Corporate Democratic Whores
Bernie was right to immediately disavow surrogate Dr. Paul Song's shocking use of the term corporate whore to describe certain well-connected Democrats. Bernie realized instantly that there are several problems with using the word whore....the most important being that whore often has a sexist connotation. Although it's almost certain that Dr, Song did not mean to suggest that Hillary Clinton, for example, has been turning tricks for money -- the inference could easily be made.
In these days of heightened sensitivity we must be careful of the words we use. This is why it is preferable to describe ethically challenged politicians not as whores but on the take or sellout....words which could not easily be construed as taking money for sexual favors.
In the same way it is preferable to use pragmatist or realist when describing a person without ethical boundaries. Pragmatist is a pleasant and somewhat erudite word. It rolls off the tongue and is so much nicer a term than words like unprincipled, narcissist, betrayer or sociopath.
Let us be careful then in selecting the words we use to describe certain politicians. Always remember that some of them, corrupt and venal as they may be..... are people too, my friends, and.....some of them are susceptible to hurt feelings.
Comments
Prostituted persons are often abused
Often groomed into prostitution as children, and/or trafficked from other countries. It is truly unconscionable to use "whore" pejoratively, as so many of these people, overwhelmingly women, are victims who would never have chosen such a brutal fate.
It is telling that "whore" is used so commonly to insult people, but so rarely "pimp."
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Going to have to respectfully disagree...
Trafficked persons are far more often pressed into Labor by large Corporations, who hide their misdeeds through a network of "Contractors" and "Temp Services". It's where our crops come from and where our cheap clothes come from.
The reason Prostitution is so often portrayed negatively is very similar to the reasons that Drug Use is so negatively portrayed. It has to do more with the illegality and inability of the people involved to go to the authorities for help without being themselves being charged with a crime.
If we're serious about helping the people who truly want out of an abusive cycle, we need to eliminate the stigma on sex workers, go after the people who abuse them (Which is much more a Abuse/Violence crime than a sex crime) and make it so a person can afford to do something else when they fall into desperation besides sex work.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Legalization expands prostitution
And it still acts as a cover for illegal trafficking. As long as what the clients want is girls, the younger the better, there is going to be a problem.
It is true that stigma is a problem in that prostituted persons don't want to go to the law because they'd like to think they could get out and not have to drag their past behind them. But it's hard enough to get a rape conviction even if you aren't prostituted. The client will just argue that he got what he paid for, no matter how brutal. It's his word against hers.
It all comes down to demand.
I agree very much with your last point. When you limit people's options sufficiently, it's much easier to get them to do what you want, whether it's be fucked by fifty men a day or work for seventy cents an hour making brand name athletic gear.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
One of the best
And most damning points about prostitution I have ever heard made, is how can you call this any sort of legitimate employment, when the more experience you have, the less you are valued?
Works right handily for sweatshop workers, too.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Actors... Soldiers... and Laborers too...
Any job where you primarily use your body seems to have that one going on. (Unless of course, you're talking about the higher ranks of the military, but even there, less physical work is done at that point.)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
There is a world of difference
Between using your body, and someone else using it.
I suggest reading "Paid For," by Rachel Moran. I mentioned to her once that she wrote with remarkable objectivity. She replied that if she'd allowed any emotion into the book at all, there would have been no end to it, she would have fallen apart.
Or you could read exited prostitute Rebecc Mott's blog about being prostituted, which is quite hair-raising. Or about the flat rate megabrothels, which is the sort of thing pimps get up to under full decrim. I read an article about one of those once, where they had an opening day special, and the men lined up outside while the women looked out the windows and cried at the sight of all the men they had to let use them that day.
There are myths about prostitution, and one is that it's a service industry. That implies that the men paying for it want to be serviced, are willing to let the woman be in control. But that's not at all reliably the case. When people compare it to burger flipping, I like to point out that this would only make sense if the burger customers periodically jumped the counter and shoved your spatula up your ass, as contract violations are common in prostitution, and legalization doesn't stop this.
I don't think prostituted persons should be criminalized, but any solution for the ills of prostitution that turns it into a growth industry is not much of a solution. Really, look up "German megabrothel." Or read about why France decided to go the route they did. They were looking at Germany, I expect.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
I agree that capitalism ruins many things...
IMHO the main reason that prostitution is illegal is that historically it's removed women from the control of men/capitalism. The constant legislation and obsession with how women conduct themselves is ancient. (Hammurabi talked about the regulation of "Women Wine Sellers" but we all know who he was talking about.)
And while you are correct that it's different than burger flipping, at least in burger flipping if somebody tries some shit like that, they already KNOW it's against the contract, they know they are breaking the rules, and they know the worker has the right to go to the cops and get recompense. With prostitution, clients get away with crap because "What's she gonna do? Go to the cops?"
So yeah, I hear you. I don't want to see a "Growth Industry" either, but I do want to see a serious sea change in the way we view other people. Primary among those is getting rid of this capitalist obsession with getting whatever you can, and screwing over anybody who can't stop you.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
That's the position of the DOJ...
at least as far as "Demand" theory goes.
You do make some good points, but the numbers don't match up. While there IS a large number of people trafficked for labor, the number of trafficked underage women is far smaller, and easier to prevent, IMHO, if we were to concentrate on the actual crime of trafficking.
Far too often, police forces use "Trafficking" as a way to remind the populace of the power of the police. Instead of going after a corporation who make up the vast majority of trafficking beneficiaries, they publicly shame individual men for going to a woman who did everything she could to appear NOT trafficked. It does nothing to reduce the demand, just makes the clients more paranoid.
Just to be crystal, yes, I'm against trafficking. I just think that the crime is better served by less laws legislating morality, and more enforcement of those doing the actual victimization.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Well, we are talking about different
Though related things. Sex trade trafficking is not a minor deal, though. Here is a piece on such in the USA. There are others that can easily be found via searching.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/09/16/3567922/child-sex-trafficking...
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Thanks for the links... one of the major problems...
I do find among prostitute-shaming groups is the reliance on shock statistics. I tried to track back the numbers, and I keep coming back to estimate by advocacy groups. I'm not trying to say they're wrong, but the best numbers I can find from the DOJ are much lower than the estimates.
What bothers me is that even those estimate leave out the huge numbers of folks who work in other industries. Yes it's horrible, but the problem is that labor violations aren't even investigated most of the time, because of the priorities.
Trafficking is INSTANTLY brought up, every time you mention prostitution, and yet, the lack of social support for families and women and children is ignored in favor of "Getting tough on Welfare Moms". IMHO, our long-term social issues help lead to a desperate people, and trafficking gins up the outrage meter and helps fund the cops who won't spend the money to help the problem they talk about because then they'd have to go after BIG groups.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
That was extremely tone deaf
That was extremely tone deaf, especially coming after all the "Bernie Bro" smears. The Hillary campaign is always looking for a way to play the victim, so why give them another opportunity?
Here's the offending quote from Dr. Paul Song (emphasis added):
Hillary surrogate Sen. Claire McCaskill was all over it on "Morning Joe" this morning.
Here is the serious issue that Bernie and his supporters want to address (from the Department of Duh):
Money influences everybody. That includes Hillary Clinton
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
That was a really stupid word choice
I realize most of us understand what is meant by corporate whores, but there are better and less pejorative words to use to convey the same meaning without giving so much ammunition for counter attack. Ugh...
HRC is no fool
And she is well aware that she has the backing of a lot of women, including some pretty serious feminists, some of whom are in their own particular way biological essentialists, who believe that putting women into power, any women, will somehow solve all the world's problems.
Sanders could do well to brush up on his feminist theory, as these women are watching him *very* closely and are quite vocal about what they see.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
I've seen Corporate Democratic Whore
used before, I believe it was Matt Taibbi in the article I read that made me see what ACA really is - merely allowing for profit medical to continue and this time, Joe Taxpayer is subsidizing their profits. It was said about Max Bacchus I believe, another fine Democrat who helped Obama cave on that public option. A guy who's been supported by big insurance to stay his ass in office.
