The day the riot happened. I wonder if some have changed their minds as more information has come out. How many people know that in addition to the 2 capitol police who have died, 60 of them injured, 10 of them still in the hospital 2 days later? The metal bars some rioters carried were used to hit police. It will be interesting to see if opinions have changed as more information and videos have been released.
While 59% of voters who are aware of the events at the Capitol perceive them as being more violent than more peaceful (28%), the opposite is true of Republicans. By 58% to 22%, Republicans see the goings on as more peaceful than more violent.
The day the riot happened. I wonder if some have changed their minds as more information has come out. How many people know that in addition to the 2 capitol police who have died, 60 of them injured, 10 of them still in the hospital 2 days later? The metal bars some rioters carried were used to hit police. It will be interesting to see if opinions have changed as more information and videos have been released.
Warning: violent video. This footage shows rioters viciously beating police at the Capitol entrance. I hadn’t seen this clip, via @Storyful, until now. pic.twitter.com/21gcefdYPx
There is another longer video in the thread that has a closer shot of the action. Looked like they dragged one cop down the stairs.
The day the riot happened. I wonder if some have changed their minds as more information has come out. How many people know that in addition to the 2 capitol police who have died, 60 of them injured, 10 of them still in the hospital 2 days later? The metal bars some rioters carried were used to hit police. It will be interesting to see if opinions have changed as more information and videos have been released.
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12 users have voted.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
and the video the one i alluded to earlier in WW. Everyone should view this horrible atrocity, see the photos and the close-up video you mention and let history and the truth stand and not be white-washed.
Link to twitter and see the evidence in this one thread. Caution, this may not be the assault that killed the Capitol policemen as that was apparently inside with a fire extinguisher, but apparently several officers are still in critical care.
Warning: violent video. This footage shows rioters viciously beating police at the Capitol entrance. I hadn’t seen this clip, via @Storyful, until now. pic.twitter.com/21gcefdYPx
and the video the one i alluded to earlier in WW. Everyone should view this horrible atrocity, see the photos and the close-up video you mention and let history and the truth stand and not be white-washed.
Link to twitter and see the evidence in this one thread. Caution, this may not be the assault that killed the Capitol policemen as that was apparently inside with a fire extinguisher, but apparently several officers are still in critical care.
Imo, this is the fruit of ignoring 25,000 lies.
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10 users have voted.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
there is a lot of hate on social media, unfortunately on c99 as well.
Having said that, i sense you know little of me, not that you should, mind you; but in my formative college years, i became a supporter of Malcolm X after reading all his published works. Marched with Hoffman and so on--not exactly the pedigree of a cop lover. Been an activist all these years. In truth, i've never understood why people choose to don uniforms of any kind; but, somewhat ironically, i made a living putting on costumes.
And perhaps the tears also flow in realizing where we have arrived in our society.
Your question answered in short.
#1.2.1.1.1
No snark here, but, honestly, I'm surprised, what with all the hatred for cops here.
Warning: violent video. This footage shows rioters viciously beating police at the Capitol entrance. I hadn’t seen this clip, via @Storyful, until now. pic.twitter.com/21gcefdYPx
@BayAreaLefty
Some things are wrong whoever does them. Notice how protest about Gitmo died down when it was Obama torturing prisoners? Whatever your party, if you condone law breaking as long as it's your side, you are a barbarian.
anything related to Obama's term. As you note: it's not really relevant who is perpetrating the violence. The motive and ends do matter, though. It's pretty okay with me to violently oppose, say, Nazi Germany or modern China (but I repeat myself).
#1.2.2
Some things are wrong whoever does them. Notice how protest about Gitmo died down when it was Obama torturing prisoners? Whatever your party, if you condone law breaking as long as it's your side, you are a barbarian.
Approximately 18 percent of Republicans support the pro-Trump rioters who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday in opposition to Congress’s certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s win, according to a PBS NewsHour/Marist poll released Friday.
The survey, which polled more than 800 adults the day after the riots, also found that despite some support among GOP members, most Americans, approximately 88 percent, either opposed or strongly opposed the mob’s actions. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533452-poll-18-percent-of-republicans-...
.....
67 Percent of Americans Blame Trump for Inciting Deadly Capitol Riot, Poll Says
Most Americans believe Donald Trump is responsible for provoking the violence that shook Capitol Hill last week, according to a recent national poll.
The survey, conducted by ABC News and Ipsos, collected responses from 570 U.S. adults between Friday and Saturday. It found that more than two-thirds of the poll's participants—67 percent—blame the sitting president for Wednesday's riots. Of that group, 52 percent of respondents said they believe Trump shoulders "a great deal" of liability, while another 15 percent said "a good amount" of fault, on his part, https://www.newsweek.com/67-percent-americans-blame-trump-inciting-deadl...
Appears you are on to something, Granma
The day the riot happened. I wonder if some have changed their minds as more information has come out. How many people know that in addition to the 2 capitol police who have died, 60 of them injured, 10 of them still in the hospital 2 days later? The metal bars some rioters carried were used to hit police. It will be interesting to see if opinions have changed as more information and videos have been released.
Approximately 18 percent of Republicans support the pro-Trump rioters who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday in opposition to Congress’s certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s win, according to a PBS NewsHour/Marist poll released Friday.
The survey, which polled more than 800 adults the day after the riots, also found that despite some support among GOP members, most Americans, approximately 88 percent, either opposed or strongly opposed the mob’s actions. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533452-poll-18-percent-of-republicans-...
.....
67 Percent of Americans Blame Trump for Inciting Deadly Capitol Riot, Poll Says
Most Americans believe Donald Trump is responsible for provoking the violence that shook Capitol Hill last week, according to a recent national poll.
The survey, conducted by ABC News and Ipsos, collected responses from 570 U.S. adults between Friday and Saturday. It found that more than two-thirds of the poll's participants—67 percent—blame the sitting president for Wednesday's riots. Of that group, 52 percent of respondents said they believe Trump shoulders "a great deal" of liability, while another 15 percent said "a good amount" of fault, on his part, https://www.newsweek.com/67-percent-americans-blame-trump-inciting-deadl...
Appears you are on to something, Granma
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4 users have voted.
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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
It's important to have many viewpoints at our disposal - to BE AWARE of the many viewpoints, not just those we agree with. Watch the you tube or stick your head in the sand. Choices.
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12 users have voted.
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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
"Randall Lane, the editor of Forbes Magazine, has warned corporations not to hire former Trump officials to be scrutinized. If they hire them, said Lane, they will be viewed as a “funnel of disinformation” by the magazine.
"In the wake of Wednesday's attempted coup, Forbes — the American business magazine — has issued a warning to companies hoping to hire former officials from President Donald Trump's administration.
"Businesses that choose to hire Trump administration alumni will, the editor said, be held to account.
"Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," the magazine's editor Randall Lane wrote. "We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet," Lane added."
"Randall Lane, the editor of Forbes Magazine, has warned corporations not to hire former Trump officials to be scrutinized. If they hire them, said Lane, they will be viewed as a “funnel of disinformation” by the magazine.
"In the wake of Wednesday's attempted coup, Forbes — the American business magazine — has issued a warning to companies hoping to hire former officials from President Donald Trump's administration.
"Businesses that choose to hire Trump administration alumni will, the editor said, be held to account.
"Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," the magazine's editor Randall Lane wrote. "We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet," Lane added."
It smacks of tarring everyone with the same brush. Some Trump admin appointees and employees supported, repeated, and amplified Trump's lies. Many did not. Collective punishment is never appropriate.
It smacks of tarring everyone with the same brush. Some Trump admin appointees and employees supported, repeated, and amplified Trump's lies. Many did not. Collective punishment is never appropriate.
"Randall Lane, the editor of Forbes Magazine, has warned corporations not to hire former Trump officials to be scrutinized. If they hire them, said Lane, they will be viewed as a “funnel of disinformation” by the magazine.
"In the wake of Wednesday's attempted coup, Forbes — the American business magazine — has issued a warning to companies hoping to hire former officials from President Donald Trump's administration.
"Businesses that choose to hire Trump administration alumni will, the editor said, be held to account.
"Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," the magazine's editor Randall Lane wrote. "We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet," Lane added."
@smiley7
Democracy requires idiot voices to be heard.
officials.
"Randall Lane, the editor of Forbes Magazine, has warned corporations not to hire former Trump officials to be scrutinized. If they hire them, said Lane, they will be viewed as a “funnel of disinformation” by the magazine.
"In the wake of Wednesday's attempted coup, Forbes — the American business magazine — has issued a warning to companies hoping to hire former officials from President Donald Trump's administration.
"Businesses that choose to hire Trump administration alumni will, the editor said, be held to account.
"Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," the magazine's editor Randall Lane wrote. "We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet," Lane added."
@gjohnsit
Did ANY Trump officials riot? Yes, your blacklist is political just like the Hollywood blacklist. anyone who said anything good about the Soviets or Socialism or even racial injustice was blacklisted.
Blacklist Left, blacklist Right. Two horns on the same goat. A Judas goat leading democracy to the slaughter.
I hate defending Trump and right wing crazies. I hate that the DNC is making me do this. I hate the end of democracy in America. The stupid ass (not Hitler but a patsy of the corporations) has no power and is leaving. this putsch that Pelosi and Biden are pushing is as disgraceful as the assault on the Capitol.
#3.3
The Hollywood 10 got blacklisted for having unpopular ideas.
That's a bit different from being involved in a deadly riot.
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0 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Democrats and their media overlords have now in unison decided to play on the anger of Black people and police brutality by pushing a comparison of had the people who stormed the capitol been Black they would have received far different treatment. Joe Biden even gave a speech pretending to be outraged and saying we all know what would have happened had they been Black. Biden then went on to claim in that same incendiary speech that he wanted to bring the country together…that’s the biggest lie that has ever been told because democrats and republicans are only successful by the continued division of Black vs. White.
Before I go any further allow me to state clearly that we all know that Black people are treated differently (if not, deadly) when it comes to our encounters with the police. That fact is indisputable. What is also indisputable is that the same people feigning outrage and saying had Tuesday’s rioters been black, are also the same people who have brainwashed Black people into voting for a man who wrote the most harmful and destructive law for Black people since slavery. A law that incentivized the criminalization of millions of Black men, women and children into the crosshairs of the very police system they now pretend to be against.
They are the same people who wants you to believe that Kamala Harris who lovingly called herself a “top cop” and had to be forced by federal courts to allow prisoners early release, is somehow going to give a damn about the concerns of police brutality and any other systemic issue that poor Black people live with daily. The democrats choosing these two con artists was the biggest slap in the face of Black people, during a summer of unrest about police brutality. Yet Black people mindlessly accepted them both.
The whipping up of Black people to be angry at what happened on Tuesday at the US Capitol is shameful. The entire world witnessed over the summer the endless fires and burning down and taking over of police stations, churches, and even attempts to breach the wall of the White House to go after Trump. The difference is that liberal media did not cover those incidents with honesty; they instead chose to either not show them at all or as CNN did live on several occasions, tell their viewers that all was well as they stood in front of burning buildings and rioters violently storming the streets behind them.
I also remember clearly watching in disbelief as White women and their supporters stormed the Supreme Court during Kavanaugh hearings and bombrushed police and were allowed to bang on their door, yet CNN and MSNBC literally praised their outrage and destruction. When these White people were tearing down the Supreme Court doors and Senate floor with no regard to police or decorum, there was no outcry about what if they had been Black.
A tad bit more
Another disturbing rant came from Michelle Obama making the same claims of “what if they were black” when we know her husband and Joe Biden presided over the rise of BLM. We know that Barack Obama as POTUS, called young Black protestors in Baltimore thugs and also refused to apologize. She wasn’t finished with her arrogance and egomania, Michelle went even further and demanded that all social media remove Trump permanently from their platforms (she clearly got her wish)…now where have we heard those types of words before, yet we were told that Trump was the dictator!!
We know that under Obama, Natives were water hosed during subfreezing temperature while protesting his attempts to install the South Dakota pipeline. We know that Obama militarized police with more military tanks and war arsenal equipment than any other president before him.
There are always receipts. And hypocrisy. Worth a read.
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20 users have voted.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
But while I hear this theme over and over, I think of the many non-Black protestors in Portland, for example, who were beaten, gassed, kidnapped, and shot with impact munitions by militarized Feds, while good ol' Chad decried spray-painting.
The truth of it is what gives the race distraction its power: Blacks would have been killed, kettled and convicted.
The REAL factor here is the difference between those who were in service of fascism, in the service of the wealthy and powerful, and those opposing oppression.
Democrats and their media overlords have now in unison decided to play on the anger of Black people and police brutality by pushing a comparison of had the people who stormed the capitol been Black they would have received far different treatment. Joe Biden even gave a speech pretending to be outraged and saying we all know what would have happened had they been Black. Biden then went on to claim in that same incendiary speech that he wanted to bring the country together…that’s the biggest lie that has ever been told because democrats and republicans are only successful by the continued division of Black vs. White.
Before I go any further allow me to state clearly that we all know that Black people are treated differently (if not, deadly) when it comes to our encounters with the police. That fact is indisputable. What is also indisputable is that the same people feigning outrage and saying had Tuesday’s rioters been black, are also the same people who have brainwashed Black people into voting for a man who wrote the most harmful and destructive law for Black people since slavery. A law that incentivized the criminalization of millions of Black men, women and children into the crosshairs of the very police system they now pretend to be against.
