The Dose 10/17/21

A Column for Considerate COVID Conversations

TheDose.jpg

When I think of COVID what comes to mind from my US-centric view is profit has been the goal from the start, simple prevention strategies continue to be poorly promoted, effective safe treatments have been suppressed, and the collective mass insanity runs rampant in the States...
Here's a clip focusing on our lack of preventative care...(fast forward through the supplement ad in the middle.)

Joe Rogan asks Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN hard questions we've all been seeking answers for. I found these five clips to be among the most informative from this three hour long discussion.

The entire 3 hour episode is here if anyone has an interest.

CNN Lied About Joe Rogan ADMITS Dr. Sanjay Gupta! (25 min)
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QMS's picture

Doesn't seem to be in the cards, unfortunately.
Seems there is more media interest in obfuscation ..
Call me bewildered Wink

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Lookout's picture

@QMS

add in a heaping spoonful of fear and a couple of mandates and you'll really have something to create conflict instead of healing. So sad people's health hasn't been the goal. Whatta broken system.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

QMS's picture

Conservative media viewing correlates with intention to use ivermectin ..

Watching fringe stations and general mistrust of science are both causing problems.

ivermectin-willingness-APPC-c-1.jpg

another poll ..

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/ivermectin-willin...

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Lookout's picture

@QMS

...conservatives are less brainwashed I guess. Who knew?

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CB's picture

@Lookout
It is the controlling media that creates the narrative and direction the respective 'herd' will follow. When Trump was president, Biden, Kamala and Pelosis publicly refused to take the vaccine and the democrats followed in lock step. Once Trump was no longer in charge they were for it. TPTB are experts at manipulating people this way.

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Lookout's picture

@CB

...but the poor sheeple are. Used to divide and separate.

The following experiments are telling...
https://www.psychestudy.com/social/shock-experiment-stanley-milgram
and they made a movie about it too.
https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/movies/a-shockingly-fascinati...

Stanley Milgram's fake "Shock Machine" In 1961 and 1962, Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram performed a famous series of experiments which demonstrated that about 2 out of 3 people will perform a cruel action towards another person if instructed to do so by someone whom they regard as an authority figure.

https://outofthefog.website/movies/2015/12/8/obedience-the-stanley-milgr...

Human nature never fails to fascinate!

Thanks for the clip...

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@Lookout tendency of people to conform to social norms a/o be obedient to authority figures' edicts. And Authority Figures also include Experts, a group that educated types, esp on the left, are more inclined to place great faith in.

And preceding the Covid vaccines, there is also all the social pre-conditioning we get throughout our lives of Vaccines = Effective, Social Good (Polio and all the childhood vaccines), while dissenters are stereotyped as Ignorant Anti-Science Flat Earthers, and among this group to be despised we are given the face of the dangerous, crackpot anti-vaxxer RFK Jr as well as some prominent RWNJ pols leading the knuckle dragging rabble.

The battle lines are starkly drawn in simple black-and-white ways -- the Smart People vs The Ignoramuses -- making it easy for one side to be confirmed in the rightness of their position. So smug are they that most don't even pause to consider these vaccines on their merits, or lack thereof. They've been told by The Experts that they are safe and effective, and these statements go unopposed in the msm. Few step back to ask whether something is afoot, bc after all these are Experts advising us on Vaccines, and the reflex kicks in doubly to go with the program.

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Lookout's picture

@wokkamile

Rinse and repeat.

At least to the rational few it is interesting. The ease with which the masses can be misled.

Be well!

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QMS's picture

@Lookout

it's where the 'confusion has it 's cost' comes from
in case you were wondering ..

but I guess you know this

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Lookout's picture

@QMS

Echoes of my youth.

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@Lookout

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NYCVG

Lookout's picture

The famed and much celebrated pulmonologist Dr. Pierre Kory sits down with Chris for another intimate and powerfully honest discussion about his work as an ICU doc on the front lines of the COVID pandemic for nearly the last 2 years. Kory dives into the intense struggles he has faced treating critically ill and desperate COVID patients, while simultaneously doing battle with the nihilistic ideologues who dominate the massive, bureaucratic governmental structures such as the CDC, NIH, WHO, etc.

Day in and day out, Kory has witnessed first hand, across thousands of patients, which therapies and treatments are working and which are not. But his attempts to finally bring this exceptional body of knowledge to the fore of “official” medical institutions for their consideration and acceptance, has proven to be a futile exercise thanks to the toxic political machinations in place.

In the end, as it has always been, it’s we the people who suffer and pay the price for these inexcusable acts of ignorance. When will we ever learn the lessons hard taught to us over these last 2 devastating years? Kory, for one, isn’t holding his breath

(16 min)

full hour + interview here:
https://www.peakprosperity.com/this-is-war-an-interview-with-pierre-kory/

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snoopydawg's picture

Since big pharma has insisted on total immunity for consequences of the vaccines it is falling on the workers to be responsible for any adverse effects and that’s not right. Businesses and especially hospitals should tell the workers that they will be responsible if something happens and that’s not happening. Great discussion. Finally someone is addressing this.

