Biden plans to go after Warren

Speaking as a Bernie fan, this is good news.
Liz Warren has not been battle tested yet. Not by the media, not by other candidates.
I'm not convinced that she's a good debater yet.

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Joe Biden is expected to use this week's debate to argue Democrats should select a nominee who is able to offer "more than plans," an adviser to the former vice president says, previewing a potential line of attack against Sen. Elizabeth Warren, whose campaign mantra is "I've got a plan for that."

If Warren parries Biden's attacks then Biden will look weak and hasten his decline.
Advantage Bernie.
If Biden embarrasses Warren then the IdPol crowd will turn on Biden and call him sexist. Advantage Bernie.

Either way, Biden's attack will be interesting.

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While Warren has posted tax returns dating back to 2008 on her campaign website, the Biden camp appears to be calling for greater scrutiny of the years before 2008, the year she was appointed to the Congressional Oversight Panel that examined the government response to the financial crisis.

Warren, whose presidential effort is styled around fighting corporate America, has taken on corporate clients as an adviser or expert witness on bankruptcy in the last 20 years. In May, her campaign posted brief descriptions of her roles in those cases and some of that work has been questioned during her two Senate campaigns in Massachusetts.

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Wally's picture

. . . really surprised me. It seemed to come out of nowhere. Then there was a decent article on Bernie and M4A by Sydney Ember whose sole purpose in this campaign istm was to do everything she could to knife Bernie smack dab in the chest and a few times in the back for good measure.

I've long surmised that Biden would have some tricks up his sleeve. I kinda think this is just the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if Biden's folks have provided all sorts of graphics and background info to MSM to prepare them to take additional slams at Warren. Tsk-tsk.

Of course, Biden and Warren will also be slamming Bernie's socialism like nobody's bizness soon enough.

Maybe the articles cited were just a way of jukin' Bernie to keep him off guard.

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@Wally surprise me if the Warren camp is also helping the MSM debate hosts do their homework on Biden.

Tricks? Even if he has them ready, will the declining Biden be able to deliver or will he further embarrass himself? I doubt if the very able EW will have trouble handling doddering Joe.

Should be a more interesting show this time however, as apparently this is the first time these two non-friends have been on the same debate stage, and I wouldn't expect it to be a lovefest. Joe with his name-recognition-driven frontrunner status has plenty of soft support that is ripe for the picking, so a big opportunity for Warren.

Might be an opportunity too for Bernie as those two go at it, if that does in fact happen. But also a chance the lion's share of gains from those exchanges would go to Warren if she does indeed successfully navigate the attacks.

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Wally's picture

@wokkamile

I don't watch MSM aside from clips I come across so I have no way of really knowing how representative they are but the impression I'm getting is that just about every network is covering for Biden. I don't have a good sense at all how they are covering Warren though I guess it's mighty favorable, too.

Biden hasn't really plummeted in the polls despite all the blows he's been clocked with here and elsewhere (but not so much on MSM as far as I've seen). I'm not so sure Warren won't get flustered if she's attacked and go all Howdy Doody on him. My guess is she's going to act like she's been assaulted and start going on about how wrong and unfair it is. Mean Man Joe. We'll see.

I'm pretty sure, though, that Warren won't go after Biden on his Iraq vote.

Hey, let's not forget the other folks up on that stage, too. It's now or never for them to score some points. I don't imagine the DNC is going to keep putting up 10 candidates much longer.

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@Wally more recent debate experience than Joe -- several rounds with Scoot Brown and then last year against another Repub, probably several encounters. She was assertive and at times aggressive going after Scoot and also not letting the moderator constantly try to interrupt her.

Joe only had a couple of no-decision bouts in the VP debates, one against the hapless ignorant Sarah Palin. Not huge successes for him as I recall, and that was when he was younger and still coherent.

Joe strikes me as the guy in the ring who has taken a few blows -- in his case, many self-inflicted -- so has been softened up but is still standing and thus many in the audience don't notice what has happened. But things are not looking good, and a few more blows could cause the legs to wobble, which the audience will notice.

When you look at some of the Warren-Scoot debates, you notice Warren was not shy about going on the attack and assertively counter-punching. I was a bit surprised as I went in expecting to see a nice, polite, soft-spoken academic type. I think she's shown she can be an effective debater and against tougher opponents than the current version of Biden.

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earthling1's picture

Oh wait, Warren is a nerd.
What doe Biden have in mind?
Throwing darts at a wall full of countries needing regime change?
Creating a "Biggest donor wins" contest?
Or just turning over the entire government to special interests to run as they please (status quo)?
Don,t make me gaffe. Or, "Gaffe me with a lawn chair".

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more than a handful of voters will care about her taxes going back farther than a decade or legal work for a few corps long ago. I think some of this same material for attack was attempted by Scott Brown, and it didn't seem to resonate with the voters of MA.

Generally, while only a few candidates have been directly challenged in these soft debates so far, I would expect the former Harvard LS perfesser to be ready to handle them, and then pivot to direct some tough questions at Joe Biden -- and there are many more big issue awkward questions to pose to him that will be of interest to voters than the relatively small-time things that appeal to professional debate bean counters that could be used against EW.

Given Biden's current obvious declining condition, struggling to get basic historical facts right and forgetting which state he's in, he's more likely than not to stumble badly in his presentation of the allegations. Or cut himself off in the middle of an attack -- "Looks like I'm out of time ..."

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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

ByeDone - "The American people aren't stupid and of course they will accept it when we put social security and Medicare on the table just like MyBoss tried to do and Clinton wanted to."

Americans need to understand that our donors want to strip all of the assets from this country and continue their wars for oil, gas and minerals. If that means grandma eats cat food so be it.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

ovals49's picture

@snoopydawg
The only gorilla in the room I see is the MIC and it’s proclivity for foreign interventions and asset stripping of third world nations. Biden wants to feed that monster with the nation’s health and the people’s defined benefit retirement plan? That’s insanity of the highest order!

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“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein

“And an uncomfortable truth is always superior to a comfortable fantasy.” Caitlin Johnstone

snoopydawg's picture

This sure seems like Warren is being backed by CAP.

Oops...

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg You and Elizabeth Warren are the most progressive out of all of us and progressivize way better than anyone!

I am still waiting for Neera to find the exit to irrelevancy and take it.

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@snoopydawg

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@gjohnsit how does Elizabeth Warren reconcile her public distaste for Big Banks and have endorsing one of their biggest BFFs? Sure would be nice to get an answer from Two-Faced Warren on this.

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Big Business. In Canada, we're about to enter a federal election, expected to officially start this week and we go to the polls in October. Of this year. Sometimes I wonder why can't the U.S. do that and then I remember that a lot of money is to be made the longer it goes on.

Anyway, onto my rambling: even knowing that this is the design of the system and not a bug, this spectacle still awes me with the batshit insanity. Every couple of weeks, I check in to see who is still in the primary race and to confirm that Joe Biden hasn't dropped out, despite all of my hoping. Some of these people have to be completely checked out of reality to believe they have a chance, let alone any of the qualities needed to be a strong leader. (I actually have a hard time fathoming out how a Marianne Williamson thinks she has what it takes. I would love to know how she could be someone's #1 choice. I wouldn't even bet that her own mother would vote for her.) I also see a large group of Establishment Heirs (Booker, Castro, Harris, etc) and if I were them, I'd be pretty pissed off that Joe Biden has suited up and has jumped into the race. A lot of these candidates to me feel like they were ready and interested in a run in 2016, but were pushed aside because it was Her Turn. I'm not saying I feel sorry for anyone, perhaps more a graceful understanding if they were feeling super-bitter and wanting to kick Joe Biden through a wall instead of debating him from all the way at the edge of the stage, brushing the curtain aside when it falls forward.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Le Frog

after the midterms? It's insane that we are subjected to this clown show for this long, but that is what the PTB want. They want us to focus on this instead of all the horrible things Trump is doing. And that the democrats are saying or doing nothing about it. How many of them have spoken out about his deregulation bonanza? I still don't see how it's legal for him to just disregard the laws congress has passed. I know others are suing him, but what are the democrats doing?

how does Elizabeth Warren reconcile her public distaste for Big Banks and have endorsing one of their biggest BFFs? Sure would be nice to get an answer from Two-Faced Warren on this.

Easy. She is lying to them. Her grassroots campaign is just a scam. She took lots of money from big donors before she declared that she was running. Then she transferred that money to her campaign. Easy peasy...

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg I would like to see her face when someone poses this question to her. A frog can hope!

As for Trump doing whatever he wants, I think that's par for the course for the American president, no matter the party. Illegal and scummy shenanigans going on in the POTUS office are tradition. As far as the Democrats showing up, I believe they are merely waiting for their turn to plunder whatever is left to plunder. I do not expect Democrats to do a damn thing.

On a people level, anecdotally, I don't think that manufactured "news" is even necessary as a distraction. I get the impression that many Americans are too overwhelmed in daily life to be paying attention, never mind outraged and taking action. Just as an example, I haven't seen very much of this covered, but I read somewhere that miners in Kentucky are in a do-or-die fight with a mining corporation for their last paychques that were never issued. How economically devastating, and I can't blame them for not having the energy or the inclination to pay attention to Donald Trump's latest idiocy. It's one dot in a huge churning sea of despair. (I read about it first in the context of the Sanders campaign sent the protesters pizzas, I think it was Vice?) And people like 2Faced Warren know that. I didn't see her in Kentucky. I didn't see the McResistance there either. Donald Trump sure as hell won't be showing up, and I bet Mitch McConnell is actively avoiding it.

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Warren. I'm beginning to suspect she may well become President in January 2021.

No, I have no confident expectations about what such a Presidency would look like, for good or for ill.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd I mean trump won. lol.

But seriously, at least from where I stand, the only candidate I see any enthusiasm for is Trump. And the people in the Midwest still love them some Trump. That’s what whomever the Dems select will be up against. I just don’t see any Dems inspiring that kind of enthusiasm period. That could just be where I am and it may not matter. Who knows? But I think it was telling in 2016.

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@Dr. John Carpenter Do you see any midwest enthusaism for Sanders, Doc?

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@davidgmillsatty mostly 2016 stickers people didn’t scrape off their cars. To be fair, I’m not seeing much current Dem stuff at all.

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mimi's picture

I thought he prefers young girlies. Sigh. Where love falls down ... Man in love

I wanna pony and a lollipop. gjohnsit ... stand by us ...

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TTTT (too tired to talk)

Centaurea's picture

@mimi

of Joe with his hands on middle-aged women's shoulders while he sniffs their hair.

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

So just what will he attack her with?

Strategies are one thing, but getting them to come out of his mouth in an orderly way AND getting him to FOCUS, is quite another. This could put Warren in a position to mop the floor with old Joe's brain, and if that happens, it will not be good for Bernie. It will make her look strong. All she has to say is, Hey Joe, don't you have any plans? Why are you against plans?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02 1987 YT video

A Firing Line friendly Demo Debate, Joe Biden's first run at the presidency. A much younger, coherent, articulate Biden. Clearly capable of organizing thoughts and words to launch an effective attack.

Look also at a young Al Gore -- what might have been in 1988 for both of them in a race Dems should have won. Instead, with their badly flawed candidacies crippling their chances, we got Dukakis who didn't defend his wife or liberalism.

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Wally's picture

@Fishtroller 02

. . . they will more likely go to Bernie than Warren because Bernie is waaaaay ahead of all other candidates in terms of being Biden supporters' next favored candidate. ISTM that whatever pts Warren has picked up, they've mostly come from Trainwreck Harris and other candidates who have fallen or are soon to fall to the wayside. And I think her purported surge is waaay overhyped. There are at least a few polls that show that it's Bernie who is surging and not her.

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designed to stir up focus and excitement for the two DNC-preferred candidates while completely ignoring "that other guy." Sounds just like DNC and MSM tactics, doesn't it? At this point, they want to go forward with an exciting primary featuring their two brightest stars fighting it out (with maybe a groomed newcomer waiting in the wings) -- and they want Bernie to just go away and disappear.

They're good at doing that and ... gee, where's Tulsi? Primo Nugmeg did a great interview with her a few days ago in which she was very forthcoming about the DNC/MSM games:

Her decision not to run 3rd Party is entirely reasonable and well thought-out.

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to take another stroll down memory lane ca 1987, and innocently found this one from an IA debate Aug 23, '87. I thought -- gee, that seems awfully close to the time when Biden was forced to ....

So glad I stayed to the end for the payoff. It happens at the very end, Biden the last to do his closing. This is the moment. Around the 1'47" mark.

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