So yeah...
Here in Claremont we have one of these:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/08/robert-mueller-p...
'Trump just crossed a red line': Protesters rally nationwide in support of Mueller probe
I would show you my lousy photos of the rally here except that c99% won't upload them. At any rate, what's next? Rallies for President Pence? Once again, the nice liberals still can't figure out that if they are to stop the Republican Party they've got to do something about the Democratic Party's surrender of government to the Republican Party. Nancy "bipartisanship" Pelosi is back in power, and American politics appears as an endless rerun of the 1932 German Presidential election.
Yawn. Here's a productive alternative: how about protests against the homelessness and destitution that one can see everywhere. No, this isn't a problem to be solved by donating to charities. Governments must step in.
Comments
I think protesting is important...
The Dems are FAR from perfect, but what is going on with the GOP right now is nothing short of treasonous. I think it’s pretty critical that Mueller is allowed to finish the investigation, prepare a full report, and the people need to know what is in it. Dump is hellbent for leather to ensure that the invest doesn’t continue, and that it doesn’t get seen by the public. If he’s an innocent man, then he has defied all logic in his behavior!
Treason is a death penalty offense.
What acts or violations did the gop perform that would deserve execution?
Reading many websites, the accusation of treason is not only applied to gopers, but to people who disagree about the Russian conspiracy bullshit. David Corn called Ron Paul a traitor for wanting dialogue with Russia? Is he a traitor and fit for execution? I have been called a traitor numerous times for not accepting the Russian conspiray bullshit.
If you are going to use the term treason, which people should be executed.
sorry everyone
I amended this diary to include my idea of a positive alternative, and I did this after some of you commented.
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
You made an assumption...
There is treason as defined by a dictionary, and there is treason as defined by law. There is no doubt in my mind that both parties have been committing treason for at least 40 years. Obama was the biggest traitor of all.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I couldn't agree with you more.
I think being a traitor extends to Obama as well. In fact, anyone who sells out policy for money is a traitor in my book.
Government of the people, by the people, for the people .... ought to be in the Constitution, not that anyone gives a damn about it either.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The Supreme Court
would rule the corporations are the only people who matter.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Seditious, certainly. Treasonous, debatable
unless you want to declare the .01% an Enemy of the State....
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Okay!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Pfffft.
The investigation has been going on for two years.
Mueller managed to dig up years of information on some Trump associates. What makes you think that he hasn't done the same for Trump? He has to have years of Trump information already.
I don't care if Mueller continues or not; if Mueller had something substantial, it would have been reported or leaked by now. Trump has repeatedly said he won't fire Mueller.
I agree with the pundits at Fox who advocate for releasing all of the information about the investigation to the public.
dfarrah
So here is a thought. What if Mueller does not indict Trump?
Like other members of the Resistance, I got my law degree watching Law and Order, so I am familiar how DA's work. But still, really, I can't figure out in terms of some collusion charge, what law did Trump knowingly or even not knowingly violate for an indictment. All the prosecutors who go on mainstream media, who not graduate from my prestigious school, can't seem to point to a law, unless it was obstruction. One said the only real law Trump may have broken is if he worked with the Russians to break into the DNC server.
I have not been particularily following the Russian Internet Ad Agency indictment where their lawyers showed up, but some headline said even the judge is confused over what law they are accused of breaking.
Which leads me to the following. Who makes Xanax? If Trump is not indicted and Hillary judicially made President, there will be many a nervous breakdown. I would go long on the stock of the company making it.
It has already been hinted that Mueller is firing blanks
and that he will not be able to prove that Trump colluded with Vlad to win the election. This came out before the election. But as others have stated collusion is not a crime so Mueller can't charge him with anything. And since there was no crime committed he shouldn't have been appointed.
But that's going to be okay because Mueller has indicated those narly Russian internet bots who placed ads on Facebook that were mostly placed after the election and were targeted at Russians living here.
