The problem with Bernie Sanders is that he has the exact same message he had four years ago.
Submitted by bondibox on Sat, 06/29/2019 - 7:06pm
This quote comes from none other than Markos Moulitsas (surprising no one).
WATCH: Daily Kos Founder Markos Moulitsas tell Chuck why Bernie Sanders did not stand out in the debates. #MTPDaily@markos: “The problem with Bernie Sanders is that he has the exact same message he had four years ago.” pic.twitter.com/pRYoipp1f5
— Meet the Press (@MeetThePress) June 28, 2019
Bernie's Response?
My skeptics often accuse me of being boring, of hammering the same themes. They’re probably right. It's never made sense to me that a few people have incredible wealth and power while most have none.
Should we ever achieve justice, I promise I’ll write some new speeches.
— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) June 29, 2019
Some call it a bug, I call it a feature.
Comments
Markos DEMANDS a flip flop
to show one has EVOLVED and a lifetime of confirmed beliefs is NOT POLITICALLY VIABLE.
WHEREAS, Pelosi got her roses.
She is the exemplar. She blows in the wind, and out both ends, and gets roses and RESPECT.
Latvia and Lithuania are beginning to appeal to me for retirement locales.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Estonia
Why not Estonia, sniff?
/s
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
They are in hate Russia mode.
Like, they want Russians to die.
Estonia suffered more under Stalin than Latvia and Lithuania, from what I could tell on my brief visit.
Estonia was crawling with American soldiers, as was Poland.
There is this outdoor stadium in Estonia. And at a time when Stalin would kill their asses for passing along Estonian history, culture, or language to their children, an Estonian went to Russia, got schooled on composition, and his chorale was debuted at that place, with Stalin's generals on the front row, and it was a major turning point in Estonia's history.
I got to hear the music on the tour bus as we headed to the next country.
I think is important to me, for me, to bear witness to these things.
No, I can't change what happened. No, I can't make it right.
But I did go there, and I did learn, and I did bear witness, and I will help if I can.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
the Baltic triad
Estonia:
Wow! Lots of history there! Thank you!
My snarky message was asking why you were contemplating Latvia and Lithuania as retirement locales, but didn't mention Estonia.
Yes, the Three Balts are in "fuck Russia" mode. But all three of them are, equally so and with equal valid cause. Hence, my question.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Honestly can't remember
if was Latvia or Lithuania where I saw Putin tee shirts.
The trip began in Estonia, ended in Poland. The beer top I just popped was with an Estonian magnet with bottle top capacity! lol!
I cannot remember, but it seemed one or the other of those countries was at least all for Putin and Russia.
They are so tiny, a bus goes through them in a day. They are so beautiful, so important as any people are, and anyone here who wants to go there, I can refer you to a tour company that makes this incredible experience very affordable.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
While we talk smack about the UkraIne, or Russia, or China,
who has actually been there?
Me.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
It's not the Ukraine that I have a problem with.
Just some of their politicians. And yeah, I'll keep badmouthing people like Tyahnybok.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I meant that the US government
interfered with the Ukraine and truly goofed up that country. Now that the place is a Neo-Nazi mess, only a few people seem to notice.
Give 'em hell.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
You're only a Nazi if Twitter says you are.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And obviously, I'm in total agreement with you.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
the bad apple 1%
Like with any other nation, it's the 1% in positions of power who need to go.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Yep.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Daily what? I don’t read that nonsense. It’s a waste of
electrons and my time.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I never go there.
Could care less what CIA Markos spouts off.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Check.
Always wondered about his past interest in joining the Spooks. Allegedly that didn't happen, but that also makes for a good cover story to send him out as one of theirs to become a reliable, loyal left gate-keeper.
And I would never trust someone who is made so welcome at politically-safe-for corporations' interests MTP. A sign, typically, that the lefty in question isn't really much of one, and can be relied on not to rock the establishment boat.
I used to read the headline of diaries to get the DNC messaging
Not much anymore. They are so predictable I can predict the diaries ahead of time just by watching mainstream media.
how do you know it's nonsense, if you don't read that?
Nothing for Ungood, but I still think that one has to read the original texts or watch original, unedited photo and video material in order to judge them and build one's own opinion.
I haven't gone to TOP for a long time, but more because I thought, I didn't need or have to. I just saw though that I still can learn from some of the writers over there, something that I didn't get in detail somewhere else.
I wished I could read French newspapers, but my French is not good enough for that. I read German papers from all ideological corners. It hasn't hurt.
I do understand that reading too much is having an effect. People get too depressed and/or too angry, which is both dangerous. That's why I could agree with you that reading TOP would be a waste of otherwise good time that could be used to do something more uplifting.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Faith can be permanently broken.
I wouldn't, for example, keep going back to see if Karl Rove were telling the truth today.
Life is too short to spend on people who have repeatedly lied for years.
That's assuming, of course, that the reader doesn't want to go back.
There is no moral judgement to be passed on people for reading it or not, but it's certainly understandable if people don't keep checking to see if a corrupt liar has become truthful.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I agree with you on this one paragraph
but one has to know that someone is a corrupt liar. For outsiders and just casual readers of blogs from outside the US, I too remember some I would never check out again, but that refers to individual people and not to the whole entity of a blog.
So many people here make sure to say that they would never read anything at TOP again, so it goes against the blog and not individual authors. Which I think might not fair to some individual authors at TOP. Markos imho was never a writer or author of any significance, but others are.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I've seen what Markos does to dissident voices.
And what he allows to be done by people like Denise Oliver Velez.
Yes, there may be some good people with good thoughts who still post there, who have not been purged or pressured into conformity, maybe because they simply haven't written any diaries that attracted much notice.
Personally, I have no interest in searching through his execrable site to find them. Those who do, have every right to keep going there. I've got no moral judgement of either choice. It's just how you choose to spend your heartbeats.
"I have only so long to live--so many books to read, so many ironies to contemplate, so many meals to eat."
Nero Wolfe, Too Many Cooks
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
yes, I do remember a bit about those ...
may be I could just keep my distance a little bit easier, because I am/was far enough away (in a way). Nothing for Ungood. I don't do racism, ID or gender discussions or thingies in public. Futile. I even mix up names of politicians. Never will write essays and almost never have aside from some jokey ones.
https://www.euronews.com/live
When I taught politics . . .
I felt an obligation to read all sides regularly. Now retired, I am freed from this burden. I still read popular conservatives, though with less regularity. If you want to win an argument it's important to understand what the opposition is saying. Their strategy may not have changed in a century and a half, but their tactics vary quite regularly.
He's on Twitter, so is MtP.
You don't need to go there to know when Kos makes a complete ass of himself.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Does the day end in "y?"
Then rest assured, Moosetits has made an ass of himself.
Kos sounds like a republican concern troll.
The same crowd that lost to Trump and before that for about 10 years almost killed off the democratic party are like important voices to listen to.
Ugh!
Wasn't Kos a Henry Hyde-type Republican before he was a "Progressive"? Naturally he would expect Bernie to change his fundamental message after 4 years. I don't know who is more full if it: Chuck Todd or Kos.
John Hickenlooper's face
..... takes up the first second of this video. While I have my differences with Governor John (he opposed cannabis legalization, which I advocate), he does not deserve the implied comparison with Markos Moulitsas that NBC set him up for there. After all, Hickenlooper didn't come out one fine morning and declare that I was no longer a Coloradoan because I wasn't willing to support Her Heinous for President in 2016.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Hick is a rethug
who says things that his advisers say will get him votes in Boulder.
Quite tiring, that. Fuck him and the suds he rode in on.
Governor Hickenloopy
Agree that it's booooooorring in the extreme.
But at least he didn't tell me to cease to exist, which is what Markos did on the Ides of March 2016.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Actually the real problem with Bernie Sanders is he is
running with the same political party as four years ago, one in which he shares with a heck of alot more Markos Moulitsas'. The little CIA dude is a good example of how sharing a political party with people like him will never do the trick. Sanders had a chance to possibly change our political system, but he missed the train.
Yes, and that will likely
be one of Sanders' biggest regrets, I would bet.
dfarrah
bedfellows
While "politics makes strange bedfellows" is an ancient proverb and truism, Markos really is a bedfellow too far. Likewise all the conservadems he likes so much.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Bed fellow or bed bug?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
As an aside, I went ahead and watched the video.
Poor guy was on the verge of hyperventilating. And he said nothing, absolutely nothing. In fact, if anything he contradicted himself by saying Sanders is with his same message which he admits everyone else has picked up. So his only point, which he fails to address, is that Bernie is "divisive", because they're all basically the same now, at least in rhetoric. So it's not about the issues, it's about the divisiveness of Bernie, according to him. Divisive in what manner to the hyperventilating CIA dude, I don't know.
