@mimi
...have perspectives which are complimentary. The US constitution was written by men excluding women from voting till an amendment 100 years ago. If both men and women had participated that would not have been the case. My 2 cents anyway.

I have not read anything more, so far, because I am too tired to do so, but will somehow reading more after the nap.

We already have the advantage over the 1787 gathering in that most of us are not slave owning oligarchs plus we are mixed genders and races.

Believing that being an advantage, is in my mind, shortsighted. Not owning slaves, ok, somehow workers wages are so low that it feels like slave-labor. To believe that any gender or race is somewhat different from the other, is a beloved dream-hoax, we like to engage in. I could even say it is racist in iteself to think so.

No offense meant at all, it is just a knot in my brain that I can't disentangle. I would appreciate some help getting over that blockage in the way I think about it. Mercy.

I am going to take a break and then attempt to read the links.

Thanks always to all here for being persistant, stubborn, peace-loving, disciplined authors and researchers, all you folks. Respect and kudos. I am addicted to this site.

@earthling1

A progressive sentencing system pegged to the amount of wealth stolen would discourage greed.

A maximum wage isn't a bad idea either. The idea that Bezos made several billion this week is absolutely obscene. No system should allow for that in a country where people are homeless and hungry.

Greed is indeed the heart of our problem. Thanks for the ideas!

We need a brake on wealth, one that is increasingly more powerful as wealth rises. Certainly, a progressive tax system has worked well in the past, and the estate tax should be returned to its former level.
But what I want to speak to is the cruel system where some black man who is caught stealing a loaf of bread and gets a year in jail, vs a bankster who steals ten million dollars gets probation.
A progressive sentencing system pegged to the amount of wealth stolen would discourage greed.
Steal a loaf of bread = a day in jail.
Steal a car = get year.
Steal $100,000 = get 10 years.
Steal $1,000,000 = get 25 years.
Steal $1,000,000,000 = capital punishment.
IMHO

@WoodsDweller

Here's what I was saying about the difference at independence hall.
Here's the representatives chamber

vs the senate chamber

The senators were originally appointed by the state (usually the governor) and they picked oligarchs. It really is a visage of the oligarchy.

I'm not sure that States serve any legitimate function that needs to be preserved. Rather than looking at a Senate which represents interests by State, I would instead argue that this should be where the peoples' interests are represented by party.
Each eligible party submits a slate of 100 names, each qualified to become a Senator. The seats they win in the election must be filled from that list.
Each Senate seat is allocated as a result of national popular vote by party. If the Greens get 3% of the national popular vote, they get 3 seats in the Senate. Rather than electing 1/3 of the body every 2 years for a 6 year term, elect the entire body (the current 100 members is a manageable size) every 4 years, in the middle of the President's term.

@Granma

My power is from TVA...government electricity, but it is bought by my local rural electric coop.

You idea is excellent. Water is a major issue here and around the world. It really isn't that difficult to clean and filter, but we lack the will and kids in Flint and many other US cities still are drinking poisonous water.

Where is Teddy when you need him?

The Roosevelt administration sued successfully to break up such monopolies as John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Co. and J.P. Morgan’s Northern Securities Co., a railroad conglomerate that the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, dissolved.

“There is a widespread conviction in the minds of the American people that the great corporations known as trusts are in certain of their features and tendencies hurtful to the general welfare,” Roosevelt wrote in his first message as president, following McKinley’s assassination.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/03/this-day-in-politics-december-...

That means water, sewer, power; anything everyone needs and uses.

And we desperately need anti-trust laws that are enforced.

@eyo

NRA and confederate flags common here...along with Trump 2020 flags. Saw an ironic sign the other day - Pro-Trump, Pro-gun, Pro-life. So let's see how do guns and life align?

Here in the boonies we're spread out enough to not step on each others toes. After the 2018 election of Ilhan Omar I hear a fellow at trade day say how can a Muslim serve in congress. They don't know nor understand the constitution. Ignorance reigns supreme. They really are not bad people just so under exposed and poorly educated. If you had a flat tire they will stop and help you.

Whatta world. Whatta world.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So]

Take care of yourself. Don't let the insanity get to you. Hope a rain soon cleans the smoke out of your air!

Hi Lookout, thank you for everything. Richard Anuszkiewicz passed away in May this year. I dug out the serigraphs and they are waiting to be mailed out. Maybe tomorrow I can make it to the USPS. Tomorrow will be better I just know it will. You can trade them for an avocado or make a drink coaster or something. Be creative. I will pm the details.

New neighbor Riley has an NRA sticker on the back of his pickup truck window, not the National Recovery Act one the other one. It's there to balance the Confederate flag flying in the garage to my right I suppose. Here I am stuck in the middle. Totally protected.

