Why so many people still think Trump worked with Russia to steal the election

So Durham showing proof that the Steele dossier was fake should put the end to Russia Gate right? Not so much. Here’s a bunch of articles showing that it was still Russian disinformation.

The fact that it was a fake was further proof that it was Kremlin-managed.

The “report that asserts that Russian president Vladimir Putin has been ‘cultivating assisting and supporting Trump’ for years and that the Russians have compromising information (kompromat) on him is, I believe, a deliberate Russian provocation,” Satter wrote in 2017. He further claimed that Steele’s sources “employed the standard techniques of Russian propaganda and manipulation,” and that “Steele was being used by the Russians.”

Satter told the Daily Caller, “there should not have been any doubt right from the beginning” that Russia was involved. What the Danchenko case shows, Satter said, is that the primary source of the allegations were “shadowy Soviet contacts, who are the perfect vehicle for conveying disinformation.”

“When Danchenko said … that he got this information from drinking buddies, this too is absolutely typical of Russian intelligence mode of operation,” Satter continued.

“The results of the Durham investigation … when it’s done [coming out] we’ll see a picture of … the Hillary Clinton campaign hungry for discrediting information, indifferent to the truth, and therefore ready to be played by the Russians for their own purposes,” Satter concluded. This is “possibly the most successful Russian active measure undertaken in the post-war period,” and done to create division in America in general, not targeting any particular political party.

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Some of the confused responses to this very uncomplicated and uncontroversial statement reflect just how much damage Trump's lies have done to the American psyche. Tragic that so many of you fell for them.

Buy a mirror, Anne.

One reply:

Thank you. Exactly on point. Still, I'm not sure the Steele dossier IS wrong! Nothing in it has been DISPROVEN either.

This article posts a bunch of propaganda that was debunked long ago. I’ll just post the highlights and you can read the rest at the source.

It wasn’t a hoax!

On high-subscription Substacks, on popular podcasts, even from within prestige media institutions, people with scant illusions about Trump the man and president are nonetheless volunteering to help him execute one of his Big Lies.

1- Dating back to at least 2006, Trump and his companies did tens of millions of dollars of business with Russian individuals and other buyers whose profiles raised the possibility of money laundering.
2- More than one-fifth of all the condominiums sold by Trump over his career were purchased in all-cash transactions by shell companies, a 2018 BuzzFeed News investigation found.

3- In 2013, Trump’s pursuit of Russian business intensified. That year, he staged the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. Around that time, Trump opened discussions on the construction of a Trump Tower in Moscow, from which he hoped to earn “hundreds of millions of dollars, if the project advanced to completion,” in the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

4- Trump continued to pursue the Tower deal for a year after he declared himself a candidate for president. “By early November 2015, Trump and a Russia-based developer signed a Letter of Intent laying out the main terms of a licensing deal,” the Senate Intelligence Committee found. Trump’s representatives directly lobbied aides to Russian President Vladimir Putin in January 2016. Yet repeatedly during the 2016 campaign, Trump falsely stated that he had no business with Russia—perhaps most notably in his second presidential debate against Hillary Clinton, in October 2016.

5- Early in 2016, President Putin ordered an influence operation to “harm the Clinton Campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the U.S. democratic process.” Again, that’s from the Senate Intelligence Committee report.

7- WikiLeaks released two big caches of hacked Democratic emails in July and October 2016. In the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee: “WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian intelligence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort.”

8- Through its ally Roger Stone, the Trump campaign team assiduously tried to communicate with WikiLeaks. Before the second WikiLeaks release, “Trump and the Campaign believed that Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone’s information suggested more releases would be forthcoming,” according to the Senate Intelligence Committee. In late summer and early fall 2016, Stone repeatedly predicted that WikiLeaks would publish an “October surprise” that would harm the Clinton campaign.

11- At crucial moments in the 2016 election, Trump publicly took positions that broke with past Republican policy and served no apparent domestic political purpose, but that supported Putin’s foreign-policy goals: scoffing at NATO support for Estonia, denigrating allies such as Germany, and endorsing Britain’s exit from the European Union.

