Indo-Pacific containment of China

Submitted by soryang on Wed, 09/25/2024 - 10:11pm

WION: How the US is preparing for China war- Typhoon Missiles

Europe responds to rising Chinese pressure in Indo-Pacific

Link to recent NHK video above- no comments or cross posting allowed apparently. The video describes recent European state participation in joint military exercises in the Far East in conjunction with US/Japan Indo-Pacific perspectives. Then a former Japanese Ambassador to the US instructs China on how to behave while failing to comment on relevant top Japanese officials' visits to Taiwan to pledge Japan's support for its former colony. The former ambassador claims Chinese forces operating in Japan's contiguous zone is threatening. Don't US forces do the same to China?

Russian Il-38 violates Japan's territorial airspace according to Japanese claim. Japanese aircraft intercept and drop warning flares.

The flight pattern shown for the intercepted Il-38 suggests the Russian aircraft was conducting ASW operations of some type. Perhaps the Russians intended to send a message. Speaking of submarines-

What the Japanese intend to enforce along with the US is their definition of the maritime domains in the Indo-Pacific. South Korea will regret getting sucked into this Indo-Pacific frame. First of all, Japan claims Dokdo in the center virtually of the West Sea/Sea of Japan, which is Korean territory. Secondly, South Korea doesn't really have a dog in the Taiwan dispute the US and Japan have been exacerbating. Both Japan and the US have occupied Taiwan in the past. Also Japan claims the Senkaku Islets which both Taiwan and China claim as their territory. At the same time, South Korea really has no colorable interest in the SCS disputes between respective ASEAN nations and China that don't involve either the US or Japan; the disputes are mostly pretextual for both the US and Japan to expand their military presence in the region.

Japan is in the process of doubling its defense budget, and converting its so called self defense forces to offensive military operations anywhere it deems appropriate. Ostensibly, this would be "in defense of" its alliance with the US or other partners. By the same token, the former Japanese ambassador asserts that Chinese forces shouldn't operate outside their own "territory." Yet Japan seeks to expand it influence and extend its military power throughout the Indo-Pacific. Others may not recognize the pattern but the US-Japan-European power co-dominion extension in the Asian littoral countries is a repetition of patterns that led to WWII in the Pacific. It is little more than a plan to contain China, once described in a WSJ article as a plan to "strangle China." The former ambassador repeatedly asks the question concerning China's intent. One might ask of the same of the US and Japan. The assumption is that everything on their side is being done in good faith, in accordance with the so called "rules based order." It appears that the rules based order is whatever they say it is.

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Indo-Pacific US Japan China Russia Korea
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Submitted by QMS on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 1:34am
QMS's picture

.
For the life of me
can not understand
the provocations of US / NATO military forces in that region.
This is not about containment of North Korea (relatively small force)
so much as threatening China (for obvious financial fears).
The consequence is the military development of both nations to
protect their interests. Blinken and Lloyd are not content to just poke
the bear, but opt to rattle the dragon as well.

The US insecurity apparatus is being set-up for a major failure.
We will suffer the consequences of this stupidity.

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Submitted by soryang on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 7:38am
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@QMS

It's really just my impression because the information available is not as well laid out as I would like to see in US/western media. Who could expect that? Go with whatever signs and indications that appear significant. This is an technique I learned from an old warrant I met 50 years ago almost to the day. I'm wary of the China, Vietnam syndrome all over again. James Bradley and Stephen Kinzer had it exactly right. Step 1: racism, prejudice, imperial mission; media frenzy. Step 2: Suppress all other perspectives, including persecution of those with a better understanding; Step 3: Go to war; Step 4: Millions die; Step 5: How did that happen? Denialism and more suppression of conflicting accounts and assessments.

I heard Tom Cotton grilling some poor Chinese American citizen the other day. It sounded like he was reading a Joe McCarthy series of questions from the HUAC days. Are you now or have you ever been...(Chinese)? I am sure his script was deliberately written that way to mobilize the worst prejudices and unreasoning fears of the public. I found it so offensive. This is the rule in the media messaging about China and Chinese Americans, it appeals to the worst instincts of the ill informed. The same applies to the other slaughters and conflicts already ongoing that others here cover so well.

