To My Friends on the Left: Hillary Clinton Is Not the Enemy

Jeffrey Isaacs published a letter today in The Nation. I would quibble with a few things in it, for example, it is addressed to a successful professional audience and is somewhat oblivious to the travails of those who are not. Hillary’s foreign policy is certainly “within a bipartisan mainstream” as Issacs says. Yet this should only be taken as an indictment of this “bipartisan mainstream”.

But Isaacs’ main argument is sound. The various career-furthering strategem Hillary is criticized for employing have been used by most presidential candidates before her as well. All this criticism is meant to divert your attention from the fact that most of us have few views in common with the groping and bullying Trump.

If you are approaching Clinton from the left, and haven’t already, you should read this: Noam Chomsky's 8-Point Rationale for Voting for the Lesser Evil Presidential Candidate

In particular:

The broader lesson to be drawn is not to shy away from confronting the dominance of the political system under the management of the two major parties. Rather, challenges to it need to be issued with a full awareness of their possible consequences. This includes the recognition that far right victories not only impose terrible suffering on the most vulnerable segments of society but also function as a powerful weapon in the hands of the establishment center, which, now in opposition can posture as the “reasonable” alternative. A Trump presidency, should it materialize, will undermine the burgeoning movement centered around the Sanders campaign, particularly if it is perceived as having minimized the dangers posed by the far right.

If, for some reason, the Weiner laptop saga has made any difference to your views, do read Isaacs as well:

To My Friends on the Left: Hillary Clinton Is Not the Enemy.

She is being attacked by the right wing because the right wing hates her. And the right wing hates her because she is a liberal and a feminist and a woman and because she supports the things that most anger the right wing: gender equality, reproductive freedom, equality for gays and lesbians, gun control, racial equality, and civil rights.

These things that she supports are the things that we support. The things she supports have their limits. She has her limits. But she is not evil, and she is not an enemy.

In the next ten days leading up to Election Day, Clinton will be subjected to a list-ditch barrage of attacks from the right. She does not “deserve” these attacks. And while the attackers target her, what they attack is much of what is valuable to you and to me. To us.

Let us not exult in her travails. They are undeserved. And such exultation does no good in any case.

Let us defeat a Republican neofascist by electing a Democratic neoliberal feminist.

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lunachickie's picture

and let's not even say we did...

Let us defeat a Republican neofascist by electing a Democratic neoliberal feminist.

She's the enemy of those whose "travails" she has demonstrably failed to comprehend. So, no.

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doesn't mean she still isn't an enemy.

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lunachickie's picture

"Neoliberal" is a four-letter word, in my new book...

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elenacarlena's picture

The neols and the neocs. Two birds of a feather.

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lotlizard's picture

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Bisbonian's picture

(By the way, your icon looks so much like our #2 cat, 'Yoda', I just love it.)

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

darkmatter's picture

That last line of that pathetic argument is just full of ... fail. C'mon! Who's with me! Let's vote for the neoliberal! Yay!!

I wonder if the author actually has a firm grasp on what "neoliberal" even means.

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dervish's picture

like Markos.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Son of Sam wasn't the first to mass murder people so I guess it was OK..

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

divineorder's picture

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

WaterLily's picture

About to be karmically bitch-slapped by a six-armed goddess.

(One can dream ...)

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Centaurea's picture

I'm thinking the Buddhist deity Avalokiteśvara (known as Chenrezig in Tibet) might be appropriate. In some manifestations, he has 1,000 arms.

Avalokiteśvara is known as the Bodhisattva of Compassion, but being compassionate does not make one a wimp. Acting from compassion for all beings can make one ferocious.

Om Mani Padme Hum

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"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Alphalop's picture

of slapping that the Clinton Crime Cabal warrant...

Does he perhaps have a brother or sister?

I don't know a lot about the Buddhist religion, but I hope their gods reproduce like Mormons because there is a lot of people in the DNC that need some sense slapped into them and I wouldn't want the poor deity to get smackers elbow or something. Wink

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

thanatokephaloides's picture

Six arms, check.
Rides pissed-off species of cat, check.
Compassion for victims of injustice, check.

Looks like the Consort of Shiva is the Goddess you're looking for, Eagles92!

OM Dum Durgayei Namaha
OM Krim Kalikayei Namaha

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WaterLily's picture

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jwa13's picture

the impeachment hearings will..

"Good riddance to bad rubbish", as my late-lamented Gramma used to say --

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

Hillary raked over the coals for the faults of Anthony Weiner. Yes, the e-mail stuff is a self-inflicted wound. But the salaciousness of this particular episode in that saga is simply tragic. There was a time when I liked Weiner. Now I just see him as a douche who couldn't control his own appetites or keep himself from hurting and shaming the mother of his child.

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@subirgrewal

I really don't get the exultation at having Huma and Hillary raked over the coals for the faults of Anthony Weiner.

I don't see anyone raking them over the coals because of Weiner. It's about the emails. Why in the fuck does Weiner and Huma have these emails on their laptops? And if they contain classified info or other info that indicts clinton or at least casts her in a even more distasteful light what - are you going to blame the Russians too?? Nice deflection subir as usual. Waaaa!!poor Hillary! Poor Huma!!!
Personally, I get no satisfaction from this whole sordid mess. What a fucking shame that we're subjected to the likes of clinton/s and the , what I thought, good people defending them. Here. On this site. So you want everyone here to forget about the election rigging, her pay to play while SOS, this whole "I'm above the law" FBI, DOJ farce and all the fucking corruption in general because....trump. Please. I came here to get away from people like you...

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e-mails, at all.

Let's be real here. Married people share laptops. Clearly Clinton and her aides set up the separate server (at least partly) for convenience (she wanted a blackberry, State didn't offer one). I'd say Huma was sharing a laptop for convenience as well.

I'm not interested in having Trump anywhere close to the oval office. It's been clear to me, since June that the only way to avoid that is by supporting Hillary's bid. You may reach a different conclusion, and that's fine. Doesn't make you a bad, or "not good" person in my eyes.

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@subirgrewal

Bollox Ref's picture

Married people share laptops.

Some might, but I would hazard a guess that most have a device of their own........... different jobs, different interests, different screen-time needs.

And remember, Huma and her deplorable were/are a high-powered couple with the means for all number of computing devices.

We're just average plonkers, but have always had our own computer.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

dervish's picture

used to be "more and better Democrats". Do you remember that?

I remember when you were a Bernie supporter. Now we know the level of cheating and corruption that was leveled against him by the DNC. First DWS had to resign, and now just weeks later, Donna Brazile will be next, because of cheating that she facilitated. How does that make you feel? Do these people have your back? How about Mook, Podesta, and the rest? The DNC and the Clinton campaign are grade-A slimeballs who lie and cheat to get what they want. They'll stop at nothing, and they laugh at people like you and I.

Trump is as bad, I get that, but that is no reason to hand the keys of the kingdom over to a known liar, cheater, and thief.

No fucking way Subir.

#NeverHillary

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Wink's picture

I, too, remember Subir among the Berniecrats. Many of them returned to TOP to get on board the Good Ship HRC. A pity. Bernie's revolution about to reboot.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

elenacarlena's picture

TOP needs to just change its slogan to, "More Democrats," for truth in advertising.

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Wink's picture

four Groups out there carrying on what Bernie started. Granted, HRC's "win" pretty much ended Bernie's Revolution as far as the masses were and are concerned, but those 3 or 4 groups carry on.
But, Bernie's Revoultion won't pick up steam again until those masses left behind in the wake of The Loss again grab a sign and head to a Bernie rally. And, yes! There will be Bernie Rallies again! With Bernie his self back behind the podium!
How long do you think those masses will put up with HRC's horse$h!t once they get a whiff of what she selling? I'm guessing shortly after her 100 day "honeymoon" ends. And, I'm guessing Bernie thinking the same.
"Clearly she has Not enacted any of the Platform planks we put together in Philly. For that reason... Bernie! Bernie! ... thank you... for that reason I am BACK on the road, putting the band back together, so that Together we can put pressure on Her Highness... "
Yes. You're going to see that happen.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

if you ever knew what it was in the first place.

Married people who share a laptop that contains classified information on it are guilty on multiple counts of being reckless with classified information. First if they both don't have the same level of security clearance then one of them is violating an agreement they made that is punishable up to ten years in prison, by law. Second, many many people have LOST THEIR SECURITY CLEARANCE for even accidentally bringing home a thumb drive that has classified information on it. That is a big No no, because the government doesn't want it to fall into the wrong hands.

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~OaWN

Yet, and whether any of it is classified.

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@subirgrewal

dervish's picture

on Weiner's computer, Hillary is toast.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

gulfgal98's picture

The only reason we know that emails that should be the property of the State Department and we the people existed on Weiner's laptop is because Weiner is a dispicable person and is in criminal trouble himself for an unrelated reason.

The question is not Weiner's sexting or even the sharing of laptops by a married couple. The question is WHY are government business emails on anyone's personal computer? This whole thing appears to go back to the Clinton State Department avoiding FOIA. Further Huma Abedin lied to the FBI when she said she turned everything involving State Dept. business over to them. She is now claiming she has no idea how those emails got on Weiner's computer. So we have two possibilities. Either Abedin herself stored them in Weiner's computer, either directly or inadvertently via file sharing or Weiner stole them off of Abedin's computer. Either way, documents that were supposed to be stored with the State Department are now being found outside the State Department.

We also must remember the Huma Abedin was simultaneously working for the State Department, the Clinton Foundation, and Teneo. The potential for conflicts of interests were tremendous as was the mixing of the business of all three.

No matter how Clinton supporters may want to paint this, it still stinks to high heaven and may indicate an even deeper rot.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

if you ever log onto them from a computer. Outlook, Apple Mail do that for instance.

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@subirgrewal

Wink's picture

There's no F'n way those emails could have gotten on The Weiner's computer without somebody putting them there. They didn't transfer there by themselves. That's her conundrum. HRC, how did your emails get on The Weiner's computer? Beats the fuck out of me, and besides... What Difference Does it Make? I'm president ot the U.S. of A. y'all just little people.
We'll soon find out.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

dervish's picture

They'll claim that Russian hackers wrote those e-mails and placed them on Weiner's laptop.

...and if you believe that, you must be a kossack.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

gulfgal98's picture

That Clinton and her surrogates did not follow internal protocols for handling on line communications.

Because Abedin did not follow those protocols and reportedly sent copies of emails to her yahoo account, they were no longer in compliance with State Dept protocols and were subject to being captured by others, including her husband's computer.

I thought I was clear in that respect. It was extremely careless handling of public documents, some of which may be classified.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Sandino's picture

but they won't share prison cells.

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lotlizard's picture

For example, it was tragic when fundamentalist preacher Ted Haggard, who talked on the phone with Bush 43 White House every week, was revealed to be having meth-laced sessions with a gay prostitute.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Ted_Haggard

Yet many who consider themselves compassionate exulted because of the way figures such as Ted Haggard derive political capital from condemning and demonizing others.

This season, people in the Clinton camp have made Trump’s attitude toward women an issue of culture and behavior.

Fiery judgments have a way of boomeranging. Now the same standards are being applied to the Clinton inner circle itself.

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edg's picture

But I do get a small chuckle out of the fact that the October surprise against Trump was him saying celebrities can grab pussies while the October surprise against Clinton occurred because Weiner wanted to put his wiener in a 15 year old girl.

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Bollox Ref's picture

is all Weiner's fault?

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

dervish's picture

that the Russians forged the ones implicating her. It's the "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" defense.

Only a kossack would believe it, because the rest of us are laughing our asses off.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Computers don't lie. That's why Hillary is being toppled by them.

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

elenacarlena's picture

"shame the mother of his child". What does Huma have to do with it?

I don't believe in holding spouses responsible for the behaviors of their spouses. And I say this as a bachelorette, so I could have a field day blaming y'all for your unwise pairings.

But reasons we choose mates are complicated. Reasons to stay when they make mistakes or worse are also complicated.

I don't blame Huma for Weiner, and I don't blame Hill for Bill. Keep the shame where it belongs, with the men, the shameful actors in these cases.

But when Hill says she'll put Bill "eliminate those welfare queens" Clinton in charge of domestic economic policy, then I have a problem with Hill.

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Cachola's picture

My stance is, you marry a jerk, you stay with the jerk, you are condoning the jerk and thus guilty to a certain extent. Nothing complicated about it.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

elenacarlena's picture

since you have the voice of experience, but I disagree.

People aren't all one thing. We're all jerks at times. There are considerations such as abuse, emotional, financial, traditional, and social complications. Not everyone has the strength or resources to leave. In many quarters, there is still a lot of pressure to work things out.

Maybe we should take "for better or worse" out of the traditional vows, and end them with, "Til death or realization of jerkdom do us part". Maybe that would help.

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edg's picture

Does she lack the strength or resources to leave? She is a well-paid aide to one of the most powerful women in the world. I find it hard to believe she lacks either strength or resources. Heck, my mother, brother, and me each chipped in $150 (and we were all very poor at the time) to get my sister a divorce.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

she sure as hell looks like the biggest enemy to me. She makes two statements in this video that frankly scare the hell out of me. It all starts at about 3:45:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0U0wGAlpgM]

The idea that we should respond to cyberattacks the same way we'd respond to a military attack on our country is, quite frankly, lunatic. Hacking is more like espionage than it is like a military attack on a city. Imagine if, during the Cold War, we'd responded militarily every time we ran into Russian espionage.

and then there's her first priority as president, which was even scarier than I remembered. "One of the first things I will do as president is to call for a new nuclear posture review. We have to make sure that America's arsenal is prepared to meet future threats."

Aside from global warming, I can't think of anything worse than nuclear war.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

elections is disingenuous. Remember the Panama papers? At the time, the Russian establishment was furious over it. This wikileaks stuff is likely payback for that. Clearly we've been trading cyber-attacks with various entities for some time now. I don't see her advocating a disproportionate response.

On the nuclear modernization, there is a case to the made that our current protocols and equipment is reaching end of life and needs to be re-assessed to be made safer. Obama was about as committed to nuclear disarmament as any other president, but wasn't able to make substantial headway. The real problem here is that our conventional abilities are so far ahead of most competitors (including the Russians and Chinese) that they are loathe to cut back on their arsenals at all. Meanwhile, we of course are never going to give up our edge.

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@subirgrewal

lunachickie's picture

you must have spectacular balance.

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Alphalop's picture

upgrading our nuclear arsenal is now a progressive cause?

I bet you consider yourself a liberal, but:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk]

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

WaterLily's picture

Superb, Alphalop.

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Alphalop's picture

favorites.

I frequently use that clip to point out people hypocrisy, not only does it make my point but it also makes me chuckle.

A lovely twofer. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

The only case for nuclear "modernization" is made by the nuclear labs, the ones making the big bucks.Our arsenal is fine for at least 100 years. Obama has put up $1 Trillion over the next 30 years for the nuclear arsenal...one fucking trillion dollars toward making our weapons of mass death and destruction more efficient ! Our smallest nuke makes the bomb we dropped on an innocent civilian population in Japan look like a firecracker. The whole toxic nuclear world is crazy beyond comprehension. We are still on a cold war , hair trigger alert with Russia. Obama ponied up the $ 1 trillion all by himself. no arm twisting, no nothing, which makes Hillary's statement about a NEW nuke posture review even more terroristic. At least the UN did try to get a resolution passed that would have outlawed nukes. Even North Korea voted for it ! The sheer destructive force of our nuke arsenal makes us the number one terrorist nation on the planet. Neither Trump nor Hillary have the integrity to have access to a nuclear button.

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dervish's picture

What there is is called Mutually Assured Destruction, yet few, if any of her advisors remember that.

This is a must read article from Counterpunch. The last few paragraphs are epic, and outline brilliantly the dangers of a Clinton presidency.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Voted to ban nuclear weapons globally. What does it say about HRC that North Korea is more rational than her?

And Obama wasn't committed to nuclear disarmament at all. He's actually disarmed less nukes than any other president, and has actually been working on modernizing them. GW Bush was better about disarming nukes.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

for future threats--and that's her top priority when she becomes president--and you don't see that as a problem. OK.

There's no point in trying to rewrite what she said as being a deterrence argument, however. Deterrence is not about being prepared to do something; deterrence is about everyone having an equal amount of power, which keeps anybody from doing anything. Hillary didn't say one goddamned thing about balance. She didn't talk about falling behind other countries, about a missile gap, or anything like it. I know deterrence arguments, having fought with proponents of them over my lifetime, and that ain't one of them. "Being prepared to meet a threat" isn't deterrence.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

orientation is based upon disproportionate responses. It has nothing to do with balance, its objective is domination. You seem unwilling to recognize the clearly aggressive, expansionist positions she has consistently advocated. To say nothing of her decidedly unbalanced antipathy toward Russia. That is certainly unbalanced, and I would say, reckless and irresponsible.

Opposition to Trump need not, and should not signify approval of Clinton, nor of her harebrained foreign policy advisors - a gaggle of militarists bent on global hegemony, who might well be even more dangerous than Trump is.

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native

say that she represents the problem completely. I just love the bipartisan endorsements she has received from those at the heart of the problem.

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ie the men in the boardroom should not be sexist because I work just as hard as they do to try to lower overhead via cuting wages and guting benefits of working mothers.

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Solidarity forever

Older and Wiser Now's picture

Apparently subir actually came over here to troll for Daily Kos. He posted this same diary over there, and apparently just decided to post it over here to be an asshole, and report back to "his people" about what happened over here.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1589134/64116898#comment_64116898

"I am no doubt going to be slammed for this on c99. Let’s take a look shall we."

So. Very. Disappointing.

Subir, your vote for Hillary is going to leave lots of blood on your hands when she wins, and you will have the joy of watching what unfolds under her watch and knowing that YOU BUILT THAT. You are falling for all of her well-calculated emotional manipulations and fear-mongering. I feel tremendous pity for you right now, combined with an urge to vomit.

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~OaWN

elenacarlena's picture

Let them come over here and take a look. They'll see mostly substantive discussion of the issues with little ad hominem or other personal attack, no flags and no pile-ons.

Maybe some of them will learn a thing or two.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

they are simply out to have fun by pulling the chains of others. And that is what subir is doing. From what I can see, he is not really trying to engage in any kind of sincere dialogue whatsoever.

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~OaWN

I don't always have something to say in response. I understand that for some voting for HRC is a bridge too far.

BTW, there have been diaries where I've been slammed by people on DKos and there's been discussion about that here in the x-posts. So it's a very similar dynamic, but in reverse.

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@subirgrewal

Older and Wiser Now's picture

other than trying to make some responses now because I embarrassed you by pointing out what you were doing.

Sure, it's not a law anywhere that you have to respond to every single comment. I made my observation though, because I happened to go to Daily Kos because I wanted to check out some of your latest comments to see where you might be coming from, and then lo and behold I noticed that you had posted the same diary over there. So I checked out those comments, and saw your comment about "those people" over on c99p and then I realized what you were doing.

Even now I realize that talking to you is most likely just a waste of my time.

I know you are afraid, and that you are acting out of that fear, which is 100% what Hillary and every other fear-monger wants. People who are afraid do not think rationally because the fear response consumes them. Fears are awful to experience, but they are not always real, but you cannot tell someone who is in fear that "they don't have much to be afraid of" because they are too afraid to trust you. Exhibit A: any small child who is afraid of monsters under the bed.

The thing is, because HRC supporters are so busy being afraid of TRUMP! that they have not stopped and taken a look at Clinton. I sincerely believe that YOU and EVERYONE ELSE has LESS TO FEAR from Trump than they have to fear from Clinton. And that is what I described in my essays, the ones that I don't believe you have read. Hillary is a war-monger who screws things up and makes things worse, and all of that blood is going to be on the hands of those who accidentally vote for her because they didn't realize what a monster she actually is.

I want to provide other evidence to you to back up my claims, but unless you are willing to read them, it is all just a fucking waste of my time. So I'll give you one quote from Julian Assange and hope that sinks in somehow

WikiLeaks: A vote today for Hillary Clinton is a vote for endless, stupid war - by Julian Assange (wikileaks.org)

Hillary didn't just vote for Iraq. She made her own Iraq. Libya is Hillary's Iraq and if she becomes president she will make more.

I have had years of experience in dealing with Hillary Clinton and have read thousands of her cables. Hillary lacks judgement and will push the United States into endless, stupid wars which spread terrorism. Her personality combined with her poor policy decisions have directly contributed to the rise of ISIS.

Pentagon generals objected to destroying the Libyan state. They felt Hillary did not have a safe post-war plan. Hillary Clinton went over their heads. Libya has been destroyed. It became a haven for ISIS. The Libyan national armory was looted and hundreds of tons of weapons were transferred to jihadists in Syria. Hillary's war has increased terrorism, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians and has set back women's rights in the Middle East by hundreds of years. Having learned nothing from the Libyan disaster Hillary then set about trying do the same in Syria.

Hillary publicly took credit for the destruction of the Libyan state. On hearing that the country's president had been killed by her handiwork, she became wild-eyed and gloated "We came, we saw, he died!". In the momentary thrill of the kill, she had aped, of all people, Julius Ceaser.

Hillary's problem is not just that she's war hawk. She's a war hawk with bad judgement who gets an unseemly emotional rush out of killing people. She shouldn't be let near a gun shop, let alone an army. And she certainly should not become president of the United States.

[VIDEO:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y]

Everytime I look around I see some Democrat saying RUSSIA! But do they have a single scrap of evidence to back up their claims? No. It is all just red-baiting, trying to gin up the cold-war again, more FEARMONGERING. It is all lies and deception and INTELLIGENT PEOPLE LIKE I THOUGHT YOU WERE should be able to check this out and realize that what I am saying is the truth. But of course, I cannot force you, and if you think that I am just a HATER who has always been secretly a Republican than you won't listen to a single word that I or anyone else has to say.

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~OaWN

We'll just disagree on that.

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@subirgrewal

TheOtherMaven's picture

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Cassiodorus's picture

which Clinton has already screwed.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

lunachickie's picture

in previous posts by this poster, he/she is always "polite". As long as they are that, admins let them post here. And that's fine, but it's hard to see why they bother, knowing a) that things are as non-partisan as possible, and b) there just aren't any votes to be mined for Her Heinous.

I've thought all along that it wasn't necessarily to be a dick about it, I always thought, with all their careful writing, that they thought their words and phrasing and spin were so fucking spectacular, and so convincing, that they, sublr, would be The One That Brings The Flock Back Home so he/she could be a bona-fide Democratic HeeRo. Heh. And, well, you see how that's working out, so it would seem now to be all about being a dick and generating a response to DK. Obviously somebody needs the attention. I guess they couldn't keep up the act that much longer, lest their conscience kick in. Can't have that... I'm terribly sorry that their golden Ex-(ha ha) Goldwater Girl can't even pull 500 people for a rally lately (yeh, "the polls are close", LOLOLOL, what a bunch of bullshit)--let's face the truth here; those dumbasses may actually need the clicks over there by now.

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lunachickie's picture

I'm bitter. Go shit in the Orange punchbowl, if you're just doing it out of some sense of accomplishment--how long can you walk the line without getting tossed (or TOSd, whatever may apply) off either site? I'm not here to play junior high school. Good grief!

Or something? I don't know how anyone feels accomplishment running trial ballons and what-not up the ol' flagpole, I would just probably imagine it beat the hell out of payroll accounting as a vocation...

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

If he was sincerely interested in a conversation. But it pretty much looked like a post and run exercise to me, that is until I pointed that out to others.

I think that folks on Daily Kos are so committed to thinking that we are evil that they cannot fathom that we might have anything worthwhile to listen to.

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~OaWN

Shahryar's picture

if those people recognize us as a thing then we're starting to be effective. For them to hold us in as much disdain as we hold them ('cause let's face it, we think they're pathetic suck ups who wouldn't mind going down with the ship because it's "the ship", after all) is amusing and a sign that they're uncomfortable with us, at least enough to think they need to deal with us.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

abusive ex. He/she (or in this case Kos) doesn't want anyone here, hence the reason for this site, BUT they cannot stand it that everyone still isn't in love with them (or her, as the case may be) so they keep coming around. And it's not anyone here that they want, it's their vote.

It's really weird that they think people are so stupid.

2 EDITS: To fix stupid mistakes and to add words so that I make sense.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dervish's picture

They've suffered enormous brain-drain over the past weeks.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

gulfgal98's picture

I want to be very open about how I feel and when I saw this link, I felt compelled to comment. So here is what I posted.

Sad. Really because I have respected you in the past and hoped that you would respect those of us who are on the real left and cannot support Hillary Clinton for various reasons. I spent some time laying out my reasons (with links) due to my dedication to a local Peace vigil and yet you failed to respond to my or any other person’s comments. And then I see that you are blowing me and everyone else off while trolling us over at c99. You have destroyed whatever respect that many of us have had for you in the past even if we disagreed. You could have posted and let it go, but you decided to gloat over it here. Sad, because I really did not want to write this comment but your gloating comment was the reason I am writing this one.

Further, if any one of us on the marginalized left had posted a similar diary here, we would be banned, permanently. Enjoy your fun and have a good day. I will no longer follow you nor read whatever you post here, there or elsewhere.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

It's been a busy day, I haven't had the chance to run through all the comments, here or there, till right now, and I'm reading through them. I generally steer clear of meta-discussions.

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@subirgrewal

dervish's picture

except a hollow echo chamber? Where is the depth, insight and talent?

Now it's all about repeating Robby Mooks' talking points, ad nauseum, and participating in whatever the daily outrage is.

It's boring and pointless, Kos destroyed his brand. Good riddance.

P.S. We have free speech over here!

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Older and Wiser Now's picture

When they go low, WE go high. Only we really do it.

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~OaWN

Amanda Matthews's picture

love from the Peanut Gallery.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

all the time; is deserving of her sky high negatives; and believes in dividing the working class into manageable factions.

I am sorry trees have to cut down to make the pulp for The Nation.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

But I don't get this:

is deserving of her sky high negatives

this is patently not true. Just as some of Obama's disapproval numbers are driven by racists, some of HRC's disapproval numbers are driven by misogynists. Some of those people would be just fine if it were a man, or a white man doing what HRC and Obama do.

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@subirgrewal

lunachickie's picture

Well, aren't you just subtle like a sledgehammer?

(edited to edit the edit of the words "you" and "fuck")

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jwa13's picture

but I also removed a**hole --

Have to keep things polite and respectful over here at c99.

BTW, has anyone inquired of subir_the_a**hole what s/he thinks about the obvious electoral fraud revealed in the Wikileaks/FBI/Wiener(wiener) emails? Hmmm ....?

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

lunachickie's picture

what s/he thinks about the obvious electoral fraud revealed in the Wikileaks/FBI/Wiener(wiener) emails?


If you do not address these things, they do not exist.
Got it?

Don't be sorry, I did so much editing before I hit post on that sucker...

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Cachola's picture

I kept waiting for the magic word. Wink

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

elenacarlena's picture

flip flop like fish out of water. Both have high unfavorables. Both are considered untrustworthy.

Gee, if you spend a lot of your campaign going flippety floppety, people might think they can't trust your ever-changing word and might find you untrustworthy. Funny how that works.

But since it works the same male and female, not misogynist.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

What percentage is "some"? Because for the vast majority, HRC's negatives are driven by her pay for play when SoS, by her record as a war hawk, by the many proven lies she has told, by the evidence that her primary win was dishonest, etc.

In fact, misogyny hasn't been discernible in any of my discussions with many women who refuse to vote for Hillary. I don't know what your assumptions are, Sabir, but I would guess misogyny counts for something less than 3% of her negatives. Hardly worth a mention, really.

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elenacarlena's picture

to gather facts on that. Anti-Hillary folks will variously vote for Jill, cave and vote for Hill, vote for Trump, or stay home.

Only one of those choices, voting for Trump, is potentially misogynist. And I know some of those folks are trying to prevent WW3.

But the majority are voting for Jill. A little hard to square that with misogyny.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Shahryar's picture

I clicked on a link...might have mentioned this already....to Slate which listed 239 things bad about Trump and 1 thing bad about Hillary (mismanaged email server). It was ridiculous. I'm sure there are 239 things to dislike about Hillary. No doubt if many people contributed somebody would include something dubious. And that is what Hillbots would seize on.

Something like this:
1. Thinks war is the way to solve problems
2. Sort of suggests she'll be for "Main Street" but tells bankers, behind closed doors, she's for them
3. Is for the TPP if it gets tweaked a little
4. was disrespectful to Tammy Wynette
5. Says zero about DAPL except the workers have the right to continue building the thing
6. participated in cheating during the primaries

and the Hillbots say "you're not going to vote for her because of Tammy Wynette???"

I think we all remember Glenn Greenwald saying that anyone opposing Hills would be accused of sexism, just like anyone opposing Obama has been accused of racism. It's a little sad that the 'bots think following that script is effective for them but they're into it.

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Does that make me a misogynist too? We don't fall for that old saw around here. Identity politics is a zero sum game.

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Wink's picture

Staus Quo Corporatist. Of, By and FOR the Village, Wall Street and all things status quo. She does not give a damn about the kiddies or the 99%. Oh, contrary, she will do everything to comtinue Obama's Third Term to continue dumping on the 99%. I told kos (Markos) in a post a few months back that he was backing the wrong horse. Why was he backing the corporatist, when we had a Real Progressive in Bernie? I got a three months Time Out foor that post. Back the Dailk Kos candidate, or else! Hillary doesn't deserve to be the White House butler. #AnybodyButHillary for First Woman Prez.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

terriertribe's picture

But she is An Enemy.

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Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.

Obama, Clintons and the whole host of whores in DC are all the enemy. They are the ones stealing our homes, jobs, children's futures, and a living planet. You can go tell the rest of the Hillbots at dailykos that keep sending you here that it is no deal. They picked her and stole the election from Bernie. Fuck them. They are just going to have to steal the election from Trump all by themselves.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that I have to vote for Trump. Not only do I want her to lose, I want her pampered ass in jail to make up for all those bankers and torturers Obama and Holder couldn't be bothered to prosecute.

Moore is right. A vote for Trump is a giant fuck you to the traitorous elites that sold workers, women, kids, the planet and our middle class out for their own personal gain.

I'll be so glad when this election is over and you can quit pestering us sabir.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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