Sweden and Finland OK to Join NATO

At the G7 meeting a diplomatic resolution was reached with Turkey. Turkey withdrew its objection to the two countries joining Nato.

I know Sweden valued it's non aligned reputation and was one of, and often the only country allowed to run humanitarian programs in closed communist countries such as Vietnam and Laos.

Living next to such a belligerent and increasingly unhinged neighbor such as the dictator for life Putin I can well understand. If they were to be attacked by Russia Nato obligations would require all Nato Members to attack Russia in turn. Screen Shot 2022-06-28 at 5.53.04 PM.png

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Thanks. Very odd Turkey approved this.

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QMS's picture

@on the cusp @on the cusp

but that sounds like a smoke screen. Erdogan had his arms twisted.

“Turkey got what it wanted,” Erdogan said in a statement after the deal was announced.

https://www.rt.com/news/558027-turkey-finland-sweden-nato-deal/

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@QMS I kid...
I KNOW it had nothing to do with oil. Or, or, arms deals. Or, Or, ...same ol' same ol'.

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@on the cusp I usually just go to AP or Reuters for anything I post, if nothing else they won't have an article unless it's legit. They are straight news.

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@ban nock
than to assume any to be completely reliable. Unless your aim is simply to pick a team and exclude any news outlets that contradicts that team’s narrative.

Truth must be gleaned by sorting and sifting contradictory assertions. It’s hard work these days, and requires much more effort than simply seeing certain news sources as purveyors of truth and all others as evil liars. All news comes in shades of grey. None are pure.

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“We have a very small window in which we need to make a fundamental shift away from capitalism.” Kshama Sawant

@ovals49 Actually not. Your sources maybe. Look at the top center of this chart.
https://adfontesmedia.com/
Highest in reliability and least biased. I have no time for flakes. No Dk, no storm front.

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@ban nock

Look at the top center of this chart.

Truth has no bias, neither does it have a party or political affiliation. The whole left vs. right paradigm is an artificial construct that our political system finds useful.

Just out of curiosity, where do you see yourself on the left - right chart that you linked to?

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“We have a very small window in which we need to make a fundamental shift away from capitalism.” Kshama Sawant

@ovals49 I go back and forth depending on the issue.

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snoopydawg's picture

@ban nock

and most of the ones listed employ ex pentagon and military officials that tells people what the government wants them to know. Good grief. When both Carlson and Maddow were sued for distorting their facts a judge ruled that their viewers should know that they deal in propaganda. But the chart says that Rachel Moscow is a high variation of reliability, but Carlson is selective, unfair persuasion, propaganda or other issues.

New York Times has never seen a war it hasn’t embraced and lied for years about Saddam having WMDs. They recently said that there were no American boots on the ground in Ukraine, but oops that wasn’t true was it? The CIA has been involved in Ukraine long before the coup in 2014 and has been arming and training Nazis. I’d quit trusting those sources if I actually wanted to know what the facts are. I take nothing at face value and check multiple sources. I did read Putin’s statement for why he started the special military operation. As he stated he tried for years to get Germany and France to uphold the Minsk 2 agreement for 8 years whilst Ukraine kept bombing Ukrainians living in the Donbas. And for nato to quit encroaching on Russia’s borders. I watched as Obama was doing just that. Now Biden’s sending tens of thousands of troops into Poland which will just threaten Russia even more. Sane people would be against this.

Very few people own all the media companies and those that don’t toe the government line are censored into oblivion. Doesn’t that bother you?

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

factions fighting Turkey. Turkey has labeled them terrorists.

Turkey isn't pro Russia or anything, a manufacturer there is the main supplier of Ukraine's drones, they make songs about that drone in Ukraine.

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CB's picture

@ban nock

Head of Rostourism: in Turkey, a significant part of the infrastructure already accepts the MIR card

Russian tourists can pay for services with a MIR card in almost all hotels in Turkey, said Zarina Doguzova, head of Rostourism.
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Earlier, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said that Russia and Turkey had agreed to start accepting the MIR card in Turkish hotels, as well as to increase its use at ATMs.

‘Turkey got what it wanted’: An Erdogan victory, a poll bump, but little substance in Nato expansion deal
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“I don’t think there was any attempt to please Russia,” said Toni Alaranta, a specialist on Turkey at the Finnish institute For International Affairs in Helsinki. “Turkey has been trying to do this balancing act between Russia and the west for some time but it does not mean Putin and Erdogan had some kind of deal. The relationship between Russia and Turkey is just as complex and ambiguous as it is between Turkey and the west.”

Sweden and Finland have been working closely with Nato in joint military exercises and in security arenas such as intelligence for decades. That coordination has intensified after the 2014 Russian attack on eastern Ukraine, and has become even more pronounced since the Moscow’s ongoing war against Ukraine. The two Nordic countries have long been integrating their defence strategies and operations with Nato, regardless of formal membership.

