About the "vote for the nominee" thing

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sat, 02/08/2020 - 9:52pm

This meme has been traveling through my Facebook feed:

Ocasio-Cortez Warns Democrats to ‘Rally Behind’ Nominee, ‘No Matter Who It Is’

This is of course Yahoo! news, notorious for its right-wing slant. Did they get this from the National Review?

At any rate, Ocasio-Cortez's message appears aimed at Tom Perez and the bunch trying to fix the election for whomever they can find who is not named Bernie Sanders.

“It’s incredibly divisive to do so, and very demoralizing, which is a direct threat in November,” Ocasio-Cortez said in an interview with Time magazine. “The moment you start playing games trying to deny whoever is the nominee, we really start to get into dangerous territory in terms of defeating Trump.”

The high-profile progressive freshman from New York, who has been campaigning for Sanders in Iowa leading up to Monday’s caucuses, said that she hopes the party will unite behind the eventual nominee, even if it is not Sanders.

“Bernie has said this, I absolutely believe this: whoever gets the nomination, we have to rally behind them, no matter who it is,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “And I would hope that everybody would do so if Bernie is the nominee as well.”

Has Ocasio-Cortez considered the possibility that Tom Perez, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, the DNC, et cetera, don't really care if the Democratic Party produces a viable nominee, if the ideological orientation of the party is preserved?

Maybe they would all prefer a second term of Donald Trump. Who else do they have?

Pete Buttigieg, who might do a few nice things for the LGTBQ community, but who is otherwise a social climber of the worst sort, as put on display in two Nathan Robinson articles you should all read:
All About Pete

More About Pete

And then you have Pete Buttigieg's dumb health care plan, which has some distinct disadvantages as against what people will have to do in the current environment for American health care, which is to say medical tourism.

Mike Bloomberg, whose priority is in putting Republicans in power, who is against raising the minimum wage and legalizing marijuana, and whose "stop and frisk" program was basically a war against New York City's nonwhite population. I have already discussed Bloomberg's ineffectual business-first climate change mitigation ideas here at Caucus99percent.
Joe Biden, who is probably afflicted with initial-stage dementia, and who won't be President. Well, he might be President, but only in the sense in which William Henry Harrison was President, which is to say, for a few days.
Amy Klobuchar or Elizabeth Warren, who received a New York Times endorsement (together -- go figure) but neither of whom are adequately positioned to win in the primaries. In New Hampshire Klobuchar is at 5% and Warren is at 15%. Warren's total looks especially low in this regard because New Hampshire borders Massachusetts, where Warren is from. In South Carolina Warren is below 10%.

At some point they will throw up their hands and say "let's lose to Trump." They don't really have anyone who can beat him, and they don't want Sanders to beat him. And they could engineer any of the above candidates into the nomination through election fraud or simply by canceling the primaries outright, but how good would that look?

At any rate, it appears that the best we're going to get (absent some of Elizabeth Warren's very reasonable proposals) from any of these people is more Republican rule. A good case can be made for the idea that Buttigieg or Bloomberg would be worse than another term of Trump in certain ways. Buttigieg is a social climber with ties to the absolute worst elements in American society; Bloomberg is an opponent of legal marijuana and a proponent of stop-and-frisk, a rich authoritarian who is used to buying anything that stands in his way. Mostly it's that either of those individuals would simply give government away to the Republicans and to predatory corporate interests to the greatest extent possible while the nice liberals will be sitting on their hands because "the Republicans are worse."

Here it's important to understand the history of the nice liberals' behavior when examining their blind allegiance to Democrats "no matter who." You'd think they would have intervened while Barack Obama's Democratic Party gave 900-plus state legislative seats to the Republicans during his tenure as President. But obviously the nice liberals don't care. They want a President who talks nice and who has a (D) next to her or his name. Vote Blue no matter how thoroughly they give government away to Republicans?

Trump, on the other hand, makes an appropriate bogeyman, someone to hate while the forces who are genuinely opposed to him (as opposed to those who pretend, whom I call the "Vichy Party") get it together. And, to be clear, Trump is genuinely worth opposing, a Mafia dude in the White House.

So in conclusion this "rally behind the nominee" stuff has to be viewed in light of Ocasio-Cortez' attempt to offer some sort of opposition to the likes of Tom Perez. I couldn't really say if any of her message was intended for our consumption, or if it was, in what way it was. Look, I think this stuff occupies WAY too much of our time, judging from the sheer abundance of frontpaged diaries at Caucus99Percent on it. Does anyone here have anything to say about the downticket races? I did a diary at Daily Kos awhile back -- it's somewhere in the archive -- about downticket races, and discovered that the Democratic Party doesn't really give a damn about a race unless it looks like it will be really cheap for it to flip a couple of percentage points to get a candidate to triumph over a Republican.

