This should end the impeachment farce

No quid pro quo. No bribery. Zelensky said that he never felt pressured to do anything. Trump had said that he didn't like the amount of money being given to Ukraine by us when other countries weren't giving the amount they were supposed.

U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch is being held up as some type of hero because of her testimony to congress and because she was fired. But she had been fired long before the phone call was made because she had been bad mouthing Trump and interfering with Ukraine's government. She did have a no investigation list and one company on it was George Soros" company that had a hand in the Ukraine coup.

The Real Ukraine Controversy

The diplomat, as I recall, suggested that Yovanovitch had just caused a commotion in Ukraine a few weeks before that country’s presidential election by calling for the firing of one of the prosecutors aligned with the incumbent president.

Yovanovitch did give a speech on March 5, 2019 calling for Ukraine’s special anticorruption prosecutor to be removed.

And the Ukraine media was abuzz that she had done so. And yes, Under Secretary of State Hale, got peppered with questions upon arriving in Kiev, specifically about whether Yovanovitch’s comments violated the international rule that foreign diplomats avoid becoming involved in the internal affairs and elections of their host country.

Hale dutifully defended Yovanovitch with these careful words. “Well, Ambassador Yovanovitch represents the President of the United States here in Ukraine, and America stands behind her statements. And I don’t see any value in my own elaboration on what they may or may not have meant. They meant what she said.” You can read his comments here.

Up to that point, I had focused months of reporting on Ukraine on the U.S. government’s relationship with a Ukraine nonprofit called the AntiCorruption Action Centre, which was jointly funded by liberal megadonor George Soros’ charity and the State Department. I even sent a list of questions to that nonprofit all the way back in October 2018. It never answered.

Given that Soros spent millions trying to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump in 2016, I thought it was a legitimate public policy question to ask whether a State Department that is supposed to be politically neutral should be in joint business with a partisan figure’s nonprofit entity.

State officials confirmed that Soros’ foundation and the U.S. embassy jointly funded the AntiCorruption Action Centre, and that Soros’ vocal role in Ukraine as an anticorruption voice afforded him unique access to the State Department, including in 2016 to the top official on Ukraine policy, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. (That access was confirmed in documents later released under FOIA to Citizens United.)

After being tipped to the current Yovanovitch furor in Ukraine, I was alerted to an earlier controversy involving the same U.S. ambassador. It turns out a senior member of Congress had in spring 2018 wrote a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo alleging the ambassador had made anti-Trump comments and suggesting she be recalled. I confirmed the incident with House Rules Committee Chairman Pete Sessions and got a copy of his letter, which you can read here. Yovanovitch denies any such disloyalty to Trump.

Nonetheless, I had a career diplomat and a Republican lawmaker raising similar concerns. So I turned back to the sources I had developed starting in 2018 on Ukraine and began to dig further.

I learned that Ukrainian officials, particularly the country’s prosecutors, viewed Yovanovitch as the embodiment of an activist U.S. embassy in Kiev that ruffled feathers by meddling in internal law enforcement cases inside the country.

(Many links in the article not included)

BTW.. this was more of our tax money being given to Ukraine so we could get them to fight a proxy war with Russia. Obama withheld the weapons because he did not want to antagonize Russia. Holding up the money did not threaten our national security interests in any way. We do not have a treaty with Ukraine. If Russia decides to pound the crap out of Ukraine we do not have a responsibility to protect them. There are plenty of articles about how the democrats are up to their necks in the Ukraine corruption and I'm betting that when it's the republicans turn they are going to bring the information forward.

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lotlizard's picture

and you just told me, this is where you got your ‘clear understanding’.”
—— Rep. Jim Jordan (R–Ohio) interrogating Ambassador William Taylor, the impeachment inquiry’s “star witness.“

Jimmy Dore: “This is even lamer than Russiagate.”

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Lookout's picture

This is going to be bad for the dims. The rethugs are likely to turn the tables and reveal the dirty doings of the Obummer administration.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Anja Geitz's picture

@Lookout

Then we can hear other Democrats tell us we are turning into right-wing nut jobs any time we dispute the holographic legend Obama has become. To wit: I had a crew member tell me a few days ago I should stop reading Breitbart after I told him about Obama suspending habeas corpus for American Citizens when he signed the NDAA in 2013. I haven't heard anything further from him when I gave him a link to the ACLU calling out Obama's suspension of habeas corpus.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

@Lookout
Ukrainegate has not been kind to Trump in the polls.

Also I thought the law in question was "abuse of power" not bribery

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@gjohnsit But the support goes down the older people get and begin to have a clue what high crimes and misdemeanors mean.

