Why the Dems voter shaming is laughably disingenuous

It's that time of the year again.

If you do anything other than vote for Joe Biden in November — vote third party, write in Bernie or abstain, you're a Trump supporter. For those waiting to be won over, "it's time to get in line" seems to be the order of the day.

This is the math of the neoliberal elites.
Abstaining or voting third party = voting for Trump.
This gets repeated over and over again.

Jill Stein got just 1.1% of the vote in 2016, and the Dems absolutely f*cking lost their sh*t because of it.
The Dems spent years engaging in all sort of insane konspiracy theories because of that 1.1%, eventhough the Libertarians got three times as many votes and both parties ignored it.

It's past time to point out that there is a third option being ignored by the Dem's math, other than just abstaining or voting third party.

Data from a Hill-HarrisX poll released Wednesday indicated that if the presidential election were held today, 10 percent of registered Democrats would vote for President Donald Trump.

So roughly NINE TIMES the number of Democrats intend to vote for Trump than Greens and Independent will be voting for the Green Party candidate.

Now if the Dem's real objective was to beat Trump, don't you think that making sure that their own voters didn't vote Republican would be tops on their agenda?
But it isn't. The Democratic establishment is largely silent on Democrats that vote Republican, so they must be cool with it.

OTOH, Independents and Greens, voters from OTHER PARTIES, get shamed by Dems for voting for the political party that they are registered with, and reflects their values (unlike the Dems, who have absolutely no intention of representing these voters).
In what world is a party entitled to the votes from other parties? That's not democracy.

Finally, there's the math problem.

If one Dem vote for a Dem = one for a Dem

and one Green vote for the Greens = one vote for a Republican

then what does one Dem vote for a Republican equal?

According to this math it equals Three votes for Trump (one actual vote for Trump, plus any non-vote for Biden is one vote for Trump, plus one vote taken away from the Dems).

That the Democrats don't care about Dems voting for Trump just shows that the Dems real purpose is to neutralize the left, not to win elections.

Share
up
40 users have voted.

Comments

of me was any of my business I might be inclined to consider what Dems think.

up
21 users have voted.
Bisbonian's picture

Okay. Then not voting for Trump must be a vote for Biden. I will not be voting for Trump.

up
33 users have voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

@Bisbonian
that the same people who are entitled to your vote are also the ones who will lecture you on "your privilege"?

up
29 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@gjohnsit
Didn't you get the memo?

up
19 users have voted.

The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

@Not Henry Kissinger So it's best I don't invoke the privilege to vote Biden.

up
3 users have voted.

@Bisbonian I will write in my vote for Bernie.

up
2 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

up
23 users have voted.

The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Cassiodorus's picture

I've heard of some lopsided ones, ones that claim that we're all voting for Joe Biden because we hate Donald Trump.

up
15 users have voted.

"Scab of a nation, driven insane" -- Frank Zappa

prefer to see more than just the H-HX poll which seems like an outlier.

Normally in prez elections, so I've read somewhere, about 6-10% of registered voters for one party can be regularly expected to vote for the other party nominee. This is like clockwork, and there is nothing to be done about it, unless you want to waste campaign time and resources in a futile effort trying to win back 0.3% of reliable defectors.

But this season, 10% of reg Dems seems suspiciously high given who the R nominee is. However, 10% of reg Rs voting for Biden seems about right. Suburban white R women particularly are going to be there for the picking for Biden.

up
4 users have voted.

@wokkamile

there is nothing to be done about it, unless you want to waste campaign time and resources in a futile effort trying to win back 0.3% of reliable defectors

it doesn't explain why the Dems spend so much effort shaming 1/9th of the Green voters when they can simply write off nearly 10 times the GOP defector votes.
That math doesn't work. At least not if the dems are trying to win.

up
17 users have voted.

@gjohnsit nor would I expect a great deal of Dem establishment shaming of Green voters, as I don't expect the Gs to matter much this cycle, an election that is shaping up to be a strong win -- given an actual more-or-less honest election -- in favor of the D.

This isn't to say there won't be the occasion D political hack on the tubes railing against the Gs, but not nearly at election 2000 levels. I'd imagine there would be fewer on the progressive left who would consider 2020 the same sort of relatively inconsequential election as many saw 2000, and so it won't be necessary to do much persuading and cajoling not to vote G in close states.

