I am having a bit of a laugh at the moment

I'm just loving watching people follow the MSMs lead about all things Clinton.

We are talking about one of the most embedded establishment candidates of all time.

Their personal multimillion have come from the most powerful corporations on the planet and most of them as pro-rata thank you notes [that's what speaking tours are].

Then many ex-progressives have jumped on the bandwagon when the MSMs writers echoing their corporate masters needs and go on the offensive. It reminds me of the bail out of the banks, get those that can least afford it to bail out their masters/do their work for them.

I just love watching progressive defending the corrupt and vile super-pac system, oh noes, the candidate does not have any say on how it is spent, they cry. I remember some of the outrage over Citizens United from the liberal blogosphere, now it is all just fine and dandy. Money has no effect on Democrats! So all that now turns out to be faux outrage and just more bullshit. It was more a whine about who would get their hands on the cash first, they were worried Republicans would beat them to the feeding troughs.

Campaign finance reform, hahahahaha, ha, forget it, even the "base" has sold themselves out without actually getting paid.

But, but you need gazillions to beat the other lot, well since are both equally funded by near enough the same people one has to dig deeper, if money counts for naught, why spend it in the first place?

If the Republican nominate Trump I will vote Clinton. If they play some games and actually nominate another establishment figure it is highly unlikely that I will vote in the presidential section. I will vote for and contribute to candidates down the ballot who actually merit support.

Those are my thoughts today.

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detroitmechworks's picture

I just can't watch the ex-progressives anymore. It's like watching a bunch of monkey flinging their shit at each other. Even watching, you're liable to get hit with it.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

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Redstella's picture

Were defending Bill. I remember people saying it was just a blow job. I remember feeling very uncomfortable. I am not in the mood to defend Hillary's grifting. It matters. Especially when there is a fantastic candidate we can vote for. Who says the things I want to hear. He even mentioned Native Peoples. So yeah WOW. But for the Clintons, Nah.

That is my thought today.

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It's about time that stopped, when I read this stuff I want a shower afterwards

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lotlizard's picture

Funny how nobody but supposed "RW fringe" or "CT" sources are even willing to ponder that question.

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Thumb's picture

FBI director Comey, the same one leading the current FBI investigation on Hillary, was on the Marc Rich case and was pissed when he heard Bill had pardoned him and a number of others who had donated to him. There was a recent Time article that discussed some of this. Very interesting stuff. I posted it at TOP and right away the long knives were out for Comey saying he's a Republican at heart who won't give Hillary a fair investigation (a sign?).

Oh please, Karma be a bitch!

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

How much did Denise Rich give to the Clintons?
Will answer your question. And continued to give, lots of money.

We really should have listened to Bob Herbert then, still can now: paraphrase: Cut THEM loose!
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/26/opinion/in-america-cut-him-loose.html

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Since they've soiled it, we need something new to call ourselves. I know we are DFH pinko Commies, but somehow, none of those seem like "the one".

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

the European definition with respect to liberal. There has been a bit of a kerfuffle as to who is or is not a progressive, whereas I am pretty sure that in most cases they should be using incrementalist.

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Cassiodorus's picture

who likes to polish her or his image with nice humanist thoughts.

https://cassiodorusblog.wordpress.com/2016/04/02/what-if-barack-obama-we...

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

lunachickie's picture

(Fuck. Er, sorry, didn't mean to shout)

I've been saying since 2010 that the next thing the party of alleged Democrats' leadership would try to do is misappropriate the term "progressive". And here we are.

Those lying bastards. I will NEVER cede that label to them. No one should.

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fuck what they think that means

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Damnit Janet's picture

For years, I've called myself a LIBERAL because I didn't like what Democrats had caved into.

I will never vote Republican. Which means I won't vote for HRC either.

So glad to see your strong voice here lunachickie.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

lunachickie's picture

So nice to be here, unfettered by the specter of censorship (self or otherwise).

Smile

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That's why people still believe in a "liberal" media.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

detroitmechworks's picture

Because if there's one thing I can't stand it's people taking themselves too seriously.

We're Freaking Pirates! ARRR, One Percenters! We're here for yer booty! Keep it nice and civil and nobody gets hurt!
Stand and Deliver! And all that!

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

detroitmechworks's picture

seems to be the skull and crossbones...