This is related to something you mentioned a week ago:

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Submitted by QMS on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 8:58am
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@soryang
.
.
.
Russia is very close to Alaska.
Saw where the US military is scrambling troopsinto the Intuit territory
(for all the good that will do)? Think the Pentagon has gone
off the deep end trying to entertain the neocon fantasy plans. Too many fronts,
too few backs. Only see trouble and more trouble. Unless someone finds reverse.

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Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 4:41pm
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@QMS @QMS who conquered most of the North American continent. China was and is the source of great wealth for Europe - Go West Young Man eventually one reaches China. The ruling class kept bringing their own labor force indentured servants from Europe and rest of the world providing refugees and slaves. USA ruling class after obtaining control of the US began seriously moving Westward to obtain more world territory from British and other European nations control.

Korea is Japan's gateway to controlling China. It is why Theodore Roosevelt did not honor Treaty obligations when Japan attacked, killed and removed the monarchy in August 1910. Japanese went on to oust many European colonizers from East Asia. Franklin Roosevelt his cousin then worked on obtaining the expanded territory claimed by the Japanese. He also created the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) to provide intelligence and fighting force outside of Military command structure, State Department control and British influence. Intent was to report directly to the President's staff.

(note timeline for relevant intelligence services: Roosevelt created OSS. Truman disbanded and divvy upped responsibility and assets between Army, Navy, State Department. CIA created within 2 years and first four directors were alternating Navy and Army, Eisenhower appointed Allen Dulles CIA and his brother John Foster Dulles to State Department. They were the grandsons of John Foster, a lawyer who served as secretary of state under President Benjamin Harrison, and nephews of Robert Lansing, who also served as secretary of state, under President Woodrow Wilson. Makes one wonder what was discussed at family gatherings for the holidays. John F Kennedy fired Allen Dulles.)

Chiang Kai-shek, Republic of China leader, prevented USA from gaining legal control of Taiwan and many other Islands after the end of WII. Mao Zedong, People's Republic of China, came to the aid of Korea when US was using their influence at United Nations to obtain total control of the area.

Source on Korea and Taiwan by Zhong Xiangyu

Taiwan - Ep. 9: Taiwan Separatism pt. 1: The Origins (1:11 min)

Korea - The Korean War: A Civilian's Recollection">The Korean War: A Civilian's Recollection (38 min) amazing story she lived to tell

Korea resent past and present - Ep. 6: Meeting "Douglas MacArthur" w/ Mario Cavolo (1:38 min) includes additional details from Zhong Xiangyu's Great Aunt.

It is the first conflict United Nation manipulation was used to meet specific goal of conquest. 4 millions lives were lost. The cycle keeps being repeated.

edit: fix link

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Submitted by QMS on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 1:04pm
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@studentofearth
.
.
we do know the empire game plan as it is being played-out
the realization that this is a long train running does not make it
any better ~

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Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 4:20pm
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@QMS separation of events. Nothing to see here, trust the experts to keep you safe and keep you informed.

It is the children and grandchildren of the events shaping post WWII rediscovering the narratives of various sides of history and challenging the existing propaganda. They ran into the mismatch of official history and family stories or into the wall of silence and became curious.

We are lucky to live in a time of easy self-publication and worldwide networking. They are sharing their research and understanding. Watching this unfold to a larger audience at a quickening rate makes me hopeful for the future.

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Submitted by soryang on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 4:59pm
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@studentofearth @studentofearth

Thanks SOE. There's a lot to digest there, but I'll try to contain myself.

In July 1907, after Resident General Ito Hirobumi had forced King Gojong to abdicate, Japan disbanded the Korean army, and took over internal control of Korea, abandoning all pretense of Korean autonomy.

One could argue that Korea already lost its sovereignty to in 1905 after the "Treaty" of Eulsa was signed by the "traitors of Eulsa." The monarchy was officially abolished by the Japanese annexation in 1910.

On 21 January 1919, Gojong died suddenly at Deoksugung at the age of 66. He was virtually a hostage of the Japanese for all that time. It was believed that the Japanese poisoned him.

In fact, one could say, that the Korean monarch was at the mercy of the Japanese more or less, from the time Queen Min was assassinated by the Japanese in 1895.