They are the same people who wants you to believe that Kamala Harris who lovingly called herself a “top cop” and had to be forced by federal courts to allow prisoners early release, is somehow going to give a damn about the concerns of police brutality and any other systemic issue that poor Black people live with daily. The democrats choosing these two con artists was the biggest slap in the face of Black people, during a summer of unrest about police brutality. Yet Black people mindlessly accepted them both.
The whipping up of Black people to be angry at what happened on Tuesday at the US Capitol is shameful. The entire world witnessed over the summer the endless fires and burning down and taking over of police stations, churches, and even attempts to breach the wall of the White House to go after Trump. The difference is that liberal media did not cover those incidents with honesty; they instead chose to either not show them at all or as CNN did live on several occasions, tell their viewers that all was well as they stood in front of burning buildings and rioters violently storming the streets behind them.
I also remember clearly watching in disbelief as White women and their supporters stormed the Supreme Court during Kavanaugh hearings and bombrushed police and were allowed to bang on their door, yet CNN and MSNBC literally praised their outrage and destruction. When these White people were tearing down the Supreme Court doors and Senate floor with no regard to police or decorum, there was no outcry about what if they had been Black.
A tad bit more
Another disturbing rant came from Michelle Obama making the same claims of “what if they were black” when we know her husband and Joe Biden presided over the rise of BLM. We know that Barack Obama as POTUS, called young Black protestors in Baltimore thugs and also refused to apologize. She wasn’t finished with her arrogance and egomania, Michelle went even further and demanded that all social media remove Trump permanently from their platforms (she clearly got her wish)…now where have we heard those types of words before, yet we were told that Trump was the dictator!!
We know that under Obama, Natives were water hosed during subfreezing temperature while protesting his attempts to install the South Dakota pipeline. We know that Obama militarized police with more military tanks and war arsenal equipment than any other president before him.
There are always receipts. And hypocrisy. Worth a read.
@pindar's revenge
Both are scum. Being white and the victim of black racists, I hate them a little more. A young black woman that I worked with who had been gang-raped at 12 by white racists hates them more. Understandable. We managed to be good friends who looked forward to being together, our ages far enough apart to more like uncle-niece. No racists are good. I think most of us hate the racists that target ourselves a bit more. Understandable.
"Oh, now, you are saying: some of my best friends ..." the standard push-back. We all have to be masters or slaves? We can't be friends? I suppose not. The pastor of the Protestant church I attended as a boy told me I shouldn't have catholic friends. Their priest told them they shouldn't associate with me. We did anyway and once we were grown, none of us went to any church.
This whole black/white )D)/(R) fight is just designed to keep we proles from uniting against our real enemies. I sorrow to see so many here falling for the 1% divide and conquer.
But while I hear this theme over and over, I think of the many non-Black protestors in Portland, for example, who were beaten, gassed, kidnapped, and shot with impact munitions by militarized Feds, while good ol' Chad decried spray-painting.
The truth of it is what gives the race distraction its power: Blacks would have been killed, kettled and convicted.
The REAL factor here is the difference between those who were in service of fascism, in the service of the wealthy and powerful, and those opposing oppression.
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1 user has voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I took some Euro visitors to the location of an auction block once, to help give them insight into the modern US.
Despite the annoying friction I've sometimes received, nothing in my experience can compare. I have feared the police, but I haven't feared them kneeling on my neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds. A black coworker and I were arrested at a bus stop on mistaken identity (they were looking for a salt and pepper pair). He had his hands on the wall while I was still lowering my newspaper.
Racism is exploited as a distraction, but that does not take away the reality of racial oppression. To move forward, we'll have to learn to both walk and chew gum.
#4.1
Both are scum. Being white and the victim of black racists, I hate them a little more. A young black woman that I worked with who had been gang-raped at 12 by white racists hates them more. Understandable. We managed to be good friends who looked forward to being together, our ages far enough apart to more like uncle-niece. No racists are good. I think most of us hate the racists that target ourselves a bit more. Understandable.
"Oh, now, you are saying: some of my best friends ..." the standard push-back. We all have to be masters or slaves? We can't be friends? I suppose not. The pastor of the Protestant church I attended as a boy told me I shouldn't have catholic friends. Their priest told them they shouldn't associate with me. We did anyway and once we were grown, none of us went to any church.
This whole black/white )D)/(R) fight is just designed to keep we proles from uniting against our real enemies. I sorrow to see so many here falling for the 1% divide and conquer.
The corporate Democrats - the corruptocrats - the fascists - have been setting this up since at least 2009, and we're going to take all the damage. From both ends. All we can do now is hope that it won't be as bad as the cultural revolution or at least it won't last longer than the French terror.
I finally managed to get through a call to my paleo-conservative buddy at the Post Office. After personal talk he told me that he is working on a new package sorting machine that was installed since I retired. He said for two solid weeks in December they only processed Land's end packages. OK, now to the point of the post:
We touched the riot at the Capitol, I told him, "I was sickened at the violation of Congress. Three times in my life I have sworn an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and I know that you have also, at least twice." (He's a Korean War vet, a Marine infantryman, who was in combat.) He was silent. It was flip phone to flip phone so I couldn't see his face. If I we had been face to face, I would have known if he was ashamed or angered. We usually don't talk much politics, each of us preferring to regard his friend as hopelessly confused. (This was the man who told me that Obama was a Socialist and I said, "No, he's not, if he was I'd be out campaigning for him." He was shocked to the core, gasping "You don't know what you're saying, Tony!")
I wonder if that conversation echoes similar conversations 150 or so years ago as friends broke over North-South lines and even families were rift as some brothers wore the Blue and some the Gray. Has the time come when friends and even family become enemies?
We are indeed living the Chinese curse about "interesting times".
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10 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@Bollox Ref
Getting ready to condemn US without trial next. Will I get up one morning to find that c99 is gone because no corporation will allow it on the net? Or the government has proscribed it?
Democracy requires the rule of law. Law requires evidence. I want the current system to change. I do not want the Reign of Terror.
against an upcoming centre-right government.
Odd zeitgeist.
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2 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
People overlook the fact that most of the people who died in the Reign of Terror were actual traitors to France. And almost all of them were wealthy aristocrats.
And then there is the often forgotten fact that the government during the Terror was the first in Europe's history to outlaw slavery everywhere in the empire.
#8
Getting ready to condemn US without trial next. Will I get up one morning to find that c99 is gone because no corporation will allow it on the net? Or the government has proscribed it?
Democracy requires the rule of law. Law requires evidence. I want the current system to change. I do not want the Reign of Terror.
People overlook the fact that most of the people who died in the Reign of Terror were actual traitors to France. And almost all of them were wealthy aristocrats.
And then there is the often forgotten fact that the government during the Terror was the first in Europe's history to outlaw slavery everywhere in the empire.