Yesterday Always Talking Man screamed at me from his little bike "F-bomb You N-Word!" You have to use your imagination I guess he thinks I'm black now. Quality of life is so great when people have psychotic breaks right out in public, right in my face. Just great. I should stop burdening you guys with my own fine tortured mind, that's how I feel about now. meh

Smoke Madness
Small grass fire in Geyserville leads to arson arrest

Wesley James Bergman, 37, who the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office said is a transient, is accused of arson and causing a fire to forestland, both felonies.

A sheriff’s deputy was driving north on the highway near the Lytton Springs Road onramp just after 6:50 p.m. Friday when he spotted a small grass fire on Geyserville Avenue and saw Bergman walking in the area, Sheriff’s Lt. Juan Valencia said.

“It’s pretty straightforward,” Valencia said. “He admits to setting the field on fire because he was having a bad day.”

Yawn. Nothing to see here, move along. At least they didn't kill him right there on the spot. Where do you go when there's nowhere to go? Nowhere. Just great.

We are still on lock-down in Sonoma County by the way, to finish off what's left of the little guys I guess. Downtown is half gone already.
Sonoma County expected to keep tightest business restrictions in place for another month or more

The high degree of coronavirus transmission and potential for more new infections resulting from wildfire evacuations are the key reasons it’s unlikely the county will soon begin to reopen more businesses and public activities, said county Health Officer Dr. Sundari Mase said.

“My sense is, especially with the fire evacuations and the fact that our cases are high, I don’t see us coming to the next tier for at least a month or longer,” said Mase, who was referring to keeping the virus in check enough to make progress and ease some limitations.

That means across Sonoma County, restaurants, wineries and places of worship, among other venues, will continue to be limited to outdoor service, while bars, breweries and distilleries where no meals are served will remain closed, according the the state’s new reopening plan.

Newsom has a new color coded system? I don't know 'cause I shut down over colored threat levels. I'd rather catch a fatal dose at this point. Just kill me now.

The watershed is dead. Long live the watershed.
Walbridge fire damages half of prime salmon, steelhead spawning grounds, experts say
But in the little scrolling picture box along the top it says this before it's clicked upon:

Both true but which one gets the most clicks? Journalistic integrity. Just great.

How about we get rid of the surplus 600k pink food tubes and tear down that disgusting dam? I'd vote for that. How on earth is it that "we" are still fighting PacificCorp here in California? omfg Democrats so useless against Republican skullduggery. LOL. I am echoing the Useful Idiots show with that vocabulary.

https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2020/aug/17/monuments-colonialism-klamath-d...

The hopes of seeing those dams removed, hopes that burned so bright four years ago when hundreds gathered in Requa near the river’s mouth to announce a new removal agreement, have dimmed considerably since a July 16 ruling by the Federal Energy Regulatory Corporation. The ruling left the dam’s owner, PacifiCorp, threatening to walk away from the agreements and all other parties scrambling to keep them at the table. And late last week, North Coast Congressman Jared Huffman announced that the Water, Oceans and Wildlife Congressional Subcommittee he chairs will hold an emergency forum tomorrow examining the dams’ impacts on tribes, fisheries, the environment and downstream stakeholders.

Another emergency forum examining the dams' impacts is not a sane path forward if you ask me. I know governance is basically all meetings but c'mon man. Anything is better than now. Good luck.

@magiamma

...like build hospitals in a week or two. We have to debate for weeks and then spend years doing anything. The only real industry in the US is our war machine. As you say we need to turn on a dime. The people's convention was one of the most hopeful things I've seen since Bernie's 2016 campaign.

The whole thing is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6u5xPJaW2s
Various piece are here https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=peoples+convention

Take care and good luck with your swale!

Interesting point from John Pilger's video you posted last week, The Coming War on China...

In China there are a lot of problems, but at the moment, the Chinese, the party these days has proven an extraordinary ability to change. I make the joke, in America you can change political parties but you can't change policies. In China you cannot change the party but you can change policies. So in the 65 or 66 years, China has been run by one single party, yet the political changes that have taken place in China this past 66 years have been wider and broader and greater than probably any other major country in modern memory.

So in that time China has ceased to be communist. Is that what you are saying?

China is a market economy, it is not a capitalist country. Here's why. There's no way a group of billionaires could control the politburo as billionaires control American policy making.

So in China you have a vibrant market economy, but capital does not arise above political authority. Capital does not have enshrined rights. In America the interest of capital or capital itself has risen above the American nation. The political authority cannot check the power of capital. That's why America is a capitalist country. But China is not.

[video:https://youtu.be/vAfeYMONj9E?t=3462]

A new definition of *not capitalism*.

All well here, bioswale going in tomorrow. Think good thoughts. Take good care.

@enhydra lutris

money is such a difficult thing to wrap your head around. The more I thought about the idea of basing the dollar on a standing board foot of lumber the better I like it. I hink it would encourage the massive tree planting the world needs.