Thanks for your comments SOF. I had seen the first Xiangyu episode you linked to, and I'm motivated to watch it again. (I couldn't get the second link to work). I started watching the discussion with the Mario Cavolo discussion. Xiangyu has an interesting family history that I didn't know. Indeed most people who survived the tumultuous events in the region in the 20th Century I'm sure had experiences that would be interesting to hear.

I found a book about China Taiwan relations during the time Taiwan was a Japanese colony, and started reading that.

Imperial Gateway: Colonial Taiwan and Japan's Expansion in South China and Southeast Asia, 1895ñ1945

I found this also:

Since opium was transported mainly by ship, it is not at all surprising that shipbuilding and carpentry became avenues through which many prominent families found their way into the trade. Among these, there was one that would become exceptionally renowned: the Delano clan.

The Blue-Blood Families That Made Fortunes in the Opium Trade

(edit typos)

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Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 5:42pm
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@soryang Read the title of the Nation article last winter - with your prompt looked a little deeper, wow is it detailed.

I get muddled on Korean history when working for memory - the recap was helpful. I found when working with Korean War vets they would slip back into a PTSD shock phase faster than any other vet group from other conflicts. Other than the TV program MASH I don't recall general acknowledgement or discussion of the Korean Conflict.

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Submitted by soryang on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 8:55pm
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@studentofearth

Xiangyu makes a great point about the legal status of Taiwan "not being established" till 1954. This is something most people in the west haven't heard. Also the part about Syngman Rhee wanting war with North Korea, starting the war, and refusing to sign the armistice, is something rarely heard in English. Many of the officers leading the ROK army at the time, were Japanese trained Korean officers, with experience tracking down and killing Korean independence fighters in Manchukuo. Rhee's administration was riddled with police and administrators who were former Japanese collaborators. IF Stone's book on the Korean Conflict is one of the early English language histories to document the start of the Korean War and who really instigated or triggered it's onset. As to the legal status of Taiwan being undetermined I came across a Fordham Law Review article on this three years ago and wrote a critique of the theory that title is still actually vested in the allies (meaning the US).

I read a fair number of English language history books on the Korean war, most of them by far are very biased in their approach. I was only familiar with one really bad Korean war vet ptsd case, and yes it was very bad, and his benefits were unjustly denied for decades. I fixed that. Most ptsd cases i became familiar with were from Vietnam.

I'm impressed that Cavolo was moved by James Bradley's The China Mirage.

(edit spelling) PS Hey now I know where Shenyang is!

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Submitted by soryang on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 6:14am
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Where does the military expansion end?

The US military presence in northern Australia is growing, including increased US defence spending and international participation in joint-force exercises.
Experts say Indonesia, one of Australia's closest Asian neighbours, is concerned the US's expanded presence could increase tensions in the region.
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Submitted by QMS on Thu, 09/26/2024 - 11:34pm
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@soryang
.
.
is to drag another country into the destruction
of american hegemony projections
do not think it will work out quite the same as
military planners wish to force it?

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Submitted by Blue Republic on Fri, 09/27/2024 - 7:23am

You assert that:
" Japan seeks to expand it influence and extend its military power throughout the Indo-Pacific"
Statement based on what, exactly?

Are they courting Pacific island countries for security deal and basing rights? Oh, that would be the PRC, wouldn't it. Do they have plans for a major naval build up including aircraft carriers and nuclear powered subs? Oh, that would also be the PRC.

I don't have a problem with Japan having a real military. My reservations are about what *kind*, who will be in charge of it, that sort of thing.

Armed neutrality would be the way to go IMHO but for it to be viable the 'armed' part needs to be credible. Something along the lines of pre-NATO Finland/Sweden/Switzerland adapted for Japanese conditions would be appropriate.

But that would (among other things) require real commitment to civil defense and a widely armed, trained and organized populace - which the ruling elite have zero interest in fostering.

PS - you also state that Taiwan has previously been under US occupation - when and under what circumstances? I can't find any reference to it.

Fun fact: the first permanent settlement of Taiwan other than the non-Chinese native population was not Chinese, but European (Dutch and Portuguese). So much for it 'always' having been part of China.

