Trump's "election fraud" = A more believable Russiagate

I'm seeing a disturbingly large number of progressives buying into Trump's bullshit.
I understand why - because we've already seen rigged elections.
However there is one huge difference - the rigged elections that we've seen were the Democratic primaries. Why is that important?

russia_0.jpg

Now it's easy to think "rigged primaries, rigged general election, what's the difference?"
In fact there are two huge differences:

#1) the Bernie Sanders primary challenge threatened the entrenched political structure. Trump never did that.
(If you believe Trump threatened the political establishment, please explain how he did that while he was cutting taxes for the rich, completely gutting regulatory agencies, and appointing lobbyists to run the government.)

#2) The second difference is quite simply there's evidence of rigged primaries, while there is no real evidence of widespread voter fraud in the general election. And by evidence I mean stuff submitted in court.
And why should the ruling elite rig the general election when they already have candidates that they wanted?

Trump is doing what the Democrats did for four years previously with Russiagate - making up bullshit slander to undermine their political opponent. Trump is just using a more believable enemy.

russia1.jpg

That's not to say the general election wasn't rigged.
Without a doubt it was rigged.
It was rigged against the progressive left.
It was rigged against third-party candidates.
It was rigged against the working class.

It just wasn't rigged against Trump or Biden.

Share
up
31 users have voted.

Comments

...proper credit.."
neera.jpg

up
10 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit

Let us hope that Sneera's position in the OMB is a silent one. I can't stand to read anything she says,, but listening to her is much worse.

Jimmy has been having fun exposing Sneera. Hillary is running a lot of this crap behind the scenes. As is Obomber.

From this morning.

up
13 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

Shahryar's picture

@gjohnsit

right? gee, I hope so

up
4 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

@Shahryar Anyone here got corroboration for the Hitler tweet?

up
4 users have voted.

"Every election is fake." -- Janna Ordonia, from "Star vs. the Forces of Evil"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Shahryar

up
4 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Shahryar

up
0 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit

up
3 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit

missed this. Go figure.

up
4 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@gjohnsit In watching some footage of German soldiers recollecting they would talk about fighting the Bolsheviks. As I read more about Nazi propaganda, it came out clearly that the Nazis equated Jews with Bolsheviks. The Nazis believed that it was thee "Judo-Bolsheviks" who controlled the Soviet Union. In reading a translated version of Hitler's speech justifying the invasion of the Soviet Union, he kept referring to the "Judo-Bolsheviks". Looks like the two words were compounded in German as one unit. Have to look more into the propaganda of Germany in the 1930s. Not sure how often the Nazis used the term communist. (In retrospect I think those aging ex-soldiers equated Jews with Bolsheviks but knew better to say it out loud.)

up
6 users have voted.

@MrWebster Judeo-Bolsheviks. Yes Jews and Commisars were to be executed immediately but it was no secret to the rank and file that the inferior Slavs were to be starved to death to feed the Reich's army. Documents from the top expected millions to die.

up
4 users have voted.

Orwell: Where's the omelette?

Pluto's Republic's picture

@gjohnsit

You are overlooking the facts.

The 2016 election was also rigged. The exit polls were also wildly distorted in very specific, statistically impossible ways.

U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies Fit Chronic Republican Vote-Count Rigging, not Random Statistical, Patterns

This discussion is about the Federal Presidential election, I think people are clear on that,

I know that I am not confusing rigged Federal elections with the Party Primaries that act as fund raisers for these privately-owned Political Clubs. The political Parties are not part of any legal government process. They run their "show elections" free of government oversight and regulations. The outcomes of these mock elections are neither legally-binding nor Constitutional. These are private Clubs engaged in the political influencing racket to benefit the industrialists and the media monopolies. They are aligned with the war prprofiteers and imperialists and have — throughout their history — consistently bamboozled and sabotaged their gullible Members.

This discussion is focused on Federal Elections and the fact that every presidential election in the 21st century has been rigged. That's a matter of public record.

No one is cutting Trump slack. That thought makes no sense at all.

Perhaps the confusion starts here: The candidate who was cheated in rigged 2020 election was Joe Biden and not Donald Trump. That rigging effectively cut off the Democratic President's coattails in the Congress. The Democrats will do even worse in 2022 midterms.

