It Should be the End of the Line

king trump.jpg

Question - Should Trump's latest tweet "ordering" American companies to leave China be the end of the line? He's certainly said and done many things that should have ended his insane clown act in the White House, but this one combined with all the ones before it, should be the final straw. Shouldn't it?

I mean think about what he said.

"Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing... your companies HOME and making your products in the USA."

He also tweeted:

"We don't need China and, frankly, would be far... better off without them."

"Our Country has lost, stupidly, Trillions of Dollars with China over many years. They have stolen our Intellectual Property at a rate of Hundreds of Billions of Dollars a year, & they want to continue. I won't let that happen!"

Set aside the rest of his statement and focus on the "hereby ordered" part. Uttering those words should be the end of Trump. A clear progression has occurred in Trump's mind and his actual uttering of those words shows without a doubt the man is delusional. Regardless of that, his saying that is a clear violation of the constitution and the entire basis of this country. Not to mention the war like atmosphere and unpractical and dangerous foreign policy and economic aspects to his "order". At the very least, a stern and unequivocal reprimand is in order. The fact that it won't happen also shows how far down the rabbit hole our country is now. For the democrats to not bring this forward, as representatives of the people, to censor or remove this asshole shows how fucked up scared and pathetic our political system has become. And how our supposed democracy is just a fraud. Trump can say something like this and we don't even fight back.

Of course, constitutionality and common sense aside, Trump's supporters not only won't be swayed, they'll love it. At least most of them, some will be a little uneasy that their war criminal in charge wants to act like a fucking king. But that won't stop their support in the end, i.e., the next election, because the other side is much, much worse.

And believe it, the democrats and their supporters want their own king, or queen.

But to me, the "hereby ordered" statement is like the icing on the cake, the cork in the barrel, or the lipstick on the pig. I'm not saying I needed it, I'm saying that should be all WE ALL need. For that to occur without repercussion other than parodies on the internet shows how much of an illusion, and delusion, our so called democracy has become.

WTF Happened to THIS!!

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snoopydawg's picture

Trump is doing so many things that are bad for the country and yet once again Nancy is not doing anything about it. There are many things that she could impeach him for, but she won't do it because her donors don't want him gone yet. Trump is good for the one percent and once his usefulness has run its course he will be gone. As usual it's all about the donor class.

Fixed typo

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22 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg I mean, let’s give credit to the sarcastic clap heard round the world!

/s

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wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

miz nancy's got him right where she wants him: stalemated!

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Lily O Lady's picture

@snoopydawg

horrible neoliberal they shove at us.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Big Al's picture

@snoopydawg but my point is this should be it for everyone if they had any respect for democracy, liberty and freedom. We can't allow one person to rule us like a fucking king. Imo, he just made it crystal clear.
But, it doesn't seem to get the rise from most others that it does me. Maybe we're so far gone, democracy means nothing anymore.

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12 users have voted.

@Big Al from a corporate CEO who does business with China.
Trump's "order" should be plastered in every headline, should dominate the news channels.
There should be millions of protesters in the streets.

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Creosote.'s picture

@on the cusp
are not generally there because protesters are all too well aware of the levels of surveillance now available, in operation, and being developed. One of the reasons the young people's great responses to Greta Thunberg have been important has to have been that the worst (lethal) aspects of surveillance could not be actively directed against them -- or their parents -- without the lockdown becoming too obvious. So far.
That was the lesson of Kent State and Occupy.

[edited for spelling errors]

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5 users have voted.
ggersh's picture

@Big Al tells me that demoKracy is long gone

We live in a period of oligarchs/neolibs/noecons

delusional doesn't quite capture the full character
of what the tRumpolini not that I have a better word.

and remember the tRumpbots and the MSM will never
abandon das furher II

Set aside the rest of his statement and focus on the "hereby ordered" part. Uttering those words should be the end of Trump. A clear progression has occurred in Trump's mind and his actual uttering of those words shows without a doubt the man is delusional. Regardless of that, his saying that is a clear violation of the constitution and the entire basis of this country. Not to mention the war like atmosphere and unpractical and dangerous foreign policy and economic aspects to his "order". At the very least, a stern and unequivocal reprimand is in order. The fact that it won't happen also shows how far down the rabbit hole our country is now. For the democrats to not bring this forward, as representatives of the people, to censor or remove this asshole shows how fucked up scared and pathetic our political system has become. And how our supposed democracy is just a fraud. Trump can say something like this and we don't even fight back.

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9 users have voted.

trump will be amerika's last president

ameriKa's been crapified and yes that
has trickled down

Big Al's picture

@ggersh and just keeps getting bolder and bolder when they don't stop him. I read earlier that supposedly Trump had met with some republican senators and told them that he would be willing to cut SS and Medicare if he wins in 2020. Like he is the decider. Imagine Trump winning again and how that would affect his mind. None of the dem party contenders will say a word about his megalomania and the proper role of the president.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Big Al

Since Trump is saying that he won't leave office if he doesn't get reelected. Of course we have laws against that, but we have laws and regulations against many of the things Trump is doing. He decided to use national security to get around congress not funding the border wall and the court upheld that. Obama used it to put sanctions on Venezuela which had nothing to do with national security.

This might have started under Nixon, but Cheney took it to a whole new level and of course Nancy did nothing to rein him in. She is getting orders from someone and I'd like to know who? Bibi? The other donors who tell them what to do? And let's not forget all the legislation in place that can lock this country down in a NY minute. After everything Trump is getting away with how much worse will the next president be? People warned Obama to curtail lots of things before Trump took over, but he didn't.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

travelerxxx's picture

@Big Al

... I read earlier that supposedly Trump had met with some republican senators and told them that he would be willing to cut SS and Medicare if he wins in 2020.

Big Al, if you can recall where you read this information, I'd really like to read it.

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Big Al's picture

@travelerxxx Hard to say how to interpret this, Trump goes back and forth. This is probably his idea of negotiating or even a bigger bipartisan agenda to set up future negotiations, and compromises, particularly since senators from the repub party are delivering this "message". Start high, low, whatever, made the people think they could very well lose if they don't compromise, etc.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-medi...

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travelerxxx's picture

@Big Al

Thanks, Big Al.

I'm looking for that silver bullet that I can pass on to others. A statement from Trump that he intends to attack SS and/or Medicare would be invaluable. Of course, Trump could state it flat-out on national television, and then deny it the next day ... and most of his MAGA posse would eat it hook, line, and sinker. Not everyone would, though...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg

"we tortured some folks"

if not sooner.

I mean the end of the line for us and for the rest of the people of the world. I don't give a shit when, or if, the end of the line comes for Trump.

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7 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

bondibox's picture

President Trump has unveiled his plan for creating incentives to speed up the rate which American companies halt overseas operations and return manufacturing to the United States, exclaiming "Last one's a rotten egg!"

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10 users have voted.

F the F'n D's

Centaurea's picture

bit the dust. Trump could have started enforcing this "order" with her use of underpaid Chinese labor to manufacture her over-priced products

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13 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Centaurea He had a line of ties made in China. And what about MAGA hats?

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boriscleto's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter Not to mention the little US flags...

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

Raggedy Ann's picture

Herr Drumpf ain't goin nowhere. He's their guy! Pleasantry

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8 users have voted.

“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.”

-- Voltaire

boriscleto's picture

@Raggedy Ann The King of Israel.

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14 users have voted.

" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

Raggedy Ann's picture

@boriscleto
We just can’t!!!!!

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4 users have voted.

“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.”

-- Voltaire

ggersh's picture

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3 users have voted.

trump will be amerika's last president

ameriKa's been crapified and yes that
has trickled down

Wetware same as software, consumers conflate free meaning no dollars with freedom meaning liberty. GOTV Donate Now!

idiocracy achieved

Freedom means sacrifice, sorry not sorry. "Free" social media costs "nothing". People watch youtube all day and night and think they are radical cord-cutters. omg wtf monopoly duopoly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

PEACE

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wendy davis's picture

in his ‘Trump escalates economic confrontation with China’, 24 August 2019

it's far too long to know which portions i should paste in, but of course it amounts to 'full command and control of the great competitors, russia and china'. war by economic means, and well as control of the south china sea are two prongs of the same 'war'. he's been seeking allies for his patrols of the hormuz strait as well, finally found a couple puppets to obey him.

'The rising trade war comes amid rapidly escalating military threats and provocations against China by the US. Just hours before Trump’s Twitter outburst, the United States sent a warship through the Taiwan Strait, following a major new US arms sale to Taiwan. Washington has also vowed to stand by Vietnam in its escalating conflict with Beijing over disputed territory in the South China Sea.

Earlier this month, after the United States officially pulled out of the INF treaty that restricted the production of certain nuclear missiles, Defense Secretary Mark Esper said that he would like to begin deploying medium-range missiles near China within a matter of “months.”

This week, Esper said the Pentagon must focus on preparing for “high-intensity conflicts against competitors such as Russia and China,” declaring that the US production of weapons banned by the INF treaty is necessary to “deter Chinese bad behavior.”

Since the crushing of the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989, the American corporate oligarchy has used China as a giant sweatshop, extracting profits from its massive working class while using the threat of “offshoring” to drive down wages within the US and internationally.'
......................................................
But the entry of China-based companies into high-value-added industries—such as semiconductor design and production, cell phones, high-end machine tools, medical devices, and optics—has placed them in direct competition with US-based companies, threatening their control of the pool of profits sweated out of the international working class.
......................................................
This starkly poses the significance of Trump’s “order” for American companies to leave China. Under normal circumstances, American presidents have no such power. But in wartime, presidents have asserted sweeping powers to mobilize the economy, and Trump’s statements have such dictatorial overtones. In this context, his repeated references to extending his presidency beyond constitutionally-mandated term limits and his “jokes” about cancelling the 2020 election take on an air of plausibility.

Trump's outbursts and escalation of trade war clearly rattled financial markets, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunging more than 600 points. His bitter denunciation of the Federal Reserve chairman can only intensify the sense within significant sections of the ruling elite, and not only within the United States, that Trump's policies are leading to a disaster.

However, despite the deep divisions that exist within the American ruling class, the confrontation with China would not end even if he were replaced. While there may be differences with Trump's methods, there exists a broad anti-China consensus, based on the global interests of American imperialism.

What makes the situation exceedingly dangerous, however, is that there exists no politically articulated opposition to Trump’s policies, which are bringing the United States on a collision course with the world’s most populous country.

For three years in a row, the Democrats have voted for Trump’s record military spending increases, raising defense spending from $619 billion in 2016 to $738 billion in 2020.'

he quotes a couple NYT op-eds, notes that the DOW dropped 600 points (big whoop, it' still at 26,565 or something. but it all made me think of appple's foxxcon factory in china that
required suicide nets so many workers were jumping off the balconies to end their miseries.

great graphic, by the way. ; ) and thanks for the post.

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@wendy davis From the articley you quote.

"there exists no politically articulated opposition to Trump’s policies, "

Watched Aron Mate on Jimmy Dore today, and as Aron has stated that the democrats drew many people to the streets defending Jeff Sessions than over Trump's tax cuts. In fact there were NO marches on Trump's tax bill.

There was a silly march on April 15, tax return day, the follow on to the Women's March (organized by same people) to demand that Trump reveal his tax returns (hoping to reveal direct Russian financial ties). I followed as many of the marches as I could on streaming media, etc. and absolutely nothing about tax inequity, audits of poor people, etc. Nope, it was anti-Trump AND anti-Russian. (When did so called liberal Americans start protesting an ethnic group.)

While Russiagate will still be around, it lacks teeth as a political attack against Trump. Which is why he can start saying outrighteous shit even for himn.

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Big Al's picture

@wendy davis The part about "there exists no politically articulated opposition to Trump’s policies, which are bringing the United States on a collision course with the world’s most populous country.", is probably because the end goal for the U.S. manifest destiny always has been China and Russia, and whether they wanted to or not, now is the time to do it or the quest for world hegemony will be over.

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8 users have voted.

Just been around too many judges lately. Interviewing those authoritarian conservative ones. Itching to do it again as soon as RBG ......

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Granma's picture

End birthright citizenship. That outraged me, before this Chinese thing happened.

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Big Al's picture

@Granma The point is, we're allowing one person to do this? I don't know, seems like this should be a wakeup call, like, hey, it's real. I don't know how we can allow this, but it seems that people are just used to it or something. He just made it clear and simple.
It's like we can't do a thing about anything.

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lotlizard's picture

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Big Al's picture

@lotlizard 40 years, but now it's Trump and it's all so blatant and in your face. Like daring people to do something about it knowing they won't. Trump could be doing us all a favor but I doubt we'll take advantage of it.

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Eagles92's picture

@Big Al Most people I know are outraged every time Trump opens his mouth. (I'm not, because I like to avoid high blood pressure without the need for medication, which means I also must avoid Twitler and any coverage of him. Being whipped into a frenzy all day, every day, is not -- as the kids might say -- my "jam.")

There are two problems as I see them. One, because of said above-mentioned outrage, I think people have become desensitized. 24/7 coverage of his every racist, misogynistic, ignorant, narcissistic, downright idiotic, blatantly inflammatory and everything in between utterance is a feature, not a bug. They expect him to open his mouth and unleash a torrent of stupid/arrogance, so when he says things like "I hereby order," people just see it as another "Trump Being Trump" moment. Which plays right into the oligarchs' hands, doesn't it? It's all by design. He's a rodeo clown. Getting caught up in his cult of personality is completely missing the point. (I'm actually a little confused that you've joined the ranks of those who see Trump, and Trump alone, as an existential threat? I know that you know the gig; he's just the one to play the openly fascist role in order to accelerate the agenda in ways that previous figureheads had to dance around and/or cloak in less odious language and legislation). Whether or not he personally believes he can order anyone, or any company, to pull anchor and leave China, the fact of the matter remains that he cannot -- at least at this particular moment in time -- actually make that happen all by himself. He'll require aiding and abetting and for that, look no further than Ms. Nancy "Roses" Pelosi.

Two, disregarding everything I just said above, I don't think people know how to effectively organize against this shit. There are simply too many other things to be outraged about, and we've been effectively conditioned to compartmentalize our outrage based on IdPol and other discrete issues, which prevents any kind of mass organization against even the most egregious abuses of power. Not to mention the fact that most of us already know what will happen if mass organization were ever to occur. I don't need to rehash the lessons of Occupy and police militarization and suppression of free speech, because all of these have so eloquently been covered in many rich essays and comments here.

So to answer your question, why isn't this the end of the line? Because, how in the hell do we truly have the power to do anything about it?!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Eagles92

I'm actually a little confused that you've joined the ranks of those who see Trump, and Trump alone, as an existential threat? I know that you know the gig; he's just the one to play the openly fascist role in order to accelerate the agenda in ways that previous figureheads had to dance around and/or cloak in less odious language and legislation

He's also the one who's being used, quite effectively, to rehabilitate all those previous figureheads and wash them clean of all their sins. Last night someone with a Warren sign in her yard told me that the Bushes and McCains and other previous Republicans looked so much better than Trump, and that she had some kind of feeling for them now. It was almost like she missed them. This is a Democrat from the left wing of the party, who is now speaking almost fondly of George W. Bush. And it's not the first time I've heard that. I'll never forget the time I was over at my mom's and she was watching the news, and she said "Wait, I want to hear what Jeb Bush has to say."

None of them apparently remembers that eleven years ago, they all hated Bush.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

He's also the one who's being used, quite effectively, to rehabilitate all those previous figureheads and wash them clean of all their sins.

McCain became a hero of the left when he voted against destroying the ACA. Bush became rehabilitated long before the picture of him and Michelle exchanging candy at McCain's funeral. Robert Mueller who lied to the world about Iraq having WMDs became the White Savior because he was going to take down Trump. And then there was Comey who saved Her's ass from being charged under the espionage act only to have become the bad guy again after he told congress that most of Hillary's email had been found on Weiner's laptop because her aid and BFF sent them to him. He had a duty to do that, but that didn't stop people from saying he cost her the election. Of course it wasn't that Hillary did that in the first place. Oh no... it was someone else's fault that she got caught.

Grr.... Yes Trump is doing bad things to our country and getting away with it because the democrats are complicit, but he really isn't doing anything that his predecessors didn't do before him. Has Trump taken away our rights like Bush and Obama did yet?

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6 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

It's like we've time warped back to the 1930s. There may be something to the theory that after 70-80 years folks die off and previous lessons are forgotten and need to be relearned.

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mimi's picture

@JtC @JtC
sorry, sometimes I am sleelpless in ... whereever, but not Seattle for sure.

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TTTT (too tired to talk)

Big Al's picture

(Edit - reply tp JtC above) a number of similarities to the 30's also. But this guy is so bad, when I'm offered a choice between him and someone else to vote for, I'll vote for someone else. If they haven't got him out of there sooner. It just has to be done.

Smile

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Eagles92's picture

@Big Al I honestly don't understand.

You've consistently been our anti-duopoly, anti-warmonger, anti-climate-change-denier (and the related anti-barriers-to-meaningful progress), anti-incrementalism advocate ... and now you're "Anyone But Trump?"

How does this jibe?

Before JtC can say it, I'm not BAA. I just don't get it. Are you saying you'd vote for Biden if he were Trump's opponent? Harris? Warren? You've even openly and repeatedly renounced Bernie, and have very publicly expressed no love for Gabbard. So what's the deal? Why is this one ridiculous utterance from Twitler the last straw for you - the thing that will make you drop everything you've previously said and get in line to vote for a duopoly candidate? Even when you know that none of them has the 99 percent's interests at heart?

I mean, to each their own, but the dissonance here is deafening.

I guess I'm just sad this site seems to be falling victim to the same old, same old, political horse race (NOW! Even more protracted! TM) discussions that easily can be found elsewhere. I'm only speaking for myself, but after finding my way here in the wake of what happened with Bernie, and learning from people like you why things shook out the way they did, and further having my mind and perspectives expanded to understand that electoral politics haven't ever addressed the collective experiences, and hopes, and demands, and needs, of the 99 percent ... well, who's going to carry that mantle now? What's the ultimate lesson? That we're all supposed to subjugate our best collective interests just so that we can say we were in the "right" camp of those who didn't vote for Trump?

If that's the case, then we, the 99 percent, may as well just give up. Because while we fall on our righteous swords, we'll do so knowing that we've given up on our planet, and on our children's and grandchildren's futures.

Fuck that shit.

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Big Al's picture

@Eagles92 I think you've nailed it. I retract my statement and will leave it open. If it is Sanders, then I don't think we have much choice, the difference in my mind is stark. I'm so frustrated with Trump and imagining him as president for five plus more years, which is hard to imagine, that I also succumbed to the lesser evil trap.
The problem is, as opposed to Bush and wanting him out of office, is I truly believe Trump is nuts. I was thinking earlier that I don't think I've ever disliked anyone as much as him. I was way too early going there.
But you're right, thanks for the reality check, and the encouragement, i.e., your statement encourages me.

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Eagles92's picture

@Big Al Believe me, I've been on the verge of it myself, and it's only been thanks to strong, rational voices like yours that I haven't. So when I see you teetering on that same ledge ... well, I want to at least try to offer the same encouragement.

We 99 percenters have to stick together. I still don't know how or if we'll "persist" (gag, Liz), but I still think we have to try, and have a lot to learn from each other outside of electoral politics. Myself, I'm really beginning to embrace the idea(s) of individual and community resilience as the ultimate form of resistance. I'd love it if essays around this topic -- many of which have already been written and continue to be written -- would at least have a chance of competing against those highlighting who will and will not be included in the duopoly debates, and what Trump did or did not say in the last five minutes.

I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter in the end.

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Big Al's picture

@Eagles92 I gotta say, I needed that. Peace. You know, about every day I wear a t-shirt either saying "Stop the Wars", or one with a giant Peace sign. I get a lot of people saying they like my shirt. There is hope.

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Eagles92's picture

@Big Al Because it will not be televised.

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Big Al's picture

@Eagles92 If there's anything that bugs me, it's being ruled by one person. That is so far out of my comfort zone that watching what Trump says and does (I also railed against Obama and Bush in this regard) and the lack of reaction to his wielding power is hard for me to take. So when I saw him, imo, "going there", by saying the words "hereby order" to US corporations, I just thought that was the utterance of a mad man. I'm not sure of anyone else who would say something like that and I think it is so far out of bounds that it has to be challenged.
Based on that, the appeal of strategically participating in removing him from office while keeping the fire going on the duopoly, etc., formed my passion driven reasoning. But, I'll reevaluate.

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Eagles92's picture

@Big Al These are the kinds of conversations that keep me coming back here.

Give and take. No predetermined ideology nor any blind loyalty to same.

Thanks for the dialog. Looking forward to more.

(And on that note, time to hang it up for the night, but I'll certainly check back in the morning. Pleasant dreams to all ...)

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Eagles92's picture

@Big Al

"'Hope'is the thing with feathers - That perches in the soul - And sings the tune without the words - And never stops - at all -" - Emily Dickinson @Eagles92

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Wally's picture

@Eagles92

. . . be relearned and reinvigorated?

It's difficult, for me at least, not to feel enthused and emboldened by the likes of these kids:

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@Big Al besides the Irish landlords starving half their population while exporting crops elsewhere... oh man, I know in my bones it is in my DNA or something. Fight monarchy! wtf Monarchy is the direct opposite of democracy isn't it? opposite day every day

This is the beat down, beating us down until ABT... Anybody But Trump. Oh looky! the "other side" has twenty wookies to placate us while the beat down continues. I'm like fucking Miss Nancy with the romper room mirror... I see Bernie, I see Liz, I see Joe, run Joe run. omg wtf They all just want The Pen now, it has so much power like a magic wand. "I hereby order Medicare for All!" lol

PEACE

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@eyo

Any President who tried to say "I hereby order Medicare for All" would find himself enmeshed in a scandal that would bring him down. In the unlikely event that failed, he would probably end up on TV resigning from the Presidency. Failing both those, he'd eat something that disagreed with him.

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9 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal now that Sanders has publicly dismissed the suggestion he should maybe not burn the world so fast a la jet fuel... hmph. Suddenly I can't tell which essay I'm in, tempus fugit. Wasn't CT last week's topic, or some week nearby. hot air Speaking of which, why do I keep confusing Heinlein with Schrodinger? TMI, too much information. oy

What I need is some quality Collapse Denial psychotherapy, or maybe just plain old talk therapy but first I must wait for the professional class to catch up and grab some clue. oops wrong essay again. doh! See ya Outside later. ta

PEACE

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@eyo

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4 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al

to burn the planet and do their best to get us into a nuclear war with Russia. Why wouldn't we "allow" him to order American companies to leave China?

This seems an odd hill to die on. In a world where any one of us can be picked up, tossed into a jail with no due process, tortured, and be left there to rot, in a world where the U.S. can invade and destroy other people's countries with impunity, killing millions, in a world where I might not get to have an old age because human civilization will fall before I get to die, meaning that I'm going to have to start talking suicide plans with my family pretty soon--and NOT because I actually want to commit suicide, in a world with all this, and more, going on, the final straw for us is the sanctity of the U.S. private sector? The problem is that Trump is dictating to a bunch of multinational corporation heads where and how they can do business?

Even if we've decided that the most important thing in the world is the protection of private enterprise from authoritarian government, why are we starting to get angry now? Didn't the ACA dictate to the American people that we have to enter into contracts with a bunch of gouging shysters? Don't the sanctions on Venezuela, and the sanctions on Iraq before them, dictate to American businessmen where and how they can do business? Why is ordering a bunch of Sam-Walton-like bastards to get out of China, where they've made business deals with other bastards, disturb us so much that this is the final straw?

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Big Al's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal "The problem is that Trump is dictating to a bunch of multinational corporation heads where and how they can do business?
Even if we've decided that the most important thing in the world is the protection of private enterprise from authoritarian government, why are we starting to get angry now?"

No, that's not at all what I was saying. I've written essays in the past about Trump and I said this isn't what I needed to say he's got to go. I tried explaining why in the essay and in some comments. I was simply saying that his "hereby order" statement hits to the very core of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It hit me as completely antithetical to what this country is supposed to be about.
It was more a, "if people don't get this one, we're completely FUBAR".

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Granma's picture

@Big Al after reading the discussion between you and Eagles and thinking about evil and lesser evil, what hits me about Trump is that he seems to be making evil ok in minds of many of public. Other presidents have certainly done lots of horrible things. But it seems to me that Trump's insanity endangers us in new ways. Something has changed. Evil used to hide. Now it is open. But it is more than that. When evil does not even try or need to hide anymore, we are in real trouble. Trump has to go!!

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snoopydawg's picture

@Granma

elderly and disabled too is getting lots of yippies from his base because they don't like people sucking off the government dole even though many of his supporters are on it.

From his work requirements for food stamps, trying to cut people off federal programs if they are on more than one and now his trying to gut the fair housing act as well as his previous attempts like you mentioned the 14th amendment and his trying to make discrimination against LBGT... legal where there are 3 cases in front of the supreme court right now. His gutting regulations that were passed by congress get nary a whimper of media attention nor are democrats speaking out about it. So yeah he is a very dangerous president, but he couldn't be doing that if the rest of congress weren't agreeing with his policies.

Ben F'cking Carson who Warren voted for cuz she was afraid Trump would elect someone worse is a traitor to his race, but then so is Trump, DeVoz and the rest of his cabinet.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Granma's picture

@snoopydawg for any one to get. And most people don't realize that. Programs that were existed before say Reagon and Clinton either no longer exist or have been cut almost to extinction. Blame their not knowing on the media. A lot of that doesn't exist anymore either.

Think of all the newspapers that have ceased to be. Radio and TV station ownership consolidated and that resulted in multiple radio stations ceasing to broadcast. There are a lot fewer "news" sources and the ones left don't broadcast or print much actual news.

You are right about Congress. They just go along. They can because they do what they do in the dark. Their votes aren't going to be on the nightly news or tomorrow's newspaper.

I can feel discouraged because so few people are awake. But to be fair, people have to work pretty hard to know what is going on.

It is hard for me to believe it is actually okay with ordinary Americans for us to imprison children, torture, murder hundreds of thousands or millions of people around the world, let children, and old or desperately ill people die for lack of medical care, go hungry, be made homeless.

TPTB have always done their best to divide us. I think what frightens me is the divisions between the have nothing's, the have a littles, and the ones hanging on by their fingernails. We aren't too far from outright killing each other off. I don't know whether I'm more worried about WWIII or a civil war. But I don't like feeling that either might happen at any time.

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9 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Granma

I was expecting him to talk about how homeless people are being rousted by cops or something else about how people who are down on their luck are being penalized. Nope. The guy was going on about the homeless pooping in the streets. How people with mental illness are not being put in prison and others camping wherever they want. But this is what no one is talking about when they bitch about people down on their luck.

Programs that were existed before say Reagon and Clinton either no longer exist or have been cut almost to extinction.

Why did Ronnie close all the mental hospitals and gut the services that they relied on? This increased homeless every year until we are seeing the numbers we are. Bill gutting welfare is still having very cruel effects to this day. When people lose their jobs they have no safety net to fall back on. During Obama's tenure people who relied on food stamps could only get them for a short period of time thanks to the rules put in place during Clinton's tenure. Funding for food stamps, HUD housing and every other social program has been cut under every president since Reagan. The Greatest President since FDR cut over $8 billion from just food stamps alone. Juan or Julian Castro did a lot of damage to the HUD program after Obama appointed him to run it.

So yeah the social programs are running on fumes now, but that isn't enough for our masters. Oh no people are still living the high life and they need to suffer more. How many of them call themselves Christians? WWJS when they meet him at the big pearly?

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5 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Granma

the evil of the Bush Administration, for instance, which has now had a total reputation makeover on the strength of not being Trump.

Also making evil normal the way you mean. But that's just a side benefit.

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7 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

wendy davis's picture

@Eagles92

estimable comment. may i quote a blurb on sheldon wolin's 'Democracy Incorporated Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism?

"Democracy is struggling in America--by now this statement is almost cliché. But what if the country is no longer a democracy at all? In Democracy Incorporated, Sheldon Wolin considers the unthinkable: has America unwittingly morphed into a new and strange kind of political hybrid, one where economic and state powers are conjoined and virtually unbridled? Can the nation check its descent into what the author terms "inverted totalitarianism"?

Wolin portrays a country where citizens are politically uninterested and submissive--and where elites are eager to keep them that way. At best the nation has become a "managed democracy" where the public is shepherded, not sovereign. At worst it is a place where corporate power no longer answers to state controls. Wolin makes clear that today's America is in no way morally or politically comparable to totalitarian states like Nazi Germany, yet he warns that unchecked economic power risks verging on total power and has its own unnerving pathologies. Wolin examines the myths and mythmaking that justify today's politics, the quest for an ever-expanding economy, and the perverse attractions of an endless war on terror. He argues passionately that democracy's best hope lies in citizens themselves learning anew to exercise power at the local level."

or at the nation magazine in 2003 re: Bush?

"The increasing power of the state and the declining power of institutions intended to control it has been in the making for some time. The party system is a notorious example. The Republicans have emerged as a unique phenomenon in American history of a fervently doctrinal party, zealous, ruthless, antidemocratic and boasting a near majority. As Republicans have become more ideologically intolerant, the Democrats have shrugged off the liberal label and their critical reform-minded constituencies to embrace centrism and footnote the end of ideology. In ceasing to be a genuine opposition party the Democrats have smoothed the road to power of a party more than eager to use it to promote empire abroad and corporate power at home. Bear in mind that a ruthless, ideologically driven party with a mass base was a crucial element in all of the twentieth-century regimes seeking total power.

Representative institutions no longer represent voters. Instead, they have been short-circuited, steadily corrupted by an institutionalized system of bribery that renders them responsive to powerful interest groups whose constituencies are the major corporations and wealthiest Americans. The courts, in turn, when they are not increasingly handmaidens of corporate power, are consistently deferential to the claims of national security. Elections have become heavily subsidized non-events that typically attract at best merely half of an electorate whose information about foreign and domestic politics is filtered through corporate-dominated media. Citizens are manipulated into a nervous state by the media’s reports of rampant crime and terrorist networks, by thinly veiled threats of the Attorney General and by their own fears about unemployment. What is crucially important here is not only the expansion of governmental power but the inevitable discrediting of constitutional limitations and institutional processes that discourages the citizenry and leaves them politically apathetic."

or Louis Lapham's 'Due Process: Lamenting the death of the rule of law in a country where it might have always been missing'.?

"To pick up on almost any story in the news these days—political, financial, sexual, or environmental—is to be informed in the opening monologue that the rule of law is vanished from the face of the American earth. So sayeth President Donald J. Trump, eight or nine times a day to his 47 million followers on Twitter. So sayeth also the plurality of expert witnesses in the court of principled opinion (media pundit, Never Trumper, think-tank sage, hashtag inspector of souls) testifying to the sad loss of America’s democracy, a once upon a time “government of laws and not of men.”

The funeral orations make a woeful noise unto the Lord, but it’s not clear the orators know what their words mean or how reliable are their powers of observation. The American earth groans under the weight of legal bureaucracy, the body politic so judiciously enwrapped and embalmed in rules, regulations, requirements, codes, and commandments that it bears comparison to the glorified mummy of a once upon a time great king in Egypt.

Senior statesmen and tenured Harvard professors say the rule of law has been missing for three generations, ever since President Richard Nixon’s bagmen removed it from a safe at the Watergate. If so, who can be expected to know what it looks like if and when it shows up with the ambulance at the scene of a crime? Does it come dressed as a man or a woman? Blue eyes and sweet smile riding a white horse? Black uniform, steel helmet, armed with assault rifle? Or maybe the rule of law isn’t lost but misplaced. Left under a chair on Capitol Hill, in a display case at the Smithsonian, scouting locations for Clint Eastwood’s next movie.

The confusion is in keeping with the trend of the times that elected Trump to the White House. In hope of clarification, this issue of Lapham’s Quarterly looks to the lessons of history. They are more hopeful than those available to the best of my own knowledge and recollection, which tend to recognize the rule of law as the politically correct term of art for the divine right of money.
.................................
Trump didn’t need briefing papers to refine the message. He embodied it live and in person, an unscripted and overweight canary flown from its gilded cage, telling it like it is when seen from the perch of the haves looking down on the birdseed of the have-nots. Had he time or patience for looking into books instead of mirrors, he could have sourced his wisdom to Supreme Court justice Louis Brandeis, who presented the case for Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal: “We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

Not that it would have occurred to Trump to want both, but he might have been glad to know the Supreme Court had excused him from any further study under the heading of politics. In the world according to Trump—as it was in the worlds according to Ronald Reagan, George Bush elder and younger, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama—the concentration of wealth is the good, the true, and the beautiful. Democracy is for losers."

wouldn't it be grand if one of the fine academics amerikans love so well steered us to vote third party? well, not chomsky, vote clinton, but still. and i'm cooling of so much on howie hawkins as his socialism and peace plans dwindle and this has become his latest missive is (close to): 'every candidate for prez must declare a climate emergency! (whatever that even means) (the 350.org pledge).

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Eagles92's picture

@wendy davis They're superb.

I have to say, taking back power even at the local level seems a fool's errand sometimes; my adopted city is slowly and systematically being ruined by another "progressive" (vomit) neoliberal carpetbagger hell bent on privatizing our most treasured public assets and spaces, and selling out to his developer buddies, and he didn't even win a majority among the 30 percent of eligible voters (myself included) who bothered to show up for the last election. And the City Council is useless; they just go along with whatever he wants.

But that's okay, we have a giant hole in the middle of downtown as a souvenir.

(That said, I am still committed to doing what I can locally -- not just voting, but speaking to others about issues and encouraging them to vote -- and I do hope it's still possible to change things starting in our own back yards).

Thanks for adding your thoughts!

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wendy davis's picture

big al, were by way of saying that it isn't trump who'd brought fascism, anti-constitutional orders, and the unitary executive to the white house, it started long before.

cases in point: his predecessors: Obama And The Risk Of Unchecked Presidential Power, March 6, 2014, constitutioncenter.org

it's quite a tome, but a few excerpts:

When President Obama took office, he declared that his administration would create “an unprecedented level of openness in government.” After beginning his second term in office, President Obama claimed that “this is the most transparent administration in history”. Critics of the Bush administration hoped that Obama would restore the rule of law.

It is difficult to square these assertions and hopes with the Obama administration’s record. The Obama administration has relied on the misconceived state secrets privilege to seek dismissal of cases that alleged serious government misconduct in the areas of extraordinary rendition, warrantless surveillance, and the targeted killing of U.S. citizens. One recurring problem is the administration’s refusal to provide legal justification for unilateral actions it takes.

Advocates of inherent power argue that presidents have the authority to set aside laws that infringe on executive power, as defined by the president. This view, as Fisher points out, cannot be reconciled with constitutional checks and balances or the rule of law. During the Bush administration, claims of inherent power were used to justify plenary presidential power over all decisions involving the use of military force, as well as purported presidential authority to set aside laws prohibiting torture and warrantless surveillance. Since these claims were initially asserted in secret memoranda, there was no opportunity for members of Congress, scholars, or the public to challenge them.

The lesson that should have been learned, and that President Obama claimed to have taken to heart, was that secret law is unacceptable, and inherent power is incompatible with constitutional democracy. Unfortunately, Obama has followed Bush’s pattern in this area, most notably in the area of national security. The Obama administration has claimed the power to kill U.S. citizens abroad who are suspected terrorist leaders without providing any trial or hearing to substantiate the claims. There is an Office of Legal Counsel memo that claimed to identify legal authority for this extraordinary program, but the memo has not been publicly released. A Department of Justice white paper, sometimes described as a summary of the secret OLC memo, suggests – though of course we cannot know for sure without seeing the OLC memo itself—that the administration may be relying in part on inherent power to justify the targeted killing program.

well, you get the gist, and yes, you know all this. just a reminder, including O as the deporter-in-chief. and out-sourcing-torture-in-chief.

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Big Al's picture

@wendy davis kind of like the WMD thing, and they have the power the "constitution" grants them.
It should be a giant issue right about now imo, but as the article you linked shows (2014), times goes by and it's the same old shit.

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wendy davis's picture

@Big Al

which is why so many Ds like to say 'look forward, not backward' (peggy noonan re: obomba>bush) as they don't want their own presidents' powers thwarted. what constitution? the rule of law was never really there.

the framers didn't want the constitution anywhere near 'democracy™'.

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