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@davidgmillsatty
But being bad for Biden != bad for Dems.
I think it would be great for Bernie.

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@gjohnsit If he starts supporting impeachment he will obviously be seen as defending Biden. I didn't watch the debates but what I read indicted the candidates were avoiding the topic of impeachment. And even avoiding the topic can be seen as acquiescence to impeachment.

In 2016, Sanders dodged the email question and in the end I think it ended up hurting him.

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Also crazy, maybe more unbelievable? All the defending of Nancy Pelosi: to trust her, she knows what she's doing, she's got this. Mmhmmm.

Nancy Pelosi is going to be fundraising off Donald Trump and this alleged seeking of justice. The only time she is making any effort to push impeachment is when her own ineffective and betraying self is questioned or her power threatened. And all this nonsense about her quest for alleged justice is going to soon blow away when it's time to restart tearing down other congress members who actually are trying to put out America's fires.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Le Frog

The only time she is making any effort to push impeachment is when her own ineffective and betraying self is questioned or her power threatened.

Notice how all of a sudden it was imperative that Trump be impeached right after there were stirrings that Barr's investigation into the origins of Russia Gate were being talked about. And I am seeing lots of site's bringing up talks about RG that went nowhere. I think we will see even more of this happening as we near Dec 12 when Barr is going to release the report to the republicans.

Nancy has plenty of other reasons to impeach Trump on, but just like it wasn't worth impeaching Bush for his crimes, she doesn't want to go there. Why? Because both parties are in favor of what Trump is doing. Notice how there is no more talk about separating kids from their parents and holding them indefinitely against the Flores rule that states they can only be held for 20 days? When was the last time congress spoke to someone from DHS, ICE, or any other agency about that? BTW there are still tens of thousands of kids who have not been reunited with their parents and no one knows where they are. I think this is something we should be talking about.

Plus there is Trump's war on the environment. His war on Medicare, food stamps and lots of other things that are being swept under the rug by democrats. But then they too are helping Trump and the GOP on their war on the poor and middle class, but since everyone is focused on impeachment no one is talking about it. Hey, maybe they could ask Trump why he is ignoring congress' vote on ending the war in Yemen? Congress just told him that he has no authorization to be there. Trump.. "I don't want to end the war because we are selling lots of weapons to the Saudis." Nancy.. "Okay"

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

And I am seeing lots of site's bringing up talks about RG that went nowhere. I think we will see even more of this happening as we near Dec 12 when Barr is going to release the report to the republicans.

John Solomon has been writing some very detailed articles on both Russia Gate and Ukraine Gate and now comes the smear jobs against him. He used to write for the Hill until a D congress woman complained that he was not truthful. I usually follow the links he provides to see what they say and it seems they back him up. The NYT, CNN and other main stream media were writing about the Bidens and Burisma back in 2016 and he often links to their reports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/18/hill-is-reviewing-work-former-opinion-contributor-john-solomon/

The Hill on Friday suffered a black eye in the corridors of Capitol Hill. When a reporter for the Beltway publication approached Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) amid the impeachment furor, she asked where he worked. His answer pretty much ended the transaction.

“I’m not speaking to the Hill anymore. Sorry.” Then she explained: “I just find it reprehensible that any newspaper would just be willing to put that kind of crap out that is not — has no veracity whatsoever, and not check to see if it had any veracity,” Speier said, according to audio reported by Politico’s Michael Calderone.

Those comments were a clear reference to the beating that the Hill has sustained on the Hill. Witnesses have raised doubts in particular about the work of former employee John Solomon, who in March began publishing stories about Ukraine under the banner of the Hill. Though Solomon served as executive vice president for digital video, his investigative journalism was presented to readers as coming from an “opinion contributor.” Top State Department official George Kent, in his deposition in the impeachment inquiry, characterized one of Solomon’s key pieces this way: “It was, if not entirely made up in full cloth, it was primarily non-truths and non-sequiturs.” Others have cast similar aspersions on Solomon’s output.

This is an opinion piece in the Whaa Poo so take it for what it's worth. He has worked for many prestige news sites, but it has only been since he has been writing about Ukraine and Russia Gate that his work has been scrutinized. Hmmm

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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@snoopydawg is actually an effort to distract from and traduce Barr and Durham. As Russiagate was an effort to divert attention from the DNC rigging the primaries and demonize Assange, this is an effort to divert attention from the security apparatus meddling in the 2016 Presidential election and make the Barr-Durham investigation appear to be partisan politics.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

...who has been so careful to post his evidence AND acquire secondary confirmations — is something I have never seen before. Every news person and journalist I have ever heard of (except for three or four) is taking a crap on John. That includes the Intercept.