The point of intellectual honesty, here, is the recognition and acceptance of the mathematical demonstration indicating that the US elections have been rigged at the polls. But not by the people at the top, running the Empire. Either Party candidate will meet their imperialist needs. It's rigged by the hopelessly corrupt greed of State cartels. Lack of Federal election oversight and consistent standards just begs for corruption.

I explain the rigging here and here.

Blaming Russia and China is merely a sign of brain damage. And the tragic laziness of mind that accompanies the condition.

up
4 users have voted.

"There will be no end to the troubles of States, or of Humanity itself, until Philosophers become Kings in this world — or until those we now call kings and rulers truly become Philosophers." — Plato

But it does not follow that the election was conducted honestly.

Trump and his various staff aides have said silly shit from hell since before taking office and there is plenty of reason to be skeptical of what they assert. I think it more likely that they are dumping bogus arguments on the media as part of the ongoing fraud of American politics as demonstrated by Russiagate.

Saying that Trump's claims are just as bogus as Russiagate does not really say anything good -- just that both parties are led by lying sacks of shit. But I already knew that.

I have seen the distinction made between the general election and the primary before. On that occasion some earnest message board character pointed out that the Dem cheating took place in States with Dem Secretaries of State. Busy fellows those State Election Czars. It also reminds of the guy on this board who posts tons of arguments proving that Trump's arguments are bogus. He even offered 250 bucks to anybody who could prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that this election was fixed.

I'm looking for someone to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the elections of 2000, 2004 and 2016 were fair and honest contests with no cheating of any kind. It would be a great relief to see that proof.

Trillions with a T dollars turn on who runs the Federal Government. In my job, I am required to watch Cyber Security Videos -- 47 of them so far. The one common thread through all of those lessons was that YOU CANNOT PREVENT HACKING. All you can do is make it more difficult. I laughed my ass off upon reading that old canard from Debunkers Unlimited -- it would take too many people to make such a big plot work.

This is the digital age and the money at stake is for all practical purposes infinite. So the budget for stealing a Presidential election is also infinite.

My own paranoia is that Trump is doing his job as assigned to the bitter end. He pisses off "liberals" and thereby disarms them politically. The Dems spent all four years fucking with his personality, and they are still fucking with his personality as he continues doing what he has done his whole public life -- being the biggest jerk in the history of the world. Not the most evil -- not by a long shot. Just the biggest jerk ever.

And as a jerk, he is going into exile carrying the blame for everything wrong in the world. Getting your panties into a bunch, yet again, over the wild shit he says is what he wants you to do.

From Russiagate to this very day, even on this very board, there are lots of voices who want to tell other "progressives" about how bad Trump is. Still. Go figure. With this exit strategy he discredits all skepticism of vote counting. Just as he discredits all skepticism of the Covid Narrative. Meticulously proving that "we" should not "buy into" the current story coming from Trump is very easy to do -- but that does not make it worth one's time to do so.
.

.


TDS Syllogism

Election voting is insecure
.
Insecure voting led to getting rid of Trump
.
.

Ergo: Complaining about insecure voting is pro-Trump

up
11 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

edg's picture

@fire with fire

He needs to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail post haste.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm looking for someone to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the elections of 2000, 2004 and 2016 were fair and honest contests with no cheating of any kind.

2000 was obviously unfair. Black voters in Florida were disenfranchised at record levels. 2004 maybe. 2016 probably not. "No cheating of any kind" is a very high standard compared to my "beyond a reasonable doubt".

up
6 users have voted.

@edg

What your challenge and mine have in common is that they are both ridiculous. Mine was comic exaggeration.

Cheers.

up
3 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

edg's picture

@fire with fire

Nobody has taken me up on it. Because I'd stomp their stupid election fraud claims into the ground.

up
0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@edg

The only fraud I care about. Because he who controls your menu controls your dinner.

https://caucus99percent.com/content/outside-asylum-32

That is not to say that I disagree with Pluto's Republic about primary "elections;" I think Pluto is spot on, but that doesn't mean that barefaced cheating cannot happen in the context of such private-club contests.

up
1 user has voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@edg .

Personal note to Mister Shut the Fuck Up:

OOOOHHH what a BADASS. You will stomp stuff into the ground!!!

How old are you, by the way? You talk shit like this but threaten to run to Daddy if I don't stop making fun of you. Bullies like you tend to be big crybabies.

