harm society, are considered normal. Why not regulate for a wide range of outcomes, from Big Winners to Small Winners. The only purpose of Big Losers is to spike the profits of Big Winners to obscene levels. Philosophically, China wants to produce win-win outcomes that will benefit all people.
In any event, China's proposed investment legislation will be sent out to the People's Congress who will distribute it to the Chinese People. The People are invited to mark up the proposed legislation with their own suggestions and ideas. China is a 'People's' Republic with a participatory Democracy. The People also vote for representatives in a number of elections. However, voting is not what creates a Democracy — or turns it into a government of, by, and for the People.
The US has never been so far from being a Democracy. The People have never been as unrepresented as they currently are, at any other point in the nation's history.
When the American People refused to keep their own Constitution up to date (unlike all other nations in the world) and refused to revise the rules that their government must follow (those rules are called a constitution) it created the conditions that would turn the US into a failed state. Which it has done.
.
Senator Church got out of DC just before the Neocon invasion of the Federal government under Reagan. I'm glad he didn't have to watch what happened next.
Keeping the Constitution up to Date...
I really wish this was possible, and I don't know why it isn't. Bleh. Good points you made and I really liked learning a bit about China's opening up their national businesses.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Ah, the good ol' days
when an elected government official actually gave a damn about democracy, justice, and the 99%.
I hope in my lifetime we get a Church clone in a position of power.
Thanks for the OT, sima, and the Hedges article you linked describes soldiers who have to reckon with what they did in war, how often nutty and suicidal they become.
I refuse to take a high pressure divorce or custody case involving a veteran. They are triggered by many things, become extremely violent.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
A Church Clone - I wish!
In our lifetimes, it would be good. I think instead though, we'll get an emperor. Bleh. Glad for you opinion on the Hedge's piece. I too, would probably not take a divorce or custody case involving a vet. Have a good weekend!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Frank Church's exploits
in the Church Committee and reforms in the intel community are only half the story.
He also spearheaded the creation of the Sawtooth Mountains protected status and earned the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness designation named after him.
He was a powerful conservationist.
Thanks for the OT.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Church was so multi-faceted...
In so many good ways. Didn't talk about him being a conservationist, but I knew about that too. I really wish more of our 'leaders' could do this things! Have a great weekend and thanks for stopping by!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so