It's not the first time the CIA has compromised the entire media establishment. But many thought that couldn't happen again. So this is rather shocking. The CIA must be very, very frightened. Smells like Eau de Brennan.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@Le Frog as I imagine others have seen it, but apparently President Pelosi is "trending" on the Tweeter. Good God. Apparently some new dirt came out regarding Christofascist Pence so our Democrats are hoping for President Pelosi now... Just another day in Idiot America.

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snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7

Now won't Hillary be ticked if Nancy breaks the glass ceiling first?

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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them to fight a proxy war with Russia."

That sums up this whole policy difference turned Impeachment effort, one that will ultimately, inevitably, surely die in the Senate. It's an exercise in futility, one that enrages and deepens the partisan divide, further cross-cutting the American electorate into many splintered factions.

In one respect, this episode has done the American people a great service - it has brought the termites out of the woodwork, and shown the rot the New Cold War has created. We now have a much more complete picture of our taxpayer dollars at work in building the Ukrainian military, something the US corporate media has up until now almost completely kept hidden away. An open secret. No debate, just a fate accompli that reflects a Washington consensus that is not shared with the rest of America.

Curious that military aid is so little discussed or even known outside D.C., particularly as polling showed so little support for it when it started in 2015, and that it was divided along partisan lines. Even more curious that it is now the Democrats, having linked it to Trump, who now overwhelmingly endorse it as grounds for Impeachment. Four years ago, 6 in ten Democrats opposed lethal aid to Kiev, while Republicans were in favor. See my post yesterday, https://caucus99percent.com/content/short-blade-impeachment-most-america...

However, the Impeachment exercise is not without a cost way beyond the billions of dollars in expenditures for lethal assistance to Ukraine. That cost is the long term damage that yet another failed political spectacle is doing to polarization of the electorate, already violently split, and to whatever confidence remains in the ability of the Democratic leadership to competently lead the "resistance."

As I wrote in Polarization: Why Mueller Can't Fix This One, studies of civil conflict show that acute polarization is a particularly dangerous indicator of impending breakdown of partial democracies: https://caucus99percent.com/content/polarization-why-mueller-can%E2%80%9...

Quote:

Impeachment, without consensus, will therefore only produce more extreme polarization, and polarization is the single greatest factor shown to lead to breakdown of a particular type of democratic government – partial democracies, a category into which the U.S. has measurably declined – a type of regime which has been shown to be most vulnerable to violent regime change and civil war, according to the prevailing model that is employed by the CIA and State Department to predict conditions indicating political instability and favoring Foreign Imposed Regime Change (FIRC).

Other research has shown the deadlocked American political system producing chronic and rising levels of apathy and alienation.

Alienation is particularly associated with lack of efficacy. Efficacy is a political system's ability to peacefully and effectively resolve differences and allocate resources in a way that is widely perceived to be fair and just. The deepening crisis of systemic efficacy and legitimacy in the west is finally catching the attention of elites as well as experts, as the following from the Carnegie Endowment publication shows: https://carnegieendowment.org/2018/06/21/comparing-democratic-distress-i...

Quote:
The past few years have indeed been characterized by low levels of trust in political institutions and leaders on both sides of the Atlantic. In the United States, the percentage of Americans who expressed a “great deal” or a “fair amount of trust” in political leaders declined from 63 percent in 2004 to 42 percent in 2016, a new low in more than four decades.6 In 2017, only 12 percent of Americans expressed a “great deal” or “quite a lot” of trust in Congress, down from an already relatively low 30 percent in 2004.7 An index measuring “system support”—the degree to which Americans view their political system as fundamentally legitimate—shows a decline by 18 points between 2006 and 2014.8

Jack Goldstone, one of the preeminent social conflict theorists observes: [Goldstone, J., "Pathways to State Failure", Conflict Management and Peace Science, 25:285–296, 2008]

Quote:
states with both effectiveness and legitimacy are usually resistant to failure; states with either effectiveness or legitimacy are unstable and prone to failure under changing circumstances; states with neither effectiveness or legitimacy are (or very soon will be) failed states.

We are there, or very nearly. Polarization has merged with alienation. The crisis of efficacy has caught up with the older crisis of legitimacy. A massive investment in anything as obviously futile as Impeachment at this point indicates the Democratic leadership has more concern for keeping themselves in the spotlight and their base mobilized for the next election than in the long-term consequences of yet another political failure for the party and the American electoral system. America continues to slouch toward violent political breakdown and civil conflict.