I can fully endorse this song. Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

shaharazade's picture

it's insulting to the progressives of the past who fought for worker's and human rights and all that jazz. this modern version came around about the time when the Bushies made liberal a dirty word. I'm not a progressive, I haven't got a political label at this point. I guess I'm a purist far lefty DFH. I used to be a flaming liberal but even liberal isn't what it used to be. Now ad ays we have all these neoliberals and liberals of the European style. How sad not to be able to self identify with any of the terms the sicko strategists and politico's have defined as the political spectrum and use as a way to gauge your direction.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

detroitmechworks's picture

Oh, Party Stalwarts, eh, very nice. And How did they get that, eh? By exploiting the 2 party system! By hanging on to a state of imperialist dogma, which perpetuates the economic and social differences, in our society! If there's ever gonna be any progress...

OOOH! Denis! There's some lovely Sex Scandals down here!

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

They even talk about oath-taking.

They sound more like proto-fascists with each passing day.

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Bisbonian's picture

re-pressed.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

jamess's picture

The Real Progressives

vs.

The Campaign Progressives

???

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davidincleveland's picture

letting so-calleds steal and tarnish an honorable label. If I wouldn't accept that from him, you may be sure that 50 years of right wing lies about what I am haven't either swayed or frightened me. Paraphrasing and adding on to what a horrible human once said, "Liberal yesterday, liberal today, liberal tomorrow, liberal forever." Those aren't ex-progs at the OP; they were and are authoritarians who have been claiming 'progressive' values (in some cases for decades) falsely.

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Cassiodorus's picture

than Cruz, and even than Clinton (see e.g. foreign policy) and his much hyped "racism/ sexism/ bullying" is pretty much WWE showtime crap.

Clinton is much smarter, and much more Republican, than the Republicans. If I'm going to have Republican in the White House, I'd rather have stupid, the easier to attack.

At any rate, I've argued many times that the "Left" in America is for the most part a mirage, and that corporate conservatives here like to make great show of their liberal humanism before they stab you in the back.

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

lunachickie's picture

We're gonna have a real problem when that convention happens. Because a whole bunch of Americans believe he's for real and he's not. And it's going to get seriously ugly at that point.

It's funny that Trump is further left on many issues than Cruz, and even than Clinton (see e.g. foreign policy) and his much hyped "racism/ sexism/ bullying" is pretty much WWE showtime crap.

This is all WWF showtime crap. The more I think about it, the more I have to find feasible that Bill Clinton and Donald Trump cooked this whole thing up as a lark to make Hillary look 'sane' and 'wonderful'--not realizing that A) millions of GOP voters would actually take Trump seriously and B ) that she'd have a challenger, let alone a nice Jewish septuagenarian sitting Senator, hailing from the most progressive, yet very tiny, state in the Union, one who got really popular in a short period of time.

At any rate, lots of folks are already voicing this besides me, so it's hardly my own little theory. But there's no way Trump gets the nod. They'll shoehorn John Kasich in there if someone has to go to jail over it to get it done.

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Cruz or Clinton.

Edited to add that I won't be voting for any of these candidates.

I have a crush on Bernie AND Jane. (yep, one of those)

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

Hillbilly Dem's picture

Cruz. We know he's a cross between Joe McCarthy and Senator Stillson who became POTUS in Walken's vision in The Dead Zone ("The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, hallelujah!").

Kasich. Anti-union. Anti-woman. They're selling him as the "reasonable Republican". Not unlike the last sell job on a guy you'd like to have a beer with... George W. Bush.

Hillary. Well, she's Hillary. Sadly, Trump is more palatable

I would probably vote for Hillary over Cruz...out of sheer terror. Other than that? As Susan Sarandon said "We'll see."

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Grannus's picture

who Trump runs with. He's liable to get tired of the gig a year or two in and quit and we'll get his VP.

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snoopydawg's picture

That Bill asked Trump to run for that exact reason.
While it would be a disaster for this country if he was elected, it would be damned funny if he beats Hillary.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Shahryar's picture

when I say Trump I mean Trump, Cruz, Romney, Ryan or any other guy they trot out in a brokered convention...

should that happen we will find ourselves appearing to be on the same side as all of those people who like Her Ladyship, just as we appeared to be on their side when Bushy was Prez.

