My Day in Court... Or... Jury Duty

Hey folks, Detroit here. I'm alive, I'm functioning, and I'm done with politics. Totally done. But when politics comes to ME, well, I'm gonna fucking say something.

So... got that lovely little notice in the mail. Jury duty. Fucking Jury Duty. Yeah, just what I fucking need, but hell with it, it's my civic duty, I'll go. And I'll do exactly what they tell me to do.

Got kicked off trials so fast it'd make your head spin. Apparently they really don't like hearing the words "Jury Nullification" come out of anybody's mouth. Especially if that person cites the Nuremberg War Trials as justification for why they would find for their conscience rather than the judges instructions.

Oh yeah, Let's get started... I'll give the Full version, so folks can enjoy and judge me based off my actions, because the court made their decision on me REAL fucking fast. I'd like to point out three things before we get started.

1. At NO point did I ever threaten, insult, or behave in an aggressive manner towards any court official, I sat calmly, my hands on my thighs at all times, sitting upright at attention. When it was my turn to speak I always rose to my feet, stood at attention, and ended all of my statements with Sir, Ma'am, or Your Honor.

2. I obeyed all LAWFUL orders of the court. I want to stress that. At no point did I call the judges out on their flagrant disregard for the constitution, or the prosecutor or the defense attorneys for treating us like fucking idiots. I understand that most jurors these days are idiots, and we're treated to the wonderful situation where we're judged by twelve people too dumb to figure out how to get out of jury duty.

3. I witnessed some of the most blatant corruptions of the legal system I have EVERY seen in my life. It was frankly disgusting, and I don't think I'll ever forget it. It has made me determined to never see the inside of a courthouse again.

So... 8 AM, I arrive. What's rather interesting is the Mural in the Multnomah Courthouse...
47.jpg I think it says exactly what's going on here. This is a fucking circus show, being dragged along by the Red and Blue, with somebody masked behind the reins, and we need to play our instrument and properly fall in line.

Nice little instructional video to start things off. What we do, what we see, what we can't see, and how we MUST, under EVERY circumstance, REMEMBER that we are LEGALLY SWORN to abide by the judges instructions. They don't call them orders, they call them instructions, but you're legally BOUND to follow them, everybody tells you... Except it's a blatant lie, you're not. You are allowed to find against the Law if your conscience dictates and you can convince everybody else on the jury of that fact. It's why the fucking Jury exists. It's a check on legality and rules and regulations put into place by the state. The jury can look at all of it, and say "That's fucking bullshit!" That's why it exists. But the court does everything it can to tell you you can't do that... and then they pick only the people that will listen to them for the jury.

First courtroom I was in, I saw it. They don't call you up anymore. They ask you to raise your hand if you have any "Problems with doing your duty to uphold the law." They'll give you extremely biased hypotheticals, where the guilt of the hypothetical party is of course, extremely obvious, and then ask you to agree with that statement. Scuse, me, do I get a lawyer here? IANAL, but isn't that a leading question? Then they inform you that you don't get to ask that kind of question. You're not on trial.

Second trial I was on I got tired of playing nice to all this bullshit. First one I simply told the truth, that I did not trust the words of police officers, or that they administered justice in any way. Second one, when the little weasel of a Prosecutor tried to get cute I got cute right back and stated that the Nuremburg War Trials were the precedent that stated I was obligated to find for my conscience not the law. Little fucker then immediately demanded the judge direct the jury to only answer questions.

So, yeah, I won't be serving on any juries. Far as I'm concerned, nobody with any brains or ability to stand up to the system will ever be selected to wield power, and they LIKE it that way in the courts. Right now, we've effectively merged high and low justice into a vile and unfair combination. We have the low/common justice, which is the jury trial WHICH the people have a right to. But then the fuckers pull a switch on you, and tell the jury they don't get to decide the case. They only get to decide the technicalities of the case. Essentially, the state/king flat out lies that the only purpose of a jury is to rubberstamp the police.

You wanna know why we have a 90+% conviction rate in this country? Because of bullshit like this. Juries are told they have no power, and that they are violating their oaths if they use their power. If you speak up to the lie, you're GONE, and they go with somebody else. And tell the other people that you were crazy, and don't know what you're talking about because you're not a lawyer.