A world renowned psychologist on mass hypnosis. This is really good. I keep editing to add more. Hope you look at it.

The Fear of the Virus is More Dangerous than the Virus Itself.

Belgian psychologist Dr. Mattias Desmet may be the most articulate voice on the most clear and present danger facing us: the mob-baiting now being pursued by formerly democratic governments.

Dr. Desmet’s observations over the past 18 months have led him to conclude that the overwhelming majority of the world’s population has indeed fallen under a kind of spell. It is not literally a spell, he stresses, but a ‘mass formation’, a term first used by Gustave Le Bon, the French philosopher who 126 years ago in The Psychology of Crowds, was the first thinker systematically to outline how herd psychology differs from that of the individual. Le Bon it was who observed that the consciousness bestowed by membership of a crowd can be transformative, possessing individual members with ‘a sort of collective mind which makes them feel, think and act in a manner quite differently from that in which each individual would feel, think and act were that person in a state of isolation.’ In such a ‘psychological crowd’, individual personality disappears, brain activity is replaced by reflex activity: a lowering of intelligence, provoking a complete transformation of sentiments, which collectively may manifest as better and worse than those of the crowd’s constituent members. A crowd may just as easily become heroic or criminal, but is generally disposed towards destruction.

‘The ascendancy of crowds,’ wrote Le Bon, ‘indicates the death throes of a civilisation.’ The upward climb to civilisation is an intellectual process driven by individuals; the descent is a herd in stampede. ‘Crowds are only useful for destruction.’

These symptoms are manifesting now, perhaps as never before, in our once free Western world, in a process substantively resembling mass hypnosis, as a collective psychological response to the unrelenting, single-focus campaign of fear to which we have all been subjected for a year and a half. Indeed, we may now have reached a stage in this process that even Le Bon did not anticipate, for now the mesmerisers have available to them tech and techniques he could scarcely have envisaged. Using electronic means, it is infinitely easier to convert the individual to the collective mindset than if he were a member of an actual physical crowd. The advent of social media has made the present situation not merely possible, but possibly inevitable.

Mass formation, he explains, is a form of hypnosis imposed on a crowd, a factor which we have explored in previous articles here. He is in no doubt that we speak of a literal hypnosis, with all the potential effects and symptoms of same.

He explains many aspects of what we have been witnessing, including the strange phenomenon of people’s apparent indifference to their own deprivations, hurts and incurred damage arising from the lockdowns of the past 18 months: loss of freedoms, loss of work, income, education, human contact, leisure et cetera. During mass formation, he describes, there is ‘a narrowing of the field of attention’, which allows the crowd’s constituent members to close out everything but that which the hypnotist tells them is important, which results in insensitivity to personal losses, and a willingness to sacrifice everything — education, jobs, homes, romance, health — and to disregard the losses and griefs of others. By offering a strategy to deal with the anxieties imposed by the crisis, the would-be totalitarians are able to create a bogus solidarity in a society that has destroyed true solidarity.

He is remarkably open about his own history of engagement with the Covid ‘pandemic’, acknowledging his early doubts about some of his own pronouncements. In the very early days, he briefly bought into the idea of a pandemic, but his suspicions were soon aroused by the disproportionality he observed between the measures being introduced and what he understood about the visible levels of risk from the virus. In those early weeks of the crisis, he wrote a paper titled The Fear of the Virus is More Dangerous than the Virus Itself.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-totalitarianism-deification-error/57...

I know I started taking the epidemic seriously when they locked down the country and said that only essential workers would be allowed to do their jobs. I bet lots of people living in care homes thought the same thing as did most of their families. I bet I wasn’t alone in thinking that every time I ventured out in public there was a good chance that I’d contract the Rona and end up in hospital. But then that was why it was done wasn’t it? They had to make us afraid so we wouldn’t ask too many questions.

Meanwhile they crashed the economy for millions of people and hundreds of thousands of people lost their businesses and many more lost their jobs and now they are losing their homes and apartments and so much more. But the big businesses like Amazon, Walmart and Target made out like the bandits they are. As are Blackstone, Rock, and other hedge funds. One could have caught the virus by going to a small sports store, but apparently not at Target. Go figure. Oh yeah they had to ramp up the fear factor so that we wouldn’t ask too many questions. Thankfully some people asked the questions anyway. And more are asking questions daily. Especially once the news came out about Gates and others meeting to discuss this very scenario.. they knew it was coming, but did nothing to get supplies in place for it. Gotta ask why they didn’t and if they had a goal for that. I’m sure am asking it.

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

Lookout's picture

@snoopydawg

The Fear of the Virus is More Dangerous than the Virus Itself.