There is more evidence that the FBI broke some laws by lying to the FISA court when they got warrants using the Steele dossier which was paid for by Fusion GPS through Hillary's lawyers. Then there's that evidence that the FBI also used intelligence that the British intelligence agencies got from spying on Trump's campaign. Apparently it's legal for foreign countries to spy on us without warrants because of reasons.
If you do find out who makes Xanax please let me know. I've got an extra $5 to buy some stocks unless someone would like to front me some $$$$.
ETA. The NSA could have put this to bed before it started by releasing the proof that Russia did indeed hack into the DNC computers. My question is why hasn't Trump ordered them to do this? Does he have the authority to do so?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Here's a good article on this
Russia Gate is the new WMDs and people bought it. Again.,
Every Aspect of Russiagate is an Outright HOAX, Crafted by Paid Associates of the DNC, and Abetted by Deep State Russophobes and Their Whores in the Mainstream Media
Why didn't the FBI examine the DNC computers instead of just taking CrowdStrike's word that Russia hacked into the DNC computers? Starting an investigation without looking to see what the evidence was is malpractice of some kind.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Nobody knows what's going on with the investigation
And most especially anybody here who speaks with such damn certainty. If ever there was an investigation which needed to proceed outside of public scrutinity, this is it. Look at Muellers personal history, he is top notch (the opposite of Trump). Why is it so hard for people to give him a chance to complete his investigation and then let us know what he found??????????????
Beware the bullshit factories.
No, all the information
needs to be released to the public, the sooner the better.
Not that it would matter to people like you.
Government is supposed to be transparent. I can't believe that lefties on this site are now advocating for secret processes.
dfarrah
Mueller is top notch
alright, but not the way you mean it here. This guy also helped lie us into the Iraq war pushing that WMD bullshit. Top notch? Yes, a top notch deep state playa...
And really, why should the taxpayers be funding this shit to the tune of millions of dollars? For 2 years and nothing to show for it but a few "indictments" that will never see a court room?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Exactly right, Timmethy2.0!!
We need a return to the good ol' days of Star Chambers and Grand Inquisitors. The only way to coerce the full story out of these rascals is to bring back The Rack and the Iron Maiden, amirite?
Mueller is top notch, piece of shit
Sorry I must disagree, Mueller is only a top notch piece of shit. Mueller sent the FBI team to Iceland to conduct an illegal survelance operation to frame Julian Assange without any permission from the Icelandic government. Is that how top notch neighbors do it? Mueller testified to Congress about Iraq WMD and the threat of Al Queda working with Saddam Hussein. The what is called today 'faulty intelligence' came in part from Mueller and if there was anybody that could or should have known better it was him. He is as top notch as DWS, Kamala, Hillary, and Obama. If you are deep state.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
(nevermind)
Remember that Mueller is a deep state apparatchik
He shifted the PanAm flight 103 investigation toward Libya and then framed two Libyans (one of which was found innocent in a retrial and the other of which was returned to Libya in the deal in which Ghadaffi gave up his nuclear ambitions). He also very intentionally mislead Congress about Iraq's WMD. The Internet Research Agency indictments (which were based on Russian investigative journalism reports, not FBI snooping) were to screw over the North Korean summit. The Russia part of the Russia investigation is pure BS. If truth is of any value to Mueller, it is secondary to promoting the interests of the military, industrial, security complex. We can not expect a fair report from him. That being said, Trump is a crook and like many of the wealthiest Americans has almost certainly committed serious crimes. Trump fears indictment for shady business deals, not collusion with "Russia."
If Mueller comes up empty
Trump should dismantle 17 intelligence agencies for incompetance.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Well, why don't
you apply for jobs at these agencies and avail them of your superior talents.
Then maybe you can get Trump for them.
dfarrah
Careful dfarrah...
you're tiptoeing close to the line.
Well, the poster
just advocated for shutting down agencies with thousands of employees just because the Mueller probe may not provide the desired results.
The poster cannot possibly know the competence of the employees at these agencies.
I find searching for a crime is horrible on any side.
dfarrah
All that aside...
you're free to post what you will here, but you're not free to insult or ridicule other members. That is the line I speak of.