Fuck em. I'm pissed off. Probably won't hang around much for comments. I'm alive, writing, angry, and losing faith in our government faster with every passing day.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0wW5sxlJGo]

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Just want you to know, you are the juror of my dreams.
Jury nullification is simply my heart.
You would be that guy on that panel that called out bullshit!
NOT GUILTY! BECAUSE BULL SHIT!
Welcome to my world.
I hope you are well, that your kids are great, and that dropping politics as a "thing" is good for you.
Check in any time to talk about the world, irrespective of politics, although politics is the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat.
Well, CYBER HUG!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

detroitmechworks's picture

@on the cusp I wrote three novels worth of collaboration notes, and a full novel with a co-author in the last three months. My online novel just hit one million views and 700 subscribers, (No, I'm not providing a link, it's smut) and I'm very happy with that.

I can say whatever the HELL I want in my novels, and nobody says a thing about it. I've complained about DHS, CPS, Airport Security, unfair gender norms, and lots and lots of discussion about ethical non-monogamy. So... you know... not exactly gonna make the new york times bestseller list.

Kids are better, but have had to play politics at schools, including walking out of an IEP meeting with the Oregon "Teacher of the Year" who wore that little title like a fucking crown and expected everybody to kowtow. So, yeah, I have a sliiiiight problem with authority these days.

Thanks for the hugs, and the welcome back. This was more a vent than anything else. Most of my writing is elsewhere, and I apologize for loosing my venom here. I don't want the negative energy in my other work, even if it does include a cameo from Eris.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks "Go where ya wanna go, Do watcha wanna do" and I see nothing wrong with that!
Write all the smut you want! Back when I was young, "Fear of Flying" was considered smut.
Times changes, personal interests change, abilities change. We learn new things, we forget things we once new. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Be who you wanna be, and make no apologies, my friend.
Take great care of yourself because your kids need you so.
Again, HUGS!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

detroitmechworks's picture

@on the cusp Since it takes over twenty pages to get to the first sex scene between a married couple who have had a LONG relationship established before the start of the story... But I enjoy writing it, and many people enjoy reading it, so... why not?

Almost feels like trying to write poetry. You'd think it'd be repetitive doing variation on BASICALLY the same activity, but with the setup, build up, dialog, setting... you can make almost the exact same scene a million times more interesting as both a reader and a writer.

(Doesn't hurt that I stole the cosmology wholesale from the Logos Series... what can I say? It was fun! And I worked very hard on those, so decided to make a fun little side project with the mythos... and what do you know, people liked it because it didn't take itself very seriously. ) (Seriously, 1 Million views in a Year and a Half? Even Dividing by the page count, it still adds up to a few thousand people reading it, which makes me feel good. And proving that people do like mythological stories... if you are sneaky about tricking them into reading it, like any good Greek.)

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEtdyn2QEzA]

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Raggedy Ann's picture

I like it. Pleasantry

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

detroitmechworks's picture

@Raggedy Ann Just gives the court grounds to declare a mistrial and pick another gang of idiots.

But hey, that's the way they play the game. They get as many redos as they want. You just have to lose ONCE.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

eom

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

detroitmechworks's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly Just a good vent, but thanks for the words.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Welcome back, DMW!

I have a favor to ask of you. Please stick around! While our substantive discussions are political, we're still a community, too. And that community is missing a substantially important part when you're not here.

Now back to our regularly scheduled chaos......

I am notorious in El Paso County, Colorado as a defendant's Juror. Not only was I a card-carrying member of the Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA) when FIJA last accepted members, but I also insist on a substantive direct-evidence case before I'll vote to fuck up somebody's life. FIJA advocates for every juror to be aware of hir right to hang a jury or nullify a case with a "Not Guilty" finding.

I think that somewhere in the DA's office there's a file with my name on it labeled: "Peremptory Challenge"! Smile

Once again, DMW, welcome home and please stick around!

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

detroitmechworks's picture

@thanatokephaloides The state allows 10-2 decisions for guilty. You need at least two others on the jury to agree with you, or ONE other in a 4-2 split for a six person jury.

But those little prosecutors were sickening. When the judge asked me what laws I personally objected to I was VERY tempted to say "I believe I have the fifth amendment right not to answer that question, your honor." But instead I played it fairly safe and said "Selective service immediately comes to mind, your honor"

Did everything they could to get me to change my story, but I was stubborn as hell, and wouldn't give the little fuckers an inch when they kept trying to be friends.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdEo_t-iVbM]

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thanatokephaloides's picture

You wanna know why we have a 90+% conviction rate in this country? Because of bullshit like this. Juries are told they have no power, and that they are violating their oaths if they use their power. If you speak up to the lie, you're GONE, and they go with somebody else. And tell the other people that you were crazy, and don't know what you're talking about because you're not a lawyer.

Fuck em.

NOOOOOOOOO!! Don't fuck them! You NEED your genitals!!

Biggrin

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

detroitmechworks's picture

@thanatokephaloides Buuuut... yeah, staying away from the alcohol on that one.

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Centaurea's picture

across the river from you, and I did much the same thing earlier this year. One day I went to the mailbox, and there was a jury summons from Clark County, WA.

I ended up in the jury pool for a criminal case. Some poor guy had taken his little boy fishing, and a WA State Wildlife officer happened by, counted the fish, and cited him for taking too many. The guy pled not guilty and requested a jury trial.

At the beginning of voir dire I mentioned that I'm a lawyer. In some states that would get me automatically excused, because they don't want people knowledgeable about the law to sway juries. WA doesn't seem worried about this.

During jury questioning, the prosecuting attorney really hit hard on "the law is the law, and jurors should uphold the law no matter how silly it is". Then she asked us to raise our hands if we couldn't promise to do that.

I raised my hand. The prosecutor started questioning me about why. I didn't get on my soapbox as much as you did, Detroit, but I didn't budge. It's possible that what I said (especially coming from a lawyer) made some of the jurors think a little. I don't know, because I never found out what their verdict was.

I'm sure the defendant's lawyer would have loved me on the jury. Unfortunately for him, I'm sure I was the first person the prosecutor used a peremptory challenge on. I use my independent critical thinking skills, refer to my conscience, and I'm not afraid to speak my mind. There's no way a prosecutor wants someone like you and me on their jury.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

detroitmechworks's picture

@Centaurea Is just to remind people that if they want out of Jury Duty, all they have to do is to demand their right to find according to their conscience.

I was about to start citing Sparf vs. United States (1895) when the attorney demanded the judge shut me up. She did, but smiled at me when she did it, so... good I guess?

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Centaurea

At the beginning of voir dire I mentioned that I'm a lawyer. In some states that would get me automatically excused, because they don't want people knowledgeable about the law to sway juries.

Them prosecutor types definitely do not want any body with analytical thinking skills either. You don't have to be a lawyer to know when you're being fed a line of shit.

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travelerxxx's picture

I've been on several juries. Most have been unremarkable, but one wasn't.

That one remarkable jury duty was for a RICO statute trial in federal court. This happened in Louisiana, about 25 years ago.

When I received my jury summons I was not too happy as I was aware there as a huge federal trial about to begin in our city that involved high-level drug running. High-level as in a bunch of barges loaded with pot had been busted by the feds as they were traveling up the Mississippi River. As I recall, this happened near Baton Rouge. This trial involved the likes of Barry Seal, who had just recently suicided himself ... or was off-ed by some drug cartel, or was off-ed by the CIA, or who knows. Also involved were notable places such as airports in Mena, Arkansas. Certain government officials were often mentioned. If you were up on such things back then, you'll catch my drift. If not, sorry.

Anyway, the whole downtown area near the federal building had been cordoned off with barbed wire and various security measures. I steered clear. Until I got my jury summons, that is.

The appointed day came and I checked in to the federal court. We were told that two juries were to be selected. There were several hundred of us for the lawyers to choose from. We all had to stand and state our name, address, and occupation, if any. For whatever reason, this narrowed things down to about one quarter of those in the pool. I stayed, most were dismissed. Questioning now proceeded in more detail. Evidently, I sounded good to someone as the pool was reduced to a few dozen. Not looking good, as I wanted nothing to do with the federal drug trial.

Finally, the juries were chosen for each of the two trials. I was lucky – I was not chosen for the drug trial. Rather, I was to be on a jury in a RICO trial. Whew! Or not...

It must be pointed out that all this coincided with the rise of the original "Patriot Movement." I had done a lot of reading about it. One of their big issues was something known as "jury nullification." I even had a pamphlet about it that some coworker had given me. I also knew to keep my mouth closed about it, or I could risk the ire of a certain federal judge. Nevertheless, I knew all about it.

Our trial was a bit of a joke. While it was a RICO trial (based on the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act), it shouldn't have been. The case was simply a sour grapes maneuver by some wealthy land owners who had contracted with a developer to build some very expensive office buildings on land they all had inherited. The office buildings were finished just as the early 1980's oil bust hit. As all the office buildings were to have been leased to oil companies, and the oil companies were going bankrupt, and with none needing office space the buildings and land ended up in default. Those involved in the development went belly up, and the former land holders lost all of it. Other means had been tried to get their land back, all failing, so their last resort was to attempt to use the RICO statutes against the builders of the office buildings. This was decidedly not what the RICO statutes were about.

Anyway, there were those of us on the jury who understood well that the RICO law was being misused. There were probably four of the twelve who understood this. Turns out, those four (me being one of them) was enough to short-circuit the whole mess. No one ever mentioned the term "jury nullification," but our actions said it loud and clear. In the end, no one got anything. They might as well have all stayed home or gone fishing. I felt good about the trial in that had the jury not contained a few of us that understood our power as jurors, things might have gone in a different direction and an innocent party caused to suffer. I was glad I never mentioned anything during jury selection that might have betrayed my knowledge of the power of a jury. So, I was a bit of a mole.

By the way, this trial took three months. I received my usual pay from my employer and also received federal jury pay. Believe me, if you are going to be on a jury, you want on a federal jury. No one pays better! I also learned a lot about the development of office buildings, their finance and construction, etc. It was a bit like a graduate course in that. Further, the lawyers involved were some of the most flamboyant ones Louisiana had to offer. One was Jimmy Swaggart's attorney, for instance (not that Jimmy was involved). Such fun!

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@travelerxxx What a wonderful experience! And verdict!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

detroitmechworks's picture

@travelerxxx Glad to see that I'm not the only one with a horrid experience with the justice system.

My previous experience was with California Family Court. Which Might as well have "Abandon All Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here" written on the door.

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snoopydawg's picture

@travelerxxx

I was aware there as a huge federal trial about to begin in our city that involved high-level drug running

As long as the banks, the CIA and the drug lords they protect get to get away with crimes after crimes I don't think anyone should be charged for running drugs. Or many other things for that matter. JP Chase should have been charged numerous times already under the RICO act, but they just get to pay piddly assed fines and then go on to commit more crimes. Laws and taxes are only for the little people and I'm tired of it. I just bought Dawg food from Amazon and I have to pay taxes on it, but Bezos doesn't have to pay one effing cent on $11 million. Nor do Apple and too many other companies. F the law right now until its fair for everyone.

Good to see you Detroit. I was just wondering about you this weekend and hoping you were doing okay. Stop in and rant more often.

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CS in AZ's picture

@travelerxxx

I too was initially not happy about it. And could not believe I was picked. I’ve been called many times but never selected before. In the end, i was glad I did it because one young woman did not go to jail who probably otherwise would have.

It was a case of a young woman in her late 20s who was charged with DUI and criminal damage because she wrecked an expensive rental car which she was driving at around 11:00 am on a Sunday morning after staying at a hotel the night before and a night of hard partying. She left the room and took the rental car (which was rented by her boyfriend, not her) to go home (according to her) or to out to do more drinking (according to the prosecution). She wrecked the car on her way back, just a few blocks from the room. She left the car and walked back to the room. The cops found and arrested her about 4 hours later, at which time she blew a 2.something on the breathalyzer.

She said she’d been very upset about wrecking the car and drank “a couple of 40s” in the interim due to her stress and fears of what would happen. They said she was drunk driving. They had a witness who claimed, ridiculously, that he had observed her “driving down the median going about 40 and sending palm trees flying in all directions.” He therefore concluded she was “obviously drunk.”