It has been a head game from the start hasn't it? No word of preparation and prevention, just get vaxed and make big pharma rich....and the hell with all you dying MFers. More for US!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

CB's picture

@Lookout
We were told that ONLY the vaccines could save us. When people became infected with the COVID, TPTB said the ONLY recourse was to stay at home, isolate and if conditions got to point where you could no longer breath, you should then go to hospital for treatment.

We were told ANY prophylaxis such as ivermectin and even vitamin D and C were ineffective and and studies showing their efficacy were discredited. When push came to shove, TPTB offered to do new studies which are currently stalled in recruitment or of such a long term that it will be many months before results can be determined. This will allow for the continued indiscriminate mandate for vaccinations that are now progressing to the point of vaccinating 6 month old babies.

This 'scientific' advice actually increased unnecessary deaths which caused confusion and a sense of helplessness which in turn created fear and even panic in the population at large.

The public was now primed for mass control.

It is time to realize that we are being played and manipulated by those in control of this plandemic.

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Lookout's picture

@CB

It is time to realize that we are being played and manipulated by those in control of this plandemic.

And I would add we need to accept the endemic nature of Sars-CoV-2 just like we do the flu and colds. It is here to stay (and evolve...especially in vaccinated folks).

We can't let them drive us with fear...if I die I will have had a good life...not that I'm in a rush mind you, but that I'm no longer letting them herd me with fear of death.

All the best!

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@CB family and friends. It's been pointed out that not all get it even in close quarters, but sending sick people home it kind of like locking people with the plague in homes, sick and well alike.

I watched the whole podcast with Martenson and Kory, and can only say, that I hope there will be a breaking point or so many points of information coming from many sources that we can trust, that it will overwhelm the incessant message of one solution.

Thank you for a good thread.

Oh, and Uttar Pradesh!

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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ggersh's picture

@snoopydawg this guy seems to think the vaccine isn't safe. The testing done if it was done was totally insufficient.

Infertility is a concern for woman

https://odysee.com/@PlanetLockdown:6/Michael-Yeadon---Fertility---the-Ja...

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Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal....Robert A.Heinlein

"Unregulated Capitalism is a Suicide Pact"....Noam Chomsky

snoopydawg's picture

@ggersh

They’re doing testing on the vaccines to see what causes the bleeding problems in women. You’d think they would have done that before they were given to them. Walensky is telling pregnant women to get vaccinated, but there have been no trials on the safety for them yet. There are stories where women have had problems afterwards including the babies. It’s unconscionable that she’s doing that IMO. They don’t know the long term effects yet.

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

CB's picture

@snoopydawg
and are to run for 10 months so it appears that these companies did an end run around the CDA and FDA (again) to push their vaccines ahead of completed stage II and stage III trials. Any woman would be foolish to be a guinea pig. I wonder what the still born rates are?

Pfizer (PFE), BioNTech Test COVID-19 Vaccine in Pregnant Women
Feb 19, 2021

Pfizer Inc. PFE and partner BioNTech SE BNTX announced that the first participants have been dosed in a mid-to-late-stage study on their COVID-19 vaccine in healthy pregnant women 18 years of age and older.

The global phase II/III study will further evaluate the safety, tolerability and immunogenicity of the Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine (BNT162b2) in the above-mentioned population group. The study will enroll approximately 4,000 healthy pregnant women (18 years of age or older) in the United States and various other countries, vaccinated during 24 to 34 weeks of gestation.

The study will evaluate two doses of BNT162b2 or placebo that will be administered 21 days apart. Each woman will participate in the study for approximately 7 to 10 months, depending on whether she was randomized to receive the vaccine or placebo.
...

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@snoopydawg and therein lies the Hope.

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NYCVG

ggersh's picture

@NYCVG

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Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal....Robert A.Heinlein

"Unregulated Capitalism is a Suicide Pact"....Noam Chomsky

enhydra lutris's picture

never been part of our medicine delivery process, with limited exceptions, because there is no money in it. One exception is the delivery of drugs and medications to keep the elephants away to prevent some illness or ailment from occurring, such as diuretics, statins and the like. The other, oddly enough, is HMOs. The good ones indulge in preventive medicine in order to maintain or enhance profitability while staying price competitive in the "medical insurance" arena. The fewer patients they see and treat, and the less they treat the ones they have, the more of their up front annual fee they get to pocket.

The above, btw, is largely opinion, but at least it is text. It could've been the bullet points spaced throughout a 20 minute video. Heh

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

@enhydra lutris

is about our over all poor health and obesity which we still don't hear mentioned except in passing. Neofeudalistic serfs indeed...now complete with a neo-plague.

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snoopydawg's picture

I’ve had this tab open for months and keep coming back to it.

WHO IS SHAKING THE JAR?