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0 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@Bollox Ref
I know that I've worn out the War of the Roses reference, but it's worth reminding people that the elites hate each a great deal.
And that the only thing that will unite them is a threat to their wealth by a peasant revolt.
#8
I know that I've worn out the War of the Roses reference, but it's worth reminding people that the elites hate each a great deal.
And that the only thing that will unite them is a threat to their wealth by a peasant revolt.
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1 user has voted.
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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Mafia crime families. Coordination where possible, to the mattresses when not. With the little people in the crossfire.
More current All-American
#8
I know that I've worn out the War of the Roses reference, but it's worth reminding people that the elites hate each a great deal.
And that the only thing that will unite them is a threat to their wealth by a peasant revolt.
Democrats or Republicans. I wonder what they think. Well, since I Dem-exited I am worried that this beer belly putsch* will be another failed coup precursor like Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch.
*I can’t take credit for beer belly putsch. I read it somewhere.
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3 users have voted.
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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
@Lily O Lady
I don't think we will ever see another republican President ... as long as Democrats count the mail-in ballots.
Democrats or Republicans. I wonder what they think. Well, since I Dem-exited I am worried that this beer belly putsch* will be another failed coup precursor like Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch.
*I can’t take credit for beer belly putsch. I read it somewhere.
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0 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
mail-in ballots to only those for whom it would be medically necessary. Democrats are calling for a limited session to only pass the budget as mandated with all other issues dealt with in the summer or fall. The concerns over Covid19 follow party lines.
#9
I don't think we will ever see another republican President ... as long as Democrats count the mail-in ballots.
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3 users have voted.
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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I very strongly believe that every voter in this country should be able to vote by mail. Limiting voting only to people who are able to and can afford to spend hours waiting in lines on a Tuesday is absolutely ridiculous.
"Democrats" do not count the ballots, mail-in or otherwise, of course. Bipartisan election officials and volunteers count the votes, all out in the open and with each other watching. Claiming that dems control this process is also a ridiculous statement.
And guess what, here in AZ -- with vote by mail in place for years -- republicans have almost always won state wide and presidential elections; we have a republican governor, we had two republican senators for decades, we've been a presidential "red state" since the 1990s. This year AZ went blue only because (IMO) Trump viciously attacked John McCain and deeply insulted the McCain family, and a lot of people in Arizona (not me) think he was the greatest. Trump's attacks on him and his family did not go over well here with a great many independents and also a lot of republicans. Trump lost nationally because he sucks and has been a terrible president. He lost because of the pandemic too, and his utterly incompetent and stupid response to it, which has cost countless lives. He dug his own political grave, period.
All this blaming of his loss on things like mail-in ballots or dishonest counting is pure denial and childish finger-pointing, blaming anyone and everything except Trump's own actions and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad presidency. No different to me that Hillary's crying about Russia and her and her minions blaming every stupid thing under the sun rather than just accepting that she was a terrible candidate who lost because she sucked. Just like Trump.
mail-in ballots to only those for whom it would be medically necessary. Democrats are calling for a limited session to only pass the budget as mandated with all other issues dealt with in the summer or fall. The concerns over Covid19 follow party lines.
We’ve voted by mail for years and we have republicans everywhere except Salt Lake which usually has a democratic mayor. The rest of the state is run by republicans and the Mormon church.
I very strongly believe that every voter in this country should be able to vote by mail. Limiting voting only to people who are able to and can afford to spend hours waiting in lines on a Tuesday is absolutely ridiculous.
"Democrats" do not count the ballots, mail-in or otherwise, of course. Bipartisan election officials and volunteers count the votes, all out in the open and with each other watching. Claiming that dems control this process is also a ridiculous statement.
And guess what, here in AZ -- with vote by mail in place for years -- republicans have almost always won state wide and presidential elections; we have a republican governor, we had two republican senators for decades, we've been a presidential "red state" since the 1990s. This year AZ went blue only because (IMO) Trump viciously attacked John McCain and deeply insulted the McCain family, and a lot of people in Arizona (not me) think he was the greatest. Trump's attacks on him and his family did not go over well here with a great many independents and also a lot of republicans. Trump lost nationally because he sucks and has been a terrible president. He lost because of the pandemic too, and his utterly incompetent and stupid response to it, which has cost countless lives. He dug his own political grave, period.
All this blaming of his loss on things like mail-in ballots or dishonest counting is pure denial and childish finger-pointing, blaming anyone and everything except Trump's own actions and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad presidency. No different to me that Hillary's crying about Russia and her and her minions blaming every stupid thing under the sun rather than just accepting that she was a terrible candidate who lost because she sucked. Just like Trump.
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3 users have voted.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
@CS in AZ
I never have. And I refuse to use the voting machines. I request a paper ballot usually with no wait at all while the sheep wait in line for the electronic machines. IMHO, you should be able to download a ballot and turn it in at the polling place without waiting for other people to fill out thers. The problem with mail-in is who collects the ballots? Without constant surveillance, how do you know that the delivered ballots have not bee substituted? When I was a judge, mail-in ballots (all absentee) were delivered to the precinct, examined by Democratic and Republican judges, then fed into the reader. No "discovering" millions of ballots weeks later.
Best of all would be internet voting like public companies. Bitcoin technology should be used and all software Open Source and verified by all balloted parties.
I very strongly believe that every voter in this country should be able to vote by mail. Limiting voting only to people who are able to and can afford to spend hours waiting in lines on a Tuesday is absolutely ridiculous.
"Democrats" do not count the ballots, mail-in or otherwise, of course. Bipartisan election officials and volunteers count the votes, all out in the open and with each other watching. Claiming that dems control this process is also a ridiculous statement.
And guess what, here in AZ -- with vote by mail in place for years -- republicans have almost always won state wide and presidential elections; we have a republican governor, we had two republican senators for decades, we've been a presidential "red state" since the 1990s. This year AZ went blue only because (IMO) Trump viciously attacked John McCain and deeply insulted the McCain family, and a lot of people in Arizona (not me) think he was the greatest. Trump's attacks on him and his family did not go over well here with a great many independents and also a lot of republicans. Trump lost nationally because he sucks and has been a terrible president. He lost because of the pandemic too, and his utterly incompetent and stupid response to it, which has cost countless lives. He dug his own political grave, period.
All this blaming of his loss on things like mail-in ballots or dishonest counting is pure denial and childish finger-pointing, blaming anyone and everything except Trump's own actions and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad presidency. No different to me that Hillary's crying about Russia and her and her minions blaming every stupid thing under the sun rather than just accepting that she was a terrible candidate who lost because she sucked. Just like Trump.
up
0 users have voted.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Oregon became the first state to switch to vote by mail exclusively in 2000. Washington followed in 2011.
