Open Thread - Thurs 30 Nov 2023 - Ludus Latrunculorum

Ludus Latrunculorum

Hope everyone had a great holiday! I have not been in the mood to do much news/media reading in the last week so... how's about we learn about a game? One that proceeded, and perhaps in part gave birth, to chess?

Ludus latrunculorum was a very, very popular game amongst soldiers, and probably everyone else of the 'lower' classes, during the late Roman Republic and the Roman Empire. There is archaeological evidence for the game (here's a fairly recent find of a game board), consisting of the game boards and the pieces. There is a written evidence of the game, basically mentioning it being played by soldiers and others. But sadly, no writer discussed the rules of the game or how it was played in any detail.


A Ludus Latrunculum game board found after it was reused as flooring at the Roman fort of Vindolanda in Northern England from Archaeology.org

The name means 'game of thieves' or 'game of brigands' or 'game of soldiers'. There were two players for each game, and the board looked similar to what we would call a chess board, or a draughts (checkers) board (see the image above of the game board found at Vindolanda for example). It was a strategy game. Each player would try to surround the game pieces of the opposing player and capture them. It is not known for sure if there was a more flexible and valuable leader piece, a duke or general. The game might have been played without the leader piece as well. Perhaps both things were true. It's not known how the pieces were moved and what constituted a capture, but people have made reconstructions with various rules - see for example here and here, and they play those games even now!

Here's a video about playing the game:

So, Enjoy playing whatever games you like, and thanks for reading. Here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

Share
up
9 users have voted.

Comments

Sima's picture

Hope the day has gone and is going well for everyone! It's been cold here, but we should finally be getting some rain. Yes, Yes, PacNW, rain. But we are in a drought, like much of the rest of the country. So rain is ok!

When writing this post my hubby noted, 'This post resembles the writer, it's short!'. Smile Smile So, it is kinda short, and yea, I am kinda short to someone who's 6 ft 2in like hubby!

Post whatever you want in the comments. I love learning all the stuff and hearing all the news!

up
11 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

ggersh's picture

I'm sorry for posting this but someone had to. How the Zionists
can do this and the fascists in DC help them in this is beyond
my comprehension

up
11 users have voted.

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

snoopydawg's picture

@ggersh

First there was the people who monitor the border telling their superiors that Hamas was seen many times at the border doing nefarious things only to be told to shut up.

Then Israel moving lots of its troops out of the area and into the West Bank and not responding for hours.

The Israeli helicopters killing their own civilians and many, many cars were destroyed by bombs.

And why did Bibi finally get to see Biden just weeks before this happened? And why did he hold up a map that had no Palestine on it?

Then there’s the history of Bibi helping to fund Hamas for years and they live in luxury in Qatar and have visits with the CIA and Mossad. Qatar is in control of giving Hamas the money. Must have been a lot of money to get ready for the surprise attack don’t you think?

I will take off my tinfoil hat now.

up
8 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
Is completely warranted. I agree with all you've said here, so maybe we're both wearing tin foil?

up
7 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@ggersh
about why the Israelis went into Gaza but ... anyone with a brain can see that they want to exterminate the Palestinians. All of them. And take over the area they had up until the Romans started to kick them out 2000 years ago, with help from their own elites (like Josephus). So, bombing and killing children? It's in the plan. Women? In the plan. Civilian Men? In the plan. Destroy homes, hospitals, schools? In the plan. Netanyhoo-a&&hole has always said this, ALWAYS. It's in the plan. Many Israeli attitudes, especially in the government and military, come down to this. Palestinines are, to them, animals. Not human. Can destroy them with impunity. And yes, that's EXACTLY how the Nazis viewed the Jews (and the disabled, and oftentimes, the Russian peasants...).

up
9 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Lookout's picture

Ancient games are interesting. Many are still played. Two that come to mind are Go and Mancala

China's most famous board game is Go, which is now played around the world. It's thought to have been developed in China between 2,500 and 4,000 years ago, and may be one of the oldest games still played in its original form.