“They have both been able to work as the closest possible way short of membership since the 1990s,” said Ms Alander. “It was clear that Turkey can’t and won’t stop Finland and Sweden becoming members. Time was on Finland and Sweden’s side because the blocking strategy wouldn’t work after a while.”
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“In the grand scheme of things these types of foreign policy successes are short-lived in a country that has a very turbulent news cycle,” said Mr Ulgen.

“The main issue domestically is not about foreign policy, it’s the economy. That matters much more than foreign policy actions. There might be a boost for Erdogan but it’s going to be limited and short-lived.”

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snoopydawg's picture

How exciting it must be for you to see our money going for war and the chance of nuclear annihilation and the threat of loss of all life on earth while America falls further into a 3rd world country with more homelessness and people falling into poverty.

As for Putin = Hitler I don’t see Putin building concentration camps and murdering millions because of their ancestry or way of life like Hitler did or doing medical experiments on Ukrainians or using them as slave labor. America however has been experimenting on Ukrainians with stuff cooked up in their bio labs there. Oops…did you not know that? I never thought I’d see the day when Americans turned a blind eye to Nazis and everything they stand for and yet here we are. My grandpa is turning in his grave after fighting the scourge of Nazis that America propped up then without his knowledge.

There was once a time that shitlibs were for peace and to end NATO expansion and the military industrial complex, but that was before democrats broke people’s minds with Russia Russia Russia. I find nothing to cheer about this. Russia’s military operation could have easily been avoided and tens of thousands of Ukrainians could still be alive, but America no longer has an anti war movement because too many people have bought the daily propaganda.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg has swallowed the propaganda.
As for Sweden joining NATO, I don't really care.

Finland joining NATO is MUCH more alarming, because they border Russia. Thus NATO continues to surround Russia, becoming more of a threat to Russia, making Russia more fearful and paranoid.
Thus making Russia, a major nuclear power, more dangerous.

Anyone with half a brain would not celebrate the ratcheting up of tensions with a nation that could eliminate all life on this planet. If you think this statement is an insult, then you're an idiot. It's what MADD is all about.

Anyone who isn't an idiot would be looking for ways to end the conflict and avoid a nuclear war.

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@snoopydawg CNN

White House officials are losing confidence that Ukraine will ever be able to take back all of the land it has lost to Russia over the past four months of war, US officials told CNN, even with the heavier and more sophisticated weaponry the US and its allies plan to send.
Advisers to President Joe Biden have begun debating internally how and whether Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky should shift his definition of a Ukrainian "victory" -- adjusting for the possibility that his country has shrunk irreversibly.

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the change of position? Every position then is also the now, unless...

What does Turkey get, out of a meeting, and who might have done some arm twisting?

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@on the cusp Turkey is a member of NATO, admitting new members must be unanimous. All of Europe recognises Russia as being an extremely dangerous country right now, it's in all of their interests to present a united front to discourage further adventurism.

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@ban nock Pure.

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QMS's picture

@on the cusp

alternative spelling Wink

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janis b's picture

but thought I’d drop what I’m listening to now, here ...

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the image you have posted, labeled Putin = Hitler, is the most disturbing thing I have seen at this site. You used the word "unhinged" to describe Putin. Without making it personal against you, I must say the artist who produced that image seems, just as you said, unhinged.

How is it possible that the forces who have captured and exposed Azov battalion soldiers wearing Nazi tatoos are Hitler, and the Azov battalion soldiers who are proudly wearing the tatoos are not?

How have the forces who have captured Azov headquarters and barracks, filled with Nazi manuals, posters, emblems, and photographs, including photographs of Adolf Hitler, become Hitler in your mind, while the Nazi Azov murderers are not?

How has this happened to you? Is it as simple as Reuters and AP showing you images like the one you posted? Is it because Russia invaded Ukraine and Hitler invaded Ukraine, therefore Putin = Hitler? Have you applied this same equivalency to the United States invading Germany in World War II?

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CB's picture

about Sweden and Finland vis-à-vis Hitler and the Nazis. Do you have any idea how nonsensical this diary is? Have you studied even a modicum about the events of WWII?

Revealed: How 'neutral' Sweden made secret loans to Nazi Germany during WWII

Sweden made secret loans to Nazi Germany during World War 2, it has been revealed.

New documents show how the Swedish finance minister in wartime, Ernst Wigforss, approved bank credits to Berlin in 1941. The details were recently uncovered in a filing cabinet at the finance ministry.

The loans served to increase Swedish exports to Nazi Germany, allowing it to prosecute its war on all fronts.
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In June of 1941, the year that Germany launched its invasion of the Soviet Union, the Nazis asked Sweden for military concessions regarding logistical support.

The concessions were granted, but not after a political debate that has been termed the 'midsummer crisis'.
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'The result of the approval of the bank credits meant that Sweden avoided demands from Germany for direct Swedish state aid and that Swedish boat yards could continue to build vessels for Nazi Germany's navy,' said one Swedish news website.

Finland helped Nazis murder Jews during WWII: report

Finnish military volunteers helped the Nazis carry out the mass killing of Jews during World War II, according to a new report.

