@out of left field

It was more the PCR test that I was thinking of.

Thanks.

ps: you’re a Russian bot too? Cool.

#1 So far as I can tell, you are referring to an article in RT about four tourists:

Four German holidaymakers who were illegally quarantined in Portugal after one was judged to be positive for Covid-19 have won their case, in a verdict that condemns the widely-used PCR test as being up to 97-percent unreliable.

It's a perfectly good article, but it is not about the memo to Members of Parliament that I refer to.

@out of left field

(British spelling, not American) is a dumb name that people with a half measure of intelligence can't take seriously. It ranks up there with AntivaxxersCollege.edu and FlatEarthSociety.com.

#3 was reporting on the memo and republishing it. You can either agree or disagree with the contents of the memo written by the doctors. The Lockdown Skeptics web site reproduced it as is. As it is a web site that has reported a great deal of relevant information about the pandemic, usually quite accurately, I see no reason why anyone should object to them publishing the memo. The four doctors, in writing their memo, were aiming at members of the UK parliament, not the general public. However, I would think they would welcome public interest in their document.

@lizzyh7 I may have touched a nerve.

It's also obvious you don't know squat about me or know where I'm coming from. Let me try to simplify for you.

This essay is reporting on a claim made by four doctors who claim that the inaccuracy of the PCR tests have lead to horrible decisions with respect to how governments reacted to the pandemic. With me so far. Have I missed anything? I think you will readily agree that this goes counter to much of the rest of the world and the consensus, to the extent there is one, of the medical and scientific community. That it is some great scientific revelation is not true. It is the opinion based on the opinions of four doctors with unknown purposes. That one of their main claims is with respect to the injuries to the economies of every nation in the world rather than the science and the characteristics of the responses by countries who have most successfully protected the health of their populations is a red flag to me. It should be to you as well.

I don't give a truckload of fucks about the politics or half a fuck about the economic effects. Dead people do not recover from the virus or the damaged lifestyles of all of us. Those who have gone before us have recovered from far worse than this pandemic but we have to be alive to recover. So please save your assumptions about any of my supposed political motivations you seem to attach to my comment. None of our problems with our society, democracy, and people suddenly bloomed with Covid. The faults and flaws are certainly more plain to see in the aftermath. We don't have to like it or support what's going on but we're going to live it. But only if we stay alive.

You want to have a discussion about censorship? Great. There is a huge hole in the law with respect to what is official censorship and what is the privilege of a corporation running the various social media sites. The lines have been impossibly blurred between private commercial activity and official dictates by government when those who run government are also those who own and run the corporations. To my way of thinking we live in more of a fascist system than a democratic one. To be sure, I don't care who is actually censored, loon or savant, it's neither healthy nor right. I'd personally prefer people say what they're thinking. I learn exactly who they really are that way.

Who cares what I think, right? That's not the law or our reality. YouTube and Reddit and Facebook and all of these sites currently have the right to decide what you can say and whether you can use their services. Don't like it? BFD. Your choice is comply or get pitched out on your ass. Deal with it. Neither of us has to like it but we also have no choice. My choice is don't use their sites. We can stew or rage about it but we do not have the power to change it.

lizzyh7, I'm watching a lot of really good people here continually getting screwed into the ceiling over their personal flavor of the day. I see signs of really stressed people that I don't like seeing. What four doctors out of millions say about PCR tests is something to consider then move on. There is no great revelation or a solution or something that will change how we live our lives today or in the near future. The tests and being butt hurt about supposed censorship we have no recourse, except to not participate, are not evidence of some grand scheme to screw us all. It confirming what we fear maybe. No more. YMMV but I have better things to do to get through my day and ensure there are more of those days than wrecking my sanity and health by not knowing when to step away.

I'm not your enemy or your opponent. You should know that you are way off base in your assumptions about what you think I was saying with most of what you wrote in your comment. You know what? That's OK.

#7 Sure, we are talking about the complete reordering of society, massive consolidation of wealth and ownership, all our "education" to be done online while we hunker down in fear of our neighbors, every move tracked and traced, but hey, if we have to use flawed tools and believe in the owners who tell us we MUST use them, who have never had our "best interests" at heart, just go with it and do not think about it because that makes you just a loud mouth pain in the ass who will not just get on board. A supremely selfish murderer who only cares about your income, never mind you're about to be homeless, how dare you question the Science that our owners have provided for us. While some want to quibble endlessly about whose "fault" it all is, we do not even bother to question IF this pandemic is really lethal enough to allow our entire lives to be reordered. And in case you're thinking that I mean this as a good corporate tool, then you are missing the point.

Our owners are consolidating their wealth and holdings as we speak. While we argue over whether "lockdown" is the right word, of if that killed anyone, or if "those people" are just good corporate tools who want to make millions for our owners, that consolidation goes on to its ultimate end, you will own nothing and be happy and you will live, or die, at the largesse of our owners, who only have your best interests at heart. And for heaven's sake, we simply cannot use some site that might have some "right wing" tendencies because they all lie, except maybe that time they did tell the truth about some corrupted Democrats which turned out to be actually true, but THIS TIME is different. This time we cannot listen to them because they are simply science deniers, never mind the actual science of that merely flawed test might just be entirely faulty, just ignore the nay sayers and call the cops on your neighbors if they have too many people over to their house.

And now, we will all have a nice little app that will tell us who the infected are so we can avoid them, if not call the authorities on them because some app says they've been "infected" and we MUST abide by that because the tech Gods surely have our best interests at heart.

Censorship? Why, be glad you got banned from some loony right wing site, yay! Of course, our media censors not only right wing lunatics but those who see through the smoke and mirrors of our good old Democracy, but surely that's not a problem and after all, they own the media so it is their right. How can anyone question that we live in Democracy? The skepticism of the CT loons just never ceases to amaze, yeah? We VOTED, so of course we live in a Democracy, duh.... Censorship is fine and dandy when one is merely censoring a loon, and who is and is not a loon will be determined by your sponsors, for your own good, of course, how can you not see that you fool? Right is bad, Left is good. War is Peace. Slavery is Freedom. Ignorance is Bliss....

@QMS can be hazardous to our health. I have no desire to censor anyone and I take no joy in anyone being censored. Contrary to recent suggestions.

#7

or a nice little nap that will spell us

Censorship is fine and dandy when one is merely censoring a loon, and who is and is not a loon will be determined by your sponsors, for your own good,

[video:https://youtu.be/4ENNzjy8QjU]

@snoopydawg I appreciate that people are confused and conflicted. Everything we hear, read, and see is suspect unless we happen to agree with it or want it to be true because it will lighten the burden of not getting sick and staying healthy/alive in a pandemic. Watching our lives unravel is strong incentive to bite on the slightest tidbit of hope it will end soon.

In my world it's pretty easy to separate the BS from what is best for me, friends, and family. (Fortunately those in our circle agree and are conscientious about taking precautions and avoiding unnecessary risk. I have a few friends with family members who are demanding that their high risk relatives go to weddings and holiday events because none of this is real. It's hard saying no but lives may depend on standing up to selfishness and idiocy.) There are three rules that the frontline medical troops follow: use appropriate, or the best available, PPE, wash your hands, and minimize/avoid contact with people who may be infected. We never know for sure who might be infected so minimize contact as much as possible. That third one is complicated but there isn't anyone on this site who can't figure out what risky behavior looks like. Anything that violates any of these three items increases risk no matter if it's some assclown publishing their incredible new discoveries/revelations on YouTube or a few former Big Pharma execs with MDs after their names casting doubt for whatever purpose. Anything that induces us to question the reality of this situation or creates doubt about how to protect ourselves increases our risk. How much risk we individually are willing or have to take due to circumstances is up to us to a point. Considering how much risk we might be to others is important although it gets left behind too often.

It's not like we've been hiding, cowering in the basement. We took a two day trip into Amazonia about two weeks ago with the owners of a large orchid grower/researcher who ships and lectures worldwide. His operation remained in operation throughout the six months of lockdown. There was no income from their large operation during the first two months but he was able to keep everyone on a rather large staff working safely and being paid. They took extraordinary and expensive precautions that seem to have been successful. (A couple were of dubious/unconfirmed benefit but were otherwise harmless.) There has not been a single case of Covid on the staff in the Andes, on the coast, or in Amazonia. Pepe has shown that his business can work and survive with this virus but only by developing and then following proper precautions.

We are taking an opportunity to spend a week in the Galapagos Islands before the return of big crowds in the new year. We talked about the risk and how to mitigate it while traveling. We feel confident we can be safe although there are unknowns we will face. I don't think any of us will fail to follow good practices or accept an unsafe situation. Still, there's risk that is not necessary. I honestly can't fully justify the risk but I accept the responsibility.

#7

We are getting conflicting information about what we should be doing and it doesn’t help that leaders are doing whatever the hell they want to do. Pelosi getting her hair done. Newsom going out to dinner with more people than he should have. Congress members flying without masks, roaming the halls of congress without masks and countless other incidents that make it seem like there are 2 sets of rules.

Closing churches while leaving other venues open doesn’t make sense either. It’s okay for thousands of people to protest while wearing masks, but not allowing people in churches with masks and social distancing? And I’m still coming back to schools being open, but not other places. We’ve seen pictures of students in crowded halls with no masks on and of course we saw the Trump rallies. Are they contact tracing people who went to them? Probably not. That’s never been a priority.

Meanwhile, case counts have risen enough to trigger the closure of New York City public schools, but businesses still have full discretion to require employees to come into work.

Again it’s the inconsistency that people say doesn’t make sense.

In Rhode Island, for example, residents are prohibited from gathering with even one person outside their household, even in the open air of a public park. But inside a restaurant? Well, 25 people is fine. Hire a caterer? You’re legally cleared to have up to 75 outdoors.

Ah well...everything will be fine once Biden becomes president. Right? After all our troubles only started the day Trump became president according to the Obama-bogs. Right?

Tell people it’s safe to return to bars and restaurants and spend money inside while following some often useless restrictions, but also tell them it’s unsafe to gather in their home, where nothing is for sale.

Thanks for the article!

@Pluto's Republic contagion and the illness if we get it. Many are low cost available support. They are not guarantees, but they do altogether provide a greater range of safety. Giving up and waiting for a vaccine has been long already, and may be longer depending where on the priority one is found. And whether it really works, with low side effects.

It's in all of our interests to be proactive and know all the things we can do to mitigate possible infection, or the infection if we have it.

As some have suggested, with the preventative and better care of the ill, it would have been possible to have this new bug variant running around and still have jobs, work, school and other social activities.

The current situation looks like it will be a society-wide infection.

#10

I am immersed in the science of Covid-19 and I read this same thread without alarm. Yes, the thread is mistrustful and disparaging of the cartel of scientists and corporatists that distribute information about public health in the US. It is focused on epidemic abatement policy, not medicine, and it displays some skepticism about advice coming from the same US public health authorities who failed so completely in curbing Covid-19. These are the same authorities who lied to the people about using masks to protect themselves from the virus, telling them that masks would harm them. The same CDC that spectacularly failed at developing SARS-CoV-2 tests, after they convinced the FDA to reject hundreds of submissions from labs that had developed more promising tests. The CDC could thus snag the contract to produce tests in their private-venture lab factory. It is the so-called Public Health system that has been anti-science, especially when it mattered most.

The life-saving research-based science about preventive drugs, prophylactic materials and devices, and preventive environmental mitigation is being actively stalled or withheld from the people. There are no educational PSA's telling people how to make or buy masks that will protect them from breathing in the SARS-CoV-2 viruses floating in the air, or teaching them how to fit masks to their faces so they actually function, or telling them how to remove them and where to dispose of them safely. No PSA's alerting people with illnesses like diabetes, and people over 50 years-old, to take daily Vitamin D3 supplements until the pandemic has ended. And no PSA's teaching people (or health care workers) how to block Covid-19 infection by using an iodine-based nasal spray before leaving their homes. No PSA's encouraging everyone to gargle with an iodine-based rinse three times daily to clear the viruses caught in their air passages before they expand into a viral load and become activated..

There are plenty of reasons for people to distrust the government and the scientists who work for them. Many reasons for them to realize that the Congress does not have their best interests as a First Principle of legislation. The things that people are starting to see with their own eyes, provides plenty of room for paranoia to seep in.

This, however, is hyperbole:

it is so sad to see this site turn into a fountain of medical and scientific misinformation.

.

Nothing of the kind is happening at c99. If I saw it, I would step in to correct it. Many here would do the same. People feel safe to express their fears, here. Other people listen. This is a healthy thing. It will not bury the truth.

As a scientist, you must realize that the US is past the point of getting any sort of containment over the virus. There is no other credible scenario. We will be swimming in a soup of shed viruses in another month. US public policy will make that a certainty. The government has not provided places for cast-out People to shelter. They never provided the People with masks that work, or money for support in buying food and personal care. Every Canadian receives $1500 per month and health care on demand. Decent nations do not eject their people into a festering dystopia to fend for themselves or kill themselves in despair. But the die has been cast in the US. Vulnerable people will be thrown away like garbage. The psychopaths will survive.

The overly conservative rules of science have blocked effective common sense help from reaching the People. With help from the FDA, corporate and career sociopaths have blocked the care and information that the people need right now to survive. Science professionals are not proactive toward the public and they muzzle and censor themselves out of fear for their own careers. If they see an institutional wrong, they will not take the risk to correct it. They have seen other scientists destroyed when they try to do so. Scientists are not medical activists and avoid such discussions. They have their tight professional circles where they feel safe. Scientists may feel free to criticize the ignorance of Americans, who are kept in a state of ignorance about practices that affect their daily lives, such as economics or health sciences. But they should be alarmed that their nation produces such ignorance and demand a solution.

We need scientists to step in to the real world and empower people with common sense knowledge when and where the opportunity presents itself. The State has betrayed the People and the US dystopia is filling up fast.