And speaking of which, it increasingly appears the close states this time won't be WI, MI a/o PN, but AZ, IA, TX and GA, which means major trouble for the Donald.

up
2 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@wokkamile

nor would I expect a great deal of Dem establishment shaming of Green voters, 

by establishment Dems toward progressives. If you're mostly watching the corporate media, you might not see it. If you spend time on social media, you will see a non-stop virtual tsunami of shaming, blaming, gaslighting, intimidating, trolling, and general crazymaking on behalf of Joe Biden and the DNC.

as I don't expect the Gs to matter much this cycle, an election that is shaping up to be a strong win -- given an actual more-or-less honest election -- in favor of the D.

That's what the Dems keep saying. "We've got this election in the bag! We don't need your vote!" At the very same same time, they're spending a heck of a lot of energy (and no doubt, consultant salaries and SuperPAC funds) trying to shame and manipulate recalcitrant progressives into voting for Biden. "It will be all your fault if Trump gets re-elected!"

'Tis all very odd.

up
13 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Centaurea any time on social media other than following a few people on twitter, so I am apparently missing all the gaslighting drama. Might be advised to step away for a period from all the social media negativity and of course don't take things too much to heart, especially in a contentious election season. It's a big country out there, and lots of stressed-out people with lots of time on their hands these days. I am never on FB, and have learned to quickly breeze past and not fret over most of the sub-tweet comments on twitter.

That's what the Dems keep saying. "We've got this election in the bag! We don't need your vote!"

Nah, I don't see any Dem voice of consequence saying that. Why would they -- that would lead to the sort of overconfidence that got Hillary in trouble. And "don't need your vote" greatly exaggerates the situation. They need progressives to stay inside the tent, just not quite to the same extent that they needed them to stay loyal in 1968 and 2000, which were much closer elections than this one probably will be. And with the hated Trump in office and threatening us all, and our democracy, with another 4 yrs of racism and division and financial favors to the rich and mighty, there is built in to the political equation much less of a likelihood of masses of progressive no-shows and defectors this cycle.

up
0 users have voted.

@wokkamile

And "don't need your vote" greatly exaggerates the situation.

If it's partly true then it's totally true. Progressives and leftists will have no voice in this administration. And everyone knows it.

And with the hated Trump in office and threatening us all, and our democracy, with another 4 yrs of racism and division and financial favors to the rich and mighty, there is built in to the political equation much less of a likelihood of masses of progressive no-shows and defectors this cycle.

You mean the guy that designed the 2005 bankruptcy bill? That guy?
He won't be giving financial favors to the rich and mighty?

up
10 users have voted.

@wokkamile
I consider this electopn of even less consequence than 2016.

If Biden wins, what changes?

1. The villain of the day becomes Russia instead of China.

2. The despised race becomes white people instead of brown people.

3. On the bright side, we can expect a lot less idiotic twitter chatter. That's the only positive.

On other boards (R)'s are pounding away that Joe Biden is a Socialist who will nationalize the medical industry and raise taxes crushingly on the rich and disarm America. It's good for a morning laugh.

up
10 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

equal 3 votes for trumpet?
I was never that good at calculus but
the slope of the line approaching zero
is still, for most intents and purposes zero.
No vote for blinden is zero.
No vote for trumpet is zero.
No vote for green is still zero.

Three times zero is still zero
far as I can tell. Wink

up
18 users have voted.

Let's try to help each other
find a better way.

Shahryar's picture

@QMS

a vote for Trump is the only vote for Trump. A vote for Cornel West (that'd be me) is not a vote for Biden, not a vote for Trump. It'll be a vote for West. Not voting is not a vote for Biden, Trump, West, Hawkins, or anyone.

Apparently there are 213,000,000+ registered "voters". In the last election we had 128,000,000 or so actually vote, meaning 85,000,000 didn't. So a vote for a 3rd party candidate is effectively 1 out of 85,000,000. And they're gonna yell at me? They have a pool of 85 million voters that they're not even trying to attract and they're gonna yell at me? or you? How lazy of them!

up
24 users have voted.

@Shahryar failed to sign on to the recent anti-cancel culture letter from academics and writers. Sorry, I can no longer consider him for my write-in vote here in CA.

And I'm not writing in brother Kanye West either. One wacko in the White House is already one too many.

up
2 users have voted.

@wokkamile Is one of the most loving, thoughtful and intelligent people in the United States. It would be a joyous miracle if he were to win. Comparing him to Kanye West is a disgusting straw-man.

up
19 users have voted.

@konondrum lighten up. No one was comparing, just playing on the fact of their same last name. Good grief, get a sense of humor.

up
1 user has voted.