Now you got something real to tattle on!!!! Go tell Daddy!!!!

up
0 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire @fire with fire
Many decades ago when I ran with some shady people a burglar told me "Any lock can be defeated." For instance later in life my neighbor was burglarized even though he had three of the most advanced locks. They sawed out the middle of the door. Someone else showed me on some houses you could pull off some siding and punch through the walls. If you think it through it's obvious that any barrier at all has its domain, or range of being, and you just have to know how to work outside that range. Any lock can be defeated, even if it's coding.

up
5 users have voted.

Orwell: Where's the omelette?

back when Kennedy (young Bobby?) and maybe Papantonio and a whole group of others were working on figuring out what happened in Ohio in 2004. They made a few interesting observations:
1- if you are going to try rig an election, you don't do ONE thing in ONE place. You do lots and lots of little things in different ways in different places. They may or may not be closely coordinated. Election officials in different places may autonomously engage in different forms of cheating knowing that it is an incredibly close election and that they are in a swing state.
2- often the cheating takes place where you are already winning. It is easier to take a precinct or county that you are going to win 70-30 and make it 85-15 then it is to go somewhere you are losing 15-85 and cheat your way to 70-30. The places you are already winning tend to be run by officials who would turn a blind eye to anything suspicious and the local media wouldn't bother to poke into details.
3- it might take months and even years of careful analysis to figure out how and where the cheating happened, and it might never be totally provable.
My recollection of Ohio 2004 was that they were able to look at certain elements of the vote and compare them to the Presidential election. That year there was a ballot referendum on gay marriage and there was a very conservative judge in a statewide race (IIRC). What they were able to show was that in most precincts those votes would either match or mirror the presidential race almost to the number. So in 70% of precincts a vote yes on gay marriage meant a vote against Bush. So you could see these patterns- 70-30 on gay marriage, 30-70 on Bush. But then there would be these outliers where it would be 30-70 on gay marriage which would tell you that Bush should have gotten 70% of the vote there. But in fact he would have gotten 85%.
This is just all from memory. I read up on the subject several years after the election and I think many people believed that not only did Kerry win Ohio but he likely won a couple of other states too.
I don't doubt that this election had all sorts of cheating going on. I highly doubt that much of it harmed Trumps cause. I would guess most of it benefitted Trump. Including the part of the Dems doing whatever it is that they did to defeat Bernie in the primary, giving Trump a much easier path to reelection.
Considering that several issues that had 70% support (govt run healthcare, pot legalization, 15$ min wage)were on the table, had Trump chosen to pick up one of those issues he would have breezed to victory.
I think Caitlin J is correct that elections aren't a competition to see who can do a better job serving us, but rather a choreographed event where the two parties work together to get us to accept worse and worse conditions.

up
12 users have voted.

@wouldsman just to add to my guess that any cheating likely benefitted Trump and Dems,
there was a great reply yesterday to a thread here that showed that exit polling seems to consistently show that the more conservative candidates almost always outperform exit polls.
Considering that most establishment Dems are working hard to push the D party further and further to the right it is not hard to believe that the D's are happy to be handicapped by 5-10% in any given race.
If HRC was cheated in 2016 why would she even care? The country would be run by a personal friend who have fairly similar positions and interests.

up
6 users have voted.

@wouldsman
"If the DNC had rigged the election for Biden, then why didn't they rig the down-ballot elections?"
Doncha think that's an enormous oversight?

Incompetence? If that's the case, then how could they have coordinated a nationwide election rigging?

up
5 users have voted.

@gjohnsit

Another simple answer comes from looking at the votes in Congress since the Shrub years. The Neoliberal Era Congress is controlled mainly by campaign contributions and occasional bullshit in the primaries. The BushObama Administration just took four years off and is now being returned to power with a kind of vindication that they never could have earned on their own without Trump tossing all those turds into the national punchbowl.

So long as one conceptualizes this as a battle between two contending parties, nothing makes any sense at all. But once you realize that Dems and Repubs are part of a single party, it starts to make sense. There are also other reasons why monied manipulators might tip the election to Trump in 2016 and then against him in 2020. He has served their interests perfectly as President, and now he will serve their interests perfectly in exile as Ex-President Emanuel Goldstein.