The confirmed record may not add up to a criminal conspiracy either, not as that concept is defined by U.S. law. Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team stated that they could not prove any such conspiracy. But the confirmed record suggests an impressive record of cooperation toward a common aim—even if the terms of the cooperation were not directly communicated by one party to the other.

Christopher Steele was a former British intelligence officer working for a firm that was hired first by anti-Trump Republicans, then by Democrats, to collect opposition research on Trump’s Russia connections. As his dossier circulated behind the scenes, experts on Russian disinformation warned of its dubious reliability. But it found an audience anyway within parts of the U.S. government and U.S. law enforcement, and in January 2017, BuzzFeed published it.

That decision was strenuously criticized by many. As our David Graham wrote then, “the reporter’s job is not to simply dump as much information as possible into the public domain … It is to gather information, sift through it, and determine what is true and what is not.” The veteran Russia correspondent David Satter warned in National Review that the dossier’s more lurid allegations reminded him of “the work of the ‘novelists’ in the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) whose job it is to come up with stories to discredit individuals without much regard for plausibility.” (Satter wrote the definitive account of FSB involvement in the 2000 apartment bombings that helped bring to power Vladimir Putin, and was booted from Russia in 2014 by the Putin regime for his reporting.)

The Steele dossier undertook to answer the question “What the hell is going on with Trump and Russia?” The Senate Intelligence Committee found that the FBI investigation gave the Steele dossier “unjustified credence.” But the disintegration of the dossier’s answers has not silenced the power of its question.

It was to silence that question that the outgoing Trump administration appointed a special counsel of its own to investigate its investigators. John Durham has now issued three indictments, all for lying to the FBI about various aspects of the Steele dossier. None of these indictments vindicates Trump’s claims in any way. It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump campaign welcomed the help. It remains fact that Trump’s campaign chairman sought to share proprietary campaign information with a person whom the Senate report identified as a “Russian intelligence officer.” It remains fact that Trump hoped to score a huge payday in Russia even as he ran for president. It remains fact that Trump and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about their connections to Russia.

So by all means, follow the trail on Steele. But be mindful that much of that trail was prepared by people who want to misdirect and mislead. Take care how far you step along that trail. Be alert to how the twists of the trail block your view of the surrounding landscape. Otherwise, you may discover too late that you have also been misdirected and misled, and that in setting out to explore a small truth, you have become a participant in the selling of a greater lie.

David Frum is a staff writer at The Atlantic

Russiagate Was Not a Hoax

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence confirmed what the Mueller report could not.

Rereading the Mueller report more than a year after its publication is an exercise in disappointment. One gets the feeling that Robert Mueller didn’t press his inquiry to its end. Instead of settling the questions that haunt the 2016 campaign, he left them dangling, publishing a stilted document riddled with insinuation and lacunae. He rushed his work, closing up shop before finishing his assignment.
(Mueller had 16 months to find that Trump did not collude with Russia. -sd)

While Mueller received all the hype, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence kept its head down. Yesterday, having avoided cable speculation almost entirely, the SSCI released the fifth and final volume of a report on Russia’s attempt to sway the last election in Donald Trump’s favor. It finally delivered what Mueller either could not or would not: a comprehensive presentation of the evidence in the matter of “collusion.” The report confirms that Russiagate is no hoax. Whether or not the Trump campaign illegally coordinated with the Kremlin, Trump has no grounds for proclaiming vindication, much less that he’s the victim of a witch hunt.

The thousand-page fifth volume doesn’t definitively settle the question, in part because the SSCI was unable to procure a full record of events. The White House engaged in gamesmanship, invoking executive privilege to deny witnesses and block access to a paper trail.

When Mueller’s prosecutors appeared in court, in February 2019, they implied that the most troubling evidence they had uncovered implicated Manafort, the Trump campaign chairman. This wasn’t a surprising admission. Throughout their filings, Mueller’s team referred to Manafort’s Kyiv-based aide-de-camp, Konstantin Kilimnik, as an active Russian agent. Manafort had clearly spoken with Kilimnik during the campaign, and had even passed confidential campaign information to him, with the understanding that the documents would ultimately arrive in the hands of oligarchs close to the Kremlin.
(The information was released weeks before and could be found on many websites. -sd)

Mueller did not fully explain why Manafort’s relationship with his Ukraine-based adviser so bothered his prosecutors. Why had Manafort passed along the documents? And what did the oligarchs want with them?

The committee fills in the gaps somewhat. It reports that Manafort and Kilimnik talked almost daily during the campaign. They communicated through encrypted technologies set to automatically erase their correspondence; they spoke using code words and shared access to an email account. It’s worth pausing on these facts: The chairman of the Trump campaign was in daily contact with a Russian agent, constantly sharing confidential information with him. That alone makes for one of the worst scandals in American political history.

The significant revelation of the document is that Kilimnik was likely a participant in the Kremlin scheme to hack and leak Clinton campaign emails.** Furthermore, Kilimnik kept in close contact with the Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, a former client of Manafort’s. The report also indicates that Deripaska was connected to his government’s hacking efforts. This fact is especially suggestive: Deripaska had accused Manafort of stealing money from him, and Manafort hoped to repair his relationship with the oligarch. Was Manafort passing information to him, through Kilimnik, for the sake of currying favor with an old patron?
(** Crowdstrike's CEO admitted to congress in 2017 that he never saw evidence that the information on the DNC computer ever left the server. -sd)

The committee has referred five Trump aides and supporters to the Justice Department for possibly providing false testimony. By undermining investigators, Trump’s cronies rendered Mueller’s report a hash lacking a firm conclusion. They helped detonate the charge of collusion, letting it fizzle well ahead of the 2020 election.

The SSCI report does an honorable job of showing which strands of speculation deserve to be buried—Carter Page, for instance, was just a grifter who never got close to the heart of the Trump campaign. **
(**Carter Page had been a CIA asset working for them in Russia, but that was never told to the FISA court when the FBI got its 1st warrant to wiretap Trump’s campaign. No warrant and the investigation could never have happened. -sd)

So many aspects of Trump-campaign behavior were suspicious—and designed to evade detection—that the truth remains elusive, even after a careful Senate investigation. The publication of this admirable report should not mark the end of the quest to uncover what really happened.

Franklin Foer is a staff writer at The Atlantic

The Atlantic is the mouthpiece for the Atlantic Council that is made up of government employees who are active in government and out of it. Plus many NATO members and some people from Saudi Arabia and other countries. It helps set our foreign policies.

No matter how much information is revealed to show that Russia Gate was a fake story made up by Hillary to keep people from focusing on her loss and her email server scandal people will probably go to their grave thinking that Trump was a Russian asset and that Hillary lost because Russia interfered with the election. I don’t know what else will get them to open their eyes to one of the biggest mind fck’s in history.

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9 users have voted.

for promoting this illogical trash. Not to mention, it leads to to tensions between 2 nuclear armed countries.
It is a known fact Hillary's staff come up with this idea to excuse her loss.
Lie to an FBI agent, you can go to prison. Get elected to some national government office, you can lie to everybody, with no consequences.
Crystallizing this to the one issue: The dossier was true, until it was proven to be untrue, and NOW, its' untruthfulness is the proof.
Russiagate is in it's 4th or 5th year? Is this the way it will always be? Will be ever get over Trump? Or Hillary's defeat? Ever?
Both of them are in the news every time I look up.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

@on the cusp

and Trump Trump and still are. The media saw that without Trump to write about daily or hourly they lost lots of bucks and so even though they couldn’t wait for him to leave office so they could stop talking about him they are still talking about him every damn day. Hillary of course can’t stand to see him getting so much attention still so she has to put herself back in the conversation. From the Huffpoo this morning:

Hillary Clinton Warns What People Might Be Missing About A Trump Run In 2024

Hillary Clinton warned in a new interview that a possible 2024 presidential run by Donald Trump will be an inflection point for America.

“If I were a betting person right now, I’d say Trump is going to run again,” the 2016 Democratic presidential candidate told “Sunday TODAY’s” Willie Geist in a preview clip from their sit-down that will be aired in full this weekend.

