Open Thread - Thurs 05 Oct 2023 - Unexpected Sorrow
Unexpected Sorrow:
Two deaths last week really, really got to me. Earthling1's son died tragically and then there was this... The entity who died was famous, had lived a LONG time in service to a nation, was iconic for location and meaning and was even pictured in a famous movie (Robin Hood). I knew about this marvelous being from the time I was fairly small, part of my schooling and upbringing. And no, it wasn't a politician. Sorry, DiFi, even though I was raised in the Bay Area and am old enough to have watched you take over when Milk and Moscone were assassinated (I was just a kid, but whatever), you NEVER got my approval - not as mayor, or anything else. I could see through the schtick even then.
The tree in the Sycamore Gap: from https://www.pinterest.com/pin/260505159680195096/
No, this is a tree that died. It was murdered. It was the iconic Sycamore Gap tree in the National Park at Hadrian's Wall in England. Some 16 year old kid and a 60+ year old man (none of the news is saying anything about them yet), have been arrested, and bailed, for cutting it down. The outpouring of laments and sorrow in England was/is pretty amazing. There are at least 11, yes, 11, articles about the murder of this tree on the BBC website alone. There are several articles on the Guardian, including an homage in pictures (and more pictures from the BBC). It's in the local news in Northumberland, Newcastle, Scotland, etc. And its murder was in the news here too, for example, NPR, and in Russia! (or at least, RT). And I feel the same lament and sorrow felt in Britain, here. The tree was part of the 'wilds' of Northumberland, the area of Hadrian's Wall. It was the lone sentinel standing in the gap against the Scots (or the English, depends on which way you were facing). It was 200 to 300 years old... silent, strong, more than a symbol.
from https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-66957589
As an archaeologist studying the imperial Romans, their army, their frontiers including and especially Hadrian's Wall in England (and the Antonine Wall in Scotland), the tree was very important. It was somehow more than a symbol, something to look forward to seeing and visiting every time I walked along the wall, every time I rode by on the train or bus from one site to another. And now, it's gone. Learning about its murder made me cry, believe it or not. It was as if some icon of my past, of my present, had been callously destroyed. Its destruction put a hole in my heart, one I was not expecting to happen at all.
Why? Who knows. One possibility: perhaps the 16 year old kid cut it down because his grandpa (the 60+ year old man) was kicked out of the nearby farm/home that he (the grandpa) was born in and had lived in since then. Who kicked him out? The Jesuits. I dunno, it's just a possibility. The world is getting even more crazy than it was, isn't it?
So, thanks for reading about the life and the end of this beautiful tree and here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!
Comments
Happy Thursday!
I hope all is going well with everyone. I got the garlic planted, berries are getting weeded. The last of the peppers and tomatoes are flowering in the greenhouse. It's getting cold at night, but we haven't had a frost yet and normally we are well into night-frosts by this time of year. Everything is saying, 'Huh?'
Have a good Thursday and let us know what's going on!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning
Can relate to your mourning over a fallen tree. I had to cut down two over 100 year old
white pines in front of the house, as they were snapping branches and damaging the
roof during our frequent wind storms. It was very saddening. The termites had infested
the roots and trunk. I miss those trees. Such great shade in the afternoon. Add to that
the 3 old chestnuts which had died and had to be removed. It changed the appearance
of the property along the stone wall by the road. The maples grow great otoh.
Thanks for the OT!
Cutting down old trees sucks..
Have had to do it myself. I'm sorry the chestnuts passed away too. I think I'm going to have to cut down some alders soon, they are 50 years old. They are starting to get bugs and so on.
But, as you point out, the maples grow great!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning, Sima!
I am glad I saw that tree.
People the world over are spiteful, disrespectful, and the idea of punishment for their acting out is no deterrent. They act out anyway.
Innocent people who have never harmed those two tree cutters are harmed by them forever.
I hope the day turns toward some happiness for us all.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Some good things...
The tree will probably put up shoots and so on from its roots. So it will 'survive'. I don't know why people are so spiteful and so... undirected. If you are mad at the Jesuits, spray paint the nearest catholic church, or something. I dunno. Maybe that's not the entire story. But cutting down an innocent tree? It's like murdering a kid on the street because you are mad at the people who painted the lines on that street.
I hope your day was good. Me, I went to the licensing office to get car tabs, went to the expensive super market to get good stuff, and drove around with Jaska hanging out the car window and having a fabulous time. Yes, she's really old, but she still loves riding the wind. So, it was good
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning Sima, sorry to hear about both of your
losses. I read about the murder of the tree, but it did not have the same impact on me as it did on you because I had never seen it and its special history is remote from me. All the same, it is everybody's loss. I can't imagine what the perps thought they were doing but there is some consolation in the fact that they were just being humans, and not some logging company out for profit. For me, trees of special concern tend to be quercus lobata, sequoia sempervirens and sequoia gigantea, fwiw.
Thanks for the OT, not that there is anything on my mind today except the incipient heat wave, making some chocolate pudding and other chores and the fact that Renee's has shipped my garlic and shallots and we have barely dented the harvest from last year's and the fact that my preferred bed still has producing beans, spinach chard and, hopefully, portuguese kale.
It seems that our politicians are determined to draw attention to the upcoming farce at all costs, "Hey look at what we did today!" Riiiight, so what.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I can't figure out what the perps were thinking, either..
And why they took it out on an innocent tree. But, as you say, at least it wasn't a logging company or something stupid like that.
Sequoias. I LOVE them. My father, when he moved up here into the PacNW, brought a baby redwood from our old property in the Santa Clara mountains (which was covered with second growth Sequoias). And he planted it. It's like... 100 feet tall now.
Our beans gave up the ghost when we got some rain. That made them get covered with white mold (it happens this time of year) and that was it. So, I put goat poop and compost all over the bean bed and it's now the garlic bed! We've still got 'weeds' of kale and chard going. And we've got some broccoli that decided to just make heads after I'd cut the main plant back after harvest. So, we'll eat those too!
Upcoming farce... that's a good way to put it! Hope your day was good!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
#$&-#$&****#$&!!!
.
That’s all I’m going to say about the tree being cut down! Things like this affect me deeply and brings great sadness.
Hey has anyone heard of the great skiff between Max Bluementhal and Ben Norton? Wowzer Max let the dawgs out big time!
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
First I heard about
Norton's departure. I am sure it is true, wish it were not.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I hadn't heard about the fight..
between Max and Ben Norton before this. Wowsers is right! I never took to Norton but, maybe that's just me.
As for saying &&*^* about the tree murder. I completely agree!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
This latest event leaves me confused.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4240149-cornel-west-switches-from-...
The constant chaos in the campaigns of West, Williamson and Kennedy seem to be exactly what the DNC and Biden desire.
I do not see chaos in the Kennedy
campaign. In fact, that campaign seems disciplined to me. Offices in all 50 states, no doubt with petitions for ballot access as an independent ready to roll.
Williams, the entitled lightweight has no qualifications, none, for the presidency. I would like to see her get off her high horse and run for, oh, maybe county commissioner or similar where actual work would be required.
Mary Bennett
I heard Kennedy was making a big announcement today
Haven't seen anything about it yet, but if he is going to announce disaffiliation
with the DNC, West may have taken some of the wind out of his sails. On the
other hand, if he is going green, it may make more sense as to West's action?
We'll see.
Haven't heard about
announcement today, but a few days ago he said he would have a major announcement on Oct 9 in Philly, presumably to declare his candidacy as an independent.
So this move by CW seems like an attempt to blunt the impact of Kennedy's expected move a/o he was not happy with how things were going with the Greens. It was his major backers Chris Hedges and Jill Stein who encouraged him to leave the People's Party and go GP, so I wonder about their reaction. Unclear whether this hinders West's ability to get on the ballot in the 50 states, but I thought the GP were already eligible to be on the ballot in nearly all of the 50. This flightiness or indecisiveness by West is not a good look.
edit: Or it could be to get a few days' head start against Kennedy in certain states with restrictive laws about petitions for indy candidates, per Politico: "Another complication for West could come if more than one candidate wants to run as an independent, Winger said, because in some states a voter can’t sign petitions for multiple independent candidates.
This means that if any other candidate also runs as an independent — as Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is rumored to be considering — there’ll be extra incentive to move quickly." https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/05/cornel-west-independent-bid-001...
Meanwhile, as Nastarana noted above, the Kennedy campaign is well organized and funded, and can count on many volunteers across the country to get the various jobs done. He has politics and campaigning in his DNA, so knows about the importance of good organization and funding.
I wonder about...
Stein's and Hedge's reaction to West's actions as well. I hope it's not meant to screw up RFK, Jr's candidacy.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Yep, Kennedy's campaign...
seems to be the most organized of the outsiders. I'm on his email/announcement list and I think he's going to announce 'something major' 9th Oct in Philly. I assume it's running as an independent.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Not sure how this may apply
But there's a man, Ed Dowd, who spent a decade bringing good news for a big NY investment firm some years ago, then stepped away. Looks to be about 45.
He's now signed on, with partner apparently, as RFK's financial expert.
His website could be more impcressive, but he doesn't look fake.
Footnote: From Hedges to Macgregor to Napolitano and beyond, the person may be wearing a suit, but hasn't put a tie on. One variant, as with Musk, can often be a plain black T-shirt. And they look more comfortable...
I just don't get it...
confused is right. What party is West gonna run under/on or whatever? Maybe his group can set up voting in every state but... I don't think so. I'm just not impressed with this.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Respectfully, I see it differently
Surprisingly to myself, I feel unusually comfortable in the confusion.
It sort of affirms for me the irrelevance of identifying with one party or another, and the significance of getting the message across in whatever context is receptive.
I agree with everything you said!
The confusion does that for sure, and it reinforces not identifying with a party. BUT West has to get on the ballot in 50 states. Parties do that for people. Good support systems, like RFK Jr seems to have (not party, but people supporting him) can do that. Not sure West has that...
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
I thought you might agree
I'm just sorry about the insurmountable quest to achieve a voting voice in America.
The election for PM takes place every three years here. The election that will determine who will have that 'honour' takes place in exactly one week. The organisation of government is different than America. Surprisingly, we’ve had nine new parties added to the ballot in the last year. Only a couple are serious challengers. They will not become part of the government, but they will reveal how significant a number of voters want change on all sides.
There’s something I love about this document. I think it is the fact that it is informative in an accessible ‘Dick and Jane’ sort of way.
https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/political-parties-in-new-zealand/re...
Cheers, Sima
Hello there Another Peasant
good to see you back. I noticed you posted to an earlier thread (5-25-22)
which is probably off the radar of most posters. For more eyeballs,
try a more recent OT. I'm sure you will realize more interest that way.
Thanks
This killing resonates deeply here
as one of the new (rentimg) next-door neighbors, there for less than a year, spoke to me briefly last November, claiming that they were "so nervous" about a branch falling on their nine-year-old son. I said it was doubtful, as branches mostly fall in my yard or when waterlogged during winter. But s nifty deal was likely already in place.
I now think that renters of this recenty extensively remodeled and enlarged 1900s house, had already contacted the owner, then working a two-year spell in Morocco [his trade was electrical wiring of the kind you'd want for a nice base ready to put pressure on Algiers]. So owner could say the huge, unnecessary action was not his doing but the renters.
And then, very soon, a spray-painted thin white line appeared all around the four-to-five-foot diameter base of the old Willow the woman renter was referring to. And I got nicely typed letters informing me of what would happen, despite city regulations prohibiting the removal of trees with trunk diameters wider than about 3-4 inches. The owner of the property had already contacted an "arborist" who said the tree was "unsteady," apparently all that was needed for the action, and sent me a copy of that report. All to happen in the next few days. And not just some weak branches, the whole thing.
I visited all the neighbors I could -- no protest was evoked.
And so, on November 11, in come trucks and a contemptuous work crew and in a day and a half the 100+ year old vigorous willow was gone. But of course now there's a lot of nice clean gravel where two or three cars can park. No bone-breaking falling leaves and germs.
So this close friend of the 45 years I iived by it was taken away, along with the shade it provided for the house to the west of it (owner of that place, where tree had cast valuable shade, had not even been contacted). I later saw not a scrap of rot in the wide base of the trunk.
I haven't spoken to the renter people since. Won't speak to owner either, who had created a nice setup -- it was the renters - not him - who wanted the tree gone, so he was just helping.
Oddly I did manage to carry away a couple of 5" diameter branches that I leaned against a pile of kindling-to-be, and one has sent up a bunch of good green shoots. So as soon as I can I'll put that friend in a good spot at the side of a decades-old compost heap in my yard and try to start over.
[edit to fix typo]