I don't think I will ever again feel aligned with those people. The question was going to be "can we make peace with them and work with them?" I've already answered in my head in the negative.

They broke it, didn't they? From the Pelosi non-anything (no impeachment, no investigations) to the Obama double cross (no public option, Summers/Geithner/Emanuel/some Monsanto guy, some Comcast guy) and now the embrace of big money, fracking, eternal war....all the things we seemed to be united against which are now just fine. If a Repub comes in, does the same things, I'll just want to spit on Democrats who oppose the new Prez because their opposition will be a fraud. They're like a bad appliance. Why should I be forced to use it? Man, I'm taking it back and never buying that brand again!

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And don't forget Shillarys globe trotting promotion for fracking and the fucking TPP. Are you shitting me? IF she gets elected, she's going all in for those and probably KXL to boot.

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shaharazade's picture

We ain't got time for that now. I will not vote for Hillary. Fuck that shit. I'll write in Bernie. I refuse to have my vote extorted by fear of The Hairball. Who gives a rats ass what the RW loonies disguised as Democrat's over there say? This must be the place as we are free to not give in to fear and don't have to follow leaders and watch the parking meters.

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how far right she goes if she wins the primary. I vote in Vermont so there will hardly be a GOP resurgence there.

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to the right for me. But, mostly, it's that she's a criminal, and a liar, and an all around horrible person.

I won't be changing my mind, I have researched too much.

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

shaharazade's picture

in the GE doesn't mean a thing. There is no connection between what pols say and what their real agenda and direction is. Kissing Kissenger in the primary is a good indication of which direction she moving in. It's not like we haven't seen what she's about from her bloody years as SoS. There is nothing that she can say that changes what she advocates for, represents and implements. This woman should not have power she's a freaking stone killer,disaster cappie who want's to rule the world, right now

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into big brouhahas are nothing at all -- just excuses for the press to get all excited and make a lot of noise and put the candidates in their place.

HRC's Kissinger reference was one of the biggest actual gaffes I've ever seen in my life -- an moment of honesty in which a politician reveals something both very true, and very horrifying.

The press should have crucified her for that. It should have been the end of her candidacy, and indeed, the end of the Clintons' influence with the Democratic base.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

I will vote for Bernie.
I will never vote for the former SoS.
I hope she goes to jail, it is what she deserves (though I think she won't, because the Democratic party is too corrupt.)

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flowerfarmer's picture

I just did a very light search on the legality of write ins for a presidential election.
There are a few states that outright forbid it and others that require some sort of permission from each state. Since Bernie is running in a recognized party and already qualified to run for the presidency, there was no info on how that would play out.
In states where the vote is disallowed, ballots are just tossed aside.
We need a constitutional lawyer to make a clear statement on the viability of this option.
I intend to write in for Bernie in New Hampshire, if necessary, regardless.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

NonnyO's picture

Your link saved me having to do some research on a write-in candidate in MN - I'm also a Minnesotan, planned to vote for Bernie if he's already on the ballot, or write in his name if it's not.
Smile

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Should he not get the nomination and refuse to request the write in spot.
I want to know if there are other avenues to allowing a Bernie write in vote should he not make the request required by the listed rules. A petition or ruling by the SoS or something?
Also, I need to know if, by writing in Bernie, it would discount my entire ballot in November, or if it's treated the same as leaving the Presidential vote blank and the rest of my ballot still counts.
Of course, we're a bit ahead of ourselves (anxious as we are).
And for me it don't matter at all, I'll be voting for Senator B. Sanders, I just get curious about how stuff works sometimes.

Oh.. You're welcome Smile

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

Hillbilly Dem's picture

good to see you over here, flowerfarmer! Smile

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

flowerfarmer's picture

Thanks Hillbilly Dem....I joined pretty much on opening day here but have been more concentrated on supporting those brave souls beating back the bullshit at TOP.
It's nice to have a non-agressive and peaceful place to hang out.

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shaharazade's picture

I don't think they count them however. In the past when I got disgusted with my choice I would write in Jerry Brown as he was an excellent governor moonbeam when I was a youngun in CA. I supported him in the 1992 Dem. Primary when he challenged Slick Willie. I voted for Jill Stein in 2012 and was shocked that she got less then 1% of the vote. The Greens in the US are so lame and useless. I don't care if they count it they should but even if it's throwing away my vote it's going to be for Bernie. Perhaps Berners should coordinate in the General and have a massive write drive in which if nothing else would get their attention. If enough people refused to give their consent to Hillary the Hun it might hasten the death of the 'New Democratic' party.

