Let's Give Immigrants (of any type - legal, illegal)
from Mexico and further south what they really want. This happened in my state of Colorado.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-protestors-rip-down-american-flag-at...
I propose that we return to Mexico all the southwestern and western states that they want. No, I'm not pulling a Jonathan Smith Swift- A Modest Proposal. I am serious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)
Then maybe everyone would be happy and we could quit arguing about immigrants, illegal immigrants, or whatever immigrants.
I'm curious. If we did this, would you stay in your state or move to the new reconfigured US? I would move; anybody whose seen my posts here know that I love and revere the Constitution, and I wouldn't want to live under Mexico's laws.
IMO, I believe this is where some chunk of the US will eventually end up anyway.
Gotta go grocery shopping before the crowds get going.
Comments
Just so we're clear...
Reconquista II: Immigrant Boogaloo isn't actually a real movement and never will be.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I assume you think the essay
Myself, I think we are headed for civil war. Probably not in my lifetime (I'll live maybe 10 or 20 more years).
Where do you think this is all headed? Do you have an honest opinion on it?
dfarrah
Oh, I'd say well within
As for lifespan or lifetime, not to worry. We all come back again (nearly all of you anyway), many times, until we evolve sufficiently and go on to the next level. That's what my spiritual betters tell me anyway, and that works for me. And we might be coming back sooner than normal, what with all the human procreation proceeding apace and the immediate need for them to be energized with the human spirit.
And will Donnie Jr be in office as preznut when we come back? Or only presiding over a one-fifth, wing nut portion of the former United States?
Do we come back quickly,
And if the earth is going through another mass extinction, I guess we'll have to wait (assuming our new whatever sprouts back on the earth and not elsewhere).
dfarrah
Not to worry --
As for the sixth extinction, an upcoming third world war is likely to get to most of us well before that. Have you noticed how often we blame Russia for everything?
Hmmmm, according to
Or maybe it was longer. I can't recall.
But who really knows time?
dfarrah
Well if the Yoga said
No offense of course to the late Yoga, who I'm sure was a wonderful, spiritual person (he was slightly ahead of my time).
They're peacefully protesting ICE detentions.
They're not trying to conquer Colorado for the Mexican government.
(I can't believe I even have to explain that.)
We're headed for another election where FOX News is going to come up with crazier and crazier ways to scare the bejezus out of Trump's base about evil brown people invasions.
Honestly, I feel the same way about immigrant bashing Fox watchers as I do about Russia bashing MSNBC watchers: your proud acceptance and promotion of patently ridiculous ideas is a lot more scary than anything you claim to be afraid of.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Me neither, but thanks for doing so NHK
The irony, imo, is that Colorado isn't even in the South, but 'let's give the South to Mexico'. This happened in Colorado, not the South. And, Central America is not Mexico. Central American refugees are not Mexicans. Some people here don't understand that or the fact that the imaginary Mason Dixon line is not a magical line where everything/everyone south of it is shit, and everything/everyone north of it is angelic purity. Wtf?
Koolaid, man. Some here must have a subscription delivery service for the shit.
Who said anything about
Colorado used to be a part of Mexico. And that is no secret here in Colorado.
dfarrah
Do you hate them because they're pieces of you?
Your buddy, the site mod from Michigan, said the South and Texas. You said the Southwest and West. Either way, how about you go live in another country? Win, win!
You also said in a comment that Mexicans are descendents of Africa. Gonna need a citation on that.
It's obvious, your pride was hurt by the protest.
These refugees are created due to our ("our" as in the real US, including the icky parts you don't like), government's policies which cause direct output.
Input --> Output.
We made this.
We need to fix it.
I wonder, do you hate them, because they're pieces of you?
.
[video:https://youtu.be/AsRlgxJ7qO4]
Good god.
Texas used to be part of Mexico, as did Colorado.
And you can poke around anywhere and find the heritage of people in different countries (and even histories of countries, believe it or not).
It appears that no one posting here (maybe one or two) is aware of the resentment that Hispanics have over this issue.