“But I want people to understand that this is a make-or-break point,” Clinton continued. “Are we going to give in to all these lies and this disinformation and this organized effort to undermine our rule of law and our institutions, or are we going to stand up to it?”

Clinton won the popular vote but lost the 2016 election to Trump

Good lord, the hubris of saying that! Of course I don’t know Hillary’s motives for needing to remind us that she is still alive, but she seems to like reminding us that she lost one of the easiest elections in history. She could have run on how Obama let people down and behind during the recovery and say what she would do differently, but instead she called half the country deplorables, told us that universal health care would never, ever happen and refused to see why no one would trust her to rein in the banks after getting paid lots of bucks to speak to them. Her doing another mega fundraiser at some wealthy person’s home in California instead of going where her campaign told her she was in trouble didn’t help either.

Democrats are making sure that Trump stays in the news with their dragged out investigation into the capital riot. Whoever is going to run against Trump is already behind in pre-election coverage because the media is again giving Trump free air time.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

don't readily collapse for lack of evidence. It's sort of like the dispute between the ancient mapmakers and religion that had earth as the center of the universe and the Copernican heliocentric solar system. Every time a new star was discovered, those mapmakers could concoct a complicated, circular model to explain its movement and reinforce their view. The evidence for heliocentrism piled up for over two hundred years before the RCC dropped its formal objections.

IDK the if percentage of USians that disbelieve Clinton lost in 2016 and Trump lost in 2020 differs by much. A difference is that the former rely upon a well organized and promulgated fiction for their faith and the latter only have a disorganized explanation that is scoffed at by the MSM. The Russiagate fiction is strengthened by unsolved mysteries: the capture and release of DNC and Podesta emails. Both of which reflected poorly on HRC and the DP and in real time the theft and release of the DNC emails were blamed on Russia/Putin. When published a month later by Wikileaks, it was turned into a collusion by Russia/Putin and Assange. (Nixon had journalists on his enemy list as well.)

In 2015 and 2016, most journalists and news organization played dirty pool with the electorate as dirty as what the DNC did. They thought they were in control; they could have their cake and eat it too. Hubris from 1999/2000 and 2007/08 when they were confident that they, and not the electorate, had selected the nominees and winners even as 2000 required an outrageous SCOTUS decision to cover their journalistic malfeasance. (That explains why the coverage of the coverage of Bush v. Gore was given as little coverage as possible.) Even as the MSM barely got over the nomination finish line with HER after first ignoring and then relentlessly trashing Sanders (probably with some Democratic election rigging), they still thought they were in control. In part because it had been so easy for them to pump up Trump to secure his nomination. Thus, the general election would be a piece of cake for them.

They remained too enthralled with Obama to recognize that the electorate had soured on him and that the electorate had legitimate issues that hadn't been addressed by his administration. As with the DP, the MSM minimized the weakness of HRC. Fully expecting that Trump was such a ludicrous candidate that HRC couldn't possibly lose to him. Had they done their job as journalists -- field work among the electorate instead of pushing their expectation -- they would have recognized that HRC was in trouble. In spite of their crap reporting, I could see that FL and NC were in Trump's column and that meant that Trump had more ECs in the bag than HRC did. MI, PA, and WI embarrassed the MSM that had substituted expectation for reporting. So, as with HRC, they were as amenable to blaming their failure on Russia/Putin and Assange.

By 2016, they had been envying and trashing Assange for years beginning with the fake rape charges in Sweden that set off his incarceration. While ignoring and/or covering up actual sexual assaults by Cuomo, Matt Lauer, Weinstein, and others. US journos may soon enough discover that they TOO can be subjected to the same treatment as Assange.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Marie

I agree with this.

IDK the if percentage of USians that disbelieve Clinton lost in 2016 and Trump lost in 2020 differs by much.

Election Gate is just as silly as Russia Gate was. For 4 years people on the right laughed at the left for believing in Russia Gate and now the left is laughing at the right for believing that the election was stolen. Well played PTB. The country is even more divided. The DNC information and Podesta emails showed how they rigged the primary against Bernie, but if that wasn’t enough they then admitted that they did in court. But the Hillary fans still say that they didn’t do that. But they won’t believe that the Steele dossier was bogus. And didn’t Schiff read it into the congressional record knowing that it was false? Is there a penalty for that? Schiff kept saying that he had solid proof that Russia colluded with Trump on the election. Okay where is it? Be funny if republicans investigated the bogus Russia Gate scam when they wipe out democrats in the midterms. Why not? It’s not like they will do anything to help us so why not grab some popcorn?

More dishonesty. From the 1st article:

As his dossier circulated behind the scenes, experts on Russian disinformation warned of its dubious reliability. But it found an audience anyway within parts of the U.S. government and U.S. law enforcement, and in January 2017, BuzzFeed published it

Actually it was Russia that warned the CIA that Hillary was going to do a misinformation campaign against Trump, Brennan told Obama about it and then the CIA and FBI weaponized it against Trump and made up lies to go after Trump. Mueller had to know that it was bogus, but ran with it anyway. But once sworn in he didn’t continue to lie about what he found.

Can you refresh my memory on this?

They thought they were in control; they could have their cake and eat it too. Hubris from 1999/2000 and 2007/08 when they were confident that they, and not the electorate, had selected the nominees and winners even as 2000 required an outrageous SCOTUS decision to cover their journalistic malfeasance.

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@snoopydawg
favorites in the primary and general elections. They pumped up McCain and Bradley and trashed Gore from the earliest days of the election cycle. GWB and Gore did get down and dirty during the primaries and succeeded in overriding the MSM choices. An important component in that election was federal funding. Gore, Bradley, and McCain were heavily reliant on federal matching funds and did need to wrap up the primary cycle a quickly as possible because their fundraising was weak. Nobody (outside team Bush) gave much thought to how passing on primary matching funds could change the dynamics of the election, Team Bush remained in campaign mode all the way until the GOP convention while Team Gore went dark.

The MSM switched to favoring GWB for the general election and continued trashing Gore. At the point, it was a level playing field for campaign spending as both were publicly financed. Post election day, GWB once again had lots of money and Gore had very little.

2007/08 the MSM did favor Obama, but not by a huge margin during the primaries. (Imagine if the MSM had dug into the Jeffrey Epstein case from his first charges May 2006 until his June 2008 plea deal.) Obama was the first candidate to reject federal funding for the general election.

Campaign spending means ad buys and revenue for the MSM. So, I guess it's in their interest to favor the candidate with more money, but they would deny that as strenuously a they reject that they had a horse in elections.

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Azazello's picture

@Marie
Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.
Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.
The belief in the connection persists even though there has been no proof of a link between the two.

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

@Azazello
As no WMD had turned up in the months since the invasion, people found another reason that had been suggested but not sold heavily by the GWB administration for the war. That it was as fictitious as the WMD doesn't seem to bother 70% of Americans who are predisposed to support US wars of aggression. Scary.

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Azazello's picture

@Marie
No, the government never claimed that Saddam was involved in 9-11. It was enough that 9-11 and Saddam were very often mentioned in the same paragraph of a news story or press release.
That's enough to form to association in the mind of a casual listener. And then, after the fact, they reasoned, "Well, we wouldn't have attacked him if he wasn't guilty of something."

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

@Azazello
of instances where GWB or Cheney stated a direct link between Saddam and 9/11. However, you are correct that they used propaganda techniques that led the public to make the 9/11 - Saddam link. Probably shouldn't omit that shortly after 9/11 there were the anthrax attacks and BushCo most definitely attributed them to Saddam until science caught up with that bs.

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"Russia did it". Well, what the hell does that mean? Some Hackers in St Petersburg came up with some very unfocussed click bait to make money? Where is the evidence against the actual Russian government?

America, America, America, America. "America did it". Who hacked the Russian election in 16 June 1996 and put alcoholic addled Boris Yeltsin in the Kremlin? Yes, we actually did it and we bragged about it.