Yeah, it was tone deaf but Sanders himself didn't say it either. As for Hillary and her reaction, well duh she's going to use whatever she can to paint any opposition to her as merely sexist. And that's BS. If the shoe were on the other foot, from what we've seen of her campaigning ability, she'd not only have said some such, but would then merely double down on it in some slimy way when asked to "defend" her remarks.
The hypocrisy of that just never ceases to amaze me. It's about like Mr Obama saying that ANY opposition to his fast tracking the TPP is merely racist. Sure, racism and sexism are real, sure both have been used against both of our ConservaDems. But for either of these two to USE that in such a blatant manner, when the thing they're trying so hard to defend is another shit sandwich for the rest of America? Fuck both of them for that. Whore may be a bad word, but sometimes it fits.
Sorry to rant but this just really pisses me off. I feel like I'm being pandered to because of my own gender. Not from you or this string, but the whole thing being blown to hell in the media. It makes a mockery of real sexual harassment and yes, a mockery of those who have no choice but to really prostitute themselves merely to survive.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
TRAITOR would be a better term!
Actually, traitor is more accurate. As MrJayTee said, calling these sellout pols whores is an insult to honest sex workers. Or, as you yourself put it so well:
Great rant there, lizzyh7!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The irony's probably not lost on ANYone.
Especially since Clinton's been so aggressive in pushing the very boundaries of even the Citizens United decision. I can get where people come from when they say "We can't afford to unilaterally disarm!", even though I disagree (Sanders' success in grassroots fundraising is instructive), but what the Clinton campaign's doing goes far, far beyond that. Co-ordinating directly with a super-PAC, then using the fig-leaf of "They're not running ads, so it doesn't count!" is farcical.
Self-exiled from DKos, ahead of the arrival of the Clinton Thought Police.
Markos' transition from gatecrasher to gate-polisher is now complete.
I don't care.
The reason I don't care is no matter what Bernie or his surrogates say, their opponents will try and make something sexist, racist or offensive in some way.
The representatives we now have in Congress are indeed corporate whores by any definition. Calling them names is nothing compared to the damage they have done to working people and the poor.
I was also very taken when one of the union reps basically came out and said "Fuck Verizon!" during his speech. I just yelled when I heard that. It was refreshing.
Establishment politicians and people in power can use whatever language they like to rip all of us off and make our lives not worth living, and they will. It doesn't matter which words we use; they will twist them and try to make diversions over what the real problems are in this country.
Fuck 'em.
Beat in the USA.
I'm in agreement with you Npk.
Double standard, as usual. Fuck 'em.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Don't think the word whore is sexist
I'd call Joe Lieberman a whore - sells himself out for the Insurance industry. Held up legislation he knew most Democrats wanted. Don't know about Max Baucus, detested how he dealt with ACA, not sure who is was selling out to.
Whore= selling yourself. So, yes, I'm sure a candidate running for POTUS would qualify for that name.
Is someone considers the word "whore" sexist, then I'd have to be told what word to use if I was referring to a man. But, the word works for me for all sexes. Even "they."
I agree too BUT...
I dont think we can really afford any voluntary unforced errors at this stage of the game. It was stupid of Dr Song to choose that particular phrase, worsened by the adjective "Democratic" {GASP}, but does anyone really think that some higher up staffer on Team Bernie pre-screens and vets every word of every surrogate's speeches? I dunno, maybe he was a saboteur, LOL. (To be clear, I dont actually think that!)
On the flip side, well it's true no matter how verboten it is to say it out loud. And look how much uptick of support Trump gets for being bold enough to "tell it like it is" every time he says something equally "offensive" but true (it happens) ha!
btw its trending now on twitter (or still I guess)
#FauxOutrage
.
http://usuncut.com/politics/prominent-hillary-supporter-deletes-tweet/
I understand that reasoning.
But I honestly don't care. It's the truth - our so-called elected Democratic representatives, too many of them, are indeed corporate whores in the full definition of that word. I'm not in the mood for the Establishment, which has caused so much pain and suffering, to go on and on about word usage by those who are opposed to their corruption. Again, there is no way either Bernie or his surrogates will avoid being criticized for "language," no matter how careful they are.