Really, how can people be so unaware? Is there nothing but white people on this site?
dfarrah
I said it, and it had absolutely nothing to do with
your essay or the Mexican flag they flew over the detention center. If the flag is what your essay was about, I totally missed it. Deju just likes to leap to assumptions in a single bound. Her erroneous barbs are faster than a speeding bullet. S/he is such a sweetheart.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
My essay wasn't
dfarrah
It's more complicated than that
Mexico qua Mexico wasn't even a thing until they got their independence from the Spanish - which was long after the Spanish had acquired Colorado from the French and then handed it back to them as part of the Louisiana Territory which Jefferson then purchased from France.
Nobody did much with Colorado or areas north of it until after Lewis & Clark mapped out the territory (1804-1806). There were names on maps, but no boots on the ground - mostly just moccasins.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
more troublesome facts interfering with any
attempt to take a blase and childish view of the situation.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I suggested a solution.
dfarrah
really, REALLY good at that
TheOtherMaven is really, really good at that!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Believe it or
dfarrah
Well then,
This really has nothing to do with fox news; it's just a matter of listening to people and hearing what they are saying.
AO big mouth has said that white people took the US from (I don't recall who exactly). I don't recall the exact quote. One of my council persons said (a few years ago) she resents the fact that there are not more people who "look like her" on council on a mixed race council. One of the Hispanic Congressmen last night was challenging the former head of ICE, asserting something to the effect that the former ICE head had no knowledge of anyone who didn't "look like him."
First of all, people need to say what they mean. These representatives should have just said 'white people' and be done with it, because that is exactly what they meant.
Bottom line? It is racism whether people want to admit it or not. While progressives enjoy believing that it's all white racism against others, it isn't.
Mexico has a history of racism (and the concomitant layers of people that were considered better than others) just like any other people/country have/has had, and to pretend otherwise is ignorant.
And to pretend that non-whites and white progressives aren't stoking anti-white racism is ignorant. One can see clip after clip of people (of all races) dissing Biden and Bernie for being white (and old and male).
And shoving it under the rug won't help, either.
dfarrah
Right...
because I'm sure all of Santa Anna's great great great great great great great grandchildren are still really really upset.
So wait, if the Mexicans are the new Spanish Reconquistadors, does that make the US government the Moors, who, as I'm sure you know, were Muslim?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Close your ears then,
dfarrah
And we all know it
dfarrah
OT
Re: Santa Anna
I had the best History instructor ever (once), and his rendition of Sam Houston vs Santa Anna at San Jacinto was phenomenal. Not the battle itself, but leading up to it. The morale. The positioning and timing, not to mention the breaking of traditional war rules, which sounds so stupid, but it was a thing. Like a movie. The guy did that the whole semester and his assigned books were badass too.
Did you say peaceful?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/armed-man-reportedly-shot-after-throwing-ince...
dfarrah
This didn't happen at the Colorado protest
It happened in Washington state and even the police chief said that the people were peaceful at the protest in Colorado and he thanked them for it so I don't know why you tried to connect it to the Colorado one. The other guy wasn't even at a protest. He attacked the building and tried to do something to propane tanks.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Did I say
dfarrah
You alluded to it
Did you say peaceful?
The protest in Colorado was peaceful and yet you threw in something totally unrelated to make some type of point.
Have I ever given you the impression that I support violence or violent acts of any type? In case it isn't clear I do not. And you are personally attacking people here which it the definition of being a dick which it the one rule here that we always enforce.
I have not idea what you essay is about as I said earlier. You post about people removing the American flag and then said that lots of people want to give Mexico back it's original lands. Then in other comments you add lots of additional stuff.
So please clarify what your original point was when you posted this and maybe I can follow along.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
The point
While we argue endlessly about this idiocy we play right in to the goals of our owners. Divide and conquer. Yay! USA USA USA!!!!
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Somehow I don't find
But some people did something, right?
dfarrah
I have a better idea...