@wokkamile I don't try to be combative, heck, I haven't logged in to comment in months. It was your frankly offensive comment that brought me in here. Go back and read what you said.
You said you wouldn't write in Dr. West, a far, far better man than I; because he wouldn't sign an anti-cancel culture letter. If the irony of that statement doesn't astound you, I don't know what to tell you.
And for all your talk about how this election is going to be a cakewalk... how did that work out for you in in 2016? How is Biden going to perform once the campaign begins? I have absolutely zero faith that he can cross the finish line, and honestly couldn't care less if he does or not. Biden winning in 2020 is going to do nothing to change the neoliberal establishment in Washington. It's a lose/lose game. I'd rather vote for Dr. West.

up
20 users have voted.

@konondrum @konondrum I make here could benefit from another round or two of editing. But I'm not getting paid for this, and I have other things to do and other places to visit. It could have been made a little clearer above that I was not only riffing on the same last name, but also a few other things, including continuing my amusing game of deciding which worthy gets my write-in nod for Nov, something I've been boring people with here for weeks. I had not realized in the usual rush to post that some would take things so literally about CW and the Harper's letter and not in the joking spirit I had intended.

ETA: Now that I'm more awake this morning and recall the post in a busy day of posting here and mostly elsewhere, it was also a dig at cancel culture itself -- playfully cancelling CW from my write-in list for not signing the letter. How clever of me. And yes, that was my mindset, along with a few other amusing items as noted. Guilty as charged for the failed attempt at snark, irony.

As I noted to wendy here yesterday, who knows why his name isn't on that list of signatories -- wasn't asked? asked but declined? It's kind of both a big deal about his absence where normally one might expect his name in support to appear, and also a no-biggie as it's just another protest letter from notables, one of many on various topics in a given year. So, relax. It should just be considered a playful dig at Cornel, a faux cancel, not a literal criticism and call for his name to be removed from the list of Approved True Progressives.

But, speaking of ironies, if it suits you to feel better and virtuous by cancelling me because you were "offended", go right ahead. Sorry, but I can't be guilt-tripped into worrying about how each and every poster will react or overreact to my posts.

up
1 user has voted.

@wokkamile "Just about every post I make here could benefit from another round or two of editing. "
That's a pretty good sign that you are commenting too much. I'm not trying to censor anybody, but if your comments are getting soundly rejected by the community, maybe you should consider your audience and not spam a bunch of crap that's going to annoy people.

up
4 users have voted.
RantingRooster's picture

@wokkamile failed snark looks like

up
5 users have voted.

"Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent; selected from the rest of mankind their minds are early poisoned by importance;" - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

@RantingRooster post. I always forget there is usually at least one person out there ready to pounce righteously instead of merely asking for clarification.

up
1 user has voted.
wendy davis's picture

@wokkamile

who can say? but i left this tweet of brother cornel's for you on cass's Cancel Culture thread:

up
2 users have voted.

@QMS if you were a Dem. You have to be able to believe the unbelievable with all your heartless soul. Brain damage from twisting illogic into rocket surgery and living with cognitive dissonance helps too. How do you think Biden got to be such an eloquent man?

up
17 users have voted.

@vtcc73

Cotton to the idea if the disconnect did not occur.
If's and but's, candy and nuts.
Many people see we again have two miserable choices.

I'm voting for Popeye.

up
13 users have voted.

Let's try to help each other
find a better way.

snoopydawg's picture

@QMS

9A6C6672-FE23-4A17-B7E6-F9E52191C405.jpeg

Come on give it a thought.

up
19 users have voted.

"It is remarkable that a sitting president would express less than complete confidence in the American democracy’s electoral process."

Hillary: "I'd be president today if Comey, Bernie, Bros and Putin hadn't stolen it from me."

RantingRooster's picture

@snoopydawg for Snoopy any day!
snoopy.jpg

up
12 users have voted.

"Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent; selected from the rest of mankind their minds are early poisoned by importance;" - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

snoopydawg's picture

@RantingRooster

I mean when's the last time the Snoop let ya down? And yes Woodstock for VP.

up
5 users have voted.

"It is remarkable that a sitting president would express less than complete confidence in the American democracy’s electoral process."

Hillary: "I'd be president today if Comey, Bernie, Bros and Putin hadn't stolen it from me."

lotlizard's picture

@snoopydawg  
have told me the current president is actually the Great Pumpkin. I think it’s the color. That’s more evidence than any of the Russia-Russia-Russia stories ever had.

up
9 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

@vtcc73  
that trying to satisfy its diabolical demands with feats of mental and moral contortion has almost finished turning him into an empty shell, a shadow, a wraith.

up
15 users have voted.