I'll lighten the mood
By admitting I forgot my snark tag.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Some things don't need snark tags
They are simply self evident.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Here's the turnout in New York
Here's video of an angry crowd protesting Sessions being fired.
Here's some people of the Resistance resisting.
I too wondered what other horrible things are happening in this country that all of the people protesting to protect Mueller could protest instead. That the UN poverty report wasn't even a blip on people's radar is very sad. And you are right that the government needs to step in to fix the homeless problem. Utah is doing just that in SLC where they have gotten hundreds of people off the streets and into housing. And Bezos of course could help by donating just one week or even one day of his income since he makes $246 million a day (hour?) and has made over $85 billion this year alone.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Yes, these people
are so pathetic, just like the women's March.
Apparently, Trump haters do not realize how instrumental Sessions was in Trump being elected and how much he promoted Trump's policies.
Their silence on important issues just demonstrates how phony they are and what bad losers they are.
And I don't want any of these types anywhere near levers of power.
dfarrah
wonder what else they could protest of value?
Yep this is the thing. Killing civilians in Yemen doesn't bring them out. Neither did Lybia or Syria. Or the environment, fossil fuel and big ag subsidies, no problemo amigo. Vote suppresion and election fraud, not a mention. No reaction. Nothing worth getting up over.
But a BS multi-year multi-million dollar phony investigation they can get all behind. whilst ignoring Obama and Hillary's mis-handling of classified data, letting Wall St. and Bush/Cheney off the hook, again, not issues to get up for. Phonies and sheeple.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
the German election of 1932
[video:https://youtu.be/HPXHRX8Q2hs]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Pretzel pasties were an idea of genius.
That is all.
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
I wish one *could* just stand up and storm out
of today’s Real World™ political theatre, disgustedly muttering, “Well! Talk about bad taste!”
Well stated! (nmi)
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
We must have Barbara Lee for Speaker
The only member of Congress to vote against giving Dubya the power to invade Afghanastan.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh_sxilhyV0]
Add your name if you live in the US and agree:
https://barbaraleeforspeaker.com/
Beware the bullshit factories.
Gawd no, Barbara Lee does not speak for me
another D-LongPastRetirement, Barbara Lee can stfu now. How many homeless in her district? Make no mistake, she is a member of the gutless D-WarParty like Bernie was. They are not interested in sanding the gears, obviously. Too old, I think that's why. I wanted Laura Wells for a change, but it's not my district. tough beans
D-Ignorance reigns over California like nothing I've ever seen before in my lifetime. The pathetic school system has done it's job, dumbing down everything for mass data consumption. Dumb de dumb dumb.
Hundreds protest Attorney General Matt Whitaker in Santa Rosa rally
I'm surprised Sean did not go baaah! at the end there, he is so perfectly sheep-like with those comments. Perfect!
amerika's coming attraction
don't drink the water and don't breath the air
just resist
~shrug~
good luck
What happened to CA?
I'm a socal native, ex-pat, now hiding in central Texas. It was sooooo progressive. Public education in the 1960's churned out mostly fairly well educated people. Now it takes years of college to get to the levels high school used to get us. Yet now this 'most progressive' state in the country keeps re-electing DiFi and Pelosi!?!?!?!?!? War hawks that whose resistance to Trump is to vote to give him 80 billion BILLION more than he asked for, for the War Department. Which is certainly not used for defense. But for war. Interventionist wars. Leaders of the Dem party in the progressive state. It was the peace party and place.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
Janet Napolitano happened to California
thanks, I really don't know first hand because I don't have children in the system. My neighbor currently home schools because she thought common core or whatever the thing is called now, was making her son dumber, not teaching him to think. Before that I helped raise a little guy all through his school years, but his parents chose a K-12 charter school to start, semi-public. meh He then blew through public high school, did well and went on to Seattle U. Some make it through okay.
Crapification of the UC system is on Janet Napolitano, running it like the DHS is not so smart, but it's profitable enough for her executive ass. D-Values profit before people, no surprise there.
I feel terrible about how the public school system is now, always voted for more money if there was the option. When I was "normal" I paid a lot of property taxes and kept an eye on the local schools, supported fundraisers and stuff. At some point the administrators made the teachers stop teaching. Heh, that's me punching up I guess, not really seeing the point of highly paid administrators. For what now? Not much, as far as I can tell. Nice pensions. Is Marshall Tuck still CA Superintendent? I don't know, I didn't vote for him either. lol
Have fun in Tejas, at least you are not in the Permian Basin, ground zero for US climate burners. I think mhagle is in the western part, thanks goodness she is doing what she does. Thanks everyone!
amerika's coming attraction
too many people
Marshall Tuck is an evil, wall street/charter school profiteer
I haven't checked but was really hoping the current superintendent, Tony Thurmond, could hang on. Tuck put some nasty, dirty, decietful attack ads out on Thurmond which immediately screamed Oligarch stooge.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Everyone in CA
is either 1) fencing expanding property values, or 2) struggling to pay rent.
And, like I said, there are a ton of people stranded here who can do neither 1) nor 2).
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
No, Barbara is still a good person with morals and convictions
It is actually possible to be that way and still be a long time Democrat. I think it's harder to be a decent person and a long time Republican given their overt bigotry and hate these days. I think she's the only former Black Panther in Congress. At least she was very active with their social programs for the hungry and poor. We need a speaker with experience getting legislation through Congress and Lee is a heck of a lot more of fighter for what's right than Pelosi.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Definition of treason...
“The betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.” That’s what I’m talking about. The GOP are treasonous bastards to a person.
They have completely dropped their hat with regards to any checks and balances. When they open their mouths, lies come out. That’s an overly broad claim to make, but true!
They would take away public schools, SS, Medicare, the ACA, and Medicaid if they thought they could get away with it. They don’t care about the idiots who vote for them. They come up with catchy phrases, and the Orange Blimp says they’ll be the party to protect pre-existing conditions, and it’s all BS!
Name just one good thing that the GOP has done for a poor, working or lower middle class person lately! Just one!
And the environment! They just want to rape, pillage and plunder it no matter if we get sick or die from the contamination!
They are supposed to represent us and make decisions that are in our best interests! They absolutely are traitorous....even if not legally.
Legal definition of treason
Here is the legal definition of treason according to the US Code.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
No one is defending the gop.
The goppers are what they are and we are on to them. The dims are just as bad - we have, of late, discovered that there is no difference between the two groups. (We are still reeling from this, but we'll get that wrinkle out of our panties in due time.)
If Meuller had found something, it would have presented itself months ago and then presented to us with great fanfare. This is a nothing-burger that the dims need to gin up to cover their own incompetence.
Those rallies are a waste of time. What is not a waste of time is revolution to completely change our system of government. Now THAT would be the protest rally to participate in.
Opinions in this comment are solely attributed to the comment author and are not a reflection of anything else in the world that has to do with anything anywhere, but yet, are important to the comment author.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
@Raggedy Ann If you are right,
If you are right, Raggedy Ann, and I think there is an excellent chance that you are, then the Mueller contrivance will fade away now that the Dems have begun to retake power and don't need Mueller as much anymore.
In much the same way, I expect the Caravan Hysteria to die down after it failed to serve up victory on Tuesday. OK. Maybe the republicans would have lost even more without their enraged base. IDK.
NYCVG
About the caravan ~
another gin-up for votes. FEAR FEAR FEAR! I'm sick of it and I'm sick of them - all of them.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
@Raggedy Ann emphasis on ALL
emphasis on ALL
NYCVG
About that caravan
Fear, fear, fear,
There's Muslim terrorists in that horde. And murderers, rapists, and pregnant women.
Meanwhile, another whacko white guy with a gun shoots up another place where people meet to have fun and try to forget about the shit going down inside this country!
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Fuggetabot that white guy.
He's one of us - a Murikan! If he wants to shoot up murikans, so be it. We just don't want any of those BROWN people thinkin' they can live, work, play, shoot, etc. in these great united states!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
They leapt to the legal definition of treason,
but I got and agree with your point. In fact, I defended it upstream before I saw your response here.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I challenge you to do the same
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Or for healh care.
Most of the dems object to a medicare or single payer model.
dfarrah
Jerry Brown, Fracker in Chief
last time I checked, Jerry Brown was a Democrat. Don't blame the GOP for D-Fracking the firestorm state. You can blame Jerry's dad for D-damming the state in to drought conditions so BigAg could rape more exports. GOP? "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Gov. Jerry Brown: Fracking Ban 'Doesn't Make a Lot of Sense'
...
If Jerry Brown Is So Green, Why Is He Allowing Fracking in California?
...
‘It’s literally drill, baby, drill’: Did Jerry Brown’s climate crusade give Big Oil a pass?
...
Fracking workers exposed to dangerous amounts of benzene, study says
That's they system, corrupt as it ever was. Pat Brown beget Reagan, don't be surprised when Newsom begets a Republican governor, that's just how it's designed to work out. Past is prologue.
---
I met the produce clerk from our market on a walk outside this morning, she asked "How's your breathing?" because she knows I walk and bike everywhere and the air is hazardous right now. I try not to imagine where the homeless go to escape it, or the wildlife. I am hoping to the gawds and gawdesses that it's not hecate or his stuff that I'm inhaling out there. HOPE
amerika's coming attraction
bohica back and forth
" The GOP are treasonous bastards to a person."
Do you realize how unhinged you sound?
dfarrah
dfarrah...
need I warn you again?
China tariffs
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Yesterday I was invited to attend one
here in this small western NC town. I told my friend I would think about it, but in my mind, I had no intention of attending. I see it as being pointless. First, if after nearly two years and millions of dollars spent, the best that Mueller could come up with is to indict some distant Russians for Facebook ads, something tells me that there is nothing there. Without the DNC server, we had zero proof that Russia even hacked it, let alone colluded with the Trump campaign to rig the election.
Meanwhile blatant election rigging occurred in the Democratic primaries and nothing happened. For example, a judge found that the supervisor of elections in Broward County Florida violated both state and federal election laws in 2016 when she immediately ordered the ballots destroyed. This same supervisor of elections is still serving in office and nothing has been done. And BTW, Broward County is home of DWS.
There is no doubt that there is some funny business in Trump's business and personal finances. Just as there probably is in many of our other politicians of both stripes in DC. But that was not the scope of the Mueller investigation. So for what outcome do all these protestors hope? President Pence? Be careful of what you wish for. As bad as Trump is, Pence will be worse, far worse.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Well stated! (nmi)
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
Obstruction of Justice
I don't need Mueller to tell me 45 is guilty of obstruction. He is doing everything Nixon did and more. This Whittacre asshat is only the latest attempt to kill the Mueller investigation.
It concerns me when people say there is no "evidence" of conspiring with the Russians. The reality is, we have no idea what evidence Mueller does or doesn't have. In particular, what testimony has been provided by people from the Trump campaign regarding meetings they have had.
I am not holding out hope that Mueller will provide enough evidence for impeachment. I don't look forward to a Pence Presidency either. But the lies and interference from Trump make the obstruction charge a slam dunk case. Same goes for emoluments clause violations.
Trump has normalized nazis and klansmen. Yeah I know, we have always had discrimination etc. But Trump has brought it out and made it acceptable and created policies that support it. For this alone, he needs to go.
Mike Pence is better?
Mike Pence is Christian dominionist from Indiana which was once one of the biggest strongholds for the KKK. The man breathes hatred and has proven it during his term as governor. Just because Pence is not openly bombastic does not make him any less dangerous. Jeremy Scahill of the Intercept did a good review of Mike Pence and his views on many subjects.
Pence is a very dangerous snake in the grass.
Mike Pence has had a close relationship with Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater. Erik Prince's sister is Betsy De Vos whose husband comes from the family that founded Amway.
Be careful what you wish for. Pence is a very scary man, especially if he becomes President.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
And yet I don't see
any of these types mobbing people out of restaurants or movies, they haven't gathered to protest the dem's victories like the lefties did, nor do I hear an outpouring of rage over the dems taking over the house. And they aren't showing up at dem's houses to spray paint, bang on the doors, and yell at night.
Hmmmm.
They aren't even in Broward County breaking windows where some obvious bs is going on with the vote counting.
dfarrah
Pence is dangerous, a snake in the grass
Some snakes are good to find in the grass. There’s a large black king snake that visits ours sometimes. They eat rattlesnakes, so I welcome him or her, and wish it would stay.
Rattlesnakes in the grass... no. That is very dangerous and frightening. Pence is a rattlesnake in the grass. I do not think he would be better than trump, and might well be even worse.
But I also think back to when shrub was president. It seems everyone wanted him impeached. But wasn’t Cheney arguably at least as bad as shrub if not worse? Cheney was a cold hearted mad man. But I don’t remember that being used as an argument against impeachment.
I would think that Impeachment of a president, whoever it is, should be based on whether or not said president did commit crimes that call for impeachment. Not on who the vp is and whether or not they’re likely to be a better or worse president.
I don’t know if trump has done anything worthy of impeachment. I’m not a lawyer and I haven’t spent time trying to filter all the propaganda from both teams, red and blue, to form an opinion on it. I think it’s likely he has, but if I had to bet I’d put my money on no impeachment. That’s just a gut feeling, it won’t happen. I could be wrong. But either way, I feel uncomfortable with the idea of vp pence even being a factor in whether it happens or not.
Still, it’s good to remember that Pence IS a dangerous rattlesnake in the grass, and getting trump out and him in won’t be anything to celebrate if it were to happen.
re: impeachment
I posted below some information about impeachment. I think we all should consider what goes into the process and how it can be used. We need to think carefully before we start calling for impeachment of any President. I do not take impeaching any President lightly.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I didn't say Pence was better
But Trump is guilty, it's provable and he needs to go.
Along with his whole Cabinet,
at least half of Congress (both houses), and at least five Supreme Court judges.
Nice work if you can get it.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Can you point to
any specific actions that Trump has done to obstruct?
Mueller has gone on a huge fishing expedition in search of a crime.
His 'report' will likely have a lot of innuendo for your types to use to convince your already convinced selves that Trump 'colluded' (not a crime anyway) with Russia and changed the results of an election.
dfarrah
@dfarrah
- Firing AG Sessions. The only complaint ever uttered by Trump of his performance was recusing himself thereby making him worthless to Trump.
- Appointing Whitacre who has already stated the Mueller investigation is out of bounds, Marbury v Madison was poorly decided and subscribes to the unitary executive theory. Trump claimed he never spoke to Whitacre EVER. This claim was made a few weeks after he said he knows him well.
- Trump admitted firing Comey because of the "Russia thing"
It's easy to say, yeah well that one thing isn't enough to prove obstruction. But you have to be really out to lunch to not recognize that Trump is increasingly desperate to obstruct the investigation and cover up key facts (like Jr was just chatting about adoption at the Trump Tower meeting).
The insulting approach just undermines otherwise sound arguments
I’m referring to the tendency to insert gratuitous phrases like
You were doing fine until just recently, when more and more you started letting your irritation turn into personal verbal attacks on your conversation partner of the moment.
My strong request as a moderator would be to knock it off.
Do you think those Nazi's will "go"
with him? Hardly. Sadly, this country has been pretty much fascist since damned near inception. While I personally would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to be able to blame it all on Trump and Repugnants that is not the right answer and it never was. While they play us with all this idiotic Mueller shit, the world burns. But do you see ANY Democrat standing up to that?
As for whatever crimes Trump committed, and I'm sure there are more than a few, if those really rose to charges fit to Impeach him surely Mr Mueller would have done his job and released that by now? How long should we let this sham go on? And what in the end will it actually accomplish? Whatever crimes Trump committed I'm very sure they aren't unique to Trump. Look at that whole NYT "expose" on his family and their tax fraud - where did that go? Any indictments coming from that? Nope, because THEY ALL DO IT and they will never bring him down using what they all do and think they are entitled to do.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
@lizzyh7 I agree. Republicans
I agree. Republicans and Trump didn't create the klan and nazis. But what he did do was champion their cause, emboldening them to increase their violent attacks and grow their membership. Trump is proud to say he is a nationalist and we all know he left out the word "white" because it would prove inconvenient.
Trump is acting guilty as hell
We need to get to the bottom of this for reasons of Constitutional crisis.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Impeaching Trump
will get you President Pence. How do you feel about that?
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
With you protest on the homeless, but really, this argument
I mean, isn't that situational ethics? One of 'reality based ' type of arguments that I never could hang with at dk.
Nobody here at c99 wants Pence, but you know that.
Pence is a different kind of horror. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-ask-again-do-you-want-pence_us_59...
However, if we don't impeach, we might as well go with what Big Al has suggested and do away with the presidency . There were be little chance of curbing executive power after that. None. The Empty Suit left us open to that.
Prof Tribe argued this last year.
'Our system of government' is shit of course. But uh, by the way, the fcker may start a nuclear war, obstructs the climate crisis, on and on and on.
Roots Action lines out in much more detail the arguments for impeachment and the process to make it happen:
1,410,297
people and counting have signed their names to the campaign to Impeach Trump Now.
As of 11:29 am EST, November 9, 2018
Will we really survive the rest of this term and another term, which will surely happen if the Dims don't miraculously change?
Impeachment will never happen, but of course it is the moral thing to do.
Won't happen. We are truly fcked in so many ways.
I am 69. Guess I will probably do like so many others, 'eat drink and and be merry, for tomorrow we may die.'
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
"However, if we don't impeach, we might as well go with what"
Trump's obstruction in view for all to see; don't need the "Russian connection," although Konstantin Kilimnik may be a jack-in-the-box; more importantly, as impeachment is a political tool when does one use it? imho, i say now. Trump has just insulted losing republican representatives and some of them may entertain supporting articles of impeachment during the lame duck as to get the ball rolling; force the articles to the floor; raise holly hell, splatter ink to the four corners of the world before Trump and the money behind him have time to mount propaganda campaigns against the new democratic Chair-people coming in January.
The democrats have the momentum at present; given the voter suppression tactics put in place across the country since 2010, this election was indeed a wave as i've read the gerrymandered handicap was around five to one.
I welcome the protests and again reiterate that proof of Russian conspiracy is not necessary; obstruction happened and is happening.
As you say, if not impeached, beware the Executive in future, too.
Now, back to reality, smiley; who's leading the House? That must change as well; how about at the end of this month?
Will we survive????
Oh no, we might all be dead in few weeks because Trump!!!
I think it is so amusing how the left is acting just like the right did when Clinton was elected. I recall how an office mate came in the next day after the presidential election and proclaimed that Clinton should be impeached. (and I'm sitting there thinking what an idiot this person was).
You're older than me - you should recall all of the hysteria on the right about Clinton. Well, you sound exactly like them.
dfarrah
i don't know how old you are, dfarrah; but i've followed
do and JB, for many years, more than a decade, and i can speak to their wisdom and generous efforts to improve this plight of ours and while i'm at this, when it comes to ageism, we old 'codgers' understand the power of protest, we lived it to stop a war and improve equality and it took a long time in the streets, decades, burning cities, as well.
Don't tell me protests don't work; they can if they grow.
I don't see how your comment
has any relevance to what I posted.
But if you are convinced that protests are effective, then why not protest something worthwhile to protest?
dfarrah
"You're older than me - you should recall all of the hysteria"
Good day to you.
Oh well.