The trial went on for three days. We heard excruciating detail about how breathalyzers work. We saw pics of her crying at the scene, taken by the aforementioned witness. We heard her (now ex) boyfriend testify as a witness for the prosecution. In response to an obviously leading question from the prosecutor about “had he noticed anything in particular about her demeanor or state of mind” when she returned to the room, he said “she was really upset.” We even heard the prosecutor tell us what a nice car it was! “The very same type of yellow Camaro that was featured in Transformers!” (This really did try my ability to not laugh out loud.) But her message was clear: how DARE this little Mexican girl take and wreck such a nice car.

So at last came the jury deliberations. To my amazement, around 8 out of 12 voted guilty on both charges in the first two minutes. Sigh... this was going to be a long day.

One of them immediately demanded of us holdouts “you don’t think she’s guilty!?! Why not!?!”

I said, I think she might be, but that’s not the question we need to answer here.” Blank stares. I said, the question is, did they PROVE she is guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt. And obviously they did not. I then demolished the witness testimony about 40-ft high palm trees snapping off right and left like a cartoon as the car sped down the median. I took apart the stupidity of the entire fucking afternoon they wasted explaining breathalyzer technology, when they didn’t test her until hours after the wreck, thus proving absolutely nothing.

Oh it went on from there. The other not guilty holdouts added their perspectives and backed up the main points. The “guilty” holdouts could not let go of the idea, they simply *believed* she was guilty, and that was that. Getting them to actually follow the instructions and find not guilty, according to actual task at hand, was an immense challenge. We went home for the day. In the morning there were only 2 left insisting on guilty. The whole morning went to going over it all again. And again. Finally we convinced them. Nothing was proved. One man groused that he could not believe she would walk because she left the scene. Well, yes, basically that’s the law. Darn it. And we had a unanimous vote of not guilty on the DUI. which was the charge that would have automatically sent her to prison since it was not her first offense.

Then came criminal damage: the wrecking of the car “while committing a crime.” I thought this too was sketchy because they didn’t even address whether taking the car, which was not rented to her, was in fact a crime. One of the former guilty holdouts looked sternly at me over her glasses and said “I’m NOT voting to let her off scott free here.” No point in arguing with her. None. It had been a very long, exhausting week and so we agreed, guilty on criminal damage, not guilty on DUI.

The prosecutor and public defender both seemed amazed at the verdicts. The prosecutor asked for us to be polled, so each juror had to restate our decision in open court. Evidently they had all expected an easy conviction. (My friend who is a lawyer and has ins at the courthouse told me later, the PD was very surprised at the outcome.) I went home tired, happy, but also disturbed.

First, far too many people on that jury had no effing idea what the job actually was. Far too many were taken in by obviously dumb testimony and failed to notice key points like the time lapse between the accident and the breathalyzer test. The state did not really try to prove the charges. They relied on jury gullibility and exhaustion. I enjoyed immensely ruining their case. This one time.

But I never again want to be on any jury. The pressure was huge. From now on, I would just say NO, I am sorry, but I cannot be objective. They really pressure people to say yes, of course I can. That’s what good people say, right? But I’ll take their judgment, say no, and go home — if I ever get called again.

Epilogue: my lawyer friend also informed me about a year later that “my girl” (as I thought of her) who I helped save from prison and given a fair shake, had recently been convicted on a robbery charge and was now in prison after all. Sigh. I wish she hadn’t ever told me that. But I still know I did the right thing, and I’m glad I did.

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snoopydawg's picture

@CS in AZ

There doesn't seem to be a presumption of innocence anymore. This is what the jurors you describe tell me. They just listened to the prosecutor and made up their minds. I see this constantly on my local news website. Someone is just charged with a crime and there is an echo chamber of "throw the book at him" or "lock him up and throw away the key." Did the other lawyer say anything about the alcohol test two hours later?

People have decided that Trump is guilty after listening to the prosecutors witnesses, but have heard nothing from the defense. Even after the witnesses admitted that they didn't have direct knowledge of what he's being accused of.

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travelerxxx's picture

@CS in AZ

You were right to bring up the glaring points that should have been hammered-in by the defense attorney. But, IANAL so whaddaiknow. I'm not going to diss the PD. For all we know, this was likely just one of many case the PD was handling. I understand that in many locales these PD people are quite overworked and under funded.

No matter what happened with the lady later, you guys did the right thing at the time.