Emmanuel Goldstein is a fictional character in George Orwell's 1949 dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. He is the principal enemy of the state according to the Party of the totalitarian Oceania. He is depicted as the head of a mysterious and possibly fictitious dissident organization called "The Brotherhood" and as having written the book The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism. He is only seen and heard on telescreen, and may be a fabrication of the Ministry of Truth, the State's propaganda department.

.
.

All this personality driven bullshit is how the oligarchy keeps either party from bothering them.

up
6 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire
That's certainly an interesting theory.
But if that's the case, then why not rig the presidential election to lose too?

This is starting to sound like 11th-dimentional chess.

up
4 users have voted.
edg's picture

@gjohnsit

As we witnessed when Obama had both a Democratic Senate and House, he still didn't get much done.

up
4 users have voted.

@edg Well he made the bankers whole, oversaw the foreclosure crisis and shut out single payer advocates!

up
8 users have voted.
edg's picture

@BORG_US_BORG

I amend my comment to "he didn't get much done for the little people who voted him in".

up
6 users have voted.
edg's picture

@gjohnsit

None of the Election Truthers have been able to come up with a believable answer.

up
5 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

@gjohnsit  
(1) although various kinds of rigging had been prepared in advance, the turnout for Trump was larger than the Dems had planned for, so (2) local Dem machines in swing states were forced to stop the count and wait to see how many additional fake ballots they would need to create; (3) unexpectedly being forced to improvise under great pressure, those working to create the new fake ballots only had time to mark the top race and nothing else.

Personally, I have been skeptical about every U.S. election ever since reading the comedic novel Let George Do It! as a kid in the late 1950s, a book by Foster Furcolo, who served two terms as a Democratic governor of Massachusetts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster_Furcolo

Desire and intent to keep things honest just isn’t there. “Only idealists and children believe that” — “Do whatever you have to win” — “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing” (iconic pro football coach VInce Lombardi) — have been touted as the realist, adult attitude since forever.

up
5 users have voted.

@gjohnsit I've seen to rebut the charge. Head-smackingly obvious point. Worth raising everywhere.

up
4 users have voted.

Orwell: Where's the omelette?

@wouldsman
You can also hide election fraud in places where you lose - ie. no one would look if Trump lost Detroit 70-30 rather than 75-25. You just have to be further up the line. But FL 2000 was even easier - Kathleen Harris simply chose numbers that sounded reasonable and declared Bush the winner. No one but wacky Rudy and the Log Lady got coverage when they questioned this election, so some people could say anything they wanted. (this does not say they did. The huge vote total - Biden's total, 10 million more votes than Obama 2008, the previous record, was much more likely caused by the virus allowing much more mail in ballots)
BTW Biden got 13% more votes than Obama 2008, but Trump got 14% more than he did in 2016. Trump wasn't cheated, he lost because it was so easy to vote this time even people who would normally not bother voted, and broke 2-1 for Biden.

up
8 users have voted.

On to Biden since 1973

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@wouldsman

I saw it. Not surprising, given that Jeb Bush was still in charge of FL; I don't know how anybody could think that he *wouldn't* rig it for his brother again; nothing bad happened to him the first time he did it. But nobody paid any attention to what was happening in FL, so everybody still thinks "But it happened (only) in Ohio in 2004!" if they think anything happened at all.

OTOH, since we're all baseball buddies with Bush now, I guess racist election fraud and digital Jim Crow are OK. And, after all, it was all so long ago. Who cares what happened 20 years ago? (Racism apparently has a sell-by date).

up
13 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@wouldsman

2- often the cheating takes place where you are already winning. It is easier to take a precinct or county that you are going to win 70-30 and make it 85-15 then it is to go somewhere you are losing 15-85 and cheat your way to 70-30. The places you are already winning tend to be run by officials who would turn a blind eye to anything suspicious and the local media wouldn't bother to poke into details.

We were in one of the most Republican counties in FL, where nobody had run for local office as a Democrat for ten years.

up
5 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Raggedy Ann's picture

in favor of the corporations and never in favor of the 99%. Period. Pleasantry

up
10 users have voted.

"We must be willing to let go of the life we have planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." E.M.Foster

@Raggedy Ann
Notice how the Trump campaign and GOP is calling for sweeping election reforms in response to all this fraud.