Beat in the USA.
It's not a matter of whether you care
It's a matter of whether people, especially registered Democrat women on the east coast at the moment, who aren't committed about the primary, care. When you say you don't care, and other Sanders supporters agree, you are all preaching to the choir.
Hell, I don't like HRC at all, and I care.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
I would really hate to think
that more than the smallest handful of registered Democratic women (of whom I am one, but probably not for much longer) will honestly take personally the term "corporate whore." I have never thought of the word "whore" in connection with myself. Why would I? Certainly I do not identify with "corporate whore." Now, Hillary Clinton should take the term personally, because it fits. She is a corporate whore, and with the exception of Jeff Merkley and Elizabeth Warren and a very few more elected Democrats, the rest of the party is too. This reminds me of the hoorah when Trump made a crack about Carly Fiorina's face. That was not sexist. I laughed out loud because the woman has a horrible face. I also laugh when people joke about Ted Cruz's face. That's not sexist either. I'm tired of the whole damn world being called "sexist" in order to protect Hillary Clinton from necessary political attacks.
Twain Disciple
sexist?
This.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I still don't care.
And I didn't care way before Bernie even came on the scene. Calling someone a corporate whore is not demeaning to anyone except corporate whores. Both men and women prostitute themselves, but the term "corporate whore" doesn't refer to sex workers.
The political operatives who are trying to make this a big deal aren't committed feminists; they are political operatives who would find something to smear Bernie with no matter what he said.
I'm not buying it. And I don't believe registered Democrative women are going to care unless they are already Hillary supporters, in which case they're going to call Bernie sexist no matter what he does or says.
Beat in the USA.
Unlike "colored people time #CPtime
Shh, shh, shh - ha, ha - lets move on to corporate whore. If the shoe fits.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
If she or the moderator bring up corporate whore,
I'd bring up "colored people time". Both are a lot of hooey about nothing. This middle school campaign tactic is the worst.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I'm with you
"The reason I don't care is no matter what Bernie or his surrogates say, their opponents will try and make something sexist, racist or offensive in some way."
It is amazing how Hillary's advocates celebrate her indomitable will and toughness and yet these same Hillary fans don't display any of her formidable toughness themselves. They are crybabies and professional umbrage takers who come unglued when their hero is criticized. And she, herself, will play the long-suffering and once-again injured party with customary relish. To hell with the whole bunch of 'em, if they can't take it. Screw the corporate whores and their defenders.
professional umbrage takers
We keep telling you: Stay the fuck out of TOP!!
/snarque
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
"Indomitable will" and "toughness"? Well, she's cruel enough
to pass for someone who's tough, but I remind you the witch cried after she lost Iowa to Obama in 2008. She'll weep great salt tears again if she loses to Bernie. She has great compassion for herself. She's only "tough" when, for example, she's shipping desperate children back to Honduras to "send a message." Yep, that's some indomitable will right there.
Twain Disciple
Speaking as a former whore
Though a very privileged one, the term by itself doesn't bother me. It's the sentiment behind its use that bothers me, an insult to sex workers.
Beyond that, Song's use of the term was politically stupid, though I don't consider it unfair to Clinton or the class she represents.
As to the profession, of course we need to devote all necessary resources to prevent human trafficking, including forcing anyone to sell sex for money, but outside of that, there is no way to give someone agency over their own body in some areas (recreational drugs, abortion) and take it away in others (prostitution). Either you own your body or you don't.
The notion that I was trafficked or forced into sex is absurd. I did it quite consciously and cleaned up. I've had no contact with the industry since then, but I doubt the particulars have changed.
And yes, I understand that does not apply to all sex workers. Forced sex work needs to be stopped, but a private, consensual arrangement among adults is no one's business but theirs.
I own my body where sex is concerned. I own my body where drugs are concerned. Women own their own bodies where abortion is concerned.
There is no negotiating that.
“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”
Generally people are not paid
To use recreational drugs or have abortions.