Markos' Madlibs
"The problem with Bernie Sanders is _________."
He never seems to tire of ways to fill in that blank.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Markos can't baffle with brilliance.
With bullshit, as Markos can't baffle with brilliance.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The problem with Markos is
He's the same shrill corporate shill he was 12 years ago.
The problem with Markos Moulitsas is that after four years
he has still the same message as he had four years ago.
May be we should all play for change ...
[video:https://youtu.be/Sc8t6BZUSJs]
user subir saves the day over there at TOP
Bloviators
https://www.euronews.com/live
No use for Sabir.....
Another snake in the grass, which is how he is still there. When you're willing to kowtow and grovel, you are officially a member in good standing at GOS. Satan is right.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I don't know the user subir to know enough about his
snakiness.
I left TOP on my own and as soon as I announced it, they slammed the door behind me as fast as they could. I really didn't care about it. I can not post over there, but also have no special interest in doing so.
I still can read at TOP though. That's good enough. Sometimes some authors here make me check out some essay posted at TOP. Otherwise I read as the German say: "querfeldein" oder "querbeet". No big deal.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Do you remember Sabir coming here to try to talk
people into voting for Hillary? He would then go back to dkos and share his experience.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Like it was yesterday
The title of his most infamous essay here was "Hillary is not the enemy". A day later I posted, "Yes Virginia, Hillary is the Enemy" in response.
A week later, I was bojo'd over at TOP in absentia.
Fun times.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
subir's essay...
remains c99's finest hour.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Man, that was fun!
I sure miss some of the commenters...hope they will return.
Alphalop, elenacarlena...I miss you!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
missing posters
And Galtisalie and lunachickie, too!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The only good thing about Subir's essay
We're the comments from the C99 community.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
@Anja Geitz Thanks so much
Thanks so much for re-posting that excellent essay, Anja. It, and the comments that followed, are a perfect summation of what the neoliberals and their chosen Queen did to the Democratic Party and to those of us who once believed in its promise. It's amazing that they're still at it three years later, still undermining genuine progressives while promoting obvious wolves in sheep's clothing.
Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl
You're welcome, Laurel
I figure if I got bojo'd for it, I might as well run out the mileage from it, right?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
And yet..
Would it surprise you to know that this is considered CT on ToP? Not that Trump got the media to focus so much on him, but that it was on Herheinous' orders.
And yes the Subir essay was our finest hour. Just like Shah said it would be... lol. Sadly though none of us got through to him. I spent over an hour reading it just now. And the one he posted on ToP. BTW we are now posting on thee most decrepit site in the universe. According to one long time members.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
What surprises me
Is that they are still talking about us. If we are so decrepit, why lend us relevance by mentioning us at all over there?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
It's envy.
capitalization adjusted for format change
It's envy, Anja.
Envy of our literacy levels, envy of our accepting environment, envy at our not using ads, envy of our not being a platform for every sort of spam known to humankind, envy of our freedom of speech over here that they very much don't enjoy over there. (Yes, they really do hate us for our freedoms!)
JtC has waaaay outdone their blogsite master Markos Moulitsas, and it makes them uncomfortable. And envious.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
While all of that is true about C99
I have a suspicion that their insults are meant to discredit our message so that the inmates over at that insane asylum keep feeding on the zombie lies and opening up their wallets.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
groveling?
Umm, did you read subir's diary? It's definitively not "kowtowing and groveling". I fully expect him to take up full-time status here, being so driven by Bojo Banhammer, in 3.....2......1......
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Nor here. No need to grovel here...
I was referring to dailykos. You dont survive over there without biting your tongue.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
subir bojo
And subir's latest diary is a no-holds-barred criticism of Kos' playing fast and loose with polling in order to make Bernie seem weak.
subir could well have evolved since his last appearance here, which was a fiasco of the first order.
And I do not put it past that "community" over there to turn on one of their own. Not for a fraction of a second.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Lots of grovelers on ToP
There are at least 10 people there that are nor rated meaning that they can't rec comments, but still stick around so they can participate on the site. Most of them are Bernie's supporters who don't seem to be welcomed.