I'd agree with you that I don't want to be on a jury, but a lot of that is that I don't want to have to go to downtown Houston and fight the traffic to do it. Now that I'm retired, it's not such a big deal, but it can cause quite a hardship for working folks. If things drag out, a person stands to lose a good chunk of change as the local courts don't pay squat for jury duty ... barely covering gas money if there's any driving involved.

The last time I was called for jury duty was a murder trial. This involved the killing of a police officer, I later found out. I was nearly on this jury until they found out that my brother was a cop. As soon as I told them that, I was outta there. It certainly would have been high stress to be on that jury. I was pretty relieved to get dismissed.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@CS in AZ Police departments paint targets on people who "Get Away With Things". CPS does it too, but we won't go into that particular barrel of shit.

So, if yer gonna be a target... might as well do it with STYLE...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P-MKyb_h3I]

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ppnortney's picture

@CS in AZ

that jurors be willing to listen to each other with an open mind. The one trial I sat on was against a woman accused of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer. There was ample evidence for the first from the police body cams, and everyone agreed she was guilty. But though initially I concluded she was guilty on the second charge, the other jurors were adamant that had not been proven, and I realized they were absolutely right - there was no body cam footage of that even though there were something like 8-10 cops on the scene, and the only one who testified about it was the cop making the claim. The other cop who was helping him put the woman into the back of the police car when it reportedly happened had conveniently walked away, to get something from another police car. It stunk, frankly, but it took hearing from the other jurors before that part clicked for me. One of the problems was the absolutely LOUSY defense, who never pointed out these facts but asked questions intended to discredit the woman's parents (who had called the police because she was trying to force her way into their home) and imply her client's extreme reaction to a parole frisk was due to past sexual abuse. Interestingly, afterwards I got a card from the judge (as I'm sure everyone did) that was more than a thank-you for serving, I interpreted the words he underlined as thanking the jury for making the right distinction between the two charges.

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The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

Pricknick's picture

Nuff said.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

detroitmechworks's picture

@Pricknick @Pricknick And as a peasant... which 99% of us are, we WANT Low Justice, Not the unfair and unintelligible gibberish of the lawyers. Seriously, what kind of person demands that you study for years just to give your opinion when they specifically picked you because you do not have that knowledge?

That's the kind of bullshit that leads to revolutionary wars/Peasant's Revolts if the nobles win...

And more random music based off stuff I like.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=585W28cfz6Y]

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Alligator Ed's picture

In my more aggressive days, I was a medical expert witness. I had many stories to tell, when in an appropriate mood, which this isn't. But my favorite was being questioned on the witness stand by the District Attorney of Clark County, NV which is in Las Vegas. It was the DA, not any deputy or associate. After DA Knucklesdorfer asked me the basic identifying questions, he then got down to business.

Dr. Alligator (actually my real name is changed to protect the innocent), he started: "Would you not agree with me that blah...blah...blah and thus blah...blah...blah?"

Alligator responds: "Mr. District Attorney, which part of your two-part question do you wish me to answer first?"

Literally, his jaw dropped and he was rendered mute, remaining mute unable to cope for so long that the judge had to direct a line of questions to me. After 3 questions, my testimony was done. I am certain Knucklesdorfer would have taken an hour to arrive at the same place.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@Alligator Ed Especially when they "Run To Mommy" whenever you call them on their bullshit. Seriously, watch how fast a lawyer will demand the court shut you up if you say something they don't like.

I don't use this phrase lightly, but I know how scary it can be to stand in front of a courtroom and tell an attorney that he's full of shit and start quoting law at him... but that lawyer was a fucking coward. But hey, that's what I'd expect for somebody who treats the law as a religion. He even held up the rules of evidence and called it "The Bible". Then suggested that we needed to follow it like the bible. I WANTED to call him out on it, especially when he heavily stressed that "Loyalty" was something that "We all agree is our top Value".

Course I raised my head and said, NO, not even in my top three. He of course expected me to stumble, and asked "Well, what are YOUR values then? Top Three." That one I didn't even have to hesitate on for a second. "Discipline, Creativity, and Wisdom." I didn't add the "All qualities you clearly lack." But Everybody knew I was thinking it, and he didn't really didn't like that I kept talking about Justice rather than the Law.

Ah well... Let it go...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSsYTj9kCHE]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@Alligator Ed That the defense counsel was not smart enough to make?