“If you catch 100 red fire ants as well as 100 large black ants, and put them in a jar, at first, nothing will happen. However, if you violently shake the jar and dump them back on the ground the ants will fight until they eventually kill each other. The thing is, the red ants think the black ants are the enemy and vice versa, when in reality, the real enemy is the person who shook the jar. This is exactly what’s happening in society today. Liberal vs. Conservative. Black vs. White. Pro Mask vs. Anti-Mask. Vax vs. Anti-vax. Rich vs. poor. Man vs. woman. Cop vs. citizen. The real question we need to be asking ourselves is who’s shaking the jar… and why?” – Shera Starr

A few weeks ago, I saw the above quote in Jeff Thomas’ article Learning from Ants, and it has been reverberating in my mind ever since. It is a perfect analogy for what has been happening in this country for years, with the jar lately being shaken at a rate faster than a Biden vote count increase at 3:00 am in a swing state. Everyone in this country, and the world, is at each other’s throats. Who is shaking the jar? Why are they shaking the jar? Why do they want us fighting each other?

If they keep us focused on fighting each other, they believe we will not notice their reprehensible criminality, as they manipulate the masses through psychological engineering and the employment of propaganda techniques to push their desired narrative. If you ask someone – who is shaking the jar? – they will likely answer based on the standard left vs right, liberal vs conservative, white vs black paradigm which has been created by those benefiting from conflict. It is always a safe bet to follow the money when trying to identify the culprits.

The elevated intensity of manipulation by those pulling the strings of societal discontent reveals much about their level of desperation in creating more chaos, because the awakening of more to the truth, endangers their wealth, power, and control. They have turned the shaking power up to eleven in the last year, as an implosion of the Ponzi financial system was looming as we entered 2020, and the Deep State oligarchs needed cover to implement a massive injection of liquidity into the veins of Wall Street bankers, the medical industrial complex, and mega-corporations like Amazon, Wal-Mart and Target.

The weaponization of a contagious, but highly non-lethal to anyone under 80 years old, flu became the perfect camouflage of fear to bailout the teetering financial system and creating turmoil, chaos, and distrust among the populace. The non-stop fear mongering was purposely ramped to keep the public distracted while the national wealth pillaging operation proceeded at a breakneck pace behind the scenes. $600 for you and $10 trillion for them.
….
None of this is an accident. It is not occurring naturally. This is the result of a designed blueprint to control and rule the world by a relatively small cadre of billionaire oligarch globalists, Big Tech despots, bought off politicians, the banking cabal fronted by their puppets at the Federal Reserve, surveillance state operatives, military industrial complex parasites, captured corporate media, mega-corporations, and mid-level
….

“If you think the real power centers in the US are the Proud Boys, 4Chan & Boogaloos rather than the CIA, FBI, NSA, Wall Street and Silicon Valley, and spend most of your time battling the former while serving the latter as stenographers, your journalism is definitionally shit.”
Glenn Greenwald

The technique of using propaganda to manipulate the opinions of the masses, put forth by Edward Bernays almost one hundred years ago, has been enhanced and perfected by the deceitful and traitorous psychopaths operating as the shadow government, as they purposely construct false narratives and bogeymen, so they can expand their supremacy, dominion, and fortunes. It has always been this way, as human nature never changes, but the level and intensity has been ratcheted up to a degree never seen before in human history.

We know that the corporate media has been captured by intelligence agencies and we saw confirmation of that during Russia Gate when Brennan and his ilk were hired directly by MSDNC and CNN and they told us that Trump was being controlled by Putin. Rachel then confirmed that nightly and now after Mueller found nothing to the false story many people still believe it. No matter that Hillary just made it up, the damage has been done. I read a comment just today about how Comey cost her the election because he kept talking about her emails. But imagine if it had been a republican senator that had done what she did. They’d have wanted blood.

Also the UK used psychologists to help them manipulate the fear factor and just last week we found out that the Canadian military also used propaganda on their citizens.

Good descriptions of what democrats put the country through all during Trump’s presidency.

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7 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

Lookout's picture

@snoopydawg

see if they'll fight_0.jpg

COVID has been used to divide and conquer, and that is plain to see for those who look!

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Lookout's picture

Covid SURGES Among Most Vaxxed Communities Says Harvard Study

They sure are spinning a different narrative.

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CB's picture

@Lookout @Lookout
To make matters worse, this graph show that it was not ONLY the case rate that went up - it was the DEATH RATE that increased.

This is the same thing that happened in the UK several weeks ago. If these vaccines are indeed the cause of these extra deaths from events such ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) the deaths will be indistinguishable from COVID-19 deaths.

covid-vaccinations-vs-covid-death-rate(4).png

EDIT: Singapore is another country that is now experiencing the same rapid climb in death rates now that they have a vaccination rate between Canada and Israel. You can track countries here:

COVID-19 vaccinations vs. COVID-19 deaths, Dec 1, 2020 to Oct 16, 2021
Total vaccine doses administered per 100 people vs. daily new COVID-19 deaths per million people. USA~SGP~CAN~ISR~IND

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Lookout's picture

@CB

With IVM driving down infection.

