Open Thread WE 1 SEP 21


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"The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion."
-- Molly Ivins
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“Doubts are good. Confusion is excellent. Questions are awesome.
All these are attempts to expand the wisdom of mind.”
― Manoj Arora, Dream On
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Welcome to today's version of your open thread. Working on our present state of affairs. Came up with a theory as to how we arrived at this particular quandary. Seems we have been fed a steady diet of illusion, contradictions and half truths. The basic concepts of the things that supposedly make the US better: like freedom, liberty, and justice do not seem to hold up under close scrutiny. Fantasy and delusion are more akin to the fabric of this culture. Somehow the ideas of independence and bombs bursting in the air have become mixed up. As have other issues like wealth and strength. Confusion as to what those basic concepts are in principle versus practice abounds.

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Problems cannot be solved by the same level of awareness that created them.
--Albert Einstein
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Ye shall know the truth, and the truth will make you mad.
--Aldous Huxley
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If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple that we couldn't.
--Emerson M. Pugh

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Perhaps in our seclusion, rational thought will sort out a better way forward.
Jump right in with your divergent views!

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Credits:
Twisted copper wire basket by Susan Blake, Canberra, Australia
https://sallyblake.com

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harmony.jpeg
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Raggedy Ann's picture

Just in case someone doesn't go to janisb's essay, I'd like to repost her article here:
https://nzdsos.com/2021/08/31/the-cost-of-fear/

Enjoy the day! Pleasantry

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8 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Raggedy Ann

Have it cued up now.

Enjoy your day!

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5 users have voted.

@Raggedy Ann

Can't seem to copy/paste from it, but this portion is pertinent to today's topic.

Who to trust? Where to look? What is right?
The people are rightly confused.

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8 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

@QMS
in order to continue distraction. In order to carry out the agenda. Evil.

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8 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Azazello's picture

@Raggedy Ann
Are you saying it's demonic ? Is Satan involved ?

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4 users have voted.

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

enhydra lutris's picture

@Azazello

to rant on and on forever, they well surely go straight to hell the instant Jesus returns next month.

be well and have a good one

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7 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Azazello . I didn't know you were an abrasive person - I never took you for that. Please don't respond to anything I post from now forward. I don't need your brand of negativity in my life. If you disagree with me, keep it to yourself.

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4 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Azazello's picture

@Raggedy Ann @Raggedy Ann
I was just asking.

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3 users have voted.

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Raggedy Ann's picture

@Azazello . I'm not some computer bot but an actual human. Think before you trash.

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3 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

orlbucfan's picture

@Azazello a brain exists. I live around these yahoos and I’m SICK of them and their aggressive stupidity! That image of the woven basket is terrific, QMS. Rec’d!! Smile

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0 users have voted.

Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Raggedy Ann

Was anyone able to get through and summarize?

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5 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven

Yes, it loaded up fine for me, just couldn't do any copy/paste action with it.
Short version: it was written by a civilian group questioning the motives of
published numbers in NZ regarding Covid. Bottom line -- there have been more deaths caused by the vaccine than by the virus. The report went into great detail about the experimental nature of the vax,
the pressure on healthcare professionals to withhold information on the side effects of the drug (like death), and general background information about intimidating the population into conformity.

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9 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

@QMS !

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3 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Azazello's picture

@QMS

In NZ, More People Have Died From the Covid-19 Injection, Than Have Died From the Disease

I saw no evidence for that assertion.
There was this:

When assessing adverse events to a new therapy, all events are considered to be due to the new therapy unless proven otherwise.

So yeah, I suppose that if you think all excess deaths in NZ must be from the injection then you've got a point, but I should think that the burden of proof lies with the person making the wacky claim.

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6 users have voted.

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

enhydra lutris's picture

@Azazello

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4 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris Please see my response to Az.

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1 user has voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@Azazello should be right there in medical records. The absence of other cases means the jab was the cause. Anybody could challenge the presumption of cause of death in 30 minutes of research.
All this dictate means is a starting proposition, then take it from there.
The negative you can't prove is when there is no "there" there.

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4 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

On this date in history ..

1882 --
The first Labor Day is observed in New York City by the Carpenters and Joiners Union. Smile

1904 --
Helen Keller graduates with honors from Radcliffe College. Smile

1914 --
Passenger Pigeons become extinct.
Martha, the last Passenger Pigeon known to man, died at the Cincinnati Zoo, Cincinnati, Ohio effectively making Passenger Pigeons extinct. Sad

1998 --
On National Day, Vietnam releases 5,000 prisoners, including political dissidents. Smile

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5 users have voted.

One of the personal decisions I made back during the beginning of the AIDS crisis that's served me exceptionally well over all these years was to tune out everyone who's too cocksure about any subject. Knowitallitis is a tragic disease of the personality, and it can be contagious in the herd, especially when people are freaked out, so I try to stay away from the afflicted.

Beliefs are neat, cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth.
--Bill Hicks

Beliefs are easy. Knowledge is...more Sisyphean. I try to keep what I think of as "knowledge" arranged in a "well so far the best data I can get suggests" folder.