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but that's not the story I want to tell. The jury I really wanted to be on but I wasn't able to was the PG+E San Bruno explosion trial. You know, the one where a natural gas pipeline blew up and torched something like a square mile of residential neighborhood (fortunately while no one was home) Well, I really wanted to make PG+E fry, (I would have been honest, but the case was obvious and the bastards were strung up for it without my help) but I had managed , after several tries, to get my primary to arrange an appointment with a neurologist and I knew that the trial would make me miss the appointment. So I told a half truth - the half where I admitted that having been a lifelong taxi driver, I had seen about 300 court cases (all but a small handful traffic court, but still...) and I had filled out the paperwork for half a dozen traffic accidents (working as an agent for the taxi company) and I had never seen a police officer tell the truth. I didn't have to say the other half - that I thought PG+E was pure evil and should not be allowed to exist. Needless to say I made my appointment.

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On to Biden since 1973

detroitmechworks's picture

@doh1304 And who nod along properly with the attorneys. They aren't as subtle as they think they are when they decide that you're gone.

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mimi's picture

there are no Juroren (=Schöffen) in German courts anymore. Have too much headaches to make it through the German Wiki page about "Gewschworenengerichte". This is a more general information about German courts. German Law and the German Legal System.

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I tell them how when I was a 16 YO defendant a police officer took the oath and lied about what took place on the stand. This caused them to decide not to set bail and get me sent to the county slammer for a while. When there I got to see the worst parts of our correctional system in action. I always tell the truth that I will never believe anything that a police officer might say on the witness stand. That is a 100% for sure bye bye from the court room move.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@jbob Because I did pretty much give the state grounds to declare mistrial, by openly declaring that Jury Nullification was a right. Which the judge did NOT contradict. Instead she changed the subject by talking about the "Duty of a juror is to follow my instructions"...

At this point... hell with it, might as well go whole hog...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olmkMs7314o]

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Thanks for calling it out. It can be stressful as all hell to do it, but we need more of this behavior in the herd.

As a teenager I was thisclose to spending a lot of time and money to become a lawyer but I had the good luck to have landed a job inside an attorney's office before I dug that giant debt hole, so I was able to learn all about what the system is and is not beforehand. I opted out of lawyering, more or less for the reasons you describe in this post -- just couldn't imagine wringing any joy out of my life being so furious all the time and getting buried in contempt of court fines/overnight clink stays.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@Reverend Jane Ignatowski Used to be a Low Justice court took place in the local bar, the Jury was picked, and they sat down and worked it out over a drink, then told the nobles to kindly go fuck off, situation handled.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyb1WV1-FxY]

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Lookout's picture

Nice to hear you and the family are doing well. Glad your writing is so successful! I thought your Logos series could be popular.

I'm never selected for juries. Been called up about 4 times County, State, and Federal. I don't have the right look nor attitude much as you describe. It is an injustice system we suffer.

Don't blame you for dumping politics. They are impotent and just kabuki theater to appease the masses...giving them the false sense of having a voice.

Take care of yourself. Hope your metal work is rewarding and judo is still a release.

Wishing you and yours the best!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

detroitmechworks's picture

@Lookout for Judo can find it on facebook on the Obukan Judo page. Me and my kids were the first FAMILY in the Dojo's 100 year history to all get promoted together, so kinda cool.

What's interesting about the way I'm doing it this time, is I'm using it merely as source material, and as a result it gives a basic erotica story a much deeper inner life/setting. (Seriously, the entire set up is almost formula, but the character interactions and symbolism I've been using throughout has allowed a much more fun story, which also feels more meaningful to the myths than Rick Riordan's Superheroes in Chiton.)

Metal work.. not going as well as I'd like. Unfortunately, having issues with the area, and looking to move ASAP. Lease is up next october, so probably looking to move this summer. Got a perfect rental history, unless my asshole landlord decides to start pulling shit, which he HAS.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

if you don't want to be bothered. (I won't ever have to worry about jury duty in this state again.)

It's worth checking into if you want a really easy out.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

detroitmechworks's picture

@TheOtherMaven But I said I was going to do my duty and that meant doing the job correctly, not how he wanted me to.

One other thing I got on my soapbox about was when he started talking about how "You might not see all the facts, do you have a problem with that." Then I started talking about lying by omission and how ethically he was required to present the facts as the State told him to, which could include MANY omissions... based off the rules of evidence. That's when he went into his little bible speech... The other Jurors said I was very entertaining at least, was the most interesting thing they'd heard all day.

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Starts with the fact that the increase in the number of courts since the early days of this country has not begun to keep pace with the increase in the population. And as a result, there is really no guarantee of a right to trial by jury the way the Constitution intended.

All kinds of rules are put in place to get around this reality and they just don't work.

Consider this fact. The very first Congress had 50 Representatives for 3 million people. We have one hundred times as many people today and about 9 times as many Representatives. I like to point that fact out to people who think our government is too big today and we need to shrink it to the level it was in 1790.

I would not be surprised to find out the Court system has fared no better. But I haven't really researched it.

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ppnortney's picture

@davidgmillsatty

I read a book in the '80s about how dysfunctional, underfunded and understaffed the court system had become and I don't imagine it has improved in the succeeding 30 years.

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The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

@ppnortney That the federal judiciary gets about 1/10 of one percent (0.1%) of the Federal Budget and it is supposed to be equal to the other two branches.

The Executive gots 99% of the Federal Budget and Congress 9/10 of one percent (0.9%).

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gulfgal98's picture

I sat on a sequestered jury (24/7) for over two months. This was back in the 1980's and some of my ideas have changed a lot since then. However, I never saw myself as being a judge of another human being's guilt or innocence. I saw being a juror as passing judgment on whether or not the prosecution had proved its case.

In our trial, it was a case of murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and RICO with four defendants. It is very easy to dismiss jurors as being stupid or pawns of the system until you have had to sit on a jury of the type I did. This was not something I wanted to do, but by the time I was called, all juror challenges had been used because there were no challenges to me (juror #11) nor any subsequent jurors called.

Several years ago, I wrote a series of blogs (over 15 years after) called Before You Judge about my experience because it had such a profound effect upon me. The juror experience occurred in 1984 and my blog was written in April and May of 2010. It took me that long to process the effect that this jury duty had on me. The link I have posted above is the simply first of six very lengthy blogs, including a postscript. It is extremely personal and I hope anyone who reads them will do so with that in mind.

No one can really understand how jurors should act until they have actually served, especially in such a case as I did. I am proud of my juror service. To this day, I firmly believe that based upon the evidence we had before us, we made the right decisions.

Those decisions involved four defendants and numerous charges. And not one member of our jury took our duties lightly in our decision making. Our verdicts were mixed with both guilty and not guilty decisions rendered, including a completely not guilty finding on all charges against one defendant.

I want to also say that being on a jury, particularly a sequestered one, is a very stressful one. Weekends were horrible and any day when we were not in court was incredibly stressful as filling time was not easy. If you choose to read my blogs, I hope you will not pass judgment on me, until you have walked in my shoes.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Centaurea's picture

@gulfgal98

I just spent some time reading your blog posts. I was living in NOLA then and have vague memories of hearing about that murder.

Two months incarcerated, er, sequestered as a juror. You're a better woman than I am; I would've gone bonkers.

I can see why the judge ordered the sequestration, though. It was for your protection. I guess that's what happens when the Chicago mob is involved. A bit scary to think about.

It sounds like the prosecutors didn't do the best job. Of course, it didn't help that their main witness died before trial. I wonder why they couldn't find any physical evidence whatsoever tying the defendant(s) to the murder.

Too bad there wasn't any. I did a quick search, and it looks like the one you thought did it served less than 1/3 of his sentence. He got out of the clink and continued on as before.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

gulfgal98's picture

@Centaurea to read it. Smile I would have made a terrible prisoner. I hated being locked up unlike some of the others on that jury who stayed around and went to the bar to have drinks together after it was over. All I wanted was out of there. LOL

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Last time I was called for jury duty I was also annoyed by the whole process since it feels like you're being herded around like a bunch of sheep. On the other hand you might consider whether having a skeptical juror on a panel might not save someone from being railroaded by the system. You can't do that if you don't get seated.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@MinuteMan and give another juror that idea. Watching what happens to somebody who openly says it might just give somebody the idea that... hey, this guy's got a point and they're shutting him up... gonna remember that.

But hey, I'm Army, I'm USED to being a target.

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