Perspective anyone? Russia could have spent tens of billions of Rubles and sent an an entire election staff to DC for Trump and we still would not be even in hacking the other country's election. Arrogance beyond belief!

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

snoopydawg's picture

@The Wizard

https://www.rt.com/russia/542786-kremlin-officials-warming-relations-cia/

My other comment below is to you too. Forgot to do that. Still looking for the other one.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg
Good link, thanks. Some of the comments are pretty good too. Apparently there was a CIA infestation in the Russian government left behind after Yeltsin was consumed in an alcoholic death cloud. President Putin got rid of them. I can only imagine what Putin thinks of the Russia Gate farce, since he knows everything first hand. I do get the feeling that the leadership in Russia is very confident about what they know.
I wonder if anyone of the neocons is thinking abut what happens in a post USA empire world, especially since China and Russia will be huge players, and we have thoroughly abused them.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

snoopydawg's picture

lol..Mueller did charge some people in Russian intelligence for that, but refused to give their lawyers the evidence when they surprised him and showed up to defend them. And I just don’t see how Jesus telling men not to jerk off would influence anyone to vote one way or another.

We destroyed the Russian economy and if reports are true it’s why yeltzin got Putin to be president. I recently read an article about that on RT. I’ll try to find it. It also said that we had CIA agents installed in their government. I think an influence campaign is mild compared to that and much nicer than our many violent coups.

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zed2's picture

I have to agree that Atlantic Council is an unreliable source to me. They are trying to promote the oligarchs deal to trade away our nations jobs to lower wages. People cant survive without work. The goal is to push the going rate for skilled professions way down in the developed countries byu importning desperate foreign labor in a manner that will tie people to jobs that pay well below their jobs are worth. This is not what should be being done with our tax money. Certainly Democrats should not be pushing this agenda. Its a theft of peoples votes for politicians to hide what they are doing like this. Its certainly not helping the poor countries people as they claim, unless one means the poor millionaires who want to be billionaires.

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lotlizard's picture

@zed2  
and NATO. That’s how they get to run the foreign ministry in the new Olaf Scholz administration.

Today’s Greens have absolutely nothing, zilch, zip, nada to do with the original peace-movement party founded by Petra Kelly et al.

F— them. I’m withdrawing from following politics, it’s a fool’s game.

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mimi's picture

@lotlizard

She is dangerously embarrassing Scholz. I don't respect her. Powerhungry traitor.

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Shahryar's picture

they zapped us with facebook ads that registered in our brains and then the ads disappeared, leaving only the instruction "Trump good". That's why no one can recall seeing any ad. It's very closely related to Havana Syndrome.

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wendy davis's picture

i sure wish i could rent space in your (and other commenters') RAM.

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when Anne Applebaum was a good and reputable journalist. Seems like a loong time ago.

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Mary Bennett

Shahryar's picture

@Nastarana

because they seem to be on "our side". Rachel Maddow is a good example. She was "against" Bush. I put that in quotes because who knows what she thought? But she seemed ok. Bush was truly bad. Cheney was truly bad. And she was against them! Yes! But then Obama got in and whenever he did something terrible, which was often enough, she'd deflect it by saying "but that's not good enough for Republicans!" So it turned out she was for the Democratic establishment and all that it means and doesn't mean.

Many of these people also change their tone when they change employers because they have no souls to lose.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Nastarana

she would have known that it was John McCain who gave the dossier to David Corn to publish. Corn of course then went on to write a book about it. Just one of the many people who helped push the Trump derangement syndrome that drove people bat crap crazy.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Shahryar's picture

@snoopydawg

you know that Trump is insane and evil and a menace to society and should be locked up, right? Along with Hillary, I mean. That election had the two worst possible candidates and one had to win.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Shahryar

Neither should be heard from again and I wish someone would give the media that memo. Huffpoo and lots of twits on the Twit are constantly writing about Trump all day long. But even though he’s a horrible person his tenure wasn’t that much different from Obama’s. He continued the war machine and gave the donors everything they wanted. Just like Obama did after Bush. And we should never have to make that choice again. But it’ll be either Harris or Buttigieg or Trump or a Trump clone. Yuck?

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