One story says the game was invented by the legendary Emperor Yao, said to rule from 2356 to 2255 B.C., to teach discipline to his son; another theory suggests that the game developed from a type of magical divination, with the black and white pieces representing the spiritual concepts of Yin and Yang.

Go was introduced to Japan in the eighth century A.D. and became the favorite game of aristocrats, who sponsored top players against other noble clans. Professional Go players in Japan today compete in tournaments for prizes worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

In July 2018, archaeologists announced they had found a "games room" in their excavations of a Roman-era pottery workshop from the second century A.D. near the town of Gedera in central Israel.

Among the finds were several boards for the ancient game of mancala, consisting of rows of pits carved into stone benches, and a larger mancala game board carved into a separate stone.

The room seems to have served as a relaxation center for the pottery workers — a "spa" of 20 baths and a set of glass cups and bowls for drinking and eating were also found at the site.

Mancala is still a popular game today, especially in parts of Africa and Asia. It's played by moving counters, marbles or seeds among the pits of the game board, capturing an opponent's pieces, and moving pieces off the board to win the game.

Many I never hear of are in this Smithsonian article. It includes Ludus Latrunculorum.

The toast of the Roman Empire, Ludus Latrunculorum or Latrunculi was a two-player strategy game designed to test participants’ military prowess. Played on grids of varying sizes—the largest known example measures 17-by-18 squares—the so-called “Game of Mercenaries” was likely a variant of the ancient Greek game Petteia. (Aristotle sheds some light on Petteia’s rules, likening a “man without a city-state” to an “isolated piece in Petteia” left vulnerable to capture by an opponent.)

The first documented mention of Ludus Latrunculorum dates to the first century B.C., when Roman writer Varro described its colored glass or precious stone playing pieces. Two hundred or so years later, the anonymously authored Laus Pisonis painted a vivid picture of gameplay, explaining, “[T]he enemy ranks are split, and you victoriously emerge with ranks unbroken, or with the loss of one or two men, and both your hands rattle with the horde of captives.” The poets Ovid and Martial also referenced the game in their works.

Despite its recurrence in both written and archaeological evidence, Ludus Latrunculorum’s exact rules remain unclear. Various scholars have proposed potential reconstructions of the game over the past 130 years, according to Ancient Games. Perhaps the most comprehensive of these is Ulrich Schädler’s 1994 essay, translated into English in 2001, which suggests players moved pieces forward, backward and sideways in hopes of surrounding an isolated enemy piece with two of their own. Captured tokens were then removed from the board, leaving victorious players’ hands “rattl[ing] with the crowd of pieces,” as Laus Pisonis put it.

Thanks for the introduction. It was new to me.

We're due a rain tonight and through the weekend and it is much needed. Today's new map has taken us out of the exceptional drought category.
Screenshot 2023-11-30 at 09-01-31 Alabama U.S. Drought Monitor.png

up
10 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

soryang's picture

@Lookout I followed some of computer v. human players Go (baduk) competitions when they were in the news. Wikipedia has a fair summary of the developments.

In October 2015, Google DeepMind's program AlphaGo beat Fan Hui, the European Go champion and a 2 dan (out of 9 dan possible) professional, five times out of five with no handicap on a full size 19×19 board.[135] AlphaGo used a fundamentally different paradigm than earlier Go programs; it included very little direct instruction, and mostly used deep learning where AlphaGo played itself in hundreds of millions of games such that it could measure positions more intuitively. In March 2016, Google next challenged Lee Sedol, a 9 dan considered the top player in the world in the early 21st century,[149] to a five-game match. Leading up to the game, Lee Sedol and other top professionals were confident that he would win;[150] however, AlphaGo defeated Lee in four of the five games.[151][152] After having already lost the series by the third game, Lee won the fourth game, describing his win as "invaluable".[153] In May 2017, AlphaGo beat Ke Jie, who at the time continuously held the world No. 1 ranking for two years,[154][155] winning each game in a three-game match during the Future of Go Summit.[156][157] In October 2017, DeepMind announced a significantly stronger version called AlphaGo Zero which beat the previous version by 100 games to 0.[158]