Dr Kory has an IVM vs Merck pill article that's pretty good...
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/10/15/why_does_the_fda_hy...

The real problem is our dysfunctional drug approval process. The National Institutes of Health and FDA consistently and more readily approve shiny, new, more-profitable therapies—even if they’re less effective—while making it nearly impossible for currently available low-cost drugs to be approved for new indications despite their efficacy as repurposed treatments.

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CB's picture

Rumble — Canadian paramedic Thomas O'Connor is, like many others, facing imminent dismissal from his job for refusing to be injection with a bioweapon. Mr. O'Connor is blowing the whistle on who's really flooding our hospitals - victims of the 'vaccine'.

“As the injections increased I started seeing massive side effects. We’re seeing young people having full-blown heart attacks within days of their second dose. One individual was 37.”

Mr. O'Connor also relates how our health care system is being gutted of frontline workers. In his region alone, some 600 have quit or are being fired for refusing to comply with medical apartheid.

“Mine was very clear that I was not allowed on the property if not vaccinated by November 1st and I would be placed, at minimum, on a leave of absence without pay or more likely be fired.”

When pushed to get the 'vaccine' by his supervisor, Thomas replied, "I’m increasing my study group. I’m going to see what happens to you first and hopefully someday you’re not looking up at me asking for help.”

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Lookout's picture

@CB

Obey...
obey-eye-500x703_0.jpg

Whatta world!

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snoopydawg's picture

who have been harmed by the vaccines. At the end of the video he says that his work has been verified by peer reviewed studies.

https://rumble.com/vnbv86-winning-the-war-against-therapeutic-nihilism-a...

Steve Kirch

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5 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

Lookout's picture

@snoopydawg

Seems like his message sure is. Shut the fuck up and get your vaccine. Bad reactions are rare...very rare...but the vaccines are kinda effective.

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@Lookout working on him. First his employer Baylor Univ Medical terminated their relationship earlier this year and they are also suing him for his alleged use of their name in his subsequent public appearances.

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CB's picture

Children are being subjected to draconian COVID-19 'rules' despite deaths being lower than the seasonal influenza.

School World Order with John Klyczek

Whitney is joined by professor, author and Unlimited Hangout contributor John Klyczek to discuss how teachers unions and the US education system are selling out to Big Tech as well as the oligarch class and their long-standing plans to exploit students to advance the 4th Industrial Revolution. Originally published on 10/05/21.

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Lookout's picture

@CB

I'll check it out. My teacher friends are frustrated beyond belief. It is mess no matter how you slice it. I know I'm glad I'm not in the classroom, but do miss the interaction with kids and their honesty.

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Azazello's picture

The consensus in this thread seems to be that vaccines are a bad idea and should be resisted.
Is this the case ?
Do folks here believe that more people are dying from the vaccines than from the disease ?

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It didn't have to be this way.

Lookout's picture

@Azazello

however, I think it is important to recognize there are negative side effects for many from vaccination plus all vaxed folks experience declining immunity over time. Just tryin' to be realistic.

I'm double jabbed.

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Azazello's picture

@Lookout
Got a booster two days ago. I suppose that makes me a "sheeple", right ? There are so many competing claims and theories. There are people who actually believe that the vaccines are a plot by Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci to reduce global population "by 10 to 15 percent", that it's a genocide. I just wondered where y'all were at in this thread.

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It didn't have to be this way.

janis b's picture

@Azazello @Azazello

the extreme example of some? Some who chose not or yet to take the vaccine are reasonable people with minds of their own that guide them well, even if differently.

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Azazello's picture

@janis b
Why not ? Why shouldn't I use that example ? That belief is out there, there are people who actually believe that. There are people who believe that masks cause the disease. There's a lot of whacky stuff circulating out there.

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It didn't have to be this way.

janis b's picture

@Azazello

but I just don't care for it being used to represent anyone who hasn't chosen to be vaccinated.

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@Azazello
Yes, and some people seem to actually believe our COVID vaccines are perfectly safe.

Reality, and most opinions here at C99, lie comfortably within these extremes. In a world full of unreliable information, disinformation, blatant propaganda and censorship, how could it be otherwise? More questions than answers, but no shortage of opinions and suspicions.

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Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority. Meanwhile people are dying because of the material self-interest of a few. - Eduardo Giuliani

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

@ovals49 the position of the CDC that these vaccines have caused ZERO deaths so far. Zero.

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@Azazello booster due in the coming year, and unless I come across something to warn me off, and from more than one credible source, I will be getting it. But not these Covid vaccines. Why would I want to inject myself with some funky chemicals that not only are not effective in stopping transmission of the virus but are also unsafe/high risk? I'm not the type to be attracted to bungee jumping or sky diving.

