PCR-Based Covid Testing Has Failed, plus, Censorship

The first part of the title is the heading for a memo four prominent doctors have written in order to brief Members of Parliament in the UK. I have provided a link to that memo below, as reproduced on the UK website, Lockdown Skeptics.

You may ask, why have I linked to a document intended for British law makers? The issue is the accuracy and validity of the PCR tests used to diagnose Covid19 in the general population, as well as in hospital. We use the same tests here in the USA, as does most of the world. These tests are used to diagnose "cases" of Covid19, so when you see media reports that cases are going up or down, they are reporting on the results of these PCR tests. These results then affect government policy--whether businesses can stay open or have to close, if certain areas are locked down, etc. Obviously, it is important that the testing produce accurate results and in general be fit for the purpose. The problem is, they are not.

A quote from the introduction of the memo:

The problem

Across Europe, including in the UK, we see the following:

Daily ‘cases’ sky-rocketed in Europe as Autumn arrived.
Daily deaths labelled as ‘Covid deaths’ rose in line with ‘cases’ – to levels apparently higher than at the Spring peak.
BUT: Total all-cause mortality does not reflect the above.

What is behind this conundrum?

The central thesis of this paper is that we have a major problem with PCR-testing.

This is distorting policy and creating the illusion that we are in a serious pandemic when in fact we are not.

This is causing:

Excess deaths due to restricted access to the NHS.
An NHS staffing crisis which is exacerbating matters.
Unprecedented assaults on civil liberties and the economy.

What we need to do about this:

Stop mass-testing using PCR in the UK and replace with Lateral Flow Tests where required.
Other recommendations as detailed later in this document.

It should be noted that legal cases and technical challenges to PCR mass-testing are growing across Europe, including in the UK.

The following four doctors have written the memo:

Clare Craig BM BCh FRCPath
Jonathan Engler MBChB LLB
Mike Yeadon BSc Hons (Biochem-tox) PhD (Pharmacol)
Christian McNeill LL.B and Dip LP

These are all distinguished doctors, but Mike Yeadon is worth a special mention; he was Vice President and Chief Scientist of Pfizer, one of the worlds biggest pharmaceutical companies, for 16 years. You do not get and keep a job like that without being world class in your area.

Here is a link to the memo: https://lockdownsceptics.org/pcr-based-covid-testing-has-failed-us/

Now for the censorship part. Dr. Mike Yeadon put out a video on YouTube, discussing his thoughts as to why the lockdown (in the UK) was a mistake, and why the government strategies to manage the pandemic are only making things worse. After a short time, YouTube took down his video--never mind that he is eminently qualified to speak about such issues, and that we should hear varied points of view on such important subjects. At this writing, you can still view the video on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=409747283542470

Censorship, part 2: I make no claim to being a distinguished doctor. Regardless, you would think that I and you and anyone else should be able to put up a post just like what you see above, pointing to information by valid sources, on say, Kossacks for Sanders, which regularly hosts all sorts of posts regarding political issues. I did so yesterday--I put up a post nearly identical to this one on Kossacks for Sanders. It was subsequently removed and I was permanently banned. No explanation was given. Here is the notice they put in my account:

subreddit message via /r/Kossacks_for_Sanders[M] sent 17 hours ago

You have been permanently banned from participating in r/Kossacks_for_Sanders. You can still view and subscribe to r/Kossacks_for_Sanders, but you won't be able to post or comment.

If you have a question regarding your ban, you can contact the moderator team for r/Kossacks_for_Sanders by replying to this message.

Reminder from the Reddit staff: If you use another account to circumvent this subreddit ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole.

I would have contacted the moderators to find out why they banned me, but they also muted my account for three days so that I could not do so. Apparently, by posting a link to an article questioning the suitability of PCR testing for diagnosing Covid19, no matter by how distinguished and respectable a source, I have committed wrong-think. This is the world we live in now. I encourage everyone to commit wrong-think as well and check out the memo by the doctors. It is clearly written and will give much food for thought.

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snoopydawg's picture

Russia Today. (Gasp), but I’ve been reading how the PCR test is not that valid since the epidemic started. I’m pretty sure I’ve read it here too. Others have said that focusing on 'cases' instead of‘something' else gives a false picture. Maybe someone can fill in my blanks?

If anyone has a problem with any type of information then they can debate it with their own facts. Banning anyone because you don’t like what they say is wrong. I hope the mods get back to you and at least open a dialogue. I doubt that there is anyone there that has the qualifications to tell you that you’re wrong. Especially since scientists are still debating it themselves.

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12 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

@snoopydawg So far as I can tell, you are referring to an article in RT about four tourists:

Four German holidaymakers who were illegally quarantined in Portugal after one was judged to be positive for Covid-19 have won their case, in a verdict that condemns the widely-used PCR test as being up to 97-percent unreliable.

It's a perfectly good article, but it is not about the memo to Members of Parliament that I refer to.

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snoopydawg's picture

@out of left field

It was more the PCR test that I was thinking of.

Thanks.

ps: you’re a Russian bot too? Cool.

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6 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

thanatokephaloides's picture

Sometimes I think I sound like a skipping record. But it's the case: In my experience, Reddit users are among the worst cases of hive-think I've ever known. Conform or die.

Now, at least here in the USA, Covid-19 is at serious pandemic levels, with matching mortalities and morbidities, regardless of how tested. But that's no excuse for censuring a quest for the most accurate information possible.

edit: snoopydawg said it best:

I doubt that there is anyone there that has the qualifications to tell you that you’re wrong. Especially since scientists are still debating it themselves.

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9 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

edg's picture

A report on Lockdown Sceptics will be dismissed as biased by many people. The same as a report on Trump Sux Big Time asserting that he kicks puppies and smothers babies would be taken with a grain of salt by rational people. The Drs. should relaunch as TruthInScience.org or something like that.

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6 users have voted.

@edg was reporting on the memo and republishing it. You can either agree or disagree with the contents of the memo written by the doctors. The Lockdown Skeptics web site reproduced it as is. As it is a web site that has reported a great deal of relevant information about the pandemic, usually quite accurately, I see no reason why anyone should object to them publishing the memo. The four doctors, in writing their memo, were aiming at members of the UK parliament, not the general public. However, I would think they would welcome public interest in their document.

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edg's picture

@out of left field

(British spelling, not American) is a dumb name that people with a half measure of intelligence can't take seriously. It ranks up there with AntivaxxersCollege.edu and FlatEarthSociety.com.

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7 users have voted.

I have read other things about the flaws in PCR. As anecdotal, where I work currently we've had a couple of positive cases. But many, many that did not end up positive and until lately no one who got really sick. We mask at work, do all the protocol, and a couple weeks ago the owner of the company had it, and he did get sick. Flu, fever, extreme fatigue and had to stay home. So anyone showing any type of symptom, gets tested. One of the women I work with had a false positive, she was told that they run the test in batches and because someone in her batch may be positive, she had a second test. Negative. From what I have read about PCR it was no real surprise to me they run that in batches, makes sense to try to expedite the results while people have to wait it out at home. But cynical as I am, I can't help but wonder if her first "positive" was part of a statistic. Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's not like there's been no evidence of inflating positive test results either. "Accidentally" of course... And as the article states, as well as others I have read, PCR picks up fragments of virus and does not distinguish between living virus or dead. It does not show one's viral load either, which from what I have read is much more of a true indicator of whether one is really sick from a virus, or not.

The hype around numbers sure should make us all at the very least question the testing methodology. Especially since, whether we like it or not, we're all part of a capitalist economy. Lockdowns are most likely killing more than the virus. And we do know our "medical industry" in this country as well as many others, is financially "compromised" shall we say? And that the ownership class is busy consolidating their wealth as we speak, while we're all terrified of leaving the house? We can and should have an honest debate about that, but that's just not gonna happen. The stakes for our owners are too high, they're about to have a lot more control over our every movement than they've ever had due to it. It divides and conquers nicely, and even with one of their vaccines the only thing one gets out of that is some supposed immunity to the worst effects. You can still "spread it" so masks aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Neither are the informal "enforcers" of said mask, which to me is truly scary in so many ways.

And I'm sorry, but that mask represents a lot more than just some infection inhibitor. It does things psychologically, whether we want to see that or not. It is a measure of just how far "the people" will let our owners go, for our own good, of course. And how many will resort to the tracing apps now becoming available? So much easier to detect the infected enemy while the real owners make bank. A slippery slope to all kinds of new things, indeed.

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12 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7

PCR picks up fragments of virus and does not distinguish between living virus or dead. It does not show one's viral load either, which from what I have read is much more of a true indicator of whether one is really sick from a virus, or not.

I’d thought that by now they would have come up with a good test that was used by every state. Wasn’t there some hijinks around who’s test was going to be used? The WHO had one early on, but the CDC wanted to use its own test that wasn’t ready yet nor was it as good?

It’s one thing to change things because you’ve learned more, it’s another to do it because someone wants you to. The quarantine period is supposed to be 14 days if you’re not sick and a certain number after you get better. But now the CDC is being pressured to not keep people at home as long. They now recommend only 7 days. Why? Because too many people are off work and it’s interfering with profits. The country just went through a huge uptick in cases and deaths. Utah had 26 deaths one day this week and the numbers are finally starting to come down. Yesterday was Super Spreader thanksgiving so of course we will see higher numbers next week or so, but the PTB Are pushing for kids to go back to school. It makes more sense to keep kids offline until after Xmas. By then the numbers might be manageable. But then that makes sense.

Lockdowns are most likely killing more than the virus.

I posted a link in the EBs on how evictions for 5 months has caused close to 11,000 deaths. Rising covered the increase of deaths from suicide and drug over doses because of people’s financial situations. Damn congress for going on another f’cking vacation while people are hurting. Damn them to the 9th circle of hell! Do you think that they are not aware of the numbers? Sure they are. They just don’t care. I can’t think of another country who’s government hates its citizens as much as ours does.

The stakes for our owners are too high, they're about to have a lot more control over our every movement than they've ever had due to it.

Amen. They saw how much money they were losing because of the lockdown so people didn’t die and that couldn’t be allowed. Back in March the governors met and came up with their game plan for how they would do Covid and that’s when the plan to reopen was agreed on. My governor said that we’d only reopen when cases got below 300. It wasn’t even half that when he did. And he only did mandatory masks this month or late last one. 9 months after it started. They do not care one iota whether we live or die. BTW a veterans retirement home recently had 27 deaths.
Im reading how nursing homes are cutting staff because they lost so many patients. Well duh.

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9 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg

Hatred of do-nothing government was the main reason why Trump won in 2016, and why he almost squeaked by again in 2020. The rage will continue to build as Biden/Harris continue to do nothing. This will not end well.

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13 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

snoopydawg's picture

@TheOtherMaven

At least that’s what the libs tell me. 80 million people voted for Trump because they’re racist. Every. One. Of. Them. Anyone with a brain knows that isn’t true. It was mostly because of how it was because they were left behind after 8 years of Obama. Hillary was just offering the same things. No thanks.

And you’re right. The anger is building especially with the young people who have gotten totally screwed. 40 years of government rigging things against them and I can’t imagine starting my life with so many things stacked against me. It won’t make them feel any better, but the next generation is going to be even more screwed. Since the new deal was passed the PTB have been dismantling it and making the country work for them.

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8 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

edg's picture

@snoopydawg

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6 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@TheOtherMaven

The rage will continue to build as Biden/Harris continue to do nothing.

I was always troubled, even as a kid, by the part of the Declaration of Independence that read:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

.

What kind of people need to hit rock bottom before they wake up and do anything to correct the situation? Why weren't they protecting the next generation from the same harm?

I used to think, "Ugh. Those people were dumb. I hope their descendants haven't polluted the gene pool."

Turns out they did.

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7 users have voted.

"There will be no end to the troubles of States, or of Humanity itself, until Philosophers become Kings in this world — or until those we now call kings and rulers truly become Philosophers." — Plato

classic FUD. lockdowndenial.org, eh?
Freethinkers like climate "skeptics". Suddenly a corporate spokesthing overrides global science.

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10 users have voted.
ovals49's picture

that create unnecessary deaths, but our governments failure to provide for those unable to continue to work because of the lockdown? There are several examples of countries who imposed “draconian” lockdowns who did provide for their population and experienced a much quicker return to a functional economy with far fewer fatalities per million.

You are free to choose to blame our COVID shit show on the lockdowns, and I can choose to see our government’s failure to care for the needs of our population during these lockdown’s as the larger problem, and the primary cause of the additional suffering the American people have, and will continue to experience. While Wall Street sucks on the giant teat of government, it is the people who are expected to tough it out, lose their homes, their jobs and far too many of their friends and family.

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21 users have voted.

"An oligarchy of private capital cannot be effectively checked.... because under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information."
-- Albert Einstein

enhydra lutris's picture

@ovals49

YEP, it is not the so-called "lockdowns", which are nothing whatsoever of the sort, but the failure of the government to provide income support, rent & mortgage subsidies, PP & E, and all of the other necessities. They have chosen to instead funnel bilions to corporatins, corporate CEO's and the war machine, but that is a conscious decision of the oligarchs.

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14 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

I haven't chimed in on this until now, and wasn't going to, until this showed up this morning. It's originally from the Atlantic.

Why many pandemic restrictions make no sense

Testing is a tool. Tools don't have to be perfect or even be intended for the job we are forced to use them to do. They only need to be somewhat useful. I've used the handle of a screwdriver for a hammer more than once when I didn't have a hammer at hand. I can't drive 16 penny nails but I can drive tacks, though imperfectly.

We've known that testing for this virus has been sketchy since the first tests appeared. That has changed with decent results considering that this is a new pathogen. There was a critical need for a test to help identify infected people. Imperfect is far better than nothing. A false negative test is a potentially bigger problem than an accurate or false positive test. With PCR there was at least a tool to help identify those who needed to take increased precautions and help the docs decide who should get precious medical attention and supplies. Anything else or nothing was/is no better than a WAG.

Anyone who demands perfection in testing or accurate numbers of cases or deaths is naive or ignorant at best and a fool at worst. Its impossible. Identifying the number of cases and deaths is also only a tool. Health officials need those kinds of numbers to learn about the characteristics of virus to make decisions from where it's going to where to focus limited resources. It's hard for some of us to accept that these are not our decisions to make. It's too bad we don't trust the experts, it's too bad there are many experts and those in power who are untrustworthy, but that's what we have been dealing with.

Testing like contact tracing, distancing rules, lockdowns, and all the other stuff the US has repeatedly screwed the pooch on are all simply tools. What tools we have is far less important than how we use what we have. The US has done almost everything possible poorly, criminally so I would say. Yet, here we are again talking about tools not how they were used. Hand wringing over the lot we've been dealt is really a waste of time and energy, physical and emotional. Stress, that is.

Some countries with decent leaderships and populations who are special snowflakes with their own personal version of reality have done really, really well protecting their populations. They are using the same imperfect tools that some of us have to kibutz about incessantly. How is that possible if the tools suck? That's another essay. And food fight probably. The bottom line is that the failures have been in the people whose jobs it was to manage pandemics. And us.

The only personal chance of a path to safety is using PPE and limiting our exposure. Everything else is utterly meaningless. Use it, don't. That is the only thing any of us have any power over - us inside our meat suits.

On another topic: censorship. Being banned from Reddit would be a badge of honor to me. But then I don't go there. A few times was enough to know it's a swamp of trolls who love having a place to shout nonsense and argue loudly. That most have nothing worth hearing doesn't matter. It's where they want to be, it's their swamp. I don't care for wallowing in swamps or listening to those with nothing to say worth hearing. My point is that being banned from a privately owned website is not censorship. Their site, their rules. If they don't want to hear what you have to say and tell you to fuck off it's their choice. Accept it an move on. A big thing I took away from TOP (that other place) was to avoid places and people that don't want me. It's a pretty good lesson.

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16 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@vtcc73 Sure, we are talking about the complete reordering of society, massive consolidation of wealth and ownership, all our "education" to be done online while we hunker down in fear of our neighbors, every move tracked and traced, but hey, if we have to use flawed tools and believe in the owners who tell us we MUST use them, who have never had our "best interests" at heart, just go with it and do not think about it because that makes you just a loud mouth pain in the ass who will not just get on board. A supremely selfish murderer who only cares about your income, never mind you're about to be homeless, how dare you question the Science that our owners have provided for us. While some want to quibble endlessly about whose "fault" it all is, we do not even bother to question IF this pandemic is really lethal enough to allow our entire lives to be reordered. And in case you're thinking that I mean this as a good corporate tool, then you are missing the point.

Our owners are consolidating their wealth and holdings as we speak. While we argue over whether "lockdown" is the right word, of if that killed anyone, or if "those people" are just good corporate tools who want to make millions for our owners, that consolidation goes on to its ultimate end, you will own nothing and be happy and you will live, or die, at the largesse of our owners, who only have your best interests at heart. And for heaven's sake, we simply cannot use some site that might have some "right wing" tendencies because they all lie, except maybe that time they did tell the truth about some corrupted Democrats which turned out to be actually true, but THIS TIME is different. This time we cannot listen to them because they are simply science deniers, never mind the actual science of that merely flawed test might just be entirely faulty, just ignore the nay sayers and call the cops on your neighbors if they have too many people over to their house.

And now, we will all have a nice little app that will tell us who the infected are so we can avoid them, if not call the authorities on them because some app says they've been "infected" and we MUST abide by that because the tech Gods surely have our best interests at heart.

Censorship? Why, be glad you got banned from some loony right wing site, yay! Of course, our media censors not only right wing lunatics but those who see through the smoke and mirrors of our good old Democracy, but surely that's not a problem and after all, they own the media so it is their right. How can anyone question that we live in Democracy? The skepticism of the CT loons just never ceases to amaze, yeah? We VOTED, so of course we live in a Democracy, duh.... Censorship is fine and dandy when one is merely censoring a loon, and who is and is not a loon will be determined by your sponsors, for your own good, of course, how can you not see that you fool? Right is bad, Left is good. War is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. Ignorance is Bliss....

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7 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

@lizzyh7 I may have touched a nerve.

It's also obvious you don't know squat about me or know where I'm coming from. Let me try to simplify for you.

This essay is reporting on a claim made by four doctors who claim that the inaccuracy of the PCR tests have lead to horrible decisions with respect to how governments reacted to the pandemic. With me so far. Have I missed anything? I think you will readily agree that this goes counter to much of the rest of the world and the consensus, to the extent there is one, of the medical and scientific community. That it is some great scientific revelation is not true. It is the opinion based on the opinions of four doctors with unknown purposes. That one of their main claims is with respect to the injuries to the economies of every nation in the world rather than the science and the characteristics of the responses by countries who have most successfully protected the health of their populations is a red flag to me. It should be to you as well.

I don't give a truckload of fucks about the politics or half a fuck about the economic effects. Dead people do not recover from the virus or the damaged lifestyles of all of us. Those who have gone before us have recovered from far worse than this pandemic but we have to be alive to recover. So please save your assumptions about any of my supposed political motivations you seem to attach to my comment. None of our problems with our society, democracy, and people suddenly bloomed with Covid. The faults and flaws are certainly more plain to see in the aftermath. We don't have to like it or support what's going on but we're going to live it. But only if we stay alive.

You want to have a discussion about censorship? Great. There is a huge hole in the law with respect to what is official censorship and what is the privilege of a corporation running the various social media sites. The lines have been impossibly blurred between private commercial activity and official dictates by government when those who run government are also those who own and run the corporations. To my way of thinking we live in more of a fascist system than a democratic one. To be sure, I don't care who is actually censored, loon or savant, it's neither healthy nor right. I'd personally prefer people say what they're thinking. I learn exactly who they really are that way.

Who cares what I think, right? That's not the law or our reality. YouTube and Reddit and Facebook and all of these sites currently have the right to decide what you can say and whether you can use their services. Don't like it? BFD. Your choice is comply or get pitched out on your ass. Deal with it. Neither of us has to like it but we also have no choice. My choice is don't use their sites. We can stew or rage about it but we do not have the power to change it.

lizzyh7, I'm watching a lot of really good people here continually getting screwed into the ceiling over their personal flavor of the day. I see signs of really stressed people that I don't like seeing. What four doctors out of millions say about PCR tests is something to consider then move on. There is no great revelation or a solution or something that will change how we live our lives today or in the near future. The tests and being butt hurt about supposed censorship we have no recourse, except to not participate, are not evidence of some grand scheme to screw us all. It confirming what we fear maybe. No more. YMMV but I have better things to do to get through my day and ensure there are more of those days than wrecking my sanity and health by not knowing when to step away.

I'm not your enemy or your opponent. You should know that you are way off base in your assumptions about what you think I was saying with most of what you wrote in your comment. You know what? That's OK.

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11 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

snoopydawg's picture

@vtcc73

Or anyone here. Seems to be a rant about how f’cked up everything is because there are too many conflicting views on how we survive this plague.

Lizzy isn’t the type of person that attacks others on this blog.

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6 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

@snoopydawg The best snark is hard to recognize. That's one more reason to cut people slack. I also have no problem making an amends if it's called for. Either way the history I have with lizzyh7, while minimal, is positive. I took no offense however it was intended.

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6 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@vtcc73

or a nice little nap that will spell us

Censorship is fine and dandy when one is merely censoring a loon, and who is and is not a loon will be determined by your sponsors, for your own good,

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7 users have voted.

@QMS can be hazardous to our health. I have no desire to censor anyone and I take no joy in anyone being censored. Contrary to recent suggestions.

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7 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@vtcc73

but you do not my friend
censorship is a touchy subject
which I prefer to dance around
the lunacy is there for all to hear
quick thinking and keeping sharp
thoughts close to the chest has
somehow become the reduction of our
effective communication

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6 users have voted.

@QMS or to "go away we don't want to hear it." In less touchy times more of us might be able to let it roll off our backs. It really is them not us most of the time. Of course, it is never a bad thing and take a look at our own part. This is just one more hint to how badly stressed people are. It's hard to watch. I have to remember to give people I know to be solid some extra slack.

And laugh. It's only when we stop laughing that things get really messed up. Things like #DiaperDon help reduce the level of insanity in this world.

Oh, and for the record I am a little crazy whether I sound like it or not.

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8 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Granma's picture

@QMS I think I've never see a picture of one before. Their call is haunting and peaceful.

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travelerxxx's picture

@Granma

The first time I ever saw a loon was in Newport, Oregon, right at the Pacific Ocean. Probably around 1980. I was walking, alone, on a rock jetty. It was pretty quiet and the sun was out. All of the sudden, and very close to me, this crazy black-and-white bird popped up from below the surface of the water. I recognized it immediately from pictures. I remember thinking to myself (and I wonder whether I said it aloud), "A damn loon!"

That loon evidently knew I had an interest in him, and so he did with me. Maybe he was teasing me – "Look at that idiot from Kansas! Probably never seen a loon before. Watch this, you landlocked Kansan, you..." And he proceeded to do crazy loon stuff.

After giving me a good looking over, he dove out of sight. When it seemed a very long time, he burst out of the water again. This time fifty yards from me and immediately dove again. In what seems too quick a time, he surfaced again, this time quite close. It was close enough that he startled me. Seemed to me that it was intentional. Maybe it was. He was a crazy loon, after all.

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5 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@vtcc73

We are getting conflicting information about what we should be doing and it doesn’t help that leaders are doing whatever the hell they want to do. Pelosi getting her hair done. Newsom going out to dinner with more people than he should have. Congress members flying without masks, roaming the halls of congress without masks and countless other incidents that make it seem like there are 2 sets of rules.

Closing churches while leaving other venues open doesn’t make sense either. It’s okay for thousands of people to protest while wearing masks, but not allowing people in churches with masks and social distancing? And I’m still coming back to schools being open, but not other places. We’ve seen pictures of students in crowded halls with no masks on and of course we saw the Trump rallies. Are they contact tracing people who went to them? Probably not. That’s never been a priority.

Meanwhile, case counts have risen enough to trigger the closure of New York City public schools, but businesses still have full discretion to require employees to come into work.

Again it’s the inconsistency that people say doesn’t make sense.

In Rhode Island, for example, residents are prohibited from gathering with even one person outside their household, even in the open air of a public park. But inside a restaurant? Well, 25 people is fine. Hire a caterer? You’re legally cleared to have up to 75 outdoors.

Ah well...everything will be fine once Biden becomes president. Right? After all our troubles only started the day Trump became president according to the Obama-bogs. Right?

Tell people it’s safe to return to bars and restaurants and spend money inside while following some often useless restrictions, but also tell them it’s unsafe to gather in their home, where nothing is for sale.

Thanks for the article!

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9 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

@snoopydawg I appreciate that people are confused and conflicted. Everything we hear, read, and see is suspect unless we happen to agree with it or want it to be true because it will lighten the burden of not getting sick and staying healthy/alive in a pandemic. Watching our lives unravel is strong incentive to bite on the slightest tidbit of hope it will end soon.

In my world it's pretty easy to separate the BS from what is best for me, friends, and family. (Fortunately those in our circle agree and are conscientious about taking precautions and avoiding unnecessary risk. I have a few friends with family members who are demanding that their high risk relatives go to weddings and holiday events because none of this is real. It's hard saying no but lives may depend on standing up to selfishness and idiocy.) There are three rules that the frontline medical troops follow: use appropriate, or the best available, PPE, wash your hands, and minimize/avoid contact with people who may be infected. We never know for sure who might be infected so minimize contact as much as possible. That third one is complicated but there isn't anyone on this site who can't figure out what risky behavior looks like. Anything that violates any of these three items increases risk no matter if it's some assclown publishing their incredible new discoveries/revelations on YouTube or a few former Big Pharma execs with MDs after their names casting doubt for whatever purpose. Anything that induces us to question the reality of this situation or creates doubt about how to protect ourselves increases our risk. How much risk we individually are willing or have to take due to circumstances is up to us to a point. Considering how much risk we might be to others is important although it gets left behind too often.

It's not like we've been hiding, cowering in the basement. We took a two day trip into Amazonia about two weeks ago with the owners of a large orchid grower/researcher who ships and lectures worldwide. His operation remained in operation throughout the six months of lockdown. There was no income from their large operation during the first two months but he was able to keep everyone on a rather large staff working safely and being paid. They took extraordinary and expensive precautions that seem to have been successful. (A couple were of dubious/unconfirmed benefit but were otherwise harmless.) There has not been a single case of Covid on the staff in the Andes, on the coast, or in Amazonia. Pepe has shown that his business can work and survive with this virus but only by developing and then following proper precautions.

We are taking an opportunity to spend a week in the Galapagos Islands before the return of big crowds in the new year. We talked about the risk and how to mitigate it while traveling. We feel confident we can be safe although there are unknowns we will face. I don't think any of us will fail to follow good practices or accept an unsafe situation. Still, there's risk that is not necessary. I honestly can't fully justify the risk but I accept the responsibility.

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5 users have voted.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

enhydra lutris's picture

"it's only a casedemic" and the testing is essentially 100 % false positives (guy says 50% and his enabler then explains how allthe rest are false too because ..." but it is pretty funny that a key piece of evidence is the earlier screed was that the deaths are not tracking, which is not the case in South Dakota or Nevada. PS, whether total deaths have increased by the number of covid deaths is meaningless, one can't die twice and staying at home "under lockdown" reduces the odds of traffic fatalities, skiing accidents and the like. The spikes we are seeing in many areas are not simply routine seasonal changes misidentified because of bad tests.

be well and have a good one.

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12 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

Kossacs for Bernie Reddit. One needs to be aware of where one is posting. SonsocConfederateVeterans.org, DNC.org, DNC.com, etc. KOssacs are pretty intolerant of free speech, which is a large part of why we are here. Reddit has a rep too. Yoy can call the ACLU, but that is a cse they definitely won't take.

be well and have a good one.

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6 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Roy Blakeley's picture

and it is so sad to see this site turn into a fountain of medical and scientific misinformation. And yes I do have the scientific credentials to make this statement. JTC deserves better.

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8 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Roy Blakeley

I am immersed in the science of Covid-19 and I read this same thread without alarm. Yes, the thread is mistrustful and disparaging of the cartel of scientists and corporatists that distribute information about public health in the US. It is focused on epidemic abatement policy, not medicine, and it displays some skepticism about advice coming from the same US public health authorities who failed so completely in curbing Covid-19. These are the same authorities who lied to the people about using masks to protect themselves from the virus, telling them that masks would harm them. The same CDC that spectacularly failed at developing SARS-CoV-2 tests, after they convinced the FDA to reject hundreds of submissions from labs that had developed more promising tests. The CDC could thus snag the contract to produce tests in their private-venture lab factory. It is the so-called Public Health system that has been anti-science, especially when it mattered most.

The life-saving research-based science about preventive drugs, prophylactic materials and devices, and preventive environmental mitigation is being actively stalled or withheld from the people. There are no educational PSA's telling people how to make or buy masks that will protect them from breathing in the SARS-CoV-2 viruses floating in the air, or teaching them how to fit masks to their faces so they actually function, or telling them how to remove them and where to dispose of them safely. No PSA's alerting people with illnesses like diabetes, and people over 50 years-old, to take daily Vitamin D3 supplements until the pandemic has ended. And no PSA's teaching people (or health care workers) how to block Covid-19 infection by using an iodine-based nasal spray before leaving their homes. No PSA's encouraging everyone to gargle with an iodine-based rinse three times daily to clear the viruses caught in their air passages before they expand into a viral load and become activated..

There are plenty of reasons for people to distrust the government and the scientists who work for them. Many reasons for them to realize that the Congress does not have their best interests as a First Principle of legislation. The things that people are starting to see with their own eyes, provides plenty of room for paranoia to seep in.

This, however, is hyperbole:

it is so sad to see this site turn into a fountain of medical and scientific misinformation.

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Nothing of the kind is happening at c99. If I saw it, I would step in to correct it. Many here would do the same. People feel safe to express their fears, here. Other people listen. This is a healthy thing. It will not bury the truth.

As a scientist, you must realize that the US is past the point of getting any sort of containment over the virus. There is no other credible scenario. We will be swimming in a soup of shed viruses in another month. US public policy will make that a certainty. The government has not provided places for cast-out People to shelter. They never provided the People with masks that work, or money for support in buying food and personal care. Every Canadian receives $1500 per month and health care on demand. Decent nations do not eject their people into a festering dystopia to fend for themselves or kill themselves in despair. But the die has been cast in the US. Vulnerable people will be thrown away like garbage. The psychopaths will survive.

The overly conservative rules of science have blocked effective common sense help from reaching the People. With help from the FDA, corporate and career sociopaths have blocked the care and information that the people need right now to survive. Science professionals are not proactive toward the public and they muzzle and censor themselves out of fear for their own careers. If they see an institutional wrong, they will not take the risk to correct it. They have seen other scientists destroyed when they try to do so. Scientists are not medical activists and avoid such discussions. They have their tight professional circles where they feel safe. Scientists may feel free to criticize the ignorance of Americans, who are kept in a state of ignorance about practices that affect their daily lives, such as economics or health sciences. But they should be alarmed that their nation produces such ignorance and demand a solution.

We need scientists to step in to the real world and empower people with common sense knowledge when and where the opportunity presents itself. The State has betrayed the People and the US dystopia is filling up fast.

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11 users have voted.

"There will be no end to the troubles of States, or of Humanity itself, until Philosophers become Kings in this world — or until those we now call kings and rulers truly become Philosophers." — Plato
snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

It is focused on epidemic abatement policy, not medicine, and it displays some skepticism about advice coming from the same US public health authorities who failed so completely in curbing Covid-19.

These are the same authorities who lied to the people about using masks to protect themselves from the virus, telling them that masks would harm them. The same CDC that spectacularly failed at developing SARS-CoV-2 tests....

And no PSA's teaching people to.......

Thank You.

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7 users have voted.

“Restoring the soul of this nation” is just MAGA with more words

Twitter is like a game of telephone

Dawn's Meta's picture

@Pluto's Republic contagion and the illness if we get it. Many are low cost available support. They are not guarantees, but they do altogether provide a greater range of safety. Giving up and waiting for a vaccine has been long already, and may be longer depending where on the priority one is found. And whether it really works, with low side effects.

It's in all of our interests to be proactive and know all the things we can do to mitigate possible infection, or the infection if we have it.

As some have suggested, with the preventative and better care of the ill, it would have been possible to have this new bug variant running around and still have jobs, work, school and other social activities.

The current situation looks like it will be a society-wide infection.

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5 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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I agree completely with Pluto's comment. Any views differing from those of the establishment are mocked and often censored. I was astounded when the FDA declared hydroxycloroquine a "dangerous drug." (Decades of safe usage around the world.) I ended up buying some from Singapore, using bitcoin! Ivermectin has since been shown to be more effective (taken with zinc, as in HCQ treatment, at the earliest symptoms of covid 19.) Bought some of that from India.
I am grateful to the few doctors who, when convinced of the value of this early treatment of covid 19 at the viral stage, made the effort to let us know (Dr Zelenko, Dr John Day, Dr Chris Martenson, Dr Biali? in Australia, and others). The internet has made this experience accessible in spite of censorship by you tube, facebook, mainstream TV news, etc. The narrowing space for open discussion is a bad sign (IMO). If it continues, we'll be tinkering with ham radios in the back yard.

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5 users have voted.
travelerxxx's picture

@wetterau

The internet has made this experience accessible in spite of censorship by you tube, facebook, mainstream TV news, etc. The narrowing space for open discussion is a bad sign (IMO). If it continues, we'll be tinkering with ham radios in the back yard.

Which is why I have ham radios and typewriters...

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4 users have voted.