Just like the Dems pushed through election reforms in response to Russiagate.

Oh, wait...Nevermind.

up
13 users have voted.
edg's picture

@gjohnsit

A lot of the fraud claims being bandied about now are the same as those James O'Keefe and Defend the Vote and others have been pushing for many, many years. They picked up on the memes Democrats started after the 2000 election and repurposed them for the GOP.

up
5 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

that computers were hacked to give Biden delegates he didn't deserve? The whole "run a dozen candidates, then have them all endorse Biden at the right moment" is a dirty trick verging on practical joke, to be sure, but one which I am guessing will only work once, and not quite yet at the level of election fraud.

up
10 users have voted.

"Every election is fake." -- Janna Ordonia, from "Star vs. the Forces of Evil"

edg's picture

@Cassiodorus

Not in the vote counts necessarily, but in how the anointed candidate wins even though there are better candidates available. In an honest primary, Biden should've been an asterisk in a footnote. But suddenly he's the winner and the guy anointed Democratic candidate for president.

up
6 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

@edg I want evidence of actual fraud in the vote count.

up
1 user has voted.

"Every election is fake." -- Janna Ordonia, from "Star vs. the Forces of Evil"

@Cassiodorus that would not be the only way to cheat though. Purging voters is a very easy way to cheat. I live in MN so it wouldn't work here because we can same day register and vote no matter what. But in many states if you are not on the voter rolls on Election Day then you vote wont count. They may give you a "provisional ballot" to get you to leave peacefully but those are rarely counted. Greg Palast has done some great work on the vote purging as a way of cheating.
Back in the 2016 primary it was found out that the Dem party purged around 100,000 voters in a part of NY city that would have gone heavily for Bernie. This was litigated and proven to be the case. A judge did determine that the Dem party wrongfully purged those voters.
Regarding some of the previous comments about why, if the Dems are capable of cheating then why don't they cheat down ballot? I am not sure the Dems are capable of cheating in the general, but if you look up that story from NY you know they are capable of cheating in the primary. And if you recall Pete's premature victory declaration in Iowa then you know something was afoot there too.

up
8 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

@wouldsman If I recall correctly, however, it's the most criminally-liable one.

up
2 users have voted.

"Every election is fake." -- Janna Ordonia, from "Star vs. the Forces of Evil"

Hi, I've enjoyed your comments for a long time. Thank you.
I disagree about "no evidence." Have you read the Powell filings and the attachments? I find them convincing, a preponderance of evidence, as they say. I'm from New York, and I have no use for Trump or his policies. It is easy to dismiss everything he says or is connected with. Too easy. The democrats take no responsibility for the conditions which led to his presidency. They are not figures of rectitude.
It is ironic and unfortunate (IMO) that, in this issue (the election), Trump (IMO) is right. I don't think an impartial judge could conclude from the evidence that the election wasn't stolen. This is a real problem, because a large portion of the public agrees that it was. If the evidence is ignored and half the public concludes that voting is meaningless, who knows what will happen? Probably not a good future for American democracy.
Hopefully there will be an open and extensive airing of the evidence. Hopefully the massive collusion of the main stream media will soften and allow differing points of view. It isn't likely, but one can hope.
Thanks again for your hard work. Respectfully, etc.

up
10 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

@wetterau  
That’s pretty much what I think too.

up
4 users have voted.

@wetterau

and agree with lotlizard's Mahalo, even though I haven't read Powell's filings and attachments. The leaked DNC emails show that during the 2016 primaries, the DNC entered into agreements with state officials to close polling places in order to disadvantage Sanders voters. The emails were also evidence of money laundering, and in response to a lawsuit over that issue, the DNC responded that they could choose their candidate in a Smoke-filled Room if they wanted to, implying their actions were traditional and thus not illegal.

The idea that the Party would not cheat is therefore laughable. The idea that a Party run by the war machine, an industry that burns the flesh off of children for money, would not cheat is inconceivable.

up
4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Linda Wood

Wouldn’t it be funny if democrats got busted on both Russia Gate and election fraud? Either one of them should be watergate territory, but both together? Wowzer as they say. That is if there is a functional justice system left.

up
4 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

@snoopydawg someone in a wheelchair and the Media doesn't mention it, is it a scandal?

up
4 users have voted.

Orwell: Where's the omelette?