On the sinister plots, I would part company with some here who might be suggesting it if they mean a pre-planned event from the outset, the virus deliberately let loose into the world to reduce the surplus population. My view remains that this was likely a lab-created virus in China but was accidentally released. I don't even assume the Chinese govt was aware of the dangerous nature of the research going on. But we'll likely never know the truth, at least in this lifetime.

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Azazello's picture

@wokkamile
I think they were messing around with a bat virus in Wuhan and it got out accidentally.
That much seems obvious.

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It didn't have to be this way.

snoopydawg's picture

@Azazello

or pushing this:

There are people who believe that masks cause the disease. There's a lot of whacky stuff circulating out there.

It’s a safe place where we can post information and it doesn’t mean people are anti vax or think those who got vaccinated are sheep or worse. Many have said that they got vaccinated but are still looking for information. There is plenty of information on how the vaccines have injured people but is getting ignored by those making the rules. I think that’s more harmful. People are left to find answers on their own and left to pay medical bills too since insurance companies aren’t covering injuries.

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8 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@Azazello any sense of an across-the-board anti-vax attitude here, assuming you mean anti-ALL vaccines. Many here are however opposed to THESE vaccines.

On vaccines killing more than the virus, that's not my understanding. Many more dying or seriously injured from the vaccines than the CDC will admit to*, even in their VAERS reports, yes. Probably the truth of the numbers is closer to what Dr Jessica Rose and Steve Kirsch estimate, which is a whopping 150-200k dead from the vaccines so far.

I do believe a number of vaccine deaths are being deliberately misreported and noted as caused by the virus. This is from a strong pro-vaccine bias or inability to consider the possibility of a link by health care administrators, in addition to a financial incentive to report Covid deaths.

* last I heard, the CDC leader Walensky has denied ANY deaths from the Covid vaccines. This would be a remarkable achievement in the history of vaccines if true, which is of course absurd.

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7 users have voted.
Azazello's picture

@wokkamile
Why do you believe "a whopping 150-200k dead from the vaccines so far" ?

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1 user has voted.

It didn't have to be this way.

@Azazello the research of Dr Rose and Kirsch. Both report a severe underreporting of VAERS numbers, one of them, Kirsch, finds it to be a 41x undercount.

On the passive VAERS system, we start with the real possibility that only 1% of actual cases get reported, per a peer-reviewed study done a decade ago. But Rose and Kirsch work more from the actual death statistics and have found a large gap in the numbers in accounting for excess deaths in the population.

But even if we decide for no good reason to disregard the work of Rose and Kirsch, we are left with the VAERS stats, which are alarming in themselves. Are those to be completely disregarded too?

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7 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@Azazello @wokkamile

that is the nut isn't it?

YMMV, but from my view the vaccines will reduce the likelihood of severe disease. There are risks and if I was highly allergic I would avoid the jabs. That wasn't my case, and I think that is the real issue ...we have to act according to our particular "benefit / risk" analysis. Each to their own...open eyes and equipped with at least semi-reliable data. What other choice have we?

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2 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout @Lookout times from the usual health official sources that the vaccines supposedly reduce risk of serious illness and hospitalization, but since those same sources have been lying and misrepresenting on many other things all along, it's probably wise to have those assertions proven by unbiased sources.

On getting the vaccines generally, I've noticed Dr Malone, previously heard saying only those in high-risk groups -- ie primarily 65+ -- should get them and never children under-18 yo. But now, based on death figures, he's rethinking whether the older group should be getting them.

Dr Rose and Kirsch both believe the vaccination program should have been halted back in the spring when the early VAERS numbers went above 150 deaths. Just 150. And that was the attitude back in 1976 with the Swine Flu vaccine. Back then it was stopped at about 40 deaths and 500 incidents of GBS.

Dr Vanden Bosche firmly believes no mass vaccination program should ever occur during the middle of a pandemic, due to the variant escape issue.

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7 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

He has information on that number and said it’s been verified. I can’t embed it here but I linked it.

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3 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

snoopydawg's picture

@Azazello

There’s plenty of information in it that will answer your question. Or not. I’m not here to push a view just to let us know what other things are happening.

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6 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

CB's picture

@Azazello
in death rate as the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine rate increases? I am serious in trying to understand this anomaly. I know that correlation does not equal causation but this s/b investigated to insure there is not a direct link.

If ADE should develop it usually happens a week or so after vaccines are administered. Why do you think that people are not given vaccination status until 2 weeks (21 days in Canada) after date of vaccination? Should they die during this period would such death be attributed as a non-vaccinated death?

Take note that the vaccine manufacturers had previously failed in previous attempts to create vaccines for SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV due to the ADE that was discovered in animal trials.