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Submitted by soryang on Fri, 09/27/2024 - 12:41pm
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@Blue Republic ...who had been stationed in Taiwan for some time. He didn't like it when the US had to pull out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Taiwan_Defense_Command

The United States Taiwan Defense Command (USTDC; Chinese: 美軍協防台灣司令部) was a sub-unified command of the United States Armed Forces operating in Taiwan from December 1954 to April 1979.

The US armed forces had tens of thousands of troops stationed there before the adoption of the Shanghai communique.

As for Japan's intentions why are they seeking so called facilitation agreements so they can bring their armed forces into South Korea and the Philippines formerly occupied territories? Why did they deploy a fighter squadron to India?

Marcos is a tool like Yoon but worse-

Japan and the Philippines sign a defense pact in the face of shared alarm over China

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — Japan and the Philippines signed a key defense pact Monday allowing the deployment of Japanese forces for joint drills in the Southeast Asian nation that came under brutal Japanese occupation in World War II but is now building an alliance with Tokyo as both face an increasingly assertive China.

The Reciprocal Access Agreement, which similarly allows Filipino forces to enter Japan for joint combat training, was signed by Philippine Defense Secretary Gilberto Teodoro and Japanese Foreign Minister Yoko Kamikawa in a Manila ceremony witnessed by President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. It would take effect after ratification by the countries’ legislatures, Philippine and Japanese officials said.

If you trust the Japanese leadership i have a bridge I want to sell you. Maybe when they begin deploying nukes people will finally get the implications of the Nippon Kaigi agenda to make Japan great again. The US thinks its a grand idea to make Japan a great military power again. Big mistake.

Japan and the Philippines sign a defense pact in the face of shared alarm over China

Philippine ratification of Japan military pact uncertain in 2024: Senate leader

Some Filipino activist groups, however, have opposed the signing of the pact. These include Lila Pilipina, a group representing the victims of wartime military sexual slavery by Japanese troops during World War II.

“This agreement, far from promoting peace and stability, represents a troubling resurgence of Japan’s hegemonic ambitions in the region, under the baton of U.S. imperialism,” Lila Pilipina and other activist groups said in a statement in July.

“It is deeply concerning that Japan seeks to expand its military presence without fully addressing and providing justice for its wartime atrocities, particularly the horrific system of comfort women that devastated countless lives across Asia,” the groups said.

Virtually all the western and Japanese media mischaracterize the disputes in the SCS. They aren't about "waterways" or "freedom of navigation." They are about the EEZs. Historically, the Philippines had no claims whatsoever to the SCS shoals or island territory that it occupied from the 1970s onward. The UNCLOS decision that all the English language media cite is nonsense. The ex parte "arbitration" had no jurisdiction to decide sovereignty claims preexisting its adoption. All pre WWII western diplomatic records acknowledged the Philippines had no territorial claims to any territory, shoals and islets in the SCS that were not part of the colony ceded in 1898. Japan's LDP devised the strategy to shoe horn itself and the US into these issues.

Any adoption of a facilitation agreement with Japanese armed forces in South Korea could conceivably result in a rebellion. Yoon's unpopular unilateral concessions to Japan raised the issue of whether his pro-Japan clique is planning martial law. The cooperation of former collaborator elite classes with Japan and the US overrides any consideration of sovereign decision making. Taiwan may be regarded as reentering a satellite status with the US and Japan. Similarly for the Philippines. For historical reasons Korea is the least likely to accept being subordinated to Japan ever again. The Japanese Indo=Pacific policy is a salami slicing operation moving toward disaster in slow motion.

Japan does have 2 Izumo class aircraft carriers. It's in the process of converting them to F-35B operations. Admittedly they are smaller than the US Wasp and America class warships, but they are aircraft carriers nevertheless even though the effort was made to classify them as something else.

The Dutch brought large numbers of Han Chinese to Taiwan to use as plantation "workers" and subsequently lost control of Taiwan to China approximately 100 years before the US existed.

The Cairo Declaration

"The Three Great Allies are fighting this war to restrain and punish the aggression of Japan. They covet no gain for themselves and have no thought of territorial expansion. It is their purpose that Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of the first World War in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa, and The Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China...

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