Let's build a wall, curtain off the south and throw Texas in for good measure. We can offer it all to Mexico, but I doubt they will take it. This country is too big or too small for all of us.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Mexico or Mexicans
Why wouldn't any country want this part of the US? It's got some good oil land and good agriculture and coastal areas.
dfarrah
Throwing in TX
TX is plenty enough to offer. Have you ever been there or driven it? The approx halfway point of a drive from L.A. to Houston is in El Paso ferchrissakes. And getting to Houston, if you ever do, still leaves you many miles away from the eastern border.
To make up for that loss, if it can be called such, and avoid an odd number of states (no one likes odd numbers -- makes folks feel uneasy, a lacking-something feeling ..), I propose we combine the two Dakotas into one. They are both about the same deal anyway, and SD has been rather lousy indeed since the forced departure of home grown George McGovern, ca 1980. Most people probably won't even notice we've dropped one Dakota, or won't care.
Born and raised in Corpus Christi, Tx.
I don't think Texas will be enough; they want it all back to the old borders.
dfarrah
Tell 'em TX is big
Tell 'em they can also have, as part of the deal, both Bush Presidential Libraries, no additional charge.
As a final inducement, tell 'em we will also throw in the LBJ Library and Ranch. No one I know has ever been there or cares to.
OMG.
Are you dissing LBJ? Oh, the me-too movement needs to get around to burning his library to the ground.
Yeah, Texas won its independence from Mexico.
dfarrah
"Dissing" is one
And yeah, he was in some ways a proto Donald Trump -- not exactly book-larned, and a bit of a bully and crude P-grabber. And a very frequent grabber, apparently. Even in front of his wife, longsuffering Lady Bird. Political power has its perks.
But I didn't have any of that in mind with my Free Presidential Libarries comment above.
From wiki -
Damn those white guys.
dfarrah
Too long and too o/t
And no, I don't do American Heritage-approved, whitewashed wiki-type history.
So I stand firmly behind my offer: the two Bush libraries and I'll throw in Lyin' Lyndon's. And in Mexican hands, we actually stand a better chance of getting an honest history of these dismal presidents than what our establishment-friendly historians have so far brought forth.
Well, I can't negotiate away
dfarrah
You do know that
And the first Bush did support civil rights.
dfarrah
Yeah, aware that
May I disagree? I will anyway
pictures
also show Q banging Jabba the Hutt out back the minstrel show.
Thanks (?) for your confused analogy
For you, I present an appropriate metaphor for what appears to be your reality.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjwWjx7Cw8I]
GHWB
is also the only American over the age of 6 in November 1963 who claimed he couldn't remember where he was when Kennedy was shot.
Definitely a weasel and worse.
dfarrah
Earlier yes, briefly.
I'm thinking Willie Horton. And Uncle Clarence Thomas.
Wow, you're going
Well, at least Lee Atwater was sorry for what he did (so the story goes)
dfarrah
George Herbert Walker Bush, another groper
Are people in the
dfarrah
People in the Dakotas,
Well, I definitely
One of the Dakotas has that state bank that is very economically helpful for the state.
dfarrah
It's gonna be tough
I would normally at this point advise to study up in the sciences and get a job in Antarctica, but as we know even that is melting. And you would be running into a lot of stressed out penguins.
Don't they have high-elevation places in CO to live -- 8-9,000 feet up? Recommend that, make sure your a/c is tuned up, and all your vital papers in order.
Michigan's upper peninsula wants to secede from
the bottom peninsula and become its own state. From the SE corner of the state to the tippy top of the NW corner of the UP is roughly 700 miles. The top and bottom are like night and day. Even 700 miles is too small for the both of us.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
shoulda been part of wisconsin anyway.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
We certainly don't need it.
Pretty country but all trees and snow up the behind. SE Michigan actually hit the 80s. OMG, we're dying. Northern lower is having highs of 69 degrees in the middle of July. We have the stupid furnace on when we go up there. The weather is nuts. No place left to run. No place to hide.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Meteor Blades once published a map here.
It was a real map of how the tribes apportioned the land that is now the US. I looked, but I couldn't find anything I would trust to be real. I would trust what MB posted here, but it would take a lot of digging to find it. There are a ton of phonies on the internet.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Here is MB's map.
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/780882/indian_tribes....
Once I found him in our member directory, it was easy. He was here a short while and didn't comment much.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Cool. thx. n/t
dfarrah
So the Mexicans
The current demographics favor the people from Mexico and south of Mexico.
dfarrah
Where are you getting your information about people
wanting to give states back to Mexico? You quote your co worker, but is there a movement to do that?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
where it came from
From the exact same place (s)he got the idea that someone was paying the Ibero-American immigrants to come here.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Somebody
I keep hearing how poor and desperate these people are. Please explain where they got the provisions/means for the long journey to the US. All those nice backpacks, provisions, and shoes made for walking cost money.
So which is it? You can't have it both ways. They just happened to have the $$ to buy the provisions and maybe weren't so poor and desperate after all, or were they so poor and destitute that someone helped them along?
dfarrah
You are the one that keeps saying that people are being funded
to come here and in a previous essay thanatokephaloides asked you to provide a link to how you know that. So can you do that or not? Or is it just your opinion that people are being funded?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
direct evidence required
Direct evidence, please. Name these supposed funders. Explain to us (again, with direct evidence) their motives in funding such a dangerous, often deadly, and nearly always futile undertaking such as the attempt to smuggle themselves into the United States of America is.
NO circumstantial bullshit, please. The possessions, etc., of those making the journey do not count as evidence of any kind, whether you like it or not. Among other far more reasonable explanations, which can more easily account for some of the immigrants having a tiny bit more than one pair of pants and a T-shirt, is that they had jobs which supported them in their home countries until USA regime change meddling in Ibero-America ruined those nations' economies and with it, the jobs which once supported them at home. Thus, I can indeed "have it both ways"; it is both possible and reasonable that families who have a few minor possessions (extra changes of clothes, a tent, etc.) are, nonetheless, driven to our southern border by economic desperation. Economic desperation of the sole and exclusive making of the USA's 1%, I might add.
Therefore, direct evidence of your claim of external funding really is required. Please either provide it now, by answering my questions as I have asked them, or admit publically that you pulled that whole thing out of "You Know Where". One or the other, please, now.
Thank you.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
What a tacky comment
Tacky is in the eye of the beholder.
I do think the country should be split up. Too big. Impossible to govern.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
So, let me tell you about Michiganders
Michiganders came to my neighboring county with travel trailers. They got a mailing address. They stay here 2 or 3 days a year at a park in Polk County. Escapees. And they do not pay state income taxes in Michigan because they are "Texans", we do not have state income taxes here. They do not know anybody here, do not give a damn about anything here, and they are all Republicans, and dominate local politics. There are thousands of Escapees. They voted in a district judge who had been the 4th Assistant down the line prosecutor in that county, who was assigned to prosecute traffic tickets.
Michigan has done their part to fuck up Texas.
The judge on the case to determine their voting legitimacy was Judge Sam Bournias.
Slam Texas for death penalty, for our Big Oil, but when you slam us for being Red, you bear some blame. We swung Red in a huge district because of state income tax avoiders from Michigan.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Michigan ruins Texas
It's the same here in Colorado.
Rich, conservative Californicators come here, drive shelter prices through the roof by buying real estate, and drag our Overton Window rightward. Meanwhile, in Summit County, the County Government has to cut ranchers slack on property taxes in order to keep them ranching while tax dollars are spent maintaining a "workerstan" so the ski resorts in Vail don't have to pay the lowest two-thirds of their workers enough to live in the same city that they work in.
Yuk.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
You do know that
The turn to blue was fairly recent.
dfarrah
Colorado red/blue
I was here when Republican John Love was governor; so yes, I did know that.
Since today's Dems are GOPpers for all practical intents and purposes (there's little or no daylight between the policies of John Hickenlooper and his predecessor John Love), the Overton Window hasn't moved much, and those of us who need ubiquitous strong unions and a stable, strong market for non-college labor are just as fucked under the latter as the former.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Damn snow birds.