Two Different Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE) Risks for SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies

Abstract

COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) disease severity and stages varies from asymptomatic, mild flu-like symptoms, moderate, severe, critical, and chronic disease. COVID-19 disease progression include lymphopenia, elevated proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines, accumulation of macrophages and neutrophils in lungs, immune dysregulation, cytokine storms, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), etc. Development of vaccines to severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), and other coronavirus has been difficult to create due to vaccine induced enhanced disease responses in animal models...
...These two different ADE risks have possible implications for SARS-CoV-2 B-cell vaccines for subsets of populations based on age, cross-reactive antibodies, variabilities in antibody levels over time, and pregnancy. These models place increased emphasis on the importance of developing safe SARS-CoV-2 T cell vaccines that are not dependent upon antibodies.
...
Summary

Given past data on multiple SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV vaccine efforts have failed due to ADE in animal models (75, 81), it is reasonable to hypothesize a similar ADE risk for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies and vaccines. ADE risks may be associated with antibody level (which can wane over time after vaccination) and also if the antibodies are derived from prior exposures to other coronaviruses. In addition, ADE with mast cells likely plays a role in MIS-C for infants and possibly older MIS-C and MIS-A patients. While expanded trophism of SARS-CoV-2 represents a possible ADE risk in the subset of COVID-19 patients with disease progression beyond the mild disease stage.
...

I'm going to wait at least till 2023 when the Pfizer FULLY approved Comirnaty will be released in the US so that I can sue if necessary. It will then fall under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). Until then, the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine remains under the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP). The average award of 29 claims made through CICP were $20,000 - basically to cover funeral and other incidentals.

To see the difference: Comparison of Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)

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7 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@CB

It looks to me as if things could be on the mend. As everyone gathers inside to stay warm it could change, but for now, not so bad...
US COVID death rate
US deaths_3.png

and global rates...

world deaths.png

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3 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Azazello's picture

@CB
I know only this: nearly all the people I know have been vaccinated, mostly with Pfizer, and none have died or even gotten sick. Granted, n= damned small, maybe a dozen or so but these are real people. We may all be stupid, or ill-informed, or manipulated by the MSM, but we got the jab and we're still alive.

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1 user has voted.

It didn't have to be this way.

@Azazello And it worked out well for you and your friends.
I have known a gentleman who died 5 days after his second vaccination. My secretary's aunt died 5 days after her second jab.
I know quite a few people who are fully vaxxed that had little or no issues. I know quite a few people that are still having health problems months after their vaccinations. We are all different, health-wise, and we all have our own reasons to have the degree of hesitancy that we have.
None of us are stupid.

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8 users have voted.
janis b's picture

@on the cusp

or arrogant enough to believe, only we alone are right.

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5 users have voted.

@janis b is putting information in it for everyone else to see and evaluate.
If nothing will convince you to get the jab, no point in reading this OT.
If you have been vaccinated and are satisfied with it, read the articles and links if you wish. But there is no need to get into this OT if it is offensive to you either way, or especially if it makes you uncomfortable with your prior decision to get vaxxed.
There is such an unnecessary political aspect to this. Unvaxxed are Trumpers, vaxxed are liberals. At least the politicians themselves started that meme. That is not true to the point of being ridiculous.
I can say I am extremely offended by the mandates for all Federal employees, except elected officials.

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7 users have voted.
janis b's picture

@on the cusp

or 'you' in general?

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1 user has voted.

@janis b You, shortened version of You All.
I did mean general, not specific.
We have a pretty awful governor, Gregg Abbott. The lawyer side of him totally rejected vaccine mandates in the state. Somehow, a hospital system in Houston that was sued prevailed in their employee mandate. Not sure of the particulars of the ruling. I think it had to do with the initial employment contract rather than government control. Abbott either lost or didn't intervene in the suit.

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4 users have voted.
CB's picture

@Azazello @Azazello

The death rate is currently slightly increasing. You can go here and adjust the date slider on the bottom of the graph:
COVID-19 vaccinations vs. COVID-19 deaths, Dec 1, 2020 to Oct 16, 2021

There have been 493,139,295 vaccine doses given to date in the US and a total death count from COVID-19 of 744,546. A death toll of 150,000 from the vaccine due to ADE would not stand out in the least. The thing is that we originally expected the infection and death rates to decrease as the vaccine rates went up and achieve herd immunity. But that is not to be the case due to mutations, breakthroughs and infectiousness. It looks like this will be another situation like the influenza virus - yearly jab.

If the majority of deaths from the vaccine were caused by ADE the deaths would be attributed to COVID-19. That's because the vaccine (edit) COULD make the disease much, much more lethal than it would otherwise be. If I would get the vaccine, I would get an anti-body test first to ensure I hadn't ALREADY have contracted COVID.

By the way, the US has a death rate of 2,232 per million which is 17th. highest out of 233 countries/regions on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/. Russia is 1,529 per million which is 48th. and has a vaccination rate in the lower 30% region.