I highly recommend the convention
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=peoples+convention

the comments. The whole thread got me thinking of many things, but especially questions of how revolutionary should things be, do we wish more of less things as now but with coops and communes and redesigned and redefined agencies, or even something beyond that and while ruminating upon that I found myself endlessly returning to this one critical consideration:
The Devil is in the details, in all things, now and forever. Also, "government exists to do for the populace that which it can't do better for itself. This is predominantly infrastructure, but not entirely by any means. And those things, whatever they are, should not be allowed to be privatized. Necessities should be provided for all, at least at some base level. So, water, clean water, clean air, energy, internet, telecommunications and more. Now, details- in many a serious catastrophe, for many persons, a landline is a lifeline. We've been moving away from landlines, but a couple of cell towers go down and a large swath of area surrounding me is without communications except via internet, if it is functioning and not overloaded, and ye old landline. When emergency services puts out warnings locally, they call on the landlines first.

That's just an example of the details that need to be brainstormed by those defining or implementing whatever it is that will come. Also shit like: once we get a lot of clean power, do we really wish to rely on river traffic to move goods (and people) at the cost of Dams, Canals, channelized rivers, locks and all that fol-de-rol, or maybe let the rivers do their thing (including re-establishing floodplains and such)? What types and categories of base level housing should be provided to all comers? How much should rail supplant cars and trucks (except at the termini) and what sorts of terminal infrastructure need to be provided?

One key, recurring question is: What is the proper degree of centralization or decentralization and distribution.

You mentioned money, but do we really need it, and how should it be earned, by whom and for what? Should workers make more than managers, or under what circumstances should that be the case? Tying it to anything tangible simply creates more extraction and extractive pressure. Tying it to anything fictional leads to temptation to manipulate.

I've gotta run, but we really all need to revisit this often.

be well and have a good one.

@The Wizard

I agree with all your points. Excellent!

That rules out private wealth based capitalism and large wealth and income disparity. Interest on loans and return on economic rent is capped.

Outlaw political parties.

Maximise opportunity for every citizen. That implies universal access to education and capital.

Every organized entity serves to compete with the primary goals, therefore they can only exist to further those goals. As any corporation becomes larger it must allocate a greater and greater percentage of seats on the board to representatives of the public interest.

The government must listen to the needs and desires of the people. Occasional checks like a representative government where elections are financed by wealth is completely out of the question. The government must use scientific polling to influence policy. Where elections are used to generate a representative government, the rule of one person one vote may never be abridged.

Making war when there is no immediate and real threat to the physical security of the country is strictly prohibited and is the only offense to carry the death penalty, for both those in the civilian government and those in the military. Permanent military installations outside of US territory are prohibited.

The government must act to preserve the health of the global environment. Those activities which are harmful to the global environment must be phased out.

The entire legal system, criminal and civil, must be entirely redesigned and must allow the individual fair and quick recourse without paying for the services of a lawyer. If one party in a civil case elects to not use a lawyer then the other party may not use a lawyer. All judicial decisions are automatically reviewed.

The right to privacy must be restored. The government may not delegate any rights to any individual or group, of which those rights are denied to the government itself. Privacy rights must be expanded to include the internet, texting, email and other apps.

The bill of rights includes the right to health care, an education, and a livable income. All public educational facilities must be evenly funded.

The public interest must be adequately balanced against private interests.

Discrimination in any public activity, private or governmental, for any reason whatsoever is strictly prohibited.

Voting must be by marked paper ballot. Every citizen of age has the right to vote.

No governmental organization may in any way influence the publication of information from private media of any form. Intelligence organizations may have no contact whatsoever with private organizations in the common business of media of any form.

@eyo

Somehow I missed it. Sleep well my friend!

Hi all, sorry I missed most of the days discussions and stuff. Broken collarbone totally screwed up my normal sleep disorder and I'm trying to adjust to a new thing. Sleeping a solid 7 is what counts in my book and I am getting a lot of good winks in lately so yay. Healing proceeds apace.

By chance I had just looked up and bookmarked joe shikpspak's compiled list of demands the other day, it is from 2017.

https://caucus99percent.com/content/what-are-your-demands

General principles.

From time to time, a people creates a government to perform functions that no other institution is able to. It is vested by the people with significant powers to promote their common interests and the people retain the right to have that government respond without favoritism to the governed. A government should be judged by the quality of life that all of the governed experience, especially those at the bottom of the economic order. Government officials should be ashamed to find that there are citizens that are hungry, homeless, poorly-educated, without means to support themselves, lacking access to healthcare or other necessities of life - and such a government and its officials should be held accountable. Such conditions in a wealthy country are inexcusable.

and then 12 steps to a better world follows under Demands, and then some comments. Mine was "Thank you for making number 1 number 1. LOL. About this:

Here are the steps forward.

1) Create a consensus list of medium-term achievable demands that reflect the popular will of the 99% - one that cuts across party lines.

Chop chop! Ha ha. It's a great exercise in civic duty to have these conversations, I think it should be done often to get more perfect. Like every four years. LOL. Oh fuck I am so screwed all I can do is laugh. Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we will die.

go in peace