Colorado followed in 2014 and turnout that year was disappointing. As of 2020:
Nine states and Washington, D.C. mail all ballots directly to voters: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Nevada, New Jersey, Utah, Vermont and Washington.
Voting by absentee ballot is different from vbm:
“Before the civil rights movement., it was largely members of the military, expats and people who were truly disabled or couldn’t get to their jurisdiction who were permitted to vote absentee,” says Stein.
Back then states differed in how liberal or conservative they were in approving a request for an absentee ballot, but they had to be requested. It appears that in 1974 Washington was the first state to offer "no-excuse absentee voting." Other but not all states followed later and permanent absentee voter status became available. By 2019 Pennsylvania remained highly restrictive as to what absentee ballot requests would be honored (and is part of the background as to why PA played such an outsized role in the election conflicts).
...For the first time in history, at least 75 percent of Americans are able to vote absentee.
In the 2020 election:
· Thirty-four U.S. states offer no-excuse absentee voting or permit registered voters to cite COVID-19 as their reason to vote absentee.
...
Seven states—Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, New York, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas—require voters to give a reason other than COVID-19 to vote absentee.
The significant expansion of absentee voting in 2020 -- and many states made it very easy to request absentee ballots -- undermined long-standing voter suppression and disenfranchisement methods and made for the fairest election ever in GA and probably a few other states. Voting while not white became more difficult to enforce. Inadequate polling stations in minority areas (a favored method in AZ) requiring people to stand in line for hours until they gave up weren't in evidence.
Someone on Trump's team recognized the danger that absentee voting posed for him. It's why he railed against it and why the Postmaster General had a plot to subvert it (thwarted by an astute federal judge in a few districts).
I very strongly believe that every voter in this country should be able to vote by mail. Limiting voting only to people who are able to and can afford to spend hours waiting in lines on a Tuesday is absolutely ridiculous.
"Democrats" do not count the ballots, mail-in or otherwise, of course. Bipartisan election officials and volunteers count the votes, all out in the open and with each other watching. Claiming that dems control this process is also a ridiculous statement.
And guess what, here in AZ -- with vote by mail in place for years -- republicans have almost always won state wide and presidential elections; we have a republican governor, we had two republican senators for decades, we've been a presidential "red state" since the 1990s. This year AZ went blue only because (IMO) Trump viciously attacked John McCain and deeply insulted the McCain family, and a lot of people in Arizona (not me) think he was the greatest. Trump's attacks on him and his family did not go over well here with a great many independents and also a lot of republicans. Trump lost nationally because he sucks and has been a terrible president. He lost because of the pandemic too, and his utterly incompetent and stupid response to it, which has cost countless lives. He dug his own political grave, period.
All this blaming of his loss on things like mail-in ballots or dishonest counting is pure denial and childish finger-pointing, blaming anyone and everything except Trump's own actions and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad presidency. No different to me that Hillary's crying about Russia and her and her minions blaming every stupid thing under the sun rather than just accepting that she was a terrible candidate who lost because she sucked. Just like Trump.
and I have been doing so for a long time. All we had to do was sign up to be on the permanent vote by mail list and from then on we automatically get our ballots in the mail. This is a fact, I live here and this is how it works.
Oregon became the first state to switch to vote by mail exclusively in 2000. Washington followed in 2011.
Colorado followed in 2014 and turnout that year was disappointing. As of 2020:
Nine states and Washington, D.C. mail all ballots directly to voters: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Nevada, New Jersey, Utah, Vermont and Washington.
Voting by absentee ballot is different from vbm:
“Before the civil rights movement., it was largely members of the military, expats and people who were truly disabled or couldn’t get to their jurisdiction who were permitted to vote absentee,” says Stein.
Back then states differed in how liberal or conservative they were in approving a request for an absentee ballot, but they had to be requested. It appears that in 1974 Washington was the first state to offer "no-excuse absentee voting." Other but not all states followed later and permanent absentee voter status became available. By 2019 Pennsylvania remained highly restrictive as to what absentee ballot requests would be honored (and is part of the background as to why PA played such an outsized role in the election conflicts).
...For the first time in history, at least 75 percent of Americans are able to vote absentee.
In the 2020 election:
· Thirty-four U.S. states offer no-excuse absentee voting or permit registered voters to cite COVID-19 as their reason to vote absentee.
...
Seven states—Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, New York, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas—require voters to give a reason other than COVID-19 to vote absentee.
The significant expansion of absentee voting in 2020 -- and many states made it very easy to request absentee ballots -- undermined long-standing voter suppression and disenfranchisement methods and made for the fairest election ever in GA and probably a few other states. Voting while not white became more difficult to enforce. Inadequate polling stations in minority areas (a favored method in AZ) requiring people to stand in line for hours until they gave up weren't in evidence.
Someone on Trump's team recognized the danger that absentee voting posed for him. It's why he railed against it and why the Postmaster General had a plot to subvert it (thwarted by an astute federal judge in a few districts).
@CS in AZ
about GA GOP legislators working to restrict absentee ballots -- like the good old days. That's a risk in all states other than vote by mail states.
I covered the permanent absentee voter status in my comment -- it was a liberalization of absentee ballot requests. (If it's so easy in AZ -- just sign up for it -- why didn't more AZ minority voters do it in the past and avoid the long lines?) It's still an absentee ballot.
Absentee ballots have long favored Republicans because it's part of their GOTV effort among old, white, conservatives. COVID-19 upset that advantage.
and I have been doing so for a long time. All we had to do was sign up to be on the permanent vote by mail list and from then on we automatically get our ballots in the mail. This is a fact, I live here and this is how it works.
Arizona voters have cast ballots by mail for nearly three decades.
In 1991, the Legislature allowed Arizona voters to request an absentee ballot for any reason. Before the change in the law, a voter requesting an absentee ballot had to prove they could not make it to the polls on election day.
In 1997, state lawmakers made a simple change in Arizona election law. The word “absentee” was replaced by “early.”
In 2007, Pima County Recorder F. Ann Rodriguez led an effort by county recorders to get the Legislature to create the Permanent Early Voting List.
“Our constituents were saying: 'How come I have to do this every year, request a ballot by mail? You can see in my history I always vote this way.' And they were correct, so we went to the Legislature saying: 'Look, people want this method. Let them have the option of choosing to do it or not to do it,'” Rodriguez said.
Since Arizona changed its early voting laws, making it easier to cast an early ballot, the practice has become more popular. Most of the early ballots cast are done so by mail.
“Voters in Arizona know that it’s a system that works, and they have chosen in increasing numbers have chosen to exercise that option for more than a couple decades here,” said Secretary of State Katie Hobbs.
In the 2012 general election, 61% of Arizona voters cast an early ballot according to the Secretary of State’s office. By 2018, that number grew to 79%.