@lotlizard

up
10 users have voted.
dystopian's picture

The shame and blame game is what bad parents do. It is intellectually as lazy as it is un-enlightened. It is the establishment neo-lib Dem/DNC way. It is as smart as they are, or can be, once you've sold your soul for that sweet sweet campaign cash. They choose to kneel before their masters, I would rather die on my feet. When they can respectfully demonstrate any interest whatsoever in any actual plan that will help anything for real, any actual solution to any of the problems we face now, I'll look and listen.

They are the ones that ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Hillary lost because of Jill Stein and misogyny. And Gore because of Nader. /s Idiots!

good post gj

up
28 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

@dystopian had no role in HRC's defeat, none whatsoever. Voters are not like that in this country.

up
0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

and bank shill Hillary had no problem voting for Jill Stein who you know is a woman. Misogyny had nothing to do with my refusal to vote for Hillary. It was her history that caused that. I think that was a cop out by Her because people have been voting for women in both parties forever. Hillary needs to both own her history and her poorly run campaign. SO do the misogyny excuse folks.

up
9 users have voted.

"It is remarkable that a sitting president would express less than complete confidence in the American democracy’s electoral process."

Hillary: "I'd be president today if Comey, Bernie, Bros and Putin hadn't stolen it from me."

snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

but here are 500 people explaining why they refused to vote for Hillary. It had nothing to do with being misogynistic cretins, but because she is a warmonger.

https://commons.commondreams.org/t/vote-for-the-lying-neoliberal-warmong...

The article though was saying that even though she was a lying neoliberal warmonger people should have voted for her anyway.

Besides if as you say they didn’t because they were misogynistic then how’d she get 3 million more votes than Trump?

up
6 users have voted.

"It is remarkable that a sitting president would express less than complete confidence in the American democracy’s electoral process."

Hillary: "I'd be president today if Comey, Bernie, Bros and Putin hadn't stolen it from me."

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

Somebody should start a campaign SPECIFICALLY calling out these Dems-for-Trump voters - and specifically contrast them with Stein/Nader/etc voters in a way that tries to let the latter off the hook without making us them sound vindicated and while still being ingratiating to the Party; see how the Establishment responds.

up
5 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

snoopydawg's picture

and vote for Trump as much as they the ones who vote 3rd party? I don’t think so. But I know a few democrats who do blame dem voters every time a democrat loses. They too think that people owe their votes to democrats no matter what they do or don’t do. According to them it’s my fault that Obama lost the house and senate, but not Obama’s fault for everything he did or didn’t do.

If I decided that I couldn’t vote for another warmonger because of my principles it’s still my fault that the republicans took the senate. This was such a gift to Obama and the democrats. They got to hide behind republicans obstruction for 6 years.

BTW folks this is not the biggest election of our lifetime because of the Supreme Court. Not when Ginsberg joined the republicans to let gas companies put their oil pipelines through the Appalachia’s. Or when Kagan joined them to let religious folks not have to pay for women’s birth control.

But it actually went out the window when Biden voted for Scalia. Phewy!

up
22 users have voted.

"It is remarkable that a sitting president would express less than complete confidence in the American democracy’s electoral process."

Hillary: "I'd be president today if Comey, Bernie, Bros and Putin hadn't stolen it from me."

Thank you for bringing up the 3:1 ratio of Libertarian:Green votes. I recall using those numbers in 2016 to show that 3rd party votes actually HELPED the donorcrats, since 3 times as many rightwingers voted 3rd party as voted for Stein. The Liberts drained off many more votes from the rethugs than Stein did from the donorcrats.

up
14 users have voted.

If I'm wrong, it's the first time I'm happy to be confused. -Don Van Vliet

@pindar's revenge the rebuttal is that it was a ticket of moderate Rs, the kind of ticket designed to attract anti-Trump non-RW reasonable types, many of whom in other elections not featuring a widely disliked female D nominee might have been expected to cross over to vote D.

In fact, if memory serves, Bill Weld, Libertarian VP nominee, as the election got nearer actually publicly asked anyone supporting him or thinking of it, to carefully consider not voting Libertarian if they lived in a swing state so as not to throw the election to Trump.

up
1 user has voted.
Roy Blakeley's picture

there is no reason to hold your nose and vote Biden. The annoying and, frankly, stupid voter shaming is not about winning the election. It is about pushing the Overton window to the right so that we accept blue-team Republicans as the norm.

up
15 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@Roy Blakeley and we will not be voting for either Biden or Trump.