Of course, that violence pales compared to the hot war that's being brewed with Russia and/or one of its major proxies. Historically, divided countries haven't done well in wars. If one wanted to create a failed state, in fact, that would be the quickest way to do it.

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snoopydawg's picture

@leveymg

it has brought the termites out of the woodwork, and shown the rot the New Cold War has created. We now have a much more complete picture of our taxpayer dollars at work in building the Ukrainian military, something the US corporate media has up until now almost completely kept hidden away. An open secret. No debate, just a fate accompli that reflects a Washington consensus that is not shared with the rest of America.

One of the real reason for both parties to be pushing Russia interfered with the election. People keep mentioning an op ed by Kissinger where he foresaw the rise of someone like Trump which he was in favor of because he thinks that we should take a break from our war on terror and redirect our energies towards Russia who stands in the way of our global hegemony. But with all the sanctions we keep putting on them we have pushed Russia and China together and both countries are getting away from using the dollar. Others are joining in too and then there is the BRIC movement that is joining so many countries with China. It might have to become RIC instead because Brazil is going back on some of there agreements.

That so many people think that we are at war with Russia and they have so many incredibly wrong ideas about what is happening is simply amazing. The things I read about that thug Putin and his invading Ukraine and trying to take over Europe again just blows my mind. SO many have mentioned mass hysteria gripping the country from all the propaganda the media is slinging.

Thanks for posting your info here.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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@snoopydawg as does his protege, the architect of the eternal Great Game/Global War on Terror, B. Brzezinski. I don't think Kissinger so much wanted to end the latter's GWOT as to see it unfold as part of a dialectic into a new and bigger war. Kissinger is a Hegelian, after all. Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis. Repeat. Evolve. Perfect.

Another bugger probably summed the dialectical logic of eternal conflict most concisely,: “We know who we are only when we know who we are not and often only when we know whom we are against” (Huntington, S., The Clash of Civilizations, 2003, p. 21).

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@leveymg Impeachment I keep thinking about that chapter on Watergate in "Family of Secrets" I believe. From a botched burglary (with amateurish detail in the book that in some ways is truly hilarious, as IF real spooks would do it that way unless they wanted to be caught), to a worthless place to even need to break in to get opposing political strategy in the first place, to Nixon's own paranoia about the Bay of Pigs and his at least making noises about the Oil Depletion allowance and making many of the same enemies as JFK in the process, as well as his own criminal acts, I have viewed this whole thing through that lens. Realizing that now, instead of assassination any deviation to the PTB will result in Impeachment, I just can't help but see this whole farce with Trump for what it is. And what an easy target for them, a man who is completely out of his depth with a massive ego and inferiority complex, he stumbled right into it. And all this to me is a limited hang-out as you say, as well as using one crime to conceal a far bigger one. And I do not believe he will be Impeached. The division in this country is working, distracting from the real root of the problem, as intended.

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snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7

Of all the things that presidents do it does seem kinda silly to impeach for such slight offenses. Nixon wanted to get reelected. Oh look..Trump wants to be reelected too. But commit war crimes and crimes against humanity and no one blinks an eye.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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@leveymg and creating failed states, right out of the CIA playbook. Syria, Libya, Iraq, etc, etc, etc. Now it has arrived here on full display for all to see. All but the American people who refuse to see it for what it is.

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@lizzyh7 hide Agency methods and sources from the American people.

Most of what we think we know about how the IC operates through leaks in recent times are limited hangouts, diversions or fractional truths revealed to deceive the jury and protect the guilty. The late Murray Bookchin wrote in "The American Crisis"(COMMENT vol. 1, no. 4 and no. 5 (1980)) was true about the Iran and Afghanistan "crises" then and proven many times since: http://social-ecology.org/wp/1980/08/the-american-crisis-part-1-and-2/

"To conceal real crises by creating specious ones is an old political trick, but the past year has seen it triumph with an almost classic example of text-book success."

So it is with Russia!! and Impeach Trump!!!

In fact, as we through a series of continual dribbles and the rare inadvertent exposures is that the IC are deeply involved in the domestic political process. They not only change policy at will, they make policy and policymakers, and remove those who don't cooperate.

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snoopydawg's picture

BearRepellantWEB.jpg

This totally misrepresents what is happening there because Zelensky has said that he is open to talks with Russia and Germany to decrease the violence happening in E Ukraine. Boy how will the democrats react to that? They don't have their puppet president Poroshenko running the show any more. What will they do to derail the talks?

I don't know how to square this statement by Sonderland after reading what Morrison stated in the first tweet here.

SondlandOpeningStatment_Point4.JPG

Lots of feelings, intuitions, beliefs and my opinions have come from this witnesses, but Zelensky himself has stated that he felt no pressure to do anything and shouldn't he be the one who holds the most sway?

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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@snoopydawg but remember that the liberal media are living in their own world. They have bought into the narrative that Trump was bribing Ukraine to investigate Biden so completely that they ignore any inconvenient facts. In addition many, media reporters are chosen for their looks not their brains. They may not be smart enough to look beyond the standard narrative even if they were motivated to do so.

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is an indicator of an end to anything no matter what any of us thinks will or should occur. This is another data point that is unlikely to change squat all. The clown car roller coaster will continue.

From this morning is testimony by US ambassador to the EU Sonderlund that there was a Quid Pro Quo. Powerful testimony I’m told by those who say they know. The same ones who say so much nonsense.

My personal peace is in jeopardy whenever I become more than vaguely aware of what is going on in the monkey house. It’s too easy to become over involved with any shred of “news” that confirms what I think or would like to see. It’s as easy to feel down when something goes counter to my desires too.

This shit is going to keep flying around the monkey house until they howl themselves hoarse or they run out of poo to fling. It may be me but I really won’t inflict the insanity on myself.

You all certainly free to do what you want. I can’t change or influence any of it. None of us can. Still, people that I know, respect, and love insist on wrapping themselves in the insanity to no useful purpose that I can imagine. None of them can’t either except by claiming loyalty to habit. “But you have to keep informed! How can you keep up with the news or what’s going on in the world?” is what I hear from normally firmly grounded friends. Or use to be. That’s friends who are always worked up. It’s hard to watch is all I’m saying.

I sure don’t understand why. Any good reasons out there? Why?

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@vtcc73

is so familiar to me personally and is what I read in comments at other blogs. You're not alone. And I think you are wise not to challenge your blood pressure or your spirit or your mind with the frustration, anger, and confusion that are the logical outcomes of watching the hearings or reading the media.

That said, for the people who can handle it, it is imperative for observers to stay focused on the evidence and try to maintain their objectivity so that reasoned arguments can be made. After avoiding this morning's testimony so I wouldn't freak out, I have become more calm after watching the YouTube video of Mr. Castor questioning Ambassador Sondland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjE6A459Tdw

I would say, stay away from mainstream media altogether. That's where it infuriates.

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@vtcc73

as to what you said here,

From this morning is testimony by US ambassador to the EU Sonderlund that there was a Quid Pro Quo. Powerful testimony I’m told by those who say they know. The same ones who say so much nonsense.

I too was thrown by that impression expressed by people who watched Sondland testify this morning. But Mr. Castor got Sondland to admit he heard no Quid Pro Quo from President Trump. At 11:10 in the YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjE6A459Tdw

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snoopydawg's picture

@Linda Wood

and others were involved in working with Hillary's campaign to dirty up Trump's campaign. This is the info that is eventually going to get out.

BTW I am not invested in the outcome one way or another nor am I getting angry over what's happening. I have been laughing about this since it started because the dems are up to they eyebrows in the corruption that happened in Ukraine after Obama's coup. I just keep seeing people saying NOTHING happened and then we get more people saying that they 'think' something did happen. Again Sonderlund was not on the call.

This all goes back to Brennan and his friends trying to get Hillary elected.

Thanks for posting the video links. This is worth listening to because of the history it covers. I hope he covers the money that Burisma channeled to the Atlantic Council too. Maybe it will come out if it goes to the senate?

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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Pluto's Republic's picture

Just a few minutes ago:

Ukrainian members of parliament have demanded the presidents of Ukraine and the United States, Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump, investigate suspicions of the legalization of $7.4 billion by the "family" of ex-President Viktor Yanukovych through the American investment fund Franklin Templeton Investments, which they said has ties to the U.S. Democratic Party.

The Bidens are called out for serious crimes in this action. They need to go to Ukraine to clear their names.

(The last time a country pulled a stunt like this was when Malaysia tried George W Bush for war crimes and found him guilty. Malaysia Air — with a 62-year record of accident-free air travel — immediately lost three passenger jets under mysterious circumstances. One went down over Ukraine. Malaysia Air went bankrupt.)

Ukraine wants their money returned.

The Ukrainian parliament is demanding that Volodymyr Zelensky fly to the United States immediately to secure its return.
.

Just Now:

BREAKING, Ukraine MP Says Hunter Biden Stole Millions From Ukrainian Citizens

Published November 20, 2019 at 10:35am

Andriy Derkach, a member of the Ukrainian Parliament, has linked Hunter Biden to some $16.5 million in stolen money.

And members of Parliament are demanding and investigation by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and United States President Donald Trump on millions allegedly laundered by the former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.

Former Ukrainian President Yanukovych is alleged, by the Parliament members, to have laundered $7.4 billion via Franklin Templeton Investments, a company with links to the Democrat Party.

“Last week, November 14, the Prosecutor General’s Office (PGO), unnoticed by the media, announced a new suspicion to the notorious owner of Burisma, ex-Ecology Minister Zlochevsky,” Derkach said.

“According to the suspicion, the Yanukovych family is suspected, in particular, with legalizing (laundering) of criminally obtained income through Franklin Templeton Investments, an investment fund carrying out purchases of external government loan bonds totaling $7.4 billion,” he said, Interfax-Ukraine reported.

“The son of Templeton’s founder, John Templeton Jr., was one of President Obama’s major campaign donors,” Derkach said.

“Another fund-related character is Thomas Donilon. Managing Director of BlackRock Investment Institute, shareholder Franklin Templeton Investments, which has the largest share in the fund. It is noteworthy that he previously was Obama’s national security advisor,” he said.

“President Zelensky must pick up the phone, dial Trump, ask for help and cooperation in the fight against corruption and fly to Washington.

READ MORE

[edit = correct link]

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Pluto's Republic

...right now. I have a prior appointment. But anyone who wants to run with the story is welcome to do so.

FYI REGARDING IMPEACHMENT: Trump began working on this specific investigation several months before Biden announced his run for President. I have news articles going back to January 2019 tracking his efforts to join an investigation with Ukraine. Trump began in earnest when it was clear that Mueller was winding up his incredibly long investigation into nothing but entrapping innocent witnesses into lying to the FBI, and filling indictments for an array of ham sandwiches in Russia.

Trump could easily have been impeached for war crimes. I would have welcomed that.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@Pluto's Republic This country has ever had could be impeached for war crimes. How many years of "peace" has this country actually had?

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@davidgmillsatty

But I only now fully understand what constitutes war crimes.

I am only thinking of one specific war crime that Trump committed.

I don't know what conventions were in place under most Presidents. But VietNam was a war crime from end to end.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus

@Pluto's Republic And while I am at it, let me make a point about war crimes. Early in law school students are taught that law is supposed to be the anti-dote to war. It is supposed to supplant war. Disputes should be decided civilly and without violence.

Or another way of looking at it is that war is a failure of law to keep the peace.

So the idea of war crimes is a bit non-nonsensical. If you are in a war, you have already defeated the primary basis of law in the first place.

Punishing some one for a war crime just seems to be a means to justify revenge or hate for what someone did in a war setting.

Food for thought.

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@davidgmillsatty
The UN finds no fault with wars of self defense or defense of others against an aggressor. Wars of aggression are war crimes.

The question of just conduct in war is a different subject.

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@FuturePassed War means the failure of the legal system. The fact that the UN wants to make certain things war crimes really does not change the fact that there has been a legal failure.

Think about Nuremberg. The Nazis and the Japanese were tried for war crimes because they lost. The victors were not tried for war crimes because they won. How can anyone say that the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not every bit as heinous as what the Germans and Japanese did. But the Germans and Japanese did not get to try our commanders for what they did.

So trying to make legal sense out of war which is an abomination of any legal system. Trying to claim a defender is not a war criminal and an aggressor is fraught with problems. What if the aggression was minimal, or contrived, or a false flag?

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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

There was a lot of players playing fast and loose in Ukraine and making lots of money that was supposed to be going to Ukraine not them. This is why it's so bewildering that this is the hill that democrats want to get Trump on. Will this get out?

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

We have no longer have a free press or national media. The Google monopoly censors the Internet on behalf of the State.

I don't think Ukraine cares if it gets out. They just want their money back.

If the Republicans wanted to really screw the Dems, the Senate would eagerly agree to an impeachment trial so Trump could mount this as a defense. Served cold.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Zero hedges has it from a different source and of course I have been tweeting it out. Goes back to the amnesia of Obama's presidency. Trump bad, Obama 8 years no scandals.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Jimmy Finkelstein, the owner of The Hill, has flown under the radar. But he's played a key role in the Ukraine scandal

Finkelstein resides at the nexus of President Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and John Solomon, the now-former executive at The Hill and current Fox News contributor who pushed conspiracy theories about Ukraine into the public conversation.
While Solomon has received significant media attention for his work at The Hill, Finkelstein has stayed out of the headlines, despite having himself played a crucial role in the saga.

Beyond his relationship with Solomon, Trump, and Giuliani, Finkelstein was Solomon's direct supervisor at The Hill and created the conditions which permitted Solomon to publish his conspiratorial stories without the traditional oversight implemented at news outlets. And he has kept a watchful eye on the newspaper's coverage to ensure it is not too critical of the President.

This story is based on more than a dozen interviews with current and former staffers at The Hill, in addition to people familiar with other relevant pieces of information.

Those people described a staff still in "revolt" over Solomon's columns and the way they were handled, including a lack of communication to employees about them even after the articles were thrown into serious question by witnesses in the impeachment inquiry.

The reporting helped trigger the chain of events that led to Trump asking the recently-elected Ukrainian president to probe Biden. And multiple witnesses have referenced the reporting in their testimonies before Congress, disputing the veracity of Solomon's columns.
One, Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, said of one of Solomon's stories, "I think all the key elements were false." Pressed further on the matter by Rep. Lee Zeldin, a New York Republican, Vindman said, "I haven't looked at the article in quite some time, but you know, his grammar might have been right."
....
"As you are aware, John Solomon left The Hill earlier in the fall, but in light of recent congressional testimony and related events, we wanted to apprise you of the steps we are taking regarding John Solomon's opinion columns which were referenced in the impeachment inquiry," Cusack wrote.

From the last link:

Fiona Hill - "We're in an environment where people believe an awful lot of things."

According to reporting by ProPublica, Giuliani and his associate Lev Parnas, who was recently indicted by federal prosecutors though he plead not guilty, "collaborated closely" with Solomon "to fuel spurious allegations involving the Bidens and Ukraine."

It sure would be interesting if those allegations are proven to be true.

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Rep. Stefanik questioning Ambassador Sondland today, brief and to the point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zn5a8s4KiA

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snoopydawg's picture

@Linda Wood

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Rep. Jim Jordan interviewing Ambassador Sondland, brief and to the point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJPTJudyHKo

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snoopydawg's picture

@coolepairc

Again why aren't people questioning this? The MICCPIC isn't admitting that Trump has been more aggressive towards Russia than Obama was. Joe posted Caitlin's essay in last night's EBs if people missed it.

Sondorland's testimony today was all over the place if people missed the video Linda linked. Really worth watching.

Thanks for posting this video. Unfortunately people will believe that it's just CT because they will hear no other words on Trump and Russia.

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Shahryar's picture

sometimes, I think, our deserved distaste for, disgust with, anger at the Dems makes us look at repubs as if they might not be what they are. We'll take their lies as truth if it reinforces our views on the dems.

Anytime a repub or a dem "tells the truth" it's only a surface truth. Underlying what they say is some maggot-y slimy ugliness.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Shahryar

...these waters without succumbing to confirmation bias. We've had discussions here about this hazard. People are shocked when they search for sources and explanations for the corruption they see, and find themselves at right wing enclaves; places that dished out a steady stream of ignorance, preposterous distortions, and sociopathy the last time they looked.

Conversely, who isn't disoriented to discover that the Democrats are the heart of darkness when it comes to illegal and murderous policies against humanity, at home and abroad? We ask ourselves, "Why are we only seeing this now? Was this going on with the Democrats when I thought I was affiliated with the party of peace and decency? Was I delusional?"

I suspect many here are like me. I keep testing to make sure my moral compass is calibrated. I find that my agreement is centered on very specific issues. Talk radio is a good testing ground. I am fine with Amy Goodman generally, but there are some issues where she is a disgusting hypocrite engaged in actual betrayal. And Mark Levine is always a hate-filled master of distortion — until that one day he was telling the truth with such precision I had to pull off the road to listen as he described exactly what I had doubted I was really seeing. He saw it too! The next day, however, he was a worm tongue, again.

So it's selective. And there are no monoliths. Both Parties are engaged in hypocrisy and manipulation. The people here are not children. They will not being sucked into somebody else's ideology. They are discerning..

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Shahryar's picture

@Pluto's Republic

I recall the moment I turned him off, never to listen to him again.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Shahryar

I remember it like it was yesterday. I felt betrayed. It was a dark time when many American investigative journalists were lost forever in the swamp, never to return.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

I have been trying to think of this word and I do wonder if I'm guilty of it. I try reading other sources, but when they continue to spew the false allegations of the Russian hack, Julian's role in it I tune them out. My local news media is full of AP articles that might hit on the truth now and then, but mostly it's false. I find it interesting that two people can hear something and get something entirely different from it.

One article I read was headlined:

Sondland says that there was Quid Pro Quo, but inside it talks about his beliefs. This is what the 1/6/17 intelligence report stated. All 17 intelligence agencies agree that Russia interfered with the election, but it only stated that Brennan had a belief in it or a high probability that it happened the way it stated. But the last tweet I posted is really worth listening to.

Reminds me of the times people go after Trump for doing something only to skip over the fact that it happened during Obama's tenure instead. The AP just tweeted that 100,000 migrant kids are locked up only to have deleted the tweet instead of offering a retraction. I'll post it in the EBs. But lol right?

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snoopydawg's picture

Sondland has been all over the map on his answers, but here he stating that he presumed that Trump was asking for investigations or the aid would not be released. How many more people need to say that they did not hear it either?

I think I have spelled his name wrong here and there..sorry.

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snoopydawg's picture

Rumors are that Schiff has lots of business connections in Ukraine and in the arms industry.

‘Witness’ Vindman Was Given Instructions By Corrupt State Department In Ukraine

Intelligence sources in Kyiv have informed CD Media that the ‘witness’ narrative of LT COL Alexander Vindman was created by corrupt U.S. State Department officials in Kyiv, Ukraine.

According to our sources, “Alexander Vindman [recent witness in favor of Trump impeachment], Gordon Sondland [US ambassador to the EU and Trump supporter] and Oleksandr Danilyuk [Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine from late May until 30 September 2019 before being fired] had a meeting in July 2019. Sondland asked Danilyuk as head of National Security Bureau of Ukraine to investigate Biden, Burisma, and Manafort related investigations. Apparently, Sondland didnt know that Danilyuk is Soros’ agent and supplies info to Democrats. This was the second leak to the Deep State. The first leak was made by Danilyuk because he was the only person in the room with fluent English when Zelenskiy and Trump had a phone call conversation. Zelenskiy speaks English on very intermediate level, loses the context and emotional sense…also, Yermak Andrei, the 2d Advisor to Zelenskiy is, allegedly, on the hook of FSB. Thus, it was Danilyuk who passed information to the Deep State to attack Trump.

No named sources so take it for what it's worth.

Burisma Paid Former Ukrainian President Poroshenko $100mm To Suppress Hunter Biden Investigation in 2017, Bribed FBI agents Ignored Evidence, US Embassy In Kyiv Neck Deep In Corruption

CD Media has been on the ground in Kyiv for some time now investigating corruption of the U.S. State Department in Ukraine, along with multiple Democratic Party operatives in-country, who have been involved in a massive money laundering operation of IMF aid funds, along with corrupt Ukrainian officials, including former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko.

What we have to say is truly shocking.

The theft totals in the billions of dollars.

In short, multiple intelligence sources have produced evidence which will soon be publicly announced that Burisma, the Ukrainian natural gas company that had Hunter Biden (Vice President Biden’s son) on the board getting paid fifty thousand a month, paid the former President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko $100mm (that’s one hundred million) to suppress the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office’s investigation into money laundering and kick backs to the Biden family, as well as other financial crimes. Then Vice President Joe Biden famously (in his own words) forced Ukraine to fire Viktor Shokin, the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Hunter Biden and the Burisma group of companies, threatening to withhold security and financial aid. Sound familiar to the current charges against President Trump? It’s called projection.

This is not the first time I have read something like this. If any of it is true then for gawd's sake why are democrats going after Trump for Ukraine? In what world does that make sense? Go after Trump before he can go after democrats?

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lotlizard's picture

@snoopydawg  
about things like the Uranium One deal …

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-...

And shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.

. . .

Whether the donations played any role in the approval of the uranium deal is unknown. But the episode underscores the special ethical challenges presented by the Clinton Foundation, headed by a former president who relied heavily on foreign cash to accumulate $250 million in assets even as his wife helped steer American foreign policy as secretary of state, presiding over decisions with the potential to benefit the foundation’s donors.

And before someone starts grousing about how we at c99 are supposedly always repeating “GOP talking points”: is this Fox or Breitbart? No, it’s from the New York Times.

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snoopydawg's picture

@lotlizard

this is what we keep being told has been debunked. This and lots of other issues that the media has covered in the past. The times covered Hunter Biden working for Burisma, but it's now considered CT.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

...that the impeachment whistleblower started a secret GoFundMe account for himself. He worked a Democratic Voter email list to solicit and collected a couple hundred thousand dollars, so far.

IG says it may be some kind of ethics violation for government agents to have tip jars. I figure he's prepping for the witness protection program. At least he figured out how to turn a profit on TDS.

Had to laugh over that one.

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The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
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