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5 users have voted.

@Azazello who had the 2d jab 5 months ago just had surgery to remove a tumor in her ovaries; no prior issues. My first thought when I heard the news was the account of Dr Malone in a June interview who reported that the injection was spreading throughout the body with particular accumulation in the ovaries.

Connection with the vaccines? How do you prove it? And this one is very likely not going to be reported to VAERS. But I suspect there will be many such cases of major health issues occurring months after the jabs.

Similarly my housemate from Moscow, the KGB spy, enthusiastically got the Pfizer jabs, but a few months after the 2d one she began having unusual neuromuscular symptoms, which she attributes to stress. Perhaps but I'm skeptical. I think she just doesn't want to admit she was wrong about the vaccine.

Are these vaccines a case of playing Russian Roulette, with 15-20 chambers instead of 6?

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4 users have voted.

@CB
that may address your question. He and Nobel Prize winner Luc Montignier from early on in the pandemic decried the strategy of “vaccinating in the midst of a pandemic” as a sure way to produce mutant strains that would soon evade the protection offered by our vaccines. These warnings were ignored, and we now appear to be to be suffering the consequences of an ill advised, one dimensional, vaccine only, approach to vanquishing the SARS Cov-2 virus.

Vanden Bossche’s website has a wealth of information, some of which may speak directly to your questions.

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6 users have voted.

Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority. Meanwhile people are dying because of the material self-interest of a few. - Eduardo Giuliani

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

CB's picture

@ovals49
From that site:

Those who’ve become addicted to these comparative statistics seem to forget that gauging the success of human intervention in a pandemic is about measuring success in a dynamic phenomenon, and that snapshots taken under certain conditions/settings do not provide information about the overall evolutionary trend and likely health outcome of a pandemic. The latter can only be monitored by measuring temporal changes of parameters that are relevant to public and individual health.

That's what I have been doing for the past several months - measuring temporal changes.

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2 users have voted.
CB's picture

@ovals49
Look like you've shown us the problem:

Keep looking at snapshots and you’ll never see where this pandemic is headed... until it reaches its final destination
...
As the evolutionary dynamics of the virus in highly vaccinated countries/regions are now placing huge immune selection pressure on the viral fitness landscape, it is fair to postulate that the highly diversified spectrum of evolutionary trajectories of this pandemic seen in different highly vaccinated countries will now rapidly narrow down to a more uniform path characterized by the following, prognostically unfavorable features:

  • Waning of vaccine efficacy as mirrored by a relative increase of morbidity and mortality rates in vaccinees over time
  • A relative increase of morbidity and mortality rates over time in vaccinees as compared to the unvaccinated
  • A relative increase in suboptimal immunity over time in both the vaccinees and unvaccinated individuals (due to diminished vaccine efficacy and suboptimal naturally elicited Abs, respectively), which may translate into a relative increase in cases of ADE (Ab-dependent enhancement of Covid-19 disease pathology)
  • A relative increase in the base-line infectivity rate over time
  • Continuing waves of increased infection, morbidity, and mortality rates

...

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5 users have voted.

They all seem brainwashed to me. I am not one to take sides other than people should have the right to make their own decision about if it's a good thing or a bad. They should be given the facts both good and bad. They should not have to comb other countries news because ours seems to think propaganda is a better choice. Our government is very disrespectful and seems to think we have the collective IQ of french toast.
I drive a lot and listen to news radio since I no longer do television. I have a choice of covid radio constantly telling me to get the vaccine or covid radio telling me not to get the vaccine. I choose none of the above and listen to a local station that tells about the news the bigger stations no longer report and interview local business owners and school superintendents about how they are having to adjust for covid mandates, how things are going for them and so on no brainwashed blaming the otherside and calling them stupid. No annoying drama, half truths or outright fiction to be heard. It's a breath of fresh air to hear about the overturned semi on 101, sad but true.

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5 users have voted.
janis b's picture

@pswaterspirit

Here’s another channel to switch to …

https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/the-rehearsal-is-over

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2 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@janis b

But it will never be safe to be brave. Never.

If not now, when? If not I, who?

Yep it’s time to make a decision. Mine has been made and it’s the best choice for me. Others might want to make a different choice. It’s up to them alone as is mine.

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6 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

janis b's picture

@snoopydawg

that Auckland will spend another 2 weeks in lockdown. My wish and slight expectation is that it might encourage people to adopt more bravery.

I guess we'll see ...

Be well snoopy and Sam

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6 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@janis b

Are there no protests over the lockdowns? What are the case numbers there? Sorry you are going through this. Sam and are in lockdown for 3 more weeks and she has cabin fever.

I was busy reading something and looked up and she’s sitting on the edge of the couch 1foot from me and staring hard at me. The thought bubble above her head said "FEED ME CHICKEN!" I cracked up..the look.

Be well.

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5 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.