I think they do the same thing to Florida and AZ, but I think they actually winter there. Didn't know about Texas, but hey no taxes, it's the irresistible mating call of the MAGAs.
My understanding is that Michiganders have to declare a primary residence, which means you have to live there a minimum of six months out of the year. It is where they then pay taxes and vote. The people who do this are probably tax voiding, don't tread on me Republicans. It is amazing how many of them we actually have.
When Bubba destroyed manufacturing, he destroyed the deep dark blue this state used to be. Having said that, blue is as bad as red nowadays. I am proposing that we split up people by political and religious preference and put them in their own regions of the US and declare them their own country.
I think we need three countries: 1) neocon/evangelical = the south + Texas, 2) mealy-mouth trickle-down neolibs/neocons = SF/NY, 3) everybody else every thing is left. I could probably be talked into dividing 3 up into 4 or 5. Since most of the red hats and Christian jihadists already live in the south and Texas, I figure we might as well start there. Or, I would settle for my own deserted island around Tahiti.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
And people
dfarrah
Texas has been
dfarrah
It was blue until the 80's.
The Michiganders do not know who they are voting for, or exactly what the elected position actually entails. They have no interaction with the community, and vote absentee.
Since everybody running is an R, there are primaries. It would be helpful if the one polling place that determines everything from animal control to State Representative could determine which R was the better candidate at primary.
I resent the outsized influence a bunch of tax cheats do to a community that just happened to have a cheap RV park. They are also hurting Michigan.
It isn't a turf war. It is a tax evasion scheme that has been legally sanctioned. I am glad the right wing nut jobs do not stick around more than a few days before they drive away. We have enough of those living here full time.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Red democrats.
dfarrah
that's
very interesting. Except that more migrants are coming from Central America, than from Mexico; and more migrants are Asian, than Hispanic. In further confusions, your Reconquista link concerns the Iberian Peninsula. Are you also giving that to Mexico?
also,
"Jonathan Smith" did not write A Modest Proposal. That was Jonathan Swift. With "Jonathan Smith," I think you are conflating the actor Jonathan Harris, with the character he portrayed, Dr. Zachary Smith, the famous NAMBLA man lost in space. His modest proposal was that he, young Will Robinson, and the robot, should get jiggy in a threeway.
Oh Hecate
There you go again with the irrepressible lols
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
oh, you are a naughty thing.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Oh, the pain, the pain!
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
Well, I did think about that,
So, the claims are rather mixed; I figure once the split occurs, they can figure it out amongst themselves.
dfarrah
We all descended from Africans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Wells
When the choice boiled down to becoming
A hostage to the Pavlovian measures the media employs on behalf of their paymasters, I decided to give away my television, stay away from social media trigger porn, and spend more time in my neighborhood in a spirit of goodwill, adding value to my life, and nurturing my soul.
Surprisingly, I am a happier person.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
you think so, but really, you'd be happier if you
had more stuff than you knew what to do with, and yet wanted more stuff still.
i know this, because i watched a lot of TV when i was younger, and the message was clear.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Yeah, as far as the advertising goes, true
More stuff = happiness
But I was referring to the mind altering state that comes from outrage du jour porn running 24/7 on the teevee masquerading as information where you become a person who is incapable of a logical and reasoned argument.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
well, right now my outrage du jour is that
it's 92 fuckin degrees out there, and i can't function in that kind of heat.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Triple digits forecasted here tomorrow
will have to water the garden at the butt crack of dawn and then bathe my tomato plants and azaleas when the sun goes down.
Btw, I finished Outlander this morning. The Native American storyline was pretty dark, but didn't feel as thrown together and weird for no earthly narrative reason as the Caribbean voodoo did in season three. I think at this point I just want Claire and Jamie to live happily every after in their rustically lovely cabin they built together in Blue Ridge mountains, but I feel like they are going to have to pick up a musket again to fight in the Revolutionary War. Sigh.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Haven't watched it yet. Will take a look.
We watched the Reverent last night. Never heard so much grunting and panting in a movie in my life.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
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