Oregon became the first state to switch to vote by mail exclusively in 2000. Washington followed in 2011.
Colorado followed in 2014 and turnout that year was disappointing. As of 2020:
Nine states and Washington, D.C. mail all ballots directly to voters: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Nevada, New Jersey, Utah, Vermont and Washington.
Voting by absentee ballot is different from vbm:
“Before the civil rights movement., it was largely members of the military, expats and people who were truly disabled or couldn’t get to their jurisdiction who were permitted to vote absentee,” says Stein.
Back then states differed in how liberal or conservative they were in approving a request for an absentee ballot, but they had to be requested. It appears that in 1974 Washington was the first state to offer "no-excuse absentee voting." Other but not all states followed later and permanent absentee voter status became available. By 2019 Pennsylvania remained highly restrictive as to what absentee ballot requests would be honored (and is part of the background as to why PA played such an outsized role in the election conflicts).
...For the first time in history, at least 75 percent of Americans are able to vote absentee.
In the 2020 election:
· Thirty-four U.S. states offer no-excuse absentee voting or permit registered voters to cite COVID-19 as their reason to vote absentee.
...
Seven states—Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, New York, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas—require voters to give a reason other than COVID-19 to vote absentee.
The significant expansion of absentee voting in 2020 -- and many states made it very easy to request absentee ballots -- undermined long-standing voter suppression and disenfranchisement methods and made for the fairest election ever in GA and probably a few other states. Voting while not white became more difficult to enforce. Inadequate polling stations in minority areas (a favored method in AZ) requiring people to stand in line for hours until they gave up weren't in evidence.
Someone on Trump's team recognized the danger that absentee voting posed for him. It's why he railed against it and why the Postmaster General had a plot to subvert it (thwarted by an astute federal judge in a few districts).
@CS in AZ
You mail in an absentee ballot that you requested on a permanent basis.
In vote by mail states, there are no absentee ballots. All registered voters receive a ballot and submit them either by mail or in a designated lockbox.
Arizona voters have cast ballots by mail for nearly three decades.
In 1991, the Legislature allowed Arizona voters to request an absentee ballot for any reason. Before the change in the law, a voter requesting an absentee ballot had to prove they could not make it to the polls on election day.
In 1997, state lawmakers made a simple change in Arizona election law. The word “absentee” was replaced by “early.”
In 2007, Pima County Recorder F. Ann Rodriguez led an effort by county recorders to get the Legislature to create the Permanent Early Voting List.
“Our constituents were saying: 'How come I have to do this every year, request a ballot by mail? You can see in my history I always vote this way.' And they were correct, so we went to the Legislature saying: 'Look, people want this method. Let them have the option of choosing to do it or not to do it,'” Rodriguez said.
Since Arizona changed its early voting laws, making it easier to cast an early ballot, the practice has become more popular. Most of the early ballots cast are done so by mail.
“Voters in Arizona know that it’s a system that works, and they have chosen in increasing numbers have chosen to exercise that option for more than a couple decades here,” said Secretary of State Katie Hobbs.
In the 2012 general election, 61% of Arizona voters cast an early ballot according to the Secretary of State’s office. By 2018, that number grew to 79%.
I didn’t say that we have to vote by mail, I said we have vote by mail that is available to everyone in the state, which we’ve had for a long time. And that system has not caused republicans to lose elections here.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to change the subject or argue that point with a straw man that Az doesn’t really have the option to vote by mail. Yes, we do. And most Az voters use it. And it works great and makes voting easier, more thoughtful, more accessible.
#9.1.1.1.3.2
You mail in an absentee ballot that you requested on a permanent basis.
In vote by mail states, there are no absentee ballots. All registered voters receive a ballot and submit them either by mail or in a designated lockbox.
Comments
I notice the poll was taken on the 6th
The day the riot happened. I wonder if some have changed their minds as more information has come out. How many people know that in addition to the 2 capitol police who have died, 60 of them injured, 10 of them still in the hospital 2 days later? The metal bars some rioters carried were used to hit police. It will be interesting to see if opinions have changed as more information and videos have been released.
you may be right
Here is a video showing the cops being beaten
There is another longer video in the thread that has a closer shot of the action. Looked like they dragged one cop down the stairs.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Snoopy, thanks, the thread is powerful
and the video the one i alluded to earlier in WW. Everyone should view this horrible atrocity, see the photos and the close-up video you mention and let history and the truth stand and not be white-washed.
Link to twitter and see the evidence in this one thread. Caution, this may not be the assault that killed the Capitol policemen as that was apparently inside with a fire extinguisher, but apparently several officers are still in critical care.
Imo, this is the fruit of ignoring 25,000 lies.
Even worse
Beyond words.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
tears flowing, damn those responsible, all of them
Tears for a cop?
No snark here, but, honestly, I'm surprised, what with all the hatred for cops here.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
yes, tears for a human being and sadly,
there is a lot of hate on social media, unfortunately on c99 as well.
Having said that, i sense you know little of me, not that you should, mind you; but in my formative college years, i became a supporter of Malcolm X after reading all his published works. Marched with Hoffman and so on--not exactly the pedigree of a cop lover. Been an activist all these years. In truth, i've never understood why people choose to don uniforms of any kind; but, somewhat ironically, i made a living putting on costumes.
And perhaps the tears also flow in realizing where we have arrived in our society.
Your question answered in short.
The chants of "USA! USA!" are so ironic
These people are just dumb. They're also violent. Like typical republicans, really. It's dangerous.
Were the BLM protesers burning stores on Michigan avenue (R)s?
Some things are wrong whoever does them. Notice how protest about Gitmo died down when it was Obama torturing prisoners? Whatever your party, if you condone law breaking as long as it's your side, you are a barbarian.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I didn't write anything about BLM or
anything related to Obama's term. As you note: it's not really relevant who is perpetrating the violence. The motive and ends do matter, though. It's pretty okay with me to violently oppose, say, Nazi Germany or modern China (but I repeat myself).
Poll: 18 percent of Republicans support Capitol riots
Approximately 18 percent of Republicans support the pro-Trump rioters who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday in opposition to Congress’s certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s win, according to a PBS NewsHour/Marist poll released Friday.
The survey, which polled more than 800 adults the day after the riots, also found that despite some support among GOP members, most Americans, approximately 88 percent, either opposed or strongly opposed the mob’s actions. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533452-poll-18-percent-of-republicans-...
.....
67 Percent of Americans Blame Trump for Inciting Deadly Capitol Riot, Poll Says
Most Americans believe Donald Trump is responsible for provoking the violence that shook Capitol Hill last week, according to a recent national poll.