Tags:

Democratic Party

Republican Party

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

vote Blue no matter who

Vote

Comments

Submitted by Le Frog on Sat, 02/08/2020 - 11:36pm

Vote blue no matter who only works

if the party itself wasn't beholden to special interests that has erased any semblance of a platform. It's wild that the same party has only one guy advocating for Medicare for all, for instance, while the rest all have different schemes. That's why the party unity arguments don't make any sense; at this point, the vote is about which candidate voters believe most closely aligns with their interpretation of what the Democratic party should be. (I'll quickly mention too the overwhelmingly frustrating propensity the Dem leadership has for voting for GOP shit. You may as well vote GOP.)

As for the down ballot races, I think they have been minimized by the Democrats because the party leadership has simply not done the work to grow the voter base; they count on voters being self-motivated. The difference is that the GOP doesn't want to do the work of growing voter numbers because it will hurt them, so instead they are focused on voter suppression and gerrymandering. It's remarkably effective, partly thanks to the spineless, lazy Democrats. I was reading a few weeks ago that many people received fundraising literature from the Dem party with a personal plea from Barack Obama, and many were sending the letters back with cuttingly rude messages about the party deserving no money (some had the occasional rude drawing on them). Party fundraising now only works based on specific people (and let's be honest, only Sanders has the fundraising numbers to take on Trump).

As for AOC, I think she has been doing some work to be able to push back on the narrative that Bernie is divisive, albeit in an indirect way. I want to believe that the strong offensive comes after the nomination is clinched. Whether this is effective, only time will tell. I will say though that Bernie has been standing tall with dignity and grace; I sometimes forget the magnitude of forces against him, especially because the only smears that have a remote chance of sticking are personal and against his character. Why else would the Buttigieg camp have started the beyond ridiculous onslaught of accusations against Sanders that he takes dark money (for instance, the Sunrise Movement, LOL)? (And Mayo Pete can jump into hell. Fuck that guy.)

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:15am

"Party unity" is like:

@Le Frog something the rich hold the poor to, while they conduct a class war out in the open for all to see. Why not just have it out, and reveal Tom Perez and his friends for who they really are? Tom Perez and his friends are not going to change.

if the party itself wasn't beholden to special interests that has erased any semblance of a platform. It's wild that the same party has only one guy advocating for Medicare for all, for instance, while the rest all have different schemes. That's why the party unity arguments don't make any sense; at this point, the vote is about which candidate voters believe most closely aligns with their interpretation of what the Democratic party should be. (I'll quickly mention too the overwhelmingly frustrating propensity the Dem leadership has for voting for GOP shit. You may as well vote GOP.) As for the down ballot races, I think they have been minimized by the Democrats because the party leadership has simply not done the work to grow the voter base; they count on voters being self-motivated. The difference is that the GOP doesn't want to do the work of growing voter numbers because it will hurt them, so instead they are focused on voter suppression and gerrymandering. It's remarkably effective, partly thanks to the spineless, lazy Democrats. I was reading a few weeks ago that many people received fundraising literature from the Dem party with a personal plea from Barack Obama, and many were sending the letters back with cuttingly rude messages about the party deserving no money (some had the occasional rude drawing on them). Party fundraising now only works based on specific people (and let's be honest, only Sanders has the fundraising numbers to take on Trump). As for AOC, I think she has been doing some work to be able to push back on the narrative that Bernie is divisive, albeit in an indirect way. I want to believe that the strong offensive comes after the nomination is clinched. Whether this is effective, only time will tell. I will say though that Bernie has been standing tall with dignity and grace; I sometimes forget the magnitude of forces against him, especially because the only smears that have a remote chance of sticking are personal and against his character. Why else would the Buttigieg camp have started the beyond ridiculous onslaught of accusations against Sanders that he takes dark money (for instance, the Sunrise Movement, LOL)? (And Mayo Pete can jump into hell. Fuck that guy.)

—

“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:23am

Oh and here's a telling story about Buttigieg and health care:

@Le Frog Buttigieg is the only top 2020 candidate not offering staffers health care yet

if the party itself wasn't beholden to special interests that has erased any semblance of a platform. It's wild that the same party has only one guy advocating for Medicare for all, for instance, while the rest all have different schemes. That's why the party unity arguments don't make any sense; at this point, the vote is about which candidate voters believe most closely aligns with their interpretation of what the Democratic party should be. (I'll quickly mention too the overwhelmingly frustrating propensity the Dem leadership has for voting for GOP shit. You may as well vote GOP.) As for the down ballot races, I think they have been minimized by the Democrats because the party leadership has simply not done the work to grow the voter base; they count on voters being self-motivated. The difference is that the GOP doesn't want to do the work of growing voter numbers because it will hurt them, so instead they are focused on voter suppression and gerrymandering. It's remarkably effective, partly thanks to the spineless, lazy Democrats. I was reading a few weeks ago that many people received fundraising literature from the Dem party with a personal plea from Barack Obama, and many were sending the letters back with cuttingly rude messages about the party deserving no money (some had the occasional rude drawing on them). Party fundraising now only works based on specific people (and let's be honest, only Sanders has the fundraising numbers to take on Trump). As for AOC, I think she has been doing some work to be able to push back on the narrative that Bernie is divisive, albeit in an indirect way. I want to believe that the strong offensive comes after the nomination is clinched. Whether this is effective, only time will tell. I will say though that Bernie has been standing tall with dignity and grace; I sometimes forget the magnitude of forces against him, especially because the only smears that have a remote chance of sticking are personal and against his character. Why else would the Buttigieg camp have started the beyond ridiculous onslaught of accusations against Sanders that he takes dark money (for instance, the Sunrise Movement, LOL)? (And Mayo Pete can jump into hell. Fuck that guy.)

—

“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Submitted by aliasalias on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 1:40am

I got a DNC fundraising letter attributed to Obomber

@Le Frog @Le Frog and I couldn't believe it because email from those rich grifters hasn't happened for years.
I've thought of the reason for that might be because every single letter I've received, on any subject,that had a return envelop that required no stamp, was sent back with as much scrap paper and cardboard I could stuff into the envelope. Including what I thought of the whole operation.

I didn't want it to be automatically processed,that costs no more nor involves anyone, I wanted somebody to have to f*ck with it. If could have had the 'return postage guaranteed' for anything I could glue it to the best they would've gotten from me was a brick in the mail.

if the party itself wasn't beholden to special interests that has erased any semblance of a platform. It's wild that the same party has only one guy advocating for Medicare for all, for instance, while the rest all have different schemes. That's why the party unity arguments don't make any sense; at this point, the vote is about which candidate voters believe most closely aligns with their interpretation of what the Democratic party should be. (I'll quickly mention too the overwhelmingly frustrating propensity the Dem leadership has for voting for GOP shit. You may as well vote GOP.) As for the down ballot races, I think they have been minimized by the Democrats because the party leadership has simply not done the work to grow the voter base; they count on voters being self-motivated. The difference is that the GOP doesn't want to do the work of growing voter numbers because it will hurt them, so instead they are focused on voter suppression and gerrymandering. It's remarkably effective, partly thanks to the spineless, lazy Democrats. I was reading a few weeks ago that many people received fundraising literature from the Dem party with a personal plea from Barack Obama, and many were sending the letters back with cuttingly rude messages about the party deserving no money (some had the occasional rude drawing on them). Party fundraising now only works based on specific people (and let's be honest, only Sanders has the fundraising numbers to take on Trump). As for AOC, I think she has been doing some work to be able to push back on the narrative that Bernie is divisive, albeit in an indirect way. I want to believe that the strong offensive comes after the nomination is clinched. Whether this is effective, only time will tell. I will say though that Bernie has been standing tall with dignity and grace; I sometimes forget the magnitude of forces against him, especially because the only smears that have a remote chance of sticking are personal and against his character. Why else would the Buttigieg camp have started the beyond ridiculous onslaught of accusations against Sanders that he takes dark money (for instance, the Sunrise Movement, LOL)? (And Mayo Pete can jump into hell. Fuck that guy.)

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:19am

Cost them return postage too

@aliasalias
Although political mail costs around 2.5 cents instead of 55 cents. A little perk that Congress voted.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by travelerxxx on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 6:43pm

Extra postage req'd.

@aliasalias

Postage paid return envelopes can be a lot of fun.

If I remember correctly, I learned this from Richard Fariña:

1) Glue the envelope to a brick.
2) Mail brick.

Pro tip: Wrap brick in brown paper before glueing envelope.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:24am

My experience with down ballot

goes like this: the district judge that performed my wedding switched from D to R. He stayed in office until his retirement. My local District Attorney lost his judgeship to an R, so he ran for his current position as an R. He will likely retire and not run again.
My civil court judge held office as a D District Attorney, he is now an R. All 4 of my county commissioners were elected as D's, all flipped to R's later, all won re-election.
Remember when Rick Perry was a D ?
Down ticket stuff is not about grassroots, not here, it is about strategy.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:52am

The Dems appear to have an amazingly deep bench...

A good case can be made for the idea that Buttigieg or Bloomberg would be worse than another term of Trump in certain ways.

of Presidential candidates AT LEAST as bad as Trump.

Throw in Hillary for the trifecta and suddenly the idea of an establishment Democrat as President starts looking more and more scary.

Just imagine what sort of rogues' gallery of thieves and cut throats a Bloomberg or Buttigieg or Clinton cabinet would consist of.

BRRRR. I'm getting the shivers just thinking about it.

—

The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Submitted by Situational Lefty on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 1:08am

Party Unity my Ass should resonate

when the alternatives to Bernie Sanders are Mayor Pete!, Joe Biden and the lady who got rid of Al Franken.

These are hardly liberal, FDR-wing of the party alternatives.

—

"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on." Yossarian

Submitted by laurel on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 1:46am

Bernie and Tulsi stand for what I believe in.

The DNC makes it abundantly clear that they do not. This contest is no longer D vs. R, it's the people vs. the corporations, the 99% vs. the 1%. The DNC has already destroyed Tulsi's chances and it looks like they're hell-bent on destroying Bernie's chances as well. What's left to support in them?

—

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

Submitted by QMS on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 4:17am

the people vs. the corporations

@laurel @laurel
Well put laurel.
Party plays at politics.
People need change.

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 6:52am

I understand why they say this.

However, I will not vote blue no matter who. AOC is naïve to think this will work. I know Bernie has good intentions - he wants Herr Drumpf defeated, but not with any of those others that are running. I'm a Bernie or bust person. Period.

If Bernie gets cheated again, I'm hoping the American people - the GenZers and the millennials will start the revolution this country needs so badly. I will join them.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by entrepreneur on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 7:17am

Bernie or bust also. I positively will not vote for a DNC hack.

If the primary was fair, and the resulting nominee actually represented the will of the voters, I would feel differently. But the evil cheating bastards at the DNC aren't going rob me of my vote in the primary, then lecture me on how important my vote is in the general. Fuck them.

@Raggedy Ann

Submitted by Raggedy Ann on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 7:21am

Well said.

@entrepreneur

But the evil cheating bastards at the DNC aren't going rob me of my vote in the primary, then lecture me on how important my vote is in the general.

My sentiments, exactly.

—

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 9:22am

Here is more party unity talk from none other than

the owner of DKos...

I happened onto DK today for the first time in many months and guess what I found.... March 2016 all over again. Rob in Vermont takes Kos to task for his lies about Bernie.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/8/1917554/-Daily-Kos-Founder-Mar...

Vote blue no matter what? I don't think so. If people like Kos can post lies about a candidate running under the Dem banner, then "party loyalty" is the biggest lie of all.

Any political party has to EARN my vote, and so does their representative candidate. I balked at Bernie urging people to vote for Hillary and if he is not the nominee, I will balk at his and AOC doing the same in 2020.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by Deja on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 11:46am

Wow! Brecht at dkos!

@Fishtroller 02
Here's a link to (hopefully) a comment on the dkos diary you linked to. I'll paste the whole comment so others don't have to go there.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/8/1917554/-Daily-Kos-Founder-Marko...

I expounded on your theme at length, way downthread under all the pie. I’m reposting it here so it won’t get lost in the melee, because this vein of ugliness you pint to is the worst side of DKos, and a deep impediment to this community working together with trust and goodwill, to win the most important election of our lives this fall.
Markos has been more reasonable lately, with less divisive invective against Bernie. But only compared to the sometimes atrociously low bar of his previous works.

Now, Markos is gonna be Markos, and in our face about that when he feels like it. He’s gotten a little more diplomatic over the years, but he’ll keep breaking the central DBAD rule, now and then, as long as he walks this earth. When he loses the plot periodically, most kossacks just ignore him now.

But he still has huge power and sway here, and his behavior, for better and worse, trickles down through his staff. His uglier bullshit pushes the envelope of how low you can go here — the Mods will never sanction or speak harshly to Markos, and it’s hard for them to bojo any trolls who are essentially parroting their dear leader’s worst words and behavior.

For four years, Markos’s frequent disdain for Bernie has encouraged a posse of Never-Berniers to fling their poo with impoonity. So, on a site whose first rule is moreandbetter Democrats, kossacks write that Bernie is a ruthless liar who they won’t vote for. Now that newbie’s been here 3 weeks, and joined DKos just to stir up primary shit. But in Markos’s trickle down Bernie-bashing culture, that comment, and 5 of their other 6 flagged comments, got multiple recs and weren’t hidden.

Just this week I’ve seen ”There’s also a lot of videos of Bernie slavering over dictators” get 27 recs, which is as mean and right-wing as a talking point can get. Another kossack accused Bernie of being a willing Russian tool: “A conflict of interest is a candidate allowing a foreign entity to use their campaign to undermine the country” — as that Bernie-despiser has done repeatedly before, along with many other false and nasty smears. That last filthy comment got 46 recs, showing just how much Bernie-bashing is a teamsport, in this house that Markos built. Another insult/joke claims “BernieBros” (a flaggable and false ad hom in itself) are unhinged conspiracists who “are basically Trumpers with (marginally) better haircuts.” Ha fucking ha. 14 recs.

Bernie may or may not end up our Democratic nominee, America’s champion to take down Trump and save us all this fall. He’s built an unprecedented ground game, across every segment of the Left and independents, and he’s the favorite on 538 and among bookmakers now. If Bernie becomes our nominee, a lot of heads will explode on DKos, and pie will be flung with fury. We’re already seeing a lot of kicking and screaming against Bernie’s ascent, because Markos and his followers and minions have told us for years that “Bernie’s not a Democrat” and “has a 15% ceiling”. Markos encouraged this culture of sniping at Bernie, blaming every last one of his supporters for the craziest tweets of a few, and threadjacking Bernie-boosting diaries with smears that were already false back in ‘16.

I really thought Markos was getting a bit wiser, keeping above the fray, for the unity of DKos. But your examples, Rob, show that he has a lot still to learn about leadership. Unlike Bernie, who has come a long, long way in four years, and built a diverse progressive coalition we can all get behind. If we choose to save this country, all together, all 99% of us. We’d better get onboard now, or our democracy will be toast, and so will our planet. We are all in this together. Hate-pie makes us lose.

Brecht February 08 · 01:21:42 PM

It's full of links that I'm too lazy to individually embed from my phone, so you'll have to go to the actual site from my link and follow links within the comment itself if you want to see where he pointed as proof.

Same as it ever was . . .

[video:https://youtu.be/5IsSpAOD6K8]

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:05pm

Can we get "Brecht" to come here to post?

@Deja When the tolling of the iron bell calls the faithful to their knees, Markos will be at the front of the line to hear the softly spoken magic spells...

(Okay for those who didn't get the reference:

)

#7
Here's a link to (hopefully) a comment on the dkos diary you linked to. I'll paste the whole comment so others don't have to go there.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/8/1917554/-Daily-Kos-Founder-Marko...

I expounded on your theme at length, way downthread under all the pie. I’m reposting it here so it won’t get lost in the melee, because this vein of ugliness you pint to is the worst side of DKos, and a deep impediment to this community working together with trust and goodwill, to win the most important election of our lives this fall.
Markos has been more reasonable lately, with less divisive invective against Bernie. But only compared to the sometimes atrociously low bar of his previous works.

Now, Markos is gonna be Markos, and in our face about that when he feels like it. He’s gotten a little more diplomatic over the years, but he’ll keep breaking the central DBAD rule, now and then, as long as he walks this earth. When he loses the plot periodically, most kossacks just ignore him now.

But he still has huge power and sway here, and his behavior, for better and worse, trickles down through his staff. His uglier bullshit pushes the envelope of how low you can go here — the Mods will never sanction or speak harshly to Markos, and it’s hard for them to bojo any trolls who are essentially parroting their dear leader’s worst words and behavior.

For four years, Markos’s frequent disdain for Bernie has encouraged a posse of Never-Berniers to fling their poo with impoonity. So, on a site whose first rule is moreandbetter Democrats, kossacks write that Bernie is a ruthless liar who they won’t vote for. Now that newbie’s been here 3 weeks, and joined DKos just to stir up primary shit. But in Markos’s trickle down Bernie-bashing culture, that comment, and 5 of their other 6 flagged comments, got multiple recs and weren’t hidden.

Just this week I’ve seen ”There’s also a lot of videos of Bernie slavering over dictators” get 27 recs, which is as mean and right-wing as a talking point can get. Another kossack accused Bernie of being a willing Russian tool: “A conflict of interest is a candidate allowing a foreign entity to use their campaign to undermine the country” — as that Bernie-despiser has done repeatedly before, along with many other false and nasty smears. That last filthy comment got 46 recs, showing just how much Bernie-bashing is a teamsport, in this house that Markos built. Another insult/joke claims “BernieBros” (a flaggable and false ad hom in itself) are unhinged conspiracists who “are basically Trumpers with (marginally) better haircuts.” Ha fucking ha. 14 recs.

Bernie may or may not end up our Democratic nominee, America’s champion to take down Trump and save us all this fall. He’s built an unprecedented ground game, across every segment of the Left and independents, and he’s the favorite on 538 and among bookmakers now. If Bernie becomes our nominee, a lot of heads will explode on DKos, and pie will be flung with fury. We’re already seeing a lot of kicking and screaming against Bernie’s ascent, because Markos and his followers and minions have told us for years that “Bernie’s not a Democrat” and “has a 15% ceiling”. Markos encouraged this culture of sniping at Bernie, blaming every last one of his supporters for the craziest tweets of a few, and threadjacking Bernie-boosting diaries with smears that were already false back in ‘16.

I really thought Markos was getting a bit wiser, keeping above the fray, for the unity of DKos. But your examples, Rob, show that he has a lot still to learn about leadership. Unlike Bernie, who has come a long, long way in four years, and built a diverse progressive coalition we can all get behind. If we choose to save this country, all together, all 99% of us. We’d better get onboard now, or our democracy will be toast, and so will our planet. We are all in this together. Hate-pie makes us lose.

Brecht February 08 · 01:21:42 PM

It's full of links that I'm too lazy to individually embed from my phone, so you'll have to go to the actual site from my link and follow links within the comment itself if you want to see where he pointed as proof.

Same as it ever was . . .

[video:https://youtu.be/5IsSpAOD6K8]

—

“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Submitted by Deja on Mon, 02/10/2020 - 10:30am

Ask him to come over

@Cassiodorus
He might already have an account here. I didn't check. I don't want to log in over there, or I would ask him.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 1:03pm

The mass bannings after the ides of March is CT there

@Fishtroller 02

It Never Happened. Lol tell that to many of the people who found their way here after IT Happened to them.

And now it's ok to BaD to Bernie and his supporters. In every positive diary on him one of the first comments is flaming bait against him and his Bernie Bros and instead of getting hidden they get rec's like Brecht points out.

Gawd forbid that you say anything nice about that Russian asset and her Russian bots Tulsi Gabbard. Oh yeah and she used Russian talking points on Kamala Harris and it's her fault along with sexism that Harris is gone except she said she was having trouble raising money. That must have been Vlad too.

—

There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 6:44pm

The site is driving itself into complete irrelevance

@snoopydawg

Let's not do anything to stop them.

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by tle on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:09am

I want more people to shout loudly AGAINST "unity".

The Democratic elites are fine with it, but if the "centrist" Democratic voters are told over and over that Sanders/Tulsi voters will NOT vote for any other Democratic candidate, whether that means going Green or going home, then they might realize that a vote for one of the corporate whores IS a vote for Trump. For me, "Bernie or Bust" is a threat, and should be seen that way.

I'd love to see the Greens put Sanders or Tulsi on their ballot, regardless of whether either of them wants that. In any case, if neither of them is the Democratic nominee, I will be switching my registration to the Green Party.

Submitted by JtC on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:17am

It may be too early for this....

but I've seen enough of the handwriting on the wall.

IT"S TIME FOR A NEW PARTY.

I will NEVER vote for an establishment candidate. Period.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:25am

I'm very encouraged

@JtC
to see that I have a choice of a Green primary ballot this year.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by JtC on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:39am

I voted Green in the last election...

@The Voice In the Wilderness
as a protest vote and will do it again if nothing better comes along.

Bernie or Tulsi have my vote in the primary.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:52am

I won't be bothering with

@JtC the Democrats if they disregard me and the 99%. How is the way to beat Republicans by becoming a light weight Republican inspiring?
Just as I lose my skepticism of AOC, she tosses poo right in my face.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 11:38am

I'm not sure --

@on the cusp her message was intended for you. Rather, as I suggested in the diary, this is an attempt to get the DNC to do what it was intended to do, which is to say, support the party nominee. We might as well admit at this point that Tom Perez and his cronies have no intention of doing that, and that they're not going to change absent the application of some force within the party that is not Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

—

“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Submitted by OzoneTom on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:14pm

I agree about the strategy

@Cassiodorus
Senator Sanders and Rep. Ocasio-Cortez are staking-out the moral high ground in a longer term strategy here.

Sanders has been and continues to be derided on the left for fulfilling his agreement to support the eventual nominee in 2016. But having receipts showing the number of events where he did this at that time is persuasive today.

Because Senator Sanders has seen and knows that he cannot rely on a corporate media to get his side of a story out, he has built-out an effective alternate network to do this himself.

People like Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are fighting from the inside to "occupy" the Democratic Party. I appreciate their efforts as well as those by others who feel they have a superior approach and are working at it, but I mostly trust the Senator's instincts around this.

Submitted by aliasalias on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:46pm

Same here, voting for Jill Stein in 2012 and 2016 n/t

@JtC

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 4:22pm

I feel the same

@JtC
There's no other dem worth voting for

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:57am

You can still support and vote for Bernie

@JtC

and work towards a new party all at once.

I hope everyone gives Bernie and peace a chance 'til at least Super Tuesday.

Edit/add: We voted alike last time around it seems. This time I'm Bernie or Dust. Then again, I live in a secure blue state so my vote doesn't effectively amount to much come November.

This is about as eye opening as it gets:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQCnw5GaPQY&feature=youtu.be&t=4912]

Submitted by JtC on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 10:53am

I support...

@Wally
both Bernie and Tulsi and will to the end.

Now is the time to let the mf'ers know that we will not play their game. If Bernie gets screwed again then that's enough proof for me that working within the Party will never change anything for the 99%.

Submitted by Dr. John Carpenter on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 11:12am

What makes me so angry

@JtC @JtC is when I think of all the time since 2016 went the way it did that people spent actively discouraging the idea of a third party rather than working to start one. I understand the difficulties, but when I look at what's going on right now, I fail to see how that would be time and effort any less effective than trying to "take over" the Democratic party. The only bright point I see is that I think we're reaching the point some sort of spilt from the Dems is inevitable. It's just frustrating to know we're back right where we were in 2016, except they're not even trying to hide it anymore. Maybe that will finally push people over the edge?

—

Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

Submitted by JtC on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 11:38am

Exactly...

@Dr. John Carpenter
well said.

Submitted by Hawkfish on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 7:30pm

Bernie basically has created a third party

@Dr. John Carpenter

In terms of infrastructure and media, but he’s also angling to grab the D brand as well so he doesn’t suffer the disadvantages of being a third party (name recognition, coverage, etc.). Taking over the party would force a lot of D Congress critters to back him, kind of like how tRump strong arms the GOP.

—

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 9:30pm

Trump doesn't strong arm the GOP

@Hawkfish
They vote as they always have. He does their bidding, not the other way around. Trump is the (R)'s Obama, talking about Change and dishing up the same crapola squared and cubed.
Cutting taxes on the rich, religious bigotry, and racism, laissez-faire economics, kleptocracy. And the dumb proles lap it up.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 9:53pm

Well Trump defeated them all in elections.

@The Voice In the Wilderness He didn't really know how to govern, though, and so he hires them to do that. Which is how they got to be in charge.

—

“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 4:25pm

It's not over yet

@JtC
Let's see if Bernie can pull it off first

Submitted by Dr. John Carpenter on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 11:12am

Yeah, sorry, no.

I vote for candidates, not political brand. The Democrat brand lost my trust long ago. They nominate someone who fights for me, I will cautiously vote for them. They nominate another virtue signaling Republican and they can pound sand. It's that simple.

—

Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

Submitted by wokkamile on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:01pm

Being in a solidly Blue

state, I have plenty of latitude. No one at the DNC is going to gripe later if I write in Michael Moore or Natalie Portman or decide to again vote for the Naturist Party nominee.

But as for AOC, I think she's trying to implicitly make the case for the party treating the question of party unity equally and fairly -- if it's fitting and proper for all Ds to rally around a moderate nominee, it should also be the case if the convention nominates lefty Bernie. And if the latter case, the Bernie backers will greatly appreciate not being McGoverned with half the party bolting in protest.

I am largely in agreement with AOC, but with caveats (which, unlike public office holder and Bernie surrogate AOC, I am at more liberty to express), as I wrestle with the 3 days out of the week I prioritize progressive views vs another 3 days of the week when I prioritize getting rid of Trump. (And on the 7th day, I seek counsel with my politically precocious canine Rafferty.)

I have mild enthusiasm, if that, only for a few non-Bernie Ds: the remaining female candidates and probably Steyer. Of those, Tulsi doesn't have a snowball's chance, and Liz will probably just fade away, so that leaves Amy and Tom I could tolerably tolerate. If the nominee is Biden, Boot or Bloomie I will be voting Michael, Natalie or Naturist.

My John Harlan Moment. Your milage will undoubtedly vary.

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 12:33pm

Ugh. Bloomberg. Ugh.

@wokkamile

In my mind, Bloomberg is surely in cahoots with Clintons Inc. If it goes to a second ballot, he may well win as Lee Fang notes in this Rolling Stone interview with Matt Taibbi and Katie Halper.

The other possibility I see is that the centrist candidates will unite before the first ballot in support of Biden and to stop Bloomberg/Clintons Inc.

I see Buttigieg (and Steyer) as a mere cog in the machine of Bloomberg/Clinton and he won't be seen or pushed as the least bit viable after SC. There was a devastating anti-Buttigieg ad just put out by Biden in NH. Hopefully, it won't do anything for Biden but might help Bernie.

I'm stickin' with Bernie through Super Tuesday, March 3rd come hell or highwater. After that, too, even if it doesn't pan out well that day. But I'll just disappear if it doesn't look good.

Submitted by wokkamile on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 1:23pm

You'll have to go

@Wally searching for me in the deep woods if Biden somehow manages to get enough stupid D voters to back him for the nom. In case a search party is sent out, I'll be just a few hundred yards below the obvious Bigfoot territorial boundaries.

Right now, with Bloomberg soon to be competing for delegates post-SC, I think it's more likely than not this will go to a 2d ballot at the convention. Bernie, Biden, Boot, Bloomie, Liz and Amy all getting delegates, preventing anyone from getting a majority. Maybe even a few for Steyer. Which means SDs kick in. And they are not likely to be a majority for Bernie. So he would need a big-margin plurality going in to be in a stronger position to make his case.

Someone can counsel me on the rules for pledged delegates becoming unpledged in the first round. Does the candidate with the pledged votes, but who is no longer in a position to possibly win, need to officially stay in the race in order to re-pledge his/her delegates to someone else? And if officially out, would those pledged delegates be completely free to re-align with the candidate of their own choosing?

I can see this one coming down to a Bernie vs Bloomie final. A very stark contrast. Ideology vs Electability. Left vs Right, Progs vs Centrists. Sobering prospect.

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 3:01pm

Pledged delegates

@wokkamile @wokkamile

It seems candidates can refuse their name being put into nomination in the first round but can only request their delegates to vote for whomever. Delegates don't have to obey the recommendation of their candidate if they are unleashed. But it would be unlikely for them to buck their candidate's recommendation. See: https://ballotpedia.org/Democratic_delegate_rules,_2020

I have no hope that Warren will drop out and request her delegates go to Bernie on the first round. I don't expect anyone to release their delegates and suggest they vote for Bernie on the first round except for Tulsi and I'm not so sure she won't try to cut a deal with Biden.

The magic delegate vote number for nomination on the first ballot is 1,885. There are 3,979 pledged delegates. 771 Superdelegates kick in on the second ballot. There has to be 51% of delegates for nomination so I guess the second round magic number is 2442.5 but I don't trust my math.

The idea of a Bloomberg nomination scares me.

Submitted by wokkamile on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 5:46pm

Thx for cite.

@Wally Looks like at the national rules level there is some slight wiggle room for delegates in a candidate withdrawal situation. Then there are 13 states that have further rules on that. So still a bit messy as I see it at first glance.

Re Biden/Tulsi: I don't see anything there at all. It would be most awkward for Biden, who would need a female running mate but not TG, and most glaringly gonzo for Tulsi going against her anti-regime change war brand, who would immediately lose her identity as a FP dissident.

I think it would be the most awkward and ill-advised match since JFK/LBJ. Although in the Joe/Tulsi pair, it would be the VP with the target on her back via TPTB.

Not sure why you conjure this scenario. B/c she didn't go after Joe in the debates?

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 6:11pm

Buttigieg is rising in New Hampshire.

@wokkamile

Yea, based on her never attacking Biden, even defending him re. Iraq and not only during the debates but I wasn't suggesting VP w/Biden, just some admin position. Then again, Tulsi might wind up with only a handful of delegates, maybe even none. Where will she qualify with 15% -- in what state? Hawaii? Samoa et al.? Bernie could sure use that 5% of the vote in NH to stop Buttigieg who keeps climbing in the polls there. IN one recent poll, he showed at 1 pt. over Bernie. Obviously, NH will be the end of the road for him but it seems like a growing number of Dems there are captivated by cleancut shiny new objects. He might be able to get around 15% of the vote in a bunch of other states, too. He's doing his job for Mr. Bloomberg and Clintons Inc. the way I see it.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 6:18pm

Maybe we can have every Buttigieg supporter

@Wally in New Hampshire read Nathan Robinson's articles on him. Once again:

All About Pete

More About Pete

—

“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 6:32pm

Read?

@Cassiodorus

Indeed those are excellent articles. But I'm coming to grips with how much MSM still impacts on voters especially during the week people vote in their state primaries/caucuses. In one NH poll, Buttigieg went up 14 pts after Iowa although after the debate it seems his numbers are leveling out.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 9:35pm

They want a winner.

@Wally The MSM tells them Mayo Cheat is a winner and Bernie is a loser. The Iowa party tells them the same. Bernie loses to the Boot despite having more voters? WTF?

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by OzoneTom on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 3:10pm

The Lee Fang interview was instructive

@Wally
Thanks to Bloomberg's grants and other financial infusions to establishment party cogs up and down the pecking order, he has a lot more ownership of the DNC than the Clintons ever got by taking over their debt before the 2016 contest.

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 4:13pm

Again, I think Clintons Inc and Bloomberg are in cahoots

@OzoneTom

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bloomberg, if nominated, opts for Hillary as a VP choice. And he may even drop out and let her do his dirty work for and with him.

Submitted by Deja on Mon, 02/10/2020 - 10:27am

Gulp

@Wally
Would not surprise me, but makes me nauseous nonetheless.

Excuse me, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit, imagining it.

I didn't plan on voting at all, but if that woman ends up on the ballot again, I just might vote for Trump as a symbolic fuck you to the hag, even though Her can make the machine tallies say whatever Her wants as I'm sure the glitches from 2016 have been ironed out by now. Based on what I've read at least on Reddit, I am not alone.

And before anyone screams about how horrible that idiot Trump is, Her is worse, but they're both grifting pieces of shit and neither "team" each pretends to represent gives a damn about any of us. It's all theater, just like making the pilgrimage to the booths every four years.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 4:15pm

A lot depends

On whether Bernie gets cheated.
I won't support a phony election under any circumstances

Submitted by Wally on Sun, 02/09/2020 - 5:05pm

Well, Bernie's already been cheated in Iowa

@gjohnsit

We'll see how things go come Tuesday in NH. I will be offline that night and not drinking beer like Iowa. I learned my lesson. I'll get up early on Wednesday to read about the results. No use possibly losing a night's sleep becoz of all sorts of finagling,

Nevada already looks like another Iowa nightmare with new apps and whatnot.

South Carolina? Joe's big night or not?

California's gonna be BIG come Super Tuesday, March 3rd. And I'm already picking up on horror stories about the ballot structure and process there.

Submitted by Situational Lefty on Mon, 02/10/2020 - 12:29am

Hell, if you live in a solid Red State, like I do

you might as well pledge to vote third party unless Bernie, Tulsi or Warren is the nominee.

My vote for President means nothing thanks to the electoral college.

—

"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on." Yossarian