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flowerfarmer's picture

I am fully onboard with this idea, shah.
My vote for Bernie will never be wasted, whether it is counted or not.

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Bisbonian's picture

could be some sort of coordinated write in campaign. Plan A is still fighting for the nomination.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Gerrit's picture

liberal and progressive.

A liberal is a capitalist and a progressive is a democratic socialist. It's that simple.

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

progressiveness. Incrementalists socially and downright pirates when it comes to pillaging the wealth of the nation

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shaharazade's picture

socialist liberal in the old school definition of liberal not in the Paul Krugman capitalist brand of liberal. 'The pump don't work cause the vandals stole the handle'. Actually they stole all handles and made up their own definitions on a sliding scale of mass deception with no direction that doesn't lead right back to them.

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ArizonaProgressive's picture

The right had tried to warp and twist the word socialist and the fake left has tried to warp and twist the word progressive for years. And if the current crop of Democrats in office are called liberal that word had lost its meaning as well.

One of the better aspects of Bernie's running is that we finally get a chance to explain to people, on a national level,what democratic socialism means.

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jamess's picture

for the pragmatic, incremental 'good'

-- then you know someone has sold out somebody, somewhere.

... for the {cough} 'greater good'.

(or is that the 'lessor evil' ?

I keep getting those two battle cries mixed up.)

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shaharazade's picture

so called incremental progress in most cases lead backwards not forward. I remember a list of Obama's accomplishments that was nothing but lauding his treachery. Lilly Ledbetter = progress for women ? I think not. Being able to sue corporations for your past abuses (good luck with the TPP?) is not any better then declaring women now can break corporate glass ceilings if their as big a bad ass crook as I am. It's all double speak and not worth engaging in.

Two different realities at play one that the masters of deception pump out and one you have to go looking for. The good news is that the truth is out there and thanks to the world wide web you can still find it. Many do not want to know it's painful to realize you've been bamboozled and have to look at the nature of their game. Or in some cases you may like their game as this is how it has always been and always will be. Amen. How is this pragmatic? It's not unless you say screw you I got mine.

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

"Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil."

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Shahryar's picture

or perhaps Jill Stein. If Bernie does not get the nomination I won't vote for Hillary. If Bernie endorses Hillary I won't write-in Bernie.

So it would come down to Stein and Debs. Debs' views are closer to my own but his candidacy does have a serious drawback.

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telebob's picture

a critique of the Greenpeace takedown of Hillary's fossil fuel contributors. (You can't prove that I found it at "that" place!) The gist was that $2.5M dollars of that came from a Hedge Fund manager that didn't only invest in fossil fuels, but other things, including alternative energy.

Excuse me? Your defense is that the rich-ass yayhoo who gave as much to your campaign as 90,000 Bernie supporters is only PARTLY invested in oil? Yeah, cuz what we really need is some kind of kickback contract to tell us who to buy our solar panels from. P'shaw.

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If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind. -R. Hunter/J. Garcia

Lenzabi's picture

their disconnect to reality does boggle my mind, and folks consider me crazy! Blum 3

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So long, and thanks for all the fish

lunachickie's picture

deliberate disconnect. Almost instantaneously, you'll no longer be concerned with being considered crazy or not., and it'll all make a whole lot more sense Wink

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davidincleveland's picture

Campaign finance reform, hahahahaha, ha, forget it, even the "base" has sold themselves out without actually getting paid.

Supporters of HRC (in or out of cyberspace) who are actually advocating for her during the primary aren't the base of our party. They are simply Hillary partisans either because they themselves are third way types, or for other undemocratic reasons of one sort or another. Both endorsing supers and blog activists have invested anything from wallets to egos in her occupying the oval office. They are a small enough percentage of all Democrats to be a minority even on a blog which has been set up as a safe haven for them. The actual party base is demonstrating a bias to Bernie; first they learn about him and then they love him.

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Grannus's picture

make sure the voting laws in your state don't let them throw out the entire ballot as spoiled. There are many down-ballot people and issues that need your vote also.

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