Swing state voters should not be forced to carry the burden of vote shaming either. My vote is mine alone to use as I please, including not voting. It is up to the candidates and their parties to EARN our votes, not expect them. The only shaming I will support is the shaming of the Democratic party for foisting upon us Joe Biden.

up
22 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Centaurea's picture

@gulfgal98
of the human race and the planet, with so many serious problems we are dealing with. We needed to have a forward-thinking, intelligent, decent person leading us through this dangerous time. We had such a person, and it was a person who had the energetic support of the younger generations - the future!

The Dem party machine deliberately destroyed that person's campaign, and is attempting to crush the younger generations' energy and spirit. The Dem machine is like a perpetual motion machine. It just keeps repeating the same old motions in the same old patterns, no matter that those motions are taking the human race right off the cliff. The Dem machine cannot stop itself. It has no soul, no heart, and apparently no brain.

That is the number one reason why I will not vote for Joe Biden or any other establishment Dem.

The only shaming I will support is the shaming of the Democratic party for foisting upon us Joe Biden.

up
14 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98

up
2 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

@gulfgal98 you mean Democratic voters by the millions in numerous states, none of whom were forced to vote the way they did because of a phone call or major endorsement.

Meanwhile, in the future maybe the progressive cause would be better served by "foisting upon us" a better candidate to carry the banner, someone a little younger and more interested in actually winning as opposed to merely getting his economic message out a/o playing nice with his main opposition.

up
0 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@wokkamile
I'm not GulfGal, but when I talk about the Democratic Party, I am talking about the party apparatus. The DNC and the party machine, and the consultant class that works for them. They are the ones calling the shots, not the voters.

Most regular people who vote Democrat don't have a clue what goes on with the Dem party machine. Most of the ones I know have bought fully into the propaganda and believe that the Dem party is "leftist" and that the Dem party actually cares about regular people.

up
8 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

orlbucfan's picture

@gulfgal98 This tRump-Byedone choice is the worse one I've seen in my lifetime. I'm no spring chicken either. Rec'd!!

up
2 users have voted.

Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

In what world is a party entitled to the votes from other parties? That's not democracy.

It's not even basic sense.

If anyone needs it, here's a little encouragement from Ohio for everyone else living in a swing state to vote or not as your conscience and politics instruct. Think about it, meditate on it, coffee-chat about it, pray over it, text about it, sleep on it, do whatever you do, but tune out all the propaganda and internet bullies and get to your decision on your own based on something real, something true, something you really believe.

I haven't decided yet how or whether I'll vote this November, but there is not a chance in any hell I'll vote for either Biden or Trump.

up
17 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

https://rall.com/2020/07/06/on-foreign-policy-joe-biden-is-worse-than-trump

A vote for Biden isn’t just a vote against Trump. It’s a vote in favor of Biden’s vote to kill one million Iraqis. If we elect Joe Biden, we will send a message to the world: America hates you, we’re glad we killed all those people and we plan to kill more.

up
16 users have voted.
RantingRooster's picture

that shit would be illegal.

I'ld rather change my name to "None of the Above", and win the election in a landslide, and not have spent a penny getting on the ballot in all 50 states... Crazy

up
13 users have voted.

"Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent; selected from the rest of mankind their minds are early poisoned by importance;" - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

mimi's picture

Doha and was able to crawl out of his prison apartment over there after four months of quarantaine. He could fly back to his mom's home in Germany, visiting us and getting his first haircut in over six months. FREEDOM to cut your hair, it's never to be underestimated how important those freedoms are.

Anyway talking a bit about the Trumpocracy he had high hopes that something fundamentally will change over at your side of the pond. He told me everyone will vote for the 'None of the Above Ranting Rooster' And that will be the end of all of it misery. Ha! I think he had some insights. Wink

None of the Above Ranting Rooster for President. He and Snoopy a team unbeatable. Smile

up
6 users have voted.

“Trauma is not what happens to you.
Trauma is what happens inside you,
as a result of what happens to you.”
— Dr. Gabor Maté

Hawkfish's picture

A few weeks back:

I live in a Democratically controlled state that went for Clinton by 16 points, so I could vote for a space alien and it wouldn’t matter. Biden is backed by wealthy individuals and industries, so he doesn’t need my money, and with major media outlets and pundits backing him, he doesn’t need my advocacy. In fact, he doesn’t need me at all, and the feeling is mutual.

For most Americans, the primary IS the presidential election, and mine was over a month ago. So I’m going to devote any left over political energy I have to down ballot candidates who - unlike Biden - share my values.

I’d add that at this point Biden is up another seven points over Clinton in my state, so it really doesn’t matter who I vote for. Which is why I’m sending contributions to local candidates Rebecca Parson and Joshua Collins, Our Revolution and the DSA.

up
8 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg