Trump will destroy Biden if he is the nominee

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Hawkfish's picture

From a number of people (including Krystal and Saagar) that Bernie isn’t hitting hard enough. But after watching Biden’s meltdowns, I can’t see that it is an issue. Biden will self destruct with the lightest tap so why put any more effort into it. Wu wei wins again.

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30 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

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16 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@humphrey

They're scared and they now feel they have no choice but to scare the professional neolibs who watch and listen to them drone on to make sure there's a big turnout for centrist candidates.

Their narrative has been proven increasing wrong by polling. And they know that the polling is crooked in the first place and skews against Bernie, so tack on 5 pts or so to Bernie's numbers. They'd look even stupid than we know they are to the bourgies who watch them if they wind up so wrong in their predictions.

Bottom line is that cable news isn't going to have all that much impact on the vote. It's the TV commercials and other media and the ground game that's gonna make the most significant difference. It doesn't hurt, etiher, that Bernie's opponents are neoliberal dweebs who can't help but stick their forks through their cheeks (except for Klobuchar coz she uses a comb).

We got this if folks don't decide to stay home on primary/caucus day coz Bernie's not perfect or coz Bernie's doesn't do this or doesn't do that. A chance like this won't come again any time soon enough and maybe never.

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16 users have voted.

@Wally

Bottom line is that cable news isn't going to have all that much impact on the vote.

The lemmings that take the word of the talking heads on CNN and MSNBC as gospel need to get an occasional reality check. It is good to see Matthews interject a bit of truth into the equation. Most will believe the Russia Russia crap but getting a few percent to change their mind could have a big impact in the long run.

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14 users have voted.

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14 users have voted.

they don't need to lie. They are probably having fun watching everyone to the left of center-right divided.
@humphrey

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10 users have voted.

@entrepreneur Are Bernie and Tulsi having disagreements now? To me, all the rest are center-right.

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3 users have voted.

something like 'everyone with a D after their name', or such.

@tle

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1 user has voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

How did this get aired?

Medicaid and Medicare are government run health care programs! Say it louder for those in the back!

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23 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

What's going on?

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18 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Wally's picture

@snoopydawg

WTF? And the mention of bread and roses, too?

I wish there was more to that clip. . . .

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9 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Wally

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21 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg Already 165k views since its introduction today.

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15 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@snoopydawg

Wow.

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18 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

It's just all so strange. That cranky anti-Bernie talking head on MSNBC giving a positive assessment presentation of Dem Socialism (never thought I'd live to see any such thing), Chris Matthews going Bernie,Bernie, Bernie, folks talking about how diverse his base is now, reporting favorable poll results. Did Sirota get access to what's going on with the hacked Ghislaine Maxwell's emails???.

I am really blown away by the seismic shift in the MSM's coverage of Bernie.

I've always been an unremittedly big Bernie booster but I've never been all that optimistic, so what I'm seeing on MSM now is blowing my mind.

I'm not big on getting wildly speculative but wtf is going on?

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17 users have voted.
Anja Geitz's picture

@Wally

Maybe the shift is cover for when the votes are “counted” and Bernie inexplicably comes up short proving once and for all the country is just not ready for his “radical” ideas?

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8 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Wally's picture

@Anja Geitz

I'm really at a loss as to why it's happening.

Building up Bernie now and then vote rigging is gonna really drop turnout no matter who gets the nomination. Are they really content with another four more years of Trump? I find it hard to buy into that line of thinking. Maybe it is that contrived.

But if Bernie winds up actually winning Iowa and NH and maybe even Nevada and shows respectably in SC and wins CA and does well Super Tuesday overall, it's gonna be mighty hard to stop him.

I'm also wondering what the heck is going on with those emails that were hacked from Epstein's pimpstress. Maybe there's a scandal brewing that will devastate the Democratic establishment.

There's so much that goes on behind the scenes we will never be privy to . . . .

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5 users have voted.
Anja Geitz's picture

@Wally

Hillary down our throats was a good idea. I doubt very much that their view of what the voters will do is the same as ours.

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4 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Wally's picture

@Anja Geitz

We are the 99%.

Yea, they got the MSM and lots of money but I think less and less people watch that crap now and even those who do think twice about what they've been pushing down our throats.

Not to mention the Dem leadership folks have figured out a way to outsmart themselves with so many candidates.

The 1% isn't very good at swallowing their own bullshit either (listen to those catcalls for Barry to drink a whole bottle of Flint water). This video is going to be spread like wildfire if Barry talks shit about Bernie (it's getting more and more play now):

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5 users have voted.
Anja Geitz's picture

@Wally

That run the electoral process. Given the right circumstances, they can manufacture the results they want.

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6 users have voted.

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Wally's picture

@Anja Geitz

I don't think they will be able to get away with what they did in 2016, at least not as easily.

In the early rounds, we'll see the worst of their hijinks in Nevada.

Again, in 2016 it was just Clinton vs Bernie. And some of the rules have changed that now benefit Bernie in terms of delegate assignment based on results. This time it's a lot harder to screw around with so many candidates in play.

And in 2016, Obama was supporting the favored candidate pretty much right off the bat. This time he's at best biden (sic) his time. He's got to realize that there's gonna be comeupance if he messes with Bernie:

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4 users have voted.

@Wally 1) it's now getting late, close to voting time, and the MSM finally have to go on record as noting the strong appeal of the Sanders campaign, which they've "managed" to avoid so far, when they weren't misreporting about him;, and 2) when one important part of the MSM acts, the rest tend to follow similarly, groupthink style, as with a flock of blackbirds all landing on the line after the first one does.

The important point is that the MSM get on board just acknowledging the seriousness of his campaign right now., and implicitly with that is the acknowledgment that Plan A, the preferred Biden candidacy, may not pan out as hoped for, and ditto for Plan B, the Warren candidacy. They will later sort out how to cover Bernie. Probably in tones of, He may actually get elected, but given our system's built-in safeguards of checks and balances, he may not get much of his program passed (and isn't that a relief ...).

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3 users have voted.

@snoopydawg There are five things that are listed as reasons for the formation of the federal government. The fourth one is to "promote the general welfare."

This clause of the Preamble preceded Marx's Communist Manifesto by 59 years.

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1 user has voted.
Bisbonian's picture

@davidgmillsatty

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1 user has voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

I thought private meant Private!

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12 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

since 1972.*

For as long as Joe's been a Senator, he really has very little campaign experience. And it's showing bigly.

*not counting the 2008 Iowa primary where he got 0.9% of the vote, or as Obama's second banana where he did more harm than good.

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18 users have voted.

Bernie 2020: Hey, you didn't think this would be easy, did you?

@Not Henry Kissinger Correct me if I’m wrong, but Warren and Klobachar also haven’t run in a competitive race for a long while, if ever. Mayo Pete got shutdown seeking higher office. And we all know how pathetically poor Biden’s primary showing was, when he wasn’t forced out for plagiarism.

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14 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter

Most of the hacks are supporting Biden now. Not so much in previous contests. They still do machine politics. People in elected office and those with patronage jobs reach out to friends and family and make sure they vote or caucus. County or whatever Democratic Chairpersons make sure that folks with jobs are going to GOTV. Various levels of arm-twisting and even threats go into play. Did you see that Jane had a Warren sticker on her car? What's up with that? You better have a talk with her . . . .

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7 users have voted.

@Wally

Did you see that Jane had a Warren sticker on her car?

SHE DOES NOT.

Wink

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4 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@Reverend Jane Ignatowski

I loved TAXI, still do, particularly the Jim Ignatowski character. One of my many sins is that I'm an Amazon subscriber and they have all the TAXI reruns on Prime without additional charge. Mea culpa for and even admitting to guilty pleasures.

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3 users have voted.

@Wally

I always thought DeVito's dirtbag Louie was hilarious too, but in particular, I loved that every once in a while Ignatowski would have a line or a scene which suggested that he'd once had both money and class, but traded in both for dope and decency. This may have affected my life choices more than I was consciously aware of when I was making them, heh.