The survey, conducted by ABC News and Ipsos, collected responses from 570 U.S. adults between Friday and Saturday. It found that more than two-thirds of the poll's participants—67 percent—blame the sitting president for Wednesday's riots. Of that group, 52 percent of respondents said they believe Trump shoulders "a great deal" of liability, while another 15 percent said "a good amount" of fault, on his part, https://www.newsweek.com/67-percent-americans-blame-trump-inciting-deadl...
Appears you are on to something, Granma
How many have been
told that by their news sources since the ‘insurrection’ happened?
There is a Narrative going on interwoven with these distractions that has seemed to paralyzed people.
I view this as an innoculation to deter anyone Else from trying this.
Ho hum, already been done. By idiots, no less. How else to explain ‘Bison Boy’?
The people kicking the cops ass were Pissed, though. You don’t drop a cop in one punch with out some Royal anger behind it.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Off the wall there, tbu, don't really
comprehend what you are saying, sorry.
He's saying corporate news has the public brainwashed
And IMO, he is correct.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I have to agree with
lotlizard in the comment made in the essay by Ranting Rooster, "We Should be Dancing in the Streets about Trump's Suspension from Twitter."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGIOJcOfT7o&feature=youtu.be
It's important to have many viewpoints at our disposal - to BE AWARE of the many viewpoints, not just those we agree with. Watch the you tube or stick your head in the sand. Choices.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Forbes Magazine has warned corporations not to hire former Trump
officials.
"Randall Lane, the editor of Forbes Magazine, has warned corporations not to hire former Trump officials to be scrutinized. If they hire them, said Lane, they will be viewed as a “funnel of disinformation” by the magazine.
"In the wake of Wednesday's attempted coup, Forbes — the American business magazine — has issued a warning to companies hoping to hire former officials from President Donald Trump's administration.
"Businesses that choose to hire Trump administration alumni will, the editor said, be held to account.
"Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," the magazine's editor Randall Lane wrote. "We're going to scrutinize, double-check, investigate with the same skepticism we'd approach a Trump tweet," Lane added."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/randalllane/2021/01/07/a-truth-reckoning-wh...
Are you OK with this?
Actually have no opinion about it, it just newsworthy
and of interest as apparently even some wealthy don't appreciate being conflated with murderous insurrections.
Interesting
Maybe President elect Biden should sign an executive order like Truman did in 1947 - Executive Order 9835 aka Loyalty Order?
You wish to parry, CB, en garde.
I'm not okay with it.
It smacks of tarring everyone with the same brush. Some Trump admin appointees and employees supported, repeated, and amplified Trump's lies. Many did not. Collective punishment is never appropriate.
OTOH --
as Trump was appointing from below the bottom of the swamp, who would want to hire them anyway?
The real rulers have spoken n/t
EDIT: spelling
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
:) apears so, but i don't trust them as they change in the
wind for profit.
Blacklist - like the Hollywood blacklist n/t
Democracy requires idiot voices to be heard.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
No, not like the Hollywood 10
The Hollywood 10 got blacklisted for having unpopular ideas.
That's a bit different from being involved in a deadly riot.
ALL the Trump officials rioted?
Did ANY Trump officials riot? Yes, your blacklist is political just like the Hollywood blacklist. anyone who said anything good about the Soviets or Socialism or even racial injustice was blacklisted.
Blacklist Left, blacklist Right. Two horns on the same goat. A Judas goat leading democracy to the slaughter.
I hate defending Trump and right wing crazies. I hate that the DNC is making me do this. I hate the end of democracy in America. The stupid ass (not Hitler but a patsy of the corporations) has no power and is leaving. this putsch that Pelosi and Biden are pushing is as disgraceful as the assault on the Capitol.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Teodrose Fikremariam has an interesting take on it
Here’s a taste.
https://ghionjournal.com/dear-black-people-obamas-biden-liberal-media-ga...
There are always receipts. And hypocrisy. Worth a read.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
It's very true that Black people would have been brutalized
But while I hear this theme over and over, I think of the many non-Black protestors in Portland, for example, who were beaten, gassed, kidnapped, and shot with impact munitions by militarized Feds, while good ol' Chad decried spray-painting.
The truth of it is what gives the race distraction its power: Blacks would have been killed, kettled and convicted.
The REAL factor here is the difference between those who were in service of fascism, in the service of the wealthy and powerful, and those opposing oppression.
White racists, black racists
Both are scum. Being white and the victim of black racists, I hate them a little more. A young black woman that I worked with who had been gang-raped at 12 by white racists hates them more. Understandable. We managed to be good friends who looked forward to being together, our ages far enough apart to more like uncle-niece. No racists are good. I think most of us hate the racists that target ourselves a bit more. Understandable.
"Oh, now, you are saying: some of my best friends ..." the standard push-back. We all have to be masters or slaves? We can't be friends? I suppose not. The pastor of the Protestant church I attended as a boy told me I shouldn't have catholic friends. Their priest told them they shouldn't associate with me. We did anyway and once we were grown, none of us went to any church.
This whole black/white )D)/(R) fight is just designed to keep we proles from uniting against our real enemies. I sorrow to see so many here falling for the 1% divide and conquer.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
"scum" is strong language
to use for the descendants of chattel.
I took some Euro visitors to the location of an auction block once, to help give them insight into the modern US.
Despite the annoying friction I've sometimes received, nothing in my experience can compare. I have feared the police, but I haven't feared them kneeling on my neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds. A black coworker and I were arrested at a bus stop on mistaken identity (they were looking for a salt and pepper pair). He had his hands on the wall while I was still lowering my newspaper.
Racism is exploited as a distraction, but that does not take away the reality of racial oppression. To move forward, we'll have to learn to both walk and chew gum.
This is what we were afraid of
The corporate Democrats - the corruptocrats - the fascists - have been setting this up since at least 2009, and we're going to take all the damage. From both ends. All we can do now is hope that it won't be as bad as the cultural revolution or at least it won't last longer than the French terror.
On to Biden since 1973
Just an anecdote
I finally managed to get through a call to my paleo-conservative buddy at the Post Office. After personal talk he told me that he is working on a new package sorting machine that was installed since I retired. He said for two solid weeks in December they only processed Land's end packages. OK, now to the point of the post:
We touched the riot at the Capitol, I told him, "I was sickened at the violation of Congress. Three times in my life I have sworn an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and I know that you have also, at least twice." (He's a Korean War vet, a Marine infantryman, who was in combat.) He was silent. It was flip phone to flip phone so I couldn't see his face. If I we had been face to face, I would have known if he was ashamed or angered. We usually don't talk much politics, each of us preferring to regard his friend as hopelessly confused. (This was the man who told me that Obama was a Socialist and I said, "No, he's not, if he was I'd be out campaigning for him." He was shocked to the core, gasping "You don't know what you're saying, Tony!")
I wonder if that conversation echoes similar conversations 150 or so years ago as friends broke over North-South lines and even families were rift as some brothers wore the Blue and some the Gray. Has the time come when friends and even family become enemies?
We are indeed living the Chinese curse about "interesting times".
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Not new -- seems entirely
consistent with the long standing mindset of "nearly half" of Republicans. They're fascists and relish violence perpetrated by those like them.
Riots by the right
against an upcoming centre-right government.
Odd zeitgeist.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Once again --
Richard Wolff:
“Those who make Bernie Sanders impossible will make Luigi Mangione inevitable." - Dan Berger
Establishing the precedent
Getting ready to condemn US without trial next. Will I get up one morning to find that c99 is gone because no corporation will allow it on the net? Or the government has proscribed it?
Democracy requires the rule of law. Law requires evidence. I want the current system to change. I do not want the Reign of Terror.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I do
People overlook the fact that most of the people who died in the Reign of Terror were actual traitors to France. And almost all of them were wealthy aristocrats.
And then there is the often forgotten fact that the government during the Terror was the first in Europe's history to outlaw slavery everywhere in the empire.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
House Lancaster v. House York
I know that I've worn out the War of the Roses reference, but it's worth reminding people that the elites hate each a great deal.
And that the only thing that will unite them is a threat to their wealth by a peasant revolt.
I see it the same way. We are really
pawns on the chessboard.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I think of it as competing
Mafia crime families. Coordination where possible, to the mattresses when not. With the little people in the crossfire.
All-American 
More current
Labels without differences
The mafia was less ruthless
Many voters identify as independent rather than
Democrats or Republicans. I wonder what they think. Well, since I Dem-exited I am worried that this beer belly putsch* will be another failed coup precursor like Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch.
*I can’t take credit for beer belly putsch. I read it somewhere.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
But who will be successfull?
I don't think we will ever see another republican President ... as long as Democrats count the mail-in ballots.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Republicans in Georgia are getting ready to limit
mail-in ballots to only those for whom it would be medically necessary. Democrats are calling for a limited session to only pass the budget as mandated with all other issues dealt with in the summer or fall. The concerns over Covid19 follow party lines.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
We've had vote-by-mail in AZ for many years
I very strongly believe that every voter in this country should be able to vote by mail. Limiting voting only to people who are able to and can afford to spend hours waiting in lines on a Tuesday is absolutely ridiculous.
"Democrats" do not count the ballots, mail-in or otherwise, of course. Bipartisan election officials and volunteers count the votes, all out in the open and with each other watching. Claiming that dems control this process is also a ridiculous statement.
And guess what, here in AZ -- with vote by mail in place for years -- republicans have almost always won state wide and presidential elections; we have a republican governor, we had two republican senators for decades, we've been a presidential "red state" since the 1990s. This year AZ went blue only because (IMO) Trump viciously attacked John McCain and deeply insulted the McCain family, and a lot of people in Arizona (not me) think he was the greatest. Trump's attacks on him and his family did not go over well here with a great many independents and also a lot of republicans. Trump lost nationally because he sucks and has been a terrible president. He lost because of the pandemic too, and his utterly incompetent and stupid response to it, which has cost countless lives. He dug his own political grave, period.
All this blaming of his loss on things like mail-in ballots or dishonest counting is pure denial and childish finger-pointing, blaming anyone and everything except Trump's own actions and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad presidency. No different to me that Hillary's crying about Russia and her and her minions blaming every stupid thing under the sun rather than just accepting that she was a terrible candidate who lost because she sucked. Just like Trump.
Same with Utah
We’ve voted by mail for years and we have republicans everywhere except Salt Lake which usually has a democratic mayor. The rest of the state is run by republicans and the Mormon church.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Should not have to stand in line for hours.
I never have. And I refuse to use the voting machines. I request a paper ballot usually with no wait at all while the sheep wait in line for the electronic machines. IMHO, you should be able to download a ballot and turn it in at the polling place without waiting for other people to fill out thers. The problem with mail-in is who collects the ballots? Without constant surveillance, how do you know that the delivered ballots have not bee substituted? When I was a judge, mail-in ballots (all absentee) were delivered to the precinct, examined by Democratic and Republican judges, then fed into the reader. No "discovering" millions of ballots weeks later.
Best of all would be internet voting like public companies. Bitcoin technology should be used and all software Open Source and verified by all balloted parties.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
AZ is NOT a vote by mail state,
much less one of many years standing.
For those interested, vote by mail history
Colorado followed in 2014 and turnout that year was disappointing. As of 2020:
Voting by absentee ballot is different from vbm:
Back then states differed in how liberal or conservative they were in approving a request for an absentee ballot, but they had to be requested. It appears that in 1974 Washington was the first state to offer "no-excuse absentee voting." Other but not all states followed later and permanent absentee voter status became available. By 2019 Pennsylvania remained highly restrictive as to what absentee ballot requests would be honored (and is part of the background as to why PA played such an outsized role in the election conflicts).
The significant expansion of absentee voting in 2020 -- and many states made it very easy to request absentee ballots -- undermined long-standing voter suppression and disenfranchisement methods and made for the fairest election ever in GA and probably a few other states. Voting while not white became more difficult to enforce. Inadequate polling stations in minority areas (a favored method in AZ) requiring people to stand in line for hours until they gave up weren't in evidence.
Someone on Trump's team recognized the danger that absentee voting posed for him. It's why he railed against it and why the Postmaster General had a plot to subvert it (thwarted by an astute federal judge in a few districts).
I live here, and have for a very long time. We CAN vote by mail
and I have been doing so for a long time. All we had to do was sign up to be on the permanent vote by mail list and from then on we automatically get our ballots in the mail. This is a fact, I live here and this is how it works.
You replied to LOL's comment
about GA GOP legislators working to restrict absentee ballots -- like the good old days. That's a risk in all states other than vote by mail states.
I covered the permanent absentee voter status in my comment -- it was a liberalization of absentee ballot requests. (If it's so easy in AZ -- just sign up for it -- why didn't more AZ minority voters do it in the past and avoid the long lines?) It's still an absentee ballot.
Absentee ballots have long favored Republicans because it's part of their GOTV effort among old, white, conservatives. COVID-19 upset that advantage.
Yes, Arizona IS a vote by mail state and has been for decades
Please get your facts straight Marie.
Arizona’s long history with voting by mail
My facts are straight
You mail in an absentee ballot that you requested on a permanent basis.
In vote by mail states, there are no absentee ballots. All registered voters receive a ballot and submit them either by mail or in a designated lockbox.
You’re quibbling semantics over something I didn’t say
I didn’t say that we have to vote by mail, I said we have vote by mail that is available to everyone in the state, which we’ve had for a long time. And that system has not caused republicans to lose elections here.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to change the subject or argue that point with a straw man that Az doesn’t really have the option to vote by mail. Yes, we do. And most Az voters use it. And it works great and makes voting easier, more thoughtful, more accessible.