Authorities in the Scandinavian nation revealed the findings Friday in a 248-page government-commissioned independent report, which showed that 1,408 Finnish volunteers — many between the ages of 17 and 20 — served with the SS Panzer Division Wiking from 1941 to 1943.

“It is very likely that they participated in the killing of Jews, other civilians and prisoners of war as part of the German SS troops,” said Jussi Nuorteva, director-general of Finland’s National Archives.

Finland proved an “example of unique and exemplary civic courage” by owning up to its dark past, Holocaust historian Efraim Zuroff of the Simon Wiesenthal Center said Sunday. Finland undertook the study at Zuroff’s request in 2018.

After losing several territories to a Soviet invasion in 1939, Finland entered a deal with Nazi Germany for material support against Moscow. But the agreement also required the Nordic country provide some 400 volunteers for the SS Wiking division — a pact it reluctantly honored, the report concluded.
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snoopydawg's picture

@CB

to never join NATO. Just like Ukraine signed one with Russia not to put their security above Russia if it would threaten Russia. Seems more countries are ignoring the treaties they signed with Russia and becoming more America-nized and doing whatever the hell they want. US tears up any treaty that goes against its agenda.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

The CIA is on the ground in Ukraine

This is awesome. The CIA has a long record for fighting the Just Cause and winning in the end.

[edit] I was looking at my reddit account and I found this I had forgotten I had wrote it.

Why I oppose having a military confrontation with Russia

I'd like to make my feelings perfectly clear on this whole Russia v. Ukraine thing.
I've seen online how people say that we must show our "strength" by standing up to Russia. That this is Munich all over again (because obviously every enemy is Hitler).

When I've tried to push back on this I've been called a Putin apologist, a Russian bot, and a Tankie.
So I'm going to simplify my argument in a way that everyone can understand.

I don't want to die.

I think that it's a bad idea to risk Global Nuclear Armageddon to defend the borders of a nation that a majority of Americans couldn't find on a map.
Oh sure. "It won't come to that," you say. Because no wars in history have ever escalated in ways that the war hawks didn't anticipate. Oh wait. Actually the opposite is true.

Now to be fair, I understand the reasoning behind the arguments of the people who think it's important to "show strength".
My response to them, with all due respect, is that I don't think that we should risk destroying all life on this Earth in order to compensate for your undersized penis.
Look, I get that penis size is important, but not every guy is as insecure about their penis as you are.

To summarize, people that feel that it's important to "project strength" should find another method.
Maybe the U.S. doesn't have to be the world's policeman. Maybe we don't have to stick our noses into everyone's business, and tell everyone how they should behave. Especially when we have so many problems here at home. Has anyone considered that?

I think that this aged well.

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snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

I think that this aged well.

I can’t believe how many people are willing to risk nuclear annihilation or watch as millions die from hunger just so they can stick it to Putin who had been warning us for decades that we were getting close to crossing Russia’s red lines. He offered sensible alternatives to stop what is now happening, but Biden, NATO and those who want to get their hands on Russia’s resources thought that he was just kidding.

America is demanding that Russia de-colonize the countries they have owned for centuries whilst ignoring its own history of colonialism and stealing the land from Native Americans and having over 800 military bases across the fcking world. Americans for some reason ignores what its military has done to countless countries since the end of WW2 and how many millions of people it has killed, but then they still think that they are free. And that voting matters.

Let’s put Biden and Putin in a room and they can measure their dicks and the world can have peace at last.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

CB's picture

Caitlin’s Newsletter:

Empire To Expand NATO In Response To War Caused By NATO Expansion

Turkey's President Erdoğan has officially withdrawn Ankara's objection to the addition of Finland and Sweden to NATO membership, with the three countries signing a trilateral memorandum at a NATO summit in Madrid.

The removal of Erdoğan's objection was reportedly obtained via significant natsec concessions from the other two nations largely geared toward facilitating Turkey's ongoing conflict with regional Kurdish factions, and it removes the final obstacle to Finland and Sweden beginning the process of becoming NATO members. Finland's addition will more than double the size of NATO's direct border with Russia, a major national security concern for Moscow.
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This news comes out as a new CNN report tells us that the Biden administration does not believe Ukraine has any chance of winning this war, yet still won't encourage any kind of negotiated settlement to end the bloodshed.
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This would confirm what I and many others have been saying since Russia invaded: that this proxy war is being waged not with the intention of saving Ukrainian lives by delivering a swift defeat to Moscow but with the intention of creating a costly, gruelling military quagmire to weaken Russia on the world stage.
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These revelations emerge in the wake of western officials admitting that Ukraine is crawling with CIA personnel and special forces operatives from the US and other NATO countries.

"As usual it appears that the administration wants to have it both ways: assure the American people that it is being 'restrained' and that we are not 'at war' with the Russians, but doing everything but planting a U.S. soldier and a flag inside Ukraine," writes Responsible Statecraft's Kelley Beaucar Vlahos of this admission. "The Russians may not see the distinction and consider this news as further evidence that their war is more with Washington and NATO than with Ukraine."
...

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