For whatever it's worth, with respect to guilty pleasures, I think a lot of that is situational and to some extent relative, and I don't think virtue signaling is a helpful way to constructively manage species-level changes in a complex reality. To me, our collective goal should be to create a more responsible society from stem to stern, not for individuals to attack each other over things that are mostly only destructive on an industrial scale, so you'll get zero judgment or pushback from me about that sort of thing.

jim and louie quote.jpg

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7 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@Reverend Jane Ignatowski

He was a WASPy Harvard drop-out who just thought Ignatowski was way cooler than his real name.

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4 users have voted.
RantingRooster's picture

but goodness, I would like to see Biden ground into the carpet, but Bernie is too nice a person to do that. I've had to endure him and Hillary, and the DLC New Democrats, my entire F'ing life.

The only "nice" thing I can say about Joe Biden, "He's still alive?"... Shok

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17 users have voted.

Fuck Israel

Wally's picture

@RantingRooster

They've stared airing in early primary states.

You see Biden's freakout reaction to a reporter the other day when a reporter asked him why he's attacking Bernie regarding this ongoing Social Security offensive?

Bernie's gonna keep ratcheting up on the offensive now. It's all a matter of timing. Maybe staging a tactical retreat now or then up the line to assess a situation and then to allow for a more effective assault later. Bernie's in it to win at least if and until it's obvious he can't. But right now, it's looking pretty, pretty good.

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12 users have voted.
orlbucfan's picture

@Wally humphrey is doing his usual ornery wandering around between here and the TPW nest. Rec'd!!

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7 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@orlbucfan

What is the TPW nest?

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5 users have voted.
travelerxxx's picture

@Wally

The "... TPW nest" is probably The Progressive Wing site. Just guessing, though.

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4 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@travelerxxx

I'm on overload as it it but it looks good and I'm glad it's there.

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3 users have voted.
RantingRooster's picture

@Wally

The new Ads... But Bernie himself, in public, is too nice, I should have been more specific. But, that enduring quality "being nice", many people really like.

I reckon I just want to see Biden carpet bombed to smithereens, and that is just not Bernie's "style".

Imagine Bernie doing a kind of George Carlin-equse routine going off on Biden....

(just replace the name Dan Quayle, with Joe Biden at the end)

Drinks

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2 users have voted.

Fuck Israel

thanatokephaloides's picture

@RantingRooster

The only "nice" thing I can say about Joe Biden, "He's still alive?"...

That's bad luck for me, and bad luck for you.....

Smile

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4 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

in a straightjacket.

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13 users have voted.

Mano a mano!

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16 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@humphrey

have more ways to shove candidates we don't want down our throats than convincing people to vote for them.

I hope Bernie has some plan for dealing with all that. He's doing everything right (dumb apologies notwithstanding) for somebody living in a republic with rule of law where election fraud is punished. But he's not living in that republic. I wish to god he were!

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10 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
The illusion of representative democracy must be maintained.
Bernie is somewhat constrained within the actual system we have.

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5 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

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14 users have voted.

She doesn't need one, she is one. She is a very strong, self assured, voice for Progressives. It's rare that I disagree with her. She doesn't suffer idiots and takes them on with confidence. The show "Rising" is picking up subscribers at a furious pace. She also seems to be well connected within the Progressive community but is well respected across a big political spectrum. Her show, Rising with Krystal and Saagar, is a must watch.

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19 users have voted.

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

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14 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

Lynch is great too.

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7 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@humphrey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Messina_(political_staffer)

In various roles he has advised a number of international campaigns and candidates, including former UK Prime Minister David Cameron,[13] Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy,[14] Prime Minister of Italy Matteo Renzi, and UK Prime Minister Theresa May, to name a few.

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8 users have voted.

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9 users have voted.

@humphrey

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17 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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5 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Bisbonian's picture

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2 users have voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

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4 users have voted.

future someone leaks/exposes the recruitment activity of the DNC to pack the primary with unqualified losers to dilute the votes. Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and the rest would have zero traction without the media fawning over them. It's disgusting.