The idea behind decriminalizing prostituted persons but not pimps or clients is that it gives the prostituted persons more leverage. However, the whole model (this is the Nordic model) falls apart without a robust safety net, and this gets into what is wrong with capitalism.
If we lived in a culture where everyone had a guaranteed income, this would help a lot to address the problem. But unfortunately prostituted persons often start out as victims of child sexual abuse, or are trafficked, or are runaways "befriended" by pimps. It's connected to societal ills in different ways. How many of these runaways were gender defiant children, thrown out for not being heterosexual, or for their presentations? How much can you damage a kid and expect the child to grow up into a healthy adult who can survive in the world without suffering more damage?
So it's definitely about money, but it's not *just* about money.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Either you own your body or you don't.
There is no way to finesse that.
As to who gets paid for what, your logic is tuned around. Of course you don't get paid to use drugs or have an abortion, you pay to obtain them, as with prostitution, where people pay for sex...none of which has any bearing on the issue of whether you are sovereign over your body, which is the issue for me.
I'm all for guaranteeing income and abolishing capitalism, but I'm also all for other people staying off/out of/away from my body.
“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”
Well said.
VERY well said.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Yeah, of course one might note
that another term for "whore" is "lady of negotiable virtue". That seems to fit Hillary to a T.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Hillary a "Lady"? I must quibble.
Twain Disciple
Terry Pratchett Lives
SnappleBC, does that make Debbie Wasserman Schultz one of the Agony Aunts? It has a certain reality to it.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
Person of negotiable virtue
is just about right, and it is an earned insult to 90% of the political field today. I'm a 63 year old woman, but Hillary's camp never fails to position me as a "Bernie Bro", which is not meant kindly. So screw Hils and the other Dems who never met a dollar they didn't give it up for.
No kidding!
I'm 62 and Gloria Steinem was an idol of mine for years. Man, am I over her.
Twain Disciple
Hillary Clinton:
Easier to buy than she is to sell. My take on the "whore" controversy is this: a professional prostitute is selling what he/she owns and has a right to sell. That doesn't bother me (I'm excluding sex slaves here, obviously). In contrast, a political prostitute -- or "whore"-- is selling what he/she does NOT own or have a right to sell: our country, our Democracy, our values and our beliefs. Political whores, which apparently includes the entire sold-out Democratic Party, with very few exceptions, are beneath contempt. I have no problem with the use of the word "whores" in the context of these jackasses, but could have predicted those Rovian cretins in the Clinton campaign, who have no principles but who stay up at night parsing language trying to ferret out some semblance of an insult to some interest group, would howl with feigned outrage over it. I feel sorry for the guy who said it. I know exactly what he meant, and so does everybody else, and he was right.
Twain Disciple
My take on the whore controversy is simple
It's just another manufactured controversy. It's a relatively standard (if somewhat crude) figure of speech. It's also a term which fits someone who sells their loyalty to the highest bidder while lying to their constituents.
Honestly, if politicians want to stop being called corporate whores then they should stop acting like it.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I think there's nothing wrong with prostitution so long as it's a chosen career and not forced on someone (by physical threat or economic threat) and I think it ought to be legalized and sex workers should have legal protection. I know one woman who was a sex worker by her choice and enjoyed it for the time she did it. She is definitely not the meek kind nor is she the type to lie so I take her at her word. I think she was young, pretty, and sex positive and it made her some good cash.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
whores
In truth to call Hillary and her ilk corporate whores is a compliment compared to what they really are. Selling sex for money is at least an honest transaction. In the case of political whores it's the selling of other people's lives -- their jobs, their financial security, their educational aspirations, their future -- selling them for personal advancement; selling them at a discount and without conscience. In truth, the sex workers (male and female) who get paid for sex could be nominated for sainthood in comparison with self-serving political fakers who are on a relentless quest for personal power and money and who can barely hide the contempt they have for their constituents.
Why associate the word with women only
Why are women owning the word? By objecting to it on the basis of sexism they are saying it applies only to women but it does not.
Merriam Webster definition:
I don't need an official definition, when I hear the word in a political context, I automatically think of "someone who will do anything, right or wrong, for money."
To thine own self be true.