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13 users have voted.

@Reverend Jane Ignatowski

The seeds of discordance are being sown with more density.

Knowitallitis is a tragic disease

Too much conflicting information, heavily concentrated, seems to
reinforce divisions within the population.

Thanks for sharing!

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9 users have voted.

@QMS

Two of the items on the short list of Things I'm Reasonably Sure About are: 1) we are awash in both intentional and accidental wrong information; and 2) there's no crisis leadership won't monstrously mismanage in order to both enrich itself as well as strengthen its own leash-hand.

And thanks for the OT, QMS! Hoping everyone is well as can be, all things considered.

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13 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

is much of the art of science.

Sadly not all evidence is given equal footing...some is blasted out of the MSM megaphone... other info suppressed and even disappeared.

WMD in Iraq and Julian being tortured for revealing war crimes are good examples of the two extremes.

The farther you shy away from the MSM message, the more isolated you become in your views.

Evidence changes, and we too must change, but when the dogma of the day becomes belief rather than best evidence people refuse to change their views.

Probably the most difficult aspect of science is to cast off long held views when it is contradicted by new data. The other big issue is corporate funding of research confounding real understanding in order to promote more profit.

So here we are...caught in a web of beliefs without the ability to think our way out of a wet paper bag.

Be well and take care!

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11 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout

Somewhat parallel ..

Fitting in ..

Brains are survival engines, not truth detectors. If self deception promotes fitness, the brain lies and stops noticing irrelevant things. Truth matters less than fitness. By now, you don't experience the world as it exists at all. You experience a simulation built from assumptions.

From Blindsight by Peter Watts

Good luck!

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9 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@QMS

about guard dogs vs donkeys to protect sheep or goats. A donkey's sense of self preservation is strong and they will run from a pack of predators if they feel threatened, dogs are loyal to their flock and will fight to the death.

Also similar to Upton Sinclair's saying...

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

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9 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

usefewersyllables's picture

@Lookout

They are great guard animals, and you haven't lived until you've seen one take on a coyote. We had one big old gelding (retired pack llama, probably 400lb) who regarded it as the highest form of sport.

He'd position himself between the coyote and whatever prey had attracted it (usually a newborn cria on the ground). He'd then turn his back on the coyote, munching peacefully on the grass, seemingly completely ignoring it. When the coyote had finally snuck up within about 10 feet of him, he'd abruptly rear up, pivot 180deg on his back legs in a lightning-quick kung-fu move, and come down right in the center of the coyote's back with both front feet.

Squish.

And then he'd go back to peacefully munching the grass, as if nothing had happened. I'd go out later and clean up the dead coyote, and give the llama a little extra grain. After about 6 months of this, the coyotes would no longer even set foot on our property- they would carefully walk the fenceline, just on the outside, and go look for easier prey elsewhere.

Watching him hunt coyotes always reminded me of that great line from "The World According To Garp", about the WWII ball-turret gunner whose demise came "with all the disproportionate force of a tree falling on a grape"...

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14 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Lookout's picture

@usefewersyllables

Thanks.

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7 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@usefewersyllables

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5 users have voted.

NYCVG

@usefewersyllables Burros do similar cool attacks. Every ranch around has one or the other.

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3 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@Lookout and eyes wide open and we will see more and more

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4 users have voted.

NYCVG

ggersh's picture

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7 users have voted.

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

enhydra lutris's picture

Dice

Go to Flickr
select no known copyright restrictions
search for dice
Get more or less random shit

search for fuzzy dice
Ger almost exclusively some damn band, the one that pops up at the bottom of the Dice scroll.

Question: Is that fuzzy logic in action??

Whatever.

Always remember, there is no such thing as "some" randomness.

Also:

Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.

~~~      Michel de Montaigne

(Bertrand Russell has expounded at greater length on the matter, but that should suffice)

A taffy machine generated completely deterministic action, until you put some taffy in it, that is. Look on these Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

be well and have a good one

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4 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday allowed a restrictive Texas law to go into effect that criminalizes abortion at six weeks and deputizes citizens to enforce the ban.The court took no action, however, making the bill law as of 12 a.m. local time.

The SC did not address the ACLU or anyone else trying to stop this abomination to take effect. This could have repercussions on other issues if it is not rescinded. Stay tuned folks.......It's going to get bumpy.

For some reason the excerpt isn't showing on my computer. Sorry bout that. Read at the source.

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9 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

enhydra lutris's picture

@snoopydawg

Sucks, but the reasonable people have at least another shot at it.

be well and have a good one

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5 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@snoopydawg when women had to go out of state on "vacation" to obtain an abortion, and those helping them had to help them get there on the sly.
Texas is pretty shitty, although it has gorgeous scenery, and the people are renown for their friendliness.

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4 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

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11 users have voted.

@humphrey That slogan would not look right on a BMW.

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3 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

@humphrey

spare tire.

be well and have a good one

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0 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --