So it's Us vs. Them now, huh?

OOOOkay.

It appears the spirit of caucus99percent is dead. It took 4 years for the experiment to be done in by factionalism. I always thought that the left/right divide would be the undoing, I guess I was wrong. It was a good try though.

I now fully understand why political sites have hard standing rules.

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mimi's picture

@Raggedy Ann

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9 users have voted.

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8 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Raggedy Ann's picture

@mimi
Look out, folks! As fishtroller indicated - only the shadow knows and it ain't talking! Pleasantry

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6 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

lotlizard's picture

@mimi  
Peter Pan’s shadow gets detached from him and runs off, turning up in the children’s room of a Victorian house in London — Wendy, the oldest of the children, catches it and later sews it back on.

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9 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

..... and after all, we're only ordinary men.....

Wink

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12 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides

Excerpt:

Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried
"Listen son", said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside
"I mean, they're not gonna kill ya
So if you give 'em a quick short, sharp, shock
They won't do it again. Dig it?
I mean he get off lightly, 'cause I would've given him a thrashing
I only hit him once! It was only a difference of opinion, but really
I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh?"
Down (down, down, down, down)
And out (out, out, out, out)
It can't be helped that there's a lot of it about
With (with, with, with), without
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way
It's a busy day
I've got things on my mind
For the want of the price
Of tea and a slice
The old man died

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14 users have voted.

wave monster, I was thinking about this thread. I started picturing people from the DNC and DKos having a party to celebrate C99's demise. I have to say, I really haven't found any other site like this that keeps those 'others' in check and exposes their shenanigans.

So how about WE all agree to spoil their party?

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20 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Unabashed Liberal's picture

Clearly, JtC nailed it when he said,

I don't know for sure myself what may be coming down, that's mostly up to the members here.

I have one suggestion - please read the excerpt below, from one of Joe's excellent meta essays:

Here are some ways that you can help make the site better:

Among our aspirations for this site are to make this a place with very few rules, not because we thrive on chaos, but because we'd like to foster the sort of community that values and respects the site and each other, such that respectful discussions happen between people with diverse views in an organic manner.

Our one current rule is, don't be a dick.

I could be wrong, but, I sincerely believe that this sentiment would preclude behavior which has seemed to proliferate (here) lately--blanket passive-aggressive insults hurled at perceived 'groups' or 'categories' of C99'ers.

This behavior is clearly destructive and/or totally unproductive. Period.

It's my 'opinion' that strong negative feelings should be constructively dealt with, in real time. (Either on, or off the Board.) IOW, not allowed to fester, which may result in an emotional blow-up, later--often, at inappropriate times and/or targets.

Now, in the case of Joe-Smo lawmaker--he/she would be a 'public figure.' Therefore, one can say, "I love him," or, "I despise him." That's one's prerogative.

What is not acceptable, under any circumstance, is issuing threats to life or limb of anyone--including public figures. (JtC has addressed this issue, recently.)

Having said that, my understanding is that all members, posters, commenters should be shown courtesy and respect at all times.

Including, when another member(s) vehemently disagrees with their opinions.

Personally, I'm fully aware that it is I who's totally responsible for my feelings--not some outside force, including another C99 member. (This sentiment obviously does not include such instances, as when one member attacks another, ad hominem.)

At one time, this was a place of 'healing'--for me. And, now, I barely recognize what it's becoming.

But, it doesn't have to be this way.

As JtC said upthread--"that's mostly up to the members here."

I hope we don't let him down.

Here's my 'wish' for this wonderful blogging Community, and Everyone, for that matter,

Give roseMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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19 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Eagles92's picture

@Unabashed Liberal But We Are the World is cringe-worthy.

(I know you mean well with the sentiment it purports to express, but ... ew.)

There's an excellent analysis of it, including the outsized influence Brian Eno had on its production, that I can't put my finger on right now. Will try to find it for anyone who's interested.

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8 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Eagles92

that you don't care for the tune.

Frankly, I luv many of the vocalists--most of them, for that matter.

So, that's one reason I particularly like this song. The lyrics, probably not the most apt--but, not sure I could find one that would be, for a thread war--or, whatever one wants to call recent events. Biggrin

Hey, feel free to post the analysis of the production.

And, thanks for recognizing that I was well-intentioned.

SmileMollie

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7 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Eagles92's picture

@Unabashed Liberal And the artists, many of whom comprised the soundtrack to my formative years.

And, as it turns out, I conflated it with Do They Know It's Christmas -- the truly cringe-worthy song. Still searching for that article I remember, though ...

Have a good Friday!

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5 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

The credit goes to you, JtC, primarily--and Joe--and the many people who contribute here--and even the lurkers, whom I encourage to add their thoughts. Laurel's comment is fine one. She should do this more often.

After exiting the Great Orange Swamp (GOS), I found the congenial home here and cherish the opportunity to be part of it. Several essays by me attest to my appreciation of this site.

c99 shines brightly!

c99: University or Technical School?

A recent blogstorm involving myself may have been one inciting incident, though really, my personal involvement matters not--unless my contributions might lead to more harmony. Certain people require more restraint imposed from external sources than are available to those people, periodically--or permanently. Some people, such as me, are unafraid to voice their opinions. But courtesy and consideration for the viewpoints of others is necessary. So, even alligators pulling at their leashes may be brought to more civil discourse, some others cannot. This is a matter of temperament and world view. In turn, those factors of temperament and world view are irrevocably connected to one's self-image. When Eeyores bray, tune them out. If they continue braying, then perhaps an "intervention" is needed.

In one particular example raised above, the AOC controversy was mentioned. I for one think AOC is a con artist--but this thread is not the place to delve deeply into that subject. Every undertaking, animate and inanimate, has its ups and downs. Hold steady on the downs as the course will reverse. Hold firmly on the ups as the next down turn might throw one completely off the ride.

c99 is still Alive and Well.

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19 users have voted.

referring to and thinking.... well, OK, but what is the definition of 'being a dick' and who gets to decide someone's "being a dick" status? I felt the same way when it was used ad nauseum over at DKos. I was accused of it for saying that the Pope was not a true environmentalist.

There has been a person on here who flames a lot in his essays and comments to the point that I feel it's counterproductive for this site, not to mention highly repetitive. He has supporters, which is fine, but it feels like one or two of them is/are picking up on that angry tone and passing it along to the conversation in a way that gets others agitated too. THIS is what has had me concerned here recently, but it represents such a small portion of the site, it never occurred to me that it meant the whole place was going downhill.

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12 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02

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5 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Fishtroller 02

it's pretty much left up to their discretion as to who is acting like a 'D.' (to be polite)

Of course, it's up to each and every one of us to try our best to use common sense, when determining if our language is civil, and therefore, acceptable by C99 Community standards.

Your second paragraph is indicative of a point I was 'trying' to make earlier--why not address the person that you have a problem with, directly?

The reason I say that is, (IMO) your description could fit more than one member--so, it tells me nothing.

All a statement like that does is make (some) members who've, perhaps, had a past difference with the commenter, wonder, "Is he referring to me?" And, it's totally, counterproductive. Again, IMO.

This 'anonymous' pointing fingers does no one any good, that I can see. I simply can't understand why adults cannot respectfully address their differences. After all, there are always PM's, if members prefer to try to work out differences in private. (sometimes, probably best to do so) Which is not to say that it's not a difficult task, since it can be--but, it's necessary, if we are to maintain a healthy blogging Community. (IMO)

You made a comment elsewhere, which I was going to address (here), but, now can't find it. I'll catch up with you, again, if I run across it.

Mollie

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12 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

smiley7's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
rests within our membership's ability to push back upon unacceptable musings; isn't it?

Sure, admins have authority; but it is "we," members, who collectively hold 'the power" and in our writings and comments set the tone of that which is desired and undesired on any given day; the failure, if one exists, is in ourselves for allowing 'dickish' behavior to fester.

"The fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves," for not standing up to brutes and writers with private agendas; taking advantage of our community's wonderful openness.

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21 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@smiley7

didn't clearly express my thoughts, and, if it sounds as though I'm wanting to shut down dissent and/or disagreement among members, expressed in a civil manner. Please, allow me to take another stab at explaining my stance.

To clarify, I'm not at all against anyone disagreeing with any POV, or, vigorously debating issues.

I love that!

(Doesn't it show? Biggrin When have I ever been a shrinking violet?)

Heck, I'm the one who just reminded folks that 'public figures' are just that--they can be talked about favorably, or unfavorably--so long as there's no threat to limb or life attached to said remarks. (as I understand the DBAD Rule)

Frankly, it seems to me that some members have confused what is appropriate to say about public figures, with what is appropriate to say about other members. (I'll elaborate on that later.)

Now, what I don't care for, is when a member refuses to address various issues--and by extension, other members--directly.

And, as of late, it seems that hurling invectives and insults at broad 'categories' or 'groups' of fellow members has begun to pass as 'enlightened discussion.' (which I think is ridiculous on its face)

To me, it's the very definition of 'being a D.'

Not to confuse what I'm saying, here, with the use of non-inflammatory language and/or generalizations when having a 'policy' discussion.

Example: Not long ago UR, myself and other members were discussing 'patterns of voting' in the South. In that context, a 'generalized' discussion was quite appropriate; but, we weren't doing it with the intention of slandering, bullying, or insulting any groups, or cohorts of people.

Smiley, I'd be interested in hearing 'why' the other mode of communication is preferable, to rational discourse with a big dose of common courtesy.

You know you're one of my fav Buds, so, please don't take offense that I'm asking so directly for some clarification. But, admittedly, I'm confused (if you are saying) that erring on the side of civil discourse, would not be preferable. Give rose

Hey, got another thought or two on this topic, but, for now, gotta take Kaity out.

Later.

PleasantryMollie

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8 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

smiley7's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
BS/trolls in many ways. Let's not burden JtC and Joe or lean on them to do it for us.

Nothing to do with you, my friend, i was adding to your thinking.

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7 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@smiley7 @smiley7

up to Admin and/or each individual member, as to whether or not they care to engage in CM, or 'Community Moderation.'

Hey, I have my hands totally full right now, preparing for Mr M's retirement. So, I'll happily let others hash out this matter. Pleasantry

BTW, if you saw my comment (last weekend) about the medication you were denied, and want me to see if any of the NC Part D plans offer it, please, just let me know the name of the RX.

Obviously, hope all goes well on that front, and, with your medical care, in general. Sounds like you've got some really nice and top notch Docs. Smile

Take care.

Mollie

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7 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

smiley7's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
engaged with the drug denial; important issue.

Thanks for understanding. Not really moderation, i speak of, it's tone, the music, the score collectively set down that needs nourishing; trolls and BSer's do not.

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7 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@smiley7

Hope to hear real soon that your 'appeal'--which I'm guessing you've filed--has come through. Please keep us updated.

My how time flies--we're only several months out from having to slog through those dastardly Part D plans, again.

UGH!!!!!

BiggrinMollie

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6 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@smiley7

a benevolent hierarchy has its virtues, including orderliness.

I would not want to be posting among board vigilantes or what the Pilgrims called "common scolds." Nor do I want to be swarmed by peers, each of whom imagines he or she has a right to pile on.

In my view, this board is the province of the admins. I am the equivalent of their dinner guest. If I don't behave myself, it's their right to call that to my attention and/or throw me out. Same for their private security team, the mods, each of whom was chosen for good reasons. My peers, my fellow dinner guests, who are neither owners nor the owners' chosen security team, however, are different. Not to stran the analogy too much, I'd rather not have food fights sanctioned.

IMO, each of the rest of us gets to try to control only one person, no more. Not having your elegant genteelness and polish, I bristle when a fellow poster tries to control my posting behavior, instead of, or in addition to, his or her own.

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8 users have voted.
smiley7's picture

@HenryAWallace
to gather before wading into this essay, i see, i missed the mark with both you and Mollie, thus far and if with my friends, probably more so to readers who don't know me a little.

So, thinking upon this more, when i was quite satisfied with my thinking above, i now draw with a fresh palette.

Let's not condemn Johnny and Joe to do our work for us. And having said as much, when in future, if i or anyone calls out a troll or bullshit or bad manners; let's at least let that opinion stand without piling on screaming free speech when in fact, most times when BS occurs, its intent ain't free.

Complex, not really, communities set the norms of behavior, or so i've read for decades from astute anthropologists.

This very discussion moves community in some way.

Better to move than stagnate.

Sundance Kid said "Better when i move."

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15 users have voted.

@smiley7

I feel we would be respecting their authority to run this board as they choose and respecting the structures that they have established. If they are okay with having something on the board they run, who would I be to chastise someone for posting it?

As for free speech, that is the obligation of government, not of Jtc or Jim. As a guest in someone else's home, I have no free speech "right" other than the one my host(s) permit me. They are within their rights to draw a line and/or to throw me out. As for me, I have the right to leave if I'd rather not observe their rules.

Should you tell me that my posts are out of line, I would not argue with you. I will not, however, make that promise as to all others here.

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7 users have voted.

@smiley7

a different opinion abut something than opinionated I have does not equal missing the mark.

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6 users have voted.
hecate's picture

when peeder started pff? His idealistic goal a site where everything would be permitted, nothing would be banned. Almost immediately, arrived the trolls. Intent on pushing, pushing, pushing, until they could make him take it back; behave so outre, that he would be forced, to establish some rules. And when he did, they were ecstatic, overcome, in glee. And shortly thereafter, he took the site down. And went off to be a chef.

This is the internet. Where the trolls always win. Always. Always, they have more energy, zeal, drive, than anyone else. And now they are out of the tubes, and into the world. That is why there is this president. For, at root, that is what he is. A troll. The first internet troll president. Troll uber alles.

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25 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@hecate

This is the internet. Where the trolls always win. Always. Always, they have more energy, zeal, drive, than anyone else. And now they are out of the tubes, and into the world. That is why there is this president. For, at root, that is what he is. A troll. The first internet troll president. Troll uber alles.

I'm beginning to think that the writers of the computer game NetHack are correct about trolls in real life as well as on-screen. In NetHack, one must not just kill the trolls, but then one must destroy the corpse thereafter or the troll will rise from the dead to fuck with you again. I think that's what's happening here: just like in the NetHack world, ordinary characters die and stay dead while trolls are eternal.

Gak! Bad

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9 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@hecate
oh, around 2011, 20012 if I remember correctly that I will mot name except for the acronym, witr, that was based on that same concept but for a few simple rules of civility. It was open to everyone.

It didn't take long for the trolls to find it and as a matter of fact they too came from pff that was under new management at the time, different site, different owner, same name. They were very likely the very same players as you allude to. I picked up on it immediately and warned the owner in private that the site had been infiltrated, to no avail. The site's admin who I'll identify as M wanted to, in his words, "kill the snake in the crib" and ban them as they registered but the owner pulled him back.

It didn't take long at all for them to make a complete mockery of the site and drove the members of a once vibrant site away. It only took a short time to make it a ghost town. They were gleeful and proud of their work. They would go back to pff and brag about it. The owner kept it open for a few months afterwards but in all reality it had become a victim, a troll victory.

I watched and learned that lesson very well and I still carry with me.

Our open discussion policy is both an asset and a liability. An asset in the sense that it attracts open minded folks here, and a liability in the sense that it may attract folks that bring a personal agenda to the table.

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19 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

@JtC
I used to hang out (under another name) at The Oil Drum while it was in its heyday. Thousands of posts per day. It was a magnificent community. Many articulate people, free thinkers, petroleum industry folks, academics.
And trolls. Two of them to be exact. They tied the entire site in knots, doing whatever they could to derail conversations. Importantly, the comments on the site were nested to indicate the threads below the top level posts.
The site owner was very reluctant to ban anyone, strongly believing in free speech.
I hated seeing such a terrific site brought low, so I did something about it. I wrote a plugin for FireFox that implemented a blacklist feature on the client side. Users (not the site admins) were able to block the posts by anyone they chose to put on their blacklist, along with ALL responses to the subthread under their posts.
Not very many people used it, not many people used FireFox. I used it myself and loved it. One of the site's major posters tried it and took it to the site owner. He used it to show that HALF THE SITE's TRAFFIC was a result of exactly two trolls and the community's responses to them. He finally banned those two users and the site returned to normal. Happily, they didn't create sock puppet accounts to continue their work.
A blacklist feature works differently than downrating, and differently than banning. A ban is imposed by an admin who gets to decide what I read. Downrating means that other users decide what I get to read (and one of the truly great design decisions for this site was to have only upratings). A blacklist lets an individual user make the decision themselves.
Trolls troll in order to affect the site. They want to disrupt it, change the direction of the discussion, hijack it to their own ends, and always they're the victims of heartless censorship. If nobody listens to them, they give up and go away. It's the only thing that really works.
Of course, a paid troll will continue as long as he is paid, but without readers they don't cause any harm, and without results they may not continue to be paid.
I've only participated in one community that implemented a server side blacklist feature, and I only used it on one guy who liked to get drunk and insult people, never having anything of value to say.
C99P isn't big enough to need this yet, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.

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16 users have voted.

The truth is never as interesting as wild speculation.

@WoodsDweller
or blocking feature has been requested and is possible to implement here, but because of limited server resource isn't really a viable option, and as you say, isn't really needed.

Most trolls are easily spotted, but the very best are quite subtle in their technique, but they will eventually show themselves for what they are.

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15 users have voted.
Eagles92's picture

@JtC And, at least at this point, I feel they're easily identified.

I understand your fears. I want to assure you that most of us are open-minded and won't be intimidated or influenced by the shit-stirring trolls, who are indeed few.

I think that's the singular beauty of what you and Joe have created here. Many of us are refugees from a place (or places) where psy-ops and bullying ruled the day, and we don't want to replicate that particularly unpleasant and abusive atmosphere. For that reason, we can mostly approach all topics and conversations rationally -- with the added bonus that we are willing to welcome ANY contributors who want to join. Some of them may have ulterior motives. But, because we don't exist in an echo chamber, and because we've lived through many attempts at thought control, we're able to separate the wheat from the chaff. And we don't need to discard the chaff, or gang up on it with down votes and shrieking. Because we are who we are, we ignore it and move on.

(I now fear I'm not making sense. 'Cause it's been a tremendously difficult few weeks and I'm heavy into the grape juice, lol). Anyway, JtC, not to worry.

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15 users have voted.
Dawn's Meta's picture

@Eagles92

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4 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

only had an occasional hiccup.

It appears the spirit of caucus99percent is dead.

But, I'll take your word for it because no one knows a baby like its parents.

ETA: BTW, I think the right/left divide is the cause. That it is not a Democrat/Republican divide does not mean its not a right/left divide or an establishment/anti-establishment divide. Just my two cents. Maybe even less.

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6 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace

since all of the Dem Party candidates are Establishment candidates.

(Even Warren and Bernie have official Dem Party Leadership positions. And, if there were any one candidate who'd consider running third party, it would probably be Gravel. Maybe, Gabbard--but, not that likely, IMO.)

I 'think' that the deepest divide is probably between members who are interested in policy/issues versus Dem Party electoral politics.

Now, a year or two ago, I thought it was between Dem Partisans and the true left--or, hard left, as some would say.

Who knows? My hope is that once this election cycle's over, things will return to normal. (At least, until the next election. Smile )

Mollie

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7 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal

establishment candidates. However, my observation is that some posters here are indeed "Blue, no matter what or who." aka LOTE voters. They don't say that in so many words or in that way because the ones on the other side of that particular divide are "vocal," for want of a better descriptor.

I 'think' that the deepest divide is probably between members who are interested in policy/issues versus Dem Party electoral politics.

That particular divide involves you, so you may perceive it as the deepest one. However, I think there is more than one kind of divide among Caucusers. I don't know that any of them is THE deepest divide. However, each and every one of the divides is deep enough to set off someone or other, which, IMO

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7 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace

maybe 'deepest' divide was a poor choice of words for issue-oriented advocacy. Still, I do believe that it's a significant divide.

[Edited: deleted 'however'; added introductory phrase]

For a little bit of background, a couple of issues that propelled (some in) our breakaway Google Group were two topics--interest in issue-oriented advocacy (and not just the constant drumbeat of electoral politics that DKos was known for), and, not having to feel pressured into LOTE thinking/voting--as was the 'house rule' at DKos. Certainly, there were other issues, as well.

Anyhoo, to the best of my recollection, for CStMS (who formed the GG) it was 'climate change.' For me, as usual/always, it was trying to stop a 'Grand Bargain,' or, so-called entitlement reform.

Clearly, this blog is a different kind of animal, with different rules.

Most importantly, it is 'open to all.'

Which is one of many reasons that I'm so thankful that JtC has given us C99!

Give roseMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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8 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

lotlizard's picture

@Unabashed Liberal  
The first phase was when I noticed that every time some contributors, for instance OPOL or Buhdydharma, posted something I liked, the same crew of disrupters would barge in at the top of the comments and crap on it, while being backed up by site management in an apparent and flagrant contradiction of the site’s own rules.

The second phase was when, partly in response to the above problem, someone suggested the site institute “caucus” posts, where a special rule would come into play that commenters must accept the issue focus and certain premises defined by the OP (original poster). That is, “trolling” against the OP’s framing and purposes would not be allowed, creating a “safe space” for discussion of a specific proposal or issue. Such protection had already been afforded to, for example, the so-called IGTNT or “I Got The News Today” posts mourning fallen veterans, the just-for-fun posts about pets and other animals, and posts showcasing the Obama White House photo op of the week. Site management crapped on this suggestion.

The third phase began when site management turned right around and allowed pro-Hillary posts to enjoy the same “safe space” rule they had just denied for the proposed “caucus” posts in phase two. This phase culminated in the Ides of March decree, crowning Hillary as the winner and giving the site owner’s imprimatur to bullying behavior crapping on anyone who dared to voice further criticism of Her or continued support for Bernie.

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4 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@lotlizard

to the discussion.

Knowing a bit of the background regarding why some of the predecessors (Groups and Boards) of C99 were formed, may shed a bit of light on the mindset or thinking of some of the so-called old-timers. (Not that it was, or is, a monolithic group of folks.)

Have a good one.

PleasantryMollie

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0 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

travelerxxx's picture

My take on the recent Squirrel post from JtC (now vanished into the ether) was that JtC was the squirrel. I felt the comments missed that. If just a chuckle was intended to be provoked, there were millions of other memes which he could have posted.

On first consideration of that posted squirrel meme, I made an assumption that some recent thinly-veiled threats of violence and/or personal harm were the issue. As owner of the site, JtC (and maybe even joe shikspack - I don't know) can be held to some form of liability for what is posted. Certainly, the site can be blacklisted by the likes of Google. JtC mentioned in a previous plea that he doesn't really need "the alphabets" knocking on his door. He's right, and as members of this site we could all be dragged in as accomplices of a sort. None of us need that, nor is it advancing the plight of the 99%.

Now, I'm considering that there's more to it than what I just mentioned. Evidently, a lot more.

It appears the spirit of caucus99percent is dead.

Man, it hurts to read that. It really hurts coming from JtC.

What is this "spirit of caucus99percent?" I believe it's put rather simply in these words from the C99 Frequently Asked Questions page:

Like the Occupy movement from which the name of this site derives (many of the early members of the site were active members and supporters of Occupy) we are open to people with all kinds of different ideas about how to make the world a better place. The folks already here represent a broad range of left-leaning to far-left orientations.

Further, and JtC has mentioned this over and over again:

C99 is not a partisan site. This site does not endorse any candidate or ask that anyone support a candidate or party.

There are few rules, but the subject is broached:

We are disinclined to create a lot of rules, not because we thrive on chaos, but because we'd like to foster the sort of community that values and respects the site and each other, such that respectful discussions happen between people with diverse views in an organic manner.

We have only one universal, all-weather, one size fits all, batteries not required rule, "don't be an ass." (DBAA)

It's a little blunt, but it seems the sort of thing that just about everyone understands intuitively.

The coin of the realm here is kindness to others and articulate discussion of your point of view in a way that respects other people's ideas. Discussions that are characterized by the coherent exposition of evidence, facts, logic and reason, which honor the bonds of friendship that hold us together, are what this community thrives on.

And now, read that last part once again, as I believe it describes the spirit of caucus99percent:

The coin of the realm here is kindness to others and articulate discussion of your point of view in a way that respects other people's ideas. Discussions that are characterized by the coherent exposition of evidence, facts, logic and reason, which honor the bonds of friendship that hold us together, are what this community thrives on.

We are the 99%. The person who would re-write the constitution, the lady who would vote for Warren, the man who believes there is virtue in Trump, the folks who would shut down immigration, those who would open borders wide, the lady who would push Bolton off a cliff, the man who doesn't know where his next meal may come from, those who are not at all certain they will have a home tomorrow, those of us who are slowly dying from lack of affordable medical attention -- we are all part of the 99%. None of them are our enemies, although we may disagree. We are the 99%.

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26 users have voted.

@travelerxxx
that is the essence, you nailed it traveler.

One correction though: Joe penned that FAQ. If only I could be so eloquent as he.

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18 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@travelerxxx

Succinct and to the point. Especially...

None of them are our enemies, although we may disagree. We are the 99%.

Yup!

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12 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@travelerxxx

"spitballs" at other boards.

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4 users have voted.

This site is a great place for freethinkers. I was just thinking the other day that caucus99percent is heating up in a good way for the 2020 elections. There seems to be more participants (and all the good ones from gos) and varied opinions.

Thank you everybody!

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16 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

...you see the glass as 3/4 full, and I must admit to my polyannish POV. I operate on the power of positive vibes. As a result I (perhaps mistakenly) see our c99 community as a family....complete with lefty uncles, curmudgeons, crazy cousins, and annoying aunts. Sometimes the family can get into a kerfluffle, but mostly it flows along with a familial friendly relationship.

Over the last few years as the devastating effects of climate collapse have become increasingly obvious, the normal political disagreements seem relatively trivial to me. The complete corporate coup has co-opted my youthful thoughts of political solutions. So many times after reading an essay I think that people are chasing their tails worry about this issue. However instead of weighing in, I choose a course of silence. Why offend someone to no purpose? Other than the OT's where I often chitchat, I don't comment unless I feel I have something of value to offer.

So, I'm trying to say that I love our little community. I think of you as family with all the subtleties that involves. I hope those of you who have gotten to know me through c99 think I add that family feel to our site. Onward my friends. Be not discouraged as we face the future because the supportive friendships we foster here will buoy our spirits and hearts.

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15 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

the comment thread would look NOTHING like this one does.

Wow, I'm happy!

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10 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Dawn's Meta's picture

Ditto Lookout's comments and so many others here.

JtC, this site is your and Joe's baby. I agree with the dinner party metaphor. I have been disappointed when various guests have either chosen to leave or have been banned. Some have been good writers who somehow went sideways. It's been my nature all my life to keep the 'family' together. so I miss now silent voices.

I enjoy quirky writers as well as those who share their thinking on a subject and the well-researched incredibly intense posts some are willing to create and watch what happens. I also enjoy the deliberate involvement of voices in opposition to most members, as I want to see what others are thinking and why. I would never encourage someone who is say conservative to leave, unless they are simply trolling. But if it helps me see what is thought and hopefully, why, all is good.

If someone consistently throws bombs in threads, especially if said bombs might cause unwanted attention, then hey, we want the village to continue.

Sometimes what I see happening, is that a comment written so wryly and dryly it sails over/under most of our heads, it can be easy to take offense. Tentatively, I asked one writer if what I saw was snark. I got a straight answer..."no". So I quit the thread.

Recently, offense was taken in one thread, and very harsh things were said. It may have been a misunderstanding. Maybe a few questions thrown in would have solved the problem. Several peacemakers, which I note often, stepped in and tried to get things to quiet down.

Maybe more often any of us (me included) could say, ok is this what you meant?

But offense given purposely, must be met with restraint if we are going to help keep this village together.

Out here in the hinterlands of France, this is one place I can visit, where I understand most of the culture, the language and can express my opinions. It means the world to me.

I am hoping given the platform and structure JtC has created, that the diner guests and villagers can help keep things from derailing and unravelling.

Just blew up my second Mac Mini and have just now fully come back. It died a slow lingering death, which really restricted my activities. Not to mention a stone house we are having to rebuild---ack!

Just dipping my oar in, and hoping that there are not terrible things I don't understand, things sailing by and all.

JtC, bonne courage, et, bonne village. From a grateful guest.

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9 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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Big Al's picture

Congrats.

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10 users have voted.
Eagles92's picture

@Big Al ::heart emoji::

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4 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@Big Al

Looks like us won. Congrats.

You must try some of my purple berries!

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5 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

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