One person should have been banned years ago because she is always calling for violence against cops, but instead is just NR. Two rules over there still.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
The problem with Bernie Sanders
is that he was cheated via multiple forms of election fraud.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And apparently beaten or directly threatened
or his family similarly threatened. Is Sane Progressive still writing? She noted she'd organized forcefully and raised considerable sums for him and had no response at all. Also did some resarch on his foreign policy positions since he seldom mentions them.
Totally plausible. And it would explain a lot about Bernie's
shift in tone, and his unwillingness to call out her heinous on the blatant cheating.
Proof?
Just curious, because I know a lot of people believe Bernie or his family were threatened physically or some other way, but I’ve never seen anything to back that up. Do you have a link or something I could check out?
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Bernie threatened?
I don't think we have direct evidence for the contention that Bernie or his family were threatened. It's only a suspicion right now. But it's still a reasonable hypothesis to explain what happened, which is why direct evidence is so crucially required here.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
circumstantial evidence but not enough
to for more than a guess was the bruise on his face. When he fell in the shower, he said. I don't recall him speaking to the bruise on his face.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
direct evidence required
Exactly. Direct evidence is crucially required here.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
That being said,
there is a vast difference between something being unproved and something being disproved, particularly when the assertion is not vastly implausible or actually incapable of being proved one way or the other.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
How's this for plausible?
hi, I happen to think it was skin cancer on Berne's exhausted face at the convention. He looked pissed off to me, and exhausted. Poor guy had to sit through the White Clinton show, presented as if they were royalty. blech
Sanders had skin cancer removed from cheek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal-cell_carcinoma
anything is plausible
lol
Exactly. I don't expect to prove anything. But likewise,
The usual knee-jerk dismissals are vacuous in regard to Billary.
It would be immoral? Phffsst!
She couldn't get away with it? Oh please!
She wouldn't be able to keep it secret? Nonsense.
There is no assurance that she didn't get pissed off at him for throwing her coronation off schedule and send some expensive suited thugs to make him an offer he couldn't refuse.
Just to clarify, whenever I've seen this claim, it's
stated in such a way that I've 'thought' that the various commenters were referring to the Deep State, literally. And, I don't think that is plausible. (if you're talking CIA, etc.)
Now, no one has more disdain for the C's here, than me (at least, I doubt it). Whether or not they would be behind a non-government attempt to, shall we say, "disrupt his Presidential ambitions," might be another story.
Still, for me, I'd need to see some evidence, before I could buy into that theory. As Eyo pointed out, there could even have been a medical reason for the bruising. I imagine that it wasn't addressed (by him), because he didn't feel that he needed to offer an explanation. I wouldn't have.
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
In the absence of hard proof people will have to connect
the few available dots in ways that make sense to them personally.
For myself, I see plenty of motive for Hillary's campaign, neoliberal fake democrats, and forces inside our unelected government to want to freeze Bernie out in 2016. And I see no effective financial, logistical, or legal barriers against any of these groups pulling it off and getting away with it. They all have connections, money, and ways to dodge accountability.
So for myself, I absolutely believe they could have. The only question is did they? And if so, then specifically who?
The timing of him capitulating
coincides with the facial bruise.
So if he was threatened, why is he vigorously campaigning now? He is sure not threatened now. It was just a 2016 threat, not a 2020 threat? And Clinton appears to be working to get super delegates to put her on the ballot. She hasn't gone away.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Say WHAT??
Frankly I'm surprised SHE isn't running again, but this is so believable I have to know more. It's just like her to avoid the campaign and try to back door her way to the candidacy.
“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”
Virtually everyone on this board knows more about the
DNC rules changes than I do, but what I understand is that if there is no clear winner on the first ballot at the convention, delegates can vote in who they want on the second ballot.
That rule reeks of Clinton influence, makes it unnecessary for her to campaign.
Any and all are welcome to flesh this out and correct me.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
My take is there
is a fair amount of CDS and HDS in these pages, and so a Clinton plot to take power is never far from some people's paranoid thoughts.
In the extremely unlikely event that a second ballot should give a majority to HRC, it will be a nomination not worth the paper it is printed on. The progressive wing of the party would abandon her and either stay home or vote 3d party.
The party is likely to have centrist-establishment Hillary alternatives available. Harris, Gillibrand, one or two others who could be more effective nominees compared to the Hillary.
Note I didn't mention Biden above as a Hillary alternative. I'm beginning to seriously doubt he will be around for nomination next year.
Did you just call me
paranoid about Clinton?
You see a lot more progressives than I see.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Didn't intend to
point fingers even indirectly at any particular poster, no. Now, I'm not an expert on DNC nomination rules, but it's my understanding that traditionally pledged delegates on the 1st ballot are released from their pledges after initial voting occurs and no candidate has a majority. This is to enable voting flexibility and allow compromises and other interesting inside stuff to occur so that, you know, the party is able to escape from the gridlock and get a nominee before Election Day.
Prior to the current cycle, superdelegates, established in 1984 in the pre-Clinton era, voted in the first round and were able to put a mighty strong thumb on the scale. Now the rule change (positive step, a compromise) limits SDs role. And how many decades has it been since the DP went to a 2d ballot? Otoh, a compromise re SDs, rather than a complete elimination, was inevitable given that Tom Perez is from the establishment wing of the party.
We are half a century and more from the good old days of 1968 when the nominee could courageously skip all the primary contests and get nominated solely by working the back rooms. For all you youngsters out there, that would be Hubert Humphrey (D-MN), the incumbent VP. His boss, LBJ, very doubtful the party would actually be so stupid as to nominate his emasculated VeeP, also hoped to sit back and not get his hands dirty competing in the primary contests and then sweep into the convention and be crowned again. Alas, this did not quite work out the way Lyndon had hoped.
There is absolutely no groundswell of nostalgia for Hillary, nor regrets that she isn't running yet again this time with another one of her wonderfully effective campaigns. And with 4 female candidates who could potentially win or be selected VP (not counting my friend Marianne, sorry), with one leading candidate, Bernie, already clearly on record as favoring a female for his VP, there are a number of opportunities for a woman to make it to the top spot or the #2. And with this long, diverse process, the party is getting a strong sense that there are more women of note in the party than Hillary, and that maybe her time has come and gone.
Again, history says it's very unlikely this thing will go beyond the 1st ballot, but if so, there are a number of compromise alternatives out there, none of them named Hillary.
LBJ in 1968
Umm, no.
Lyndon Johnson had already made it clear in March of 1968 that he had no interest whatsoever in being the Dem nominee for President in that year's elections:
[video:https://youtu.be/2-FibDxpkb0?t=291]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Um yes. I'm well
aware of his famous "I shall not seek..." televised address. But the good historical literature, the accurate and honest historians anyway, also will note that once Bobby was, ahem, out of the way, Lyndon saw a path to redemption, through the usual back channels of power. After all, only lowly Hubert Humphrey, his own VP, stood in his way.
It happened as I stated: Lyndon waited a decent interval for the process to play out a bit longer, then, just as the Dem convo was getting underway in Chicago (another interesting item for younger folk to check out), he made it known to one of his top aides (was it Marvin Watson?) that he wanted him to go to the convention and quietly canvass delegates about whether they would be interested in ole Lyndon getting back in. After all, it was only a speech and he's a politician and things could be worked out and smoothed over. And after all, no one was very excited, to say the least, about Hubert getting the nom. And emasculated Hubert (LBJ: "I've got his pecker in my pocket") would have gladly stepped aside for his boss.
But the canvass went badly; few wanted LBJ as the candidate again. Johnson wasn't happy, but understood the cold hard numbers. And it was all over.
But make no mistake, it happened.
Several sources
such as here, and reports elsewhere including evidence from WH tapes.
Exactly.
If he or his family was threatened in some way, he certainly hasn’t done a good job of going away. It just doesn’t add up.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
See my comment below.
Running as a Democrat in a well-managed (from their point of view) Democratic primary does little or nothing to threaten the establishment. As long as he doesn't win, which they almost certainly have covered, and especially if they're able to sell a well-managed Elizabeth Warren as his replacement to the American people.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Excellent point, OTC! EOM
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
No, the idea would be
that the threat was specific to not doing anything to disrupt the party (in all senses). For instance, by walking out with all his delegates and joining the protesters outside. That would have presented a viable third option with a famous and well-liked face at the head of it.
What he's doing now is running as a Democrat...again. That doesn't threaten anybody unless he wins the nomination. And they're ready to prevent that this time. Last time, they didn't think he presented any kind of threat, so his campaign kinda snuck up on them and they had to move quick and partly in public view. This time, what with the Department of Homeland Security running the election machinery, he shouldn't get far at all. It appears to me that Warren is being groomed as the candidate, probably with Kamala Harris in the VP seat. That way they can sell people on the idea that a progressive is winning so who cares about Bernie Sanders.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Sorry, I didn't keep a link to the image
of Sanders sitting in the DNC audience; the photographer's image shows the right side of his face, and there did seem to be a carefully managed wound. Sanders himself appeared to be under the pressure of a lot of mournful emotion. And writers on other sites mentioned this too.
I’ve seen that too,but it’s not proof.
it’s circumstantial evidence at best with a healthy dose of speculation. I was just hoping there was something more substantial if people are continuing to make this claim.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Thank you for making that point, Dr JC. IMO,
it doesn't add up.
Are people forgetting that after the 2016 election cycle, he was rewarded with a (created-just-for-him) Senate Dem Leadership position?
Senate Democrats tap Bernie Sanders to lead outreach
Doesn't sound like someone fearful for their life (to me).
Not to beat a dead horse, but, as I've pointed out several times, in the past--the federal bureaucracy isn't CSI, okay?
(teasing, just trying to make a point)
I've also detailed some of the retaliatory administrative avenues that are available to the PtB to keep errant Feds in line. (which fall quite short of bringing out the proverbial rubber hoses)
Bottom line, it's simply not necessary to threaten to--or, literally, send out--'goon squads.' Seriously.
Plus, if there had been that danger, what would it say about him, now--that he would put himself and his Family in a risky position (again). Sorry, don't believe he'd do that, under any circumstances.
But, like Dr JC, I'm open to any actual proof. And, I'll gladly eat crow, if it can be provided.
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Nope. She left YouTube, or was driven off
after saying that the Las Vegas shootings were a false flag.
For that, a lot of people piled on her with angry accusations and character attacks, rather than addressing and proving or disproving the claim.
Only the most outlandish and patently ridiculous claims deserve not to be investigated--like for instance, if I told you I was a Martian, or if I said I could flap my arms and fly.
Sadly, the idea that some part of our government, such as the CIA for instance, might actually kill people in order to sway political opinion in a direction they like, is not that implausible. Mangiare, as Gore Vidal once said; would that it were so.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thank you CSMS
Her coveragee of the Las Vegas situation did feel over-the-edge, and odd for her.
The problem with Bernie
As far as the PTB are concerned, he hasn't gone away yet.
Keep punching!
The problem FOR Bernie and Tulsi is (and the rest of the gang)
that the laws regulating political campaigns and elections stink so much to heaven that the whole world, if they happen to understand those laws (which almost nobody does or cares for), hold their nose and never trust any American's bloviating about Freedom and Democracy and Justice anymore, no matter what kind of fancy tricks campaign advisors or consultants or media dogs running around come up with to justify for their candidates anything to be reasonable, including wars.
I
https://www.euronews.com/live
Niko House's debate analysis
Niko House did a pretty nice, realistic analysis of Bernie's debate performance, including the possibility that he may have been slightly taken aback by the sudden rhetorical shift in his competitors' tone and also something I've noticed but few people ever mention, which is Bernie's lack of social sophistication/ awareness in dealing with his trickier, more slippery colleagues. It's at ~ 9:00. There is a certain social innocence about Bernie. It's beautiful on one level but it can put him at a disadvantage when the politics gets thick. Niko believes it's the result of his somewhat solitary early life situation. I have my own theory that I'm keeping to myself. Niko can credibly discuss this because he truly is a fan of Bernie's and worked for his 2016 campaign.
Niko also points out how quickly Warren picked up on Tulsi's theme and claimed it as her own. That is so Warren.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr5GZl_4UAY]
Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl
Like 2016, Bernie
just wants to stick to discussing policy, nothing personal. Which is fine, generally, in most circumstances. But Kamala Harris showed you can avoid ad hom nastiness while being passionate in directly addressing a competitor's sorry record that needs direct confrontation.
Speaking of which, if later it largely comes down to Bernie vs Kamala, a real possibility, will white male Bernie have the courage to address the black woman directly on some of her less than progressive and uncourageous stances when she was CA's AG?
And if Bernie goes up against Donald and his lies and horrendous, reckless policies, will Bernie stand there on the debate stage and go through the usual "With all due respect to the president ..." mild-mannered Dem routine of routinely avoiding directly calling out the R opponent?
(btw, your video link does not work)
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