In February 2023, Kellin Pelrine, an amateur American Go player, won 14 out of 15 games against a top-ranked AI system in a significant victory over artificial intelligence. Pelrine took advantage of a previously unknown flaw in the Go computer program, which had been identified by another computer. He exploited this weakness by slowly encircling the opponent's stones and distracting the AI with moves in other parts of the board. The tactics used by Pelrine have highlighted a fundamental flaw in the deep learning systems that underpin many of today's advanced AI. Although the AI systems can "understand" specific situations, they lack the ability to generalize in a way that humans find easy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)#Computers_and_Go

I wasn't aware of the Kellin Pelrine story. Although I "intuited" that this flaw existed. But after the one champion was shut out in 2017 I lost interest.

up
9 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直

Sima's picture

@soryang
This was something I knew nothing about. Hopefully AI is not allowed in actual championships! Yeesh.

Kellin Pelrine... never heard of them before. I'm glad I did now, it's heartening to know that humans can still beat AI, for now.

up
6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@Lookout
Thanks! I am reading the websites and thinking about making a board for ludus latrunculorum, or maybe finding a way to play it online :). Might try Go too.

We are not in exceptional drought, yet. But, it is not as wet as 'normal', whatever that is/was. No water in the ditches, the streams are dry, the winter lake has not yet appeared. Rain is good, sometimes! I hope you get enough over time to take you out of any drought at all, but not flood! Smile

up
3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

warranted, the guy would be Henry Kissinger.
I ran across such a speaking ill of the dead remark: "Henry, enjoy your new 'tropical' location."

up
12 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
to speak ill of the dead, upon hearing of his passing. I muttered, 'About damn time!' and said a few other choice things. Great quote about his new 'tropical' vacation.

up
6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

but stadiums in Guatemala where a type of soccer games were held for the rulers, with the winning team being honored by being drugged out of their minds, then having their hearts cut out by the king atop a pyramid. Afterwards, their bodies were rolled down the side of the pyramid, apparently to great cheering by the crowd.
I guess this is what is meant by playing your hearts out.

up
9 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
I mean, if it were me playing, I'd do everything I could do lose. But, it ain't my religion so maybe it's different if one believes they will be a god after the king murders them.

up
5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima they just helped bring rain for the Three Sisters: corn, beans, and squash.
There parents were proud, I guess.

up
5 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

I assume that there is enough historical information to support the determination that the game tokens sit in the cells, like checkers, and not on the intersections, like go. I watched the video with the sound off, a practice I sometimes engage in. This one had one looong intro where nothing changed visually, a class or category of such vids that I find a bit strange, but whatever.

I noticed a game token slightly different from the others and placed "in front" of them. This is how we can gauge the game's antiquity. Presumably that piece is the "leader", out busy leading the troops. Today's leaders are not out front of the troops, and, in fact, aren't generally even out among the troops. Today that token would be completely off the board somewhere drinking cognac and eating caviar.

be well and have a good one

up
7 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
about where the pieces sit, basically in the form of paintings, wall illustrations and such. The leader is out in front, exactly! Some versions of the game appeared to have no leader. And the board size varies, but the squares in a line are always uneven in number.

Love the comment about how today's leader tokens would be off the board drinking cognac and eating caviar!

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

1) Did Publius Quinctilius Varus ever play said game?

2) Did he ever win?

be well and have a good one

up
6 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
'cause he wasn't a 'common' soldier. Smile Smile

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

"only in the capitalist realm" would something like this materialize ..