@humphrey

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7 users have voted.

@entrepreneur and Bootajudges and Bloombergs etc are diluting the centrist field so much that it is probably keeping quite a few centrists away from backing Biden. Far more centrists fighting over the same turf than the couple of progressives, Bernie and Liz, diluting each other. Good news as I see it. Biden is the one drooling Dem I could see losing, and badly, to the Don.

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5 users have voted.

may be blowing up in the faces.
@wokkamile

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4 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I don't care whether Trump was using the Ukraine to get rid of Biden as a political threat.

Two things are true: 1)Biden is not much of a political threat to Trump, in terms of his quality as a campaign politician. It would actually help Trump to face Biden, who would be one of the weakest opponents he could face. If Trump was trying to get rid of Biden, he was shooting himself in the foot. He should be doing everything he can to subtly encourage the choice of Biden as nominee. Biden doesn't play well with the country at large, and is vulnerable as a candidate on several fronts.

I wouldn't take a job with Biden's campaign, and I don't mean for moral reasons. God forbid I should ever have to figure out how to defend or reframe Biden in a way that makes him palatable.

2)Then there's how Biden plays within the Democratic party--not to the country at large, but to active Democratic voters. He plays well with them, obviously (barring the possibility of rigged or deliberately skewed polling). But what's the key quality of this support?

It's unconditional. Or, at least, it's unaffected by charges of corruption. It also seems to be unaffected by charges of racism. It also seems to be unaffected by charges of touching children inappropriately. It also seems to be unaffected by Biden not remembering Obama's name (something that makes me pity him, not mock him, but it's not great for a Presidential candidate). What it would be affected by I have no idea. But, no matter what Trump dug up in the Ukraine, it would not deter Biden supporters--unless he happened to dig up bodies.

I don't expect Trump knew that, but somebody advising him should have. If I can see it, professionals should be able to.

It's possible, I guess, that Republicans don't understand authoritarianism and how it affects campaign politics. But if so, they are clunk-headed idiots who don't understand how they've been winning (when they have actually won) for all these years.

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12 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

WoodsDweller's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Losing.
Biden's support is a mile wide and an inch deep. I think I posted this a few weeks back, but very few of Biden's supporters (like 10%) are excited by him, and only about 30% are committed to him. People see him as the safe choice to beat Trump. Many more (like 35%) are excited by Sanders, but consider him to be risky.
The older voters are risk adverse. Actually, not just in politics, but in employment, investing, buying cars, relationships, etc. Younger voters are more risk tolerant, and that's where Sanders' support is.
If Biden loses the aura of safety then the 70% of his supporters that are still open to other candidates will reconsider.
If Sanders beats Biden badly in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada, I wouldn't bet on Biden surviving Super Tuesday. Conversely, if Biden wins one or two of the first three he'll likely stay in until the convention.

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5 users have voted.

"They're fearful because Bernie Sanders, his political revolution, morally based, ethically based, is a fundamental challenge to their interest and their status." -- Dr. Cornel West

How Joe Biden went from slumping to surging in Democratic presidential race in Iowa

Biden is now ahead or tied for the lead in Iowa with Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont. He has also risen into second place behind Sanders in polling averages in New Hampshire, the second state to vote in the nominating battle....

A win for Biden in Iowa could upend the race. Unlike Warren and Buttigieg, who are banking on a strong showing in the predominantly white state to propel their campaigns forward, Biden has far stronger support from African-American voters in South Carolina and other more diverse states that could help him seal the nomination.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden/how-joe-biden-went...

And Reuters doesn't even mention how far ahead Biden is against Sanders in Texas. The last polls in Texas in December had Biden up by 20 points over Sanders and Texas has 228 delegates. Sanders will probably not do well in the South, just as he didn't in 2016. The South is "anybody but Sanders" country. Probably holds true for much of the mountain west.
The states that never vote Democratic in the general, killed Sanders the last time. I don't know what kind of magical Sanders' strategy there is, that can turn that around this time.

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1 user has voted.