79c341970d01f433a25b24441c80ba7c_large-3831413311.jpg

Perhaps this was the educational tool the fat cats used for their chilluns'

thanks for the OT!

up
8 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

TheOtherMaven's picture

@QMS

But of course it was completely misinterpreted and popularized in the exact opposite way.

up
7 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Sima's picture

@TheOtherMaven
That's what happened to me! Played it a lot, learned the 'rules' of capitalism and hated them. Heh.

up
5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@QMS
And I always, always won. Always. Hoard the money, then buy everything you can. Like all the billionaires today! Really dislike the game now Smile

up
5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

up
8 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

"Tell me again how an industry that makes its money off of sick people is going to give you a 'free shot' to make you super healthy."

up
9 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
Is give you a shot that'll keep you just sick enough to keep needing shots...

up
6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

@humphrey

this ain't no damn game
but it is a damn shame
they get away with it

think Fauci has a stake in this?

Fauci’s net worth doubled during COVID-19 pandemic

Following a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed in 2021, OpenTheBooks received a copy of all royalties paid. However, the 3,000-page NIH document was reportedly largely redacted.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/faucis-net-worth-doubled-during-...

up
8 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Sima's picture

@QMS

up
6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

who also wrote "Fairytale of New York" died. He was born December 25th, and to celebrate that, I included Fairytale of New York in my 12/25 OT which I loaded up just the other day, and now he's gone. He also used to sing with the Dubliners now and then

be well and have a good one

up
8 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris . And yes, 'Fairytale of New York' is a very good song, I'll listen now and again on the 25th.

up
7 users have voted.
Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
after being out all day. I'm crushed. Maybe that's not a strong enough word... a part of me has died too. I love the Pogues. Love their punk celtic sound.

up
6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

up
5 users have voted.

I've been reading much but the news these past several weeks. I can't seem to get in to anything else. I did though, listen to a conversation between C. West and G. Maté that was, I thought, really good. They conveyed a trace of hope that humanity is not entirely contemptible. It was (for me) a very welcome conversation in the midst of this terrible time.

up
8 users have voted.
Sima's picture

@randtntx
I'm glad to know it is good and worth watching. Thanks!

I forced myself to start reading a book about the domestication of dogs and how they fit into human societies ancient and current. That has gotten my mind off the news, at least for short periods of time. Other than that, it seems like all my current books to read are about politics! Or the Roman Army, heh Smile

up
6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima , that you will enjoy that conversation. In my opinion Cornel West always has something interesting to say and I appreciate Maté's insights about human behavior. I finished Maté's book The Myth of Normal last month. I actually listened to the audio book while I was on an interminably long road trip and unfortunately much of it went in one ear and out the other. I want to get the hard copy and go over the bits that didn't register in my brain.

Your tactic of choosing less disturbing reading material is a good one. I would probably enjoy the book about dogs. Not sure about the Roman Army one though, maybe if it has pictures and
maps? Smile

up
4 users have voted.
Sima's picture

@randtntx
called In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction a while back. I learned a LOT. I really, really like what he and other doctors did for those who are severely addicted and cannot be changed or change. So, I'm gonna haveta look for this new book that you listened to :).

I am going to do a post about the dog book, once I finish it. I think the book will be accessible to everyone as a pdf soon. It's good, but very scholastic. I read about the Roman army to keep myself up to date on whats happening in the archaeology and history of the era. Maybe, someday, I'll go back to working on such myself, maybe. I guess I can hope! A lot of it is pretty boring, but if you wanna read about it, I can suggest some good books with lots of maps and pictures Smile

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima , I'm making fun of myself because It's pretty unlikely, at this stage of the game, that I would crack a book open about Roman archaeology. I do appreciate you sharing your expertise and enthusiasm for the subject though, because as you say, everything is interesting (even if you just stick your toe in the water and don't dive too deep).

So you can be the instigator with regards to this subject and I will happily go along for the ride. Besides it's very fun to learn something new, something you never really considered, and then find that it connects very neatly to something you do know about.

One of my reference points, or window into the history of the Roman incursion into the "flyover country" or "provinces" is the opera Norma. I know that's ridiculous but unfortunately true. The opera features the local Druid priestess who falls in love and marries the Roman head honcho in her area.
It is one of my favorite operas even though the Roman story line was initially very off-putting to me.
Over time I changed my mind about it and now Norma is one of my favorite opera characters. Anyway, who knew archaeology and opera can inspire one another?

The book you mention by Maté sounds good as well. I intend to check out some of his books as I move through my to-read-list. He's a good one.

up
3 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Sima

Dawgs are such an important part of our lives that I can’t imagine not having one. We didn’t have any pets until I was in 10th grade because everyone was allergic to them. I only had to look at a cat when I was young and my eyes would swell closed. I’m still allergic to cats but I can get used to them after a few weeks. When I had my jaw reconstruction I had 2 cats and after being away from them for a few days they had to spend the next 2 months in the basement because if I sneezed I would have blown my face apart. Not kidding. I got my first dawg when I was 23 and I haven’t been without one since except for the 2 months after Charlie died and I was waiting for Sam….

What I’m fascinated about dawgs is how they become attached to us. I thought about that last year when 5 dawgs would meet at the park and play, but when we split up every dawg went with their human. And during the play they would keep an eye on their human to make sure they were still there.

up
6 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
Got my first dog when I was a kid. He followed me and my brother home from the park. He'd been abandoned. He was GREAT. My Mom didn't want us to have dogs, but my father insisted. Except for when I was in college, I've had a dog as a companion for my whole life. Three dogs. 45 years. Nuts.

I have always had cats too. I think I'm slightly allergic but, I've had cats for so long it's hard to tell. When I go away for a week or more for whatever reason, I have the 'sneezes' when I come back. But not like you've had. That sucks, sneezing so hard you'd blow your face apart.

I'm fascinated by how dogs become attached to us too. How they know so much about what we are thinking, feeling, doing. And they do know tons about it. It's hard, at times, for us humans to interpret. But, today, I was going with hubby to the store. I carried my 'purse' (it's a backpack) out to the truck and put it inside. Then I let Jaska outside to go to the bathroom. She had seen me bring the purse downstairs, she KNEW I was going somewhere but didn't see me put the purse into the truck. She sniffed out the purse in the truck, even with the door closed, and then sat in front of the truck door and asked to go with us. When I told her she couldn't (she can't leap high enough to get into the truck seat anymore), she got a sad face and slowly went back inside. How does she know all that? How do I?

I'm going to write a post about the book, maybe several posts, once I finish it. It's fascinating! I hope I can give a link to a pdf of it too, we'll see how it goes Smile

up
5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

snoopydawg's picture

@Sima

I bring out the ramp my dad built. About a foot wide and 5 feet long and covered in heavy grade carpet. Up they go.
He also built stairs for the bed with the same carpet. Don’t know why he built them so wide, but 5 dawgs have used them and the board. Hubby a builder?

up
5 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

@snoopydawg . We are going to have to do this for our big dog. He still jumps out and into the truck easily but it is pretty high and I think it is hard on his joints and possibly his back to do that. Our little one could use one to get in and out of the bed (he sleeps with humans) because he has short legs and a long body...hence back troubles in the future.

up
5 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@randtntx

once they start having difficulty with their joints. Anything to make them more comfortable as they age. Both Bailey and Abby got crippling arthritis, but Abby responded well to glucosamine with MSN which I got at Walmart. Now that Sam is 3 I’m going to start her on a low dose of it and hopefully she won’t get it. I wanted her to be taller and skinnier, but she is short legged and more heavy than I want. It’s not like she’s a couch potato tho. She gets to run around for an hour almost every day. Including today even though it’s snowing. She tells me that I have a coat and gloves.

Lots of pet supplies sell stairs and ramps, but neither have carpet on them and they look unstable to me. None of my dawgs could have jumped on the bed because it’s so high and I couldn’t lift them. One of the few things I’m grateful for my dad for building these for my dawgs. I think they are 20 years old if not more.

up
6 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

@snoopydawg , of starting a low dose of glucosamine. Is it in the pet section or do you get the human variety? Hats off to your dad for building those, that was nice.

up
4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@randtntx

I will check to make sure. I gave it to Abby with ice cream or peanut butter.

up
4 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

@snoopydawg !
I'll do some research on it as well.

up
3 users have voted.
QMS's picture

@randtntx

from Harbor Freight ??
they work great for rolling the generator
into / out of the truck, even used them
to roll one of my Insight Hondas onto a trailer.

Search: folding ramps 96513_W3.jpg

slip them together and even your grandma can get up there Wink

up
4 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

snoopydawg's picture

@QMS

Unless they are too heavy? But I like the slope of them. Maybe even Jaska could go up them?

up
3 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

QMS's picture

@snoopydawg

mine is a bi-fold, weighs maybe 10 pounds
but the tri-fold is longer, which gives a slighter
slope, so maybe 18 pounds?

up
3 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
I'm gonna look into those.

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@QMS , I can imagine quite a number of things we could use those for in my household not grandma though, she has her own little portable steps Smile

I like that they are lightweight and that they fold. No matter how light we think we are packing for road trips we are always just busting at the seams. We generally look like the Okies of the depression era, all we need is to hang pots and pans from the roof.
Thanks QMS!

up
3 users have voted.
Sima's picture

@randtntx
from Chewy.com online. It folds, so it fits in the trunk or behind the truck seat. Unfortunately, for the truck it's too steep for my dog to use. She's just too old. But it's GREAT for the car. And we make her wait, so she doesn't jump, and go down the ramp to get out of the car too. It's made a huge difference, and she waits for us to put the ramp up for her to get into the car.

up
4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima @Sima , for the ramp to get set up is going to be the trick for our big guy, he's always in a hurry to jump out of the truck. We'll have to work on that.

up
2 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Sima

The things we do for them. When Abby was having strength issues I would park the car next to a cement wall that was the same height as the back seat and the ramp would be level so she could just walk across to the grass. If that spot was taken I’d find another place so she could get in and out easily. Someone walked up to me one day and said that they loved how I took care of my dawgs. I even got the people at the cemetery to help me with Abby.

I think you’re right that training them young is a good idea. It did take some time and effort to get them to use the ramp. But not the stairs. Sam used them as so as she learned to go up and down. Some times I walk by the bedroom and she is sitting on the top one. I just laugh…

up
2 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
But going up in the truck, even with the ramp, is impossible. It is just too steep. I bought a ramp for our bed. Jaska will use it from time to time, but she loved the stairs we had. Unfortunately, she can't use those anymore. She falls off and hurts herself, so we had to remove them.

Your Dad was great! Building ramps and stairs is awesome. Never thought about doing it ourselves, now I am going to have to try! One thing we are going to do, when we get a new puppy/dog, is train it right away to use the ramps and stairs. That way, they don't have to learn as a middle aged, or old, dog. I think it will be easier.

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima , are right about dogs. A dog conversation highlighting a dog book sounds excellent.

up
4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Sima

When I go to Park City it’s my day to be alone with myself and I tell Sam that she is staying home and she seems to understand that and doesn’t get all excited like when she gets to come with me. Her ears go down, but she doesn’t sulk about it. And she still happily gets my shoes.

When I first asked her to get them out of the closet she jumped over her shoe that looked just like mine. I thought that was brilliant of her to understand the difference. And still every time I ask if she wants to get them she jumps straight up 3-4 times. Just a happy little dawg.

Yep life would be so boring without them.

up
3 users have voted.

“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
We humans would be so f*ed up without them.

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

vid from Scott Ritter, he lays it out.

And thanks for the OT! I read the one you wrote several weeks ago about Ritter's father-in-law. That was something. Thanks for that as well.

up
6 users have voted.
Sima's picture

@randtntx
It's a good video. I gotta agree with most of what he says. Thanks for posting the video here!

up
3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so