You imply that I am age discriminating.
I am almost 61. And I do recall all the hysteria over Clinton's election. In fact, many of those critical of Clinton said the exact same things about him as the dems are saying about Trump.
Do you recall any of this? Do you recall Time magazine that had a small picture of Clinton with the title, "The Incredible Shrinking Presidency?"
Do you recall how people would say that every word that comes from Clinton is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'? Do you recall the ridicule heaped on Clinton when he said, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is" in his testimony re: impeachment?
It's as if history is truly repeating itself with the sides switched.
dfarrah
Might want to look around.... this never happened re Clinton
h/t to Evening Blues
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
The fallacy here is seeing European leaders as sweetness & light
Heiko Maas is a weasel whose preferred response to fringe opinion on the Web is to abolish freedom of speech on the Internet entirely.
And the Süddeutsche Zeitung is as “reliable” — neocon, neolib, globalist — as the present-day New York Times and the Washington Post (hint: that’s not a compliment).
I also suspect the ruling elite in Europe
Along with their own politicians have their own agenda. Taking their words as some referendum on the "Truth" makes as much sense as blindly listening to American media's narrative.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
It's not really a question of what might happen -
(given that the odds of impeaching Trump with a Republican Senate in power are very low and that you might have a better chance of defeating Trump in the November 2020 election) -- but rather it's a question of what you want to happen. My locus of desire goes to human beings and their desires to lead less painful lives.
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
Keep whipping up the
hysteria.
dfarrah
We are in far more danger now
that the Dems have control of the House. Impeachment is possible for the reasons noted above, in that the Establishment Repubs have been given the third finger publicly for not supporting Trumps whims.
The Senate needs only a handful of crossovers to meld with the Dems. to bring on impeachment.
I don't think the Corporate Democrats can visualize a Pence administration in their blind hatred of Trump.
A slowly emerging theocracy will be our future, with prayer returned to schools as a start. Roe/Wade repealed. Womens equalties stunted or reversed. Bible verses on every bomb, missle, and bullet.
Eventually, the roundup of LBGTs, trade unionists, the homeless, and leftists, probably even Jewish leftists.
1932 indeed.
Gawd I hope I'm so wrong.
But, many of these monsters actually believe they are doing God's work.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Good points, one can argue that, as you say:
"a slowly emerging theocracy will be our future" is here with this appointment of Whitaker; the chief prosecutor of the US of A.
Deep do-do we are in; sure wish some good leadership could find a way forward.
votes on impeachment
It takes a majority of the house to initiate articles to impeachment, but it takes 2/3 of the Senate to actually impeach the President. Impeaching Trump will be a wasted effort.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I do hope you're right.
But I truly believe there are enough establishment Repubs who would rather have Pence take over.
Remember, Trump beat out 16 of their best. They gotta be smartin' over that still.
Just sayin'.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Articles of Impeachment
Let's look at what impeachment is first. Impeachment in the United States is a two part process for the removal of a public official. The first part of the process is similar to an indictment and the second part of the process is the trial after the indictment. So the first part of the process for impeaching the President or other high government official would before the House of Representatives to charge the President with whatever crime they believe has been committed. The second part of the process is a trail before the Senate on those charges.
There are three broad categories under which articles of impeachment may be filed. They are treason, bribery, and/or high crimes and misdemeanors.
As I posted earlier in this thread, treason is clearly defined under the United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381.
The second charge is that of bribery. Bribery can be legally defined as the following:
The third category for impeachment involves high crimes and misdemeanors. This is a very nebulous term for which there is no clear definition.
Grounds for impeachment are not always clearly defined. While it is legal process, there is much about an impeachment that is clearly a political process. For this reason, an impeachment of a sitting President is something that should not be taken lightly.
This article provides a great discussion on impeachment.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Is Russia our enemy?
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
The ACA....
Is it what we wanted, NO!!! Am I still pissed at Obama and Dems about this, YES!!!
Despite that, 10’s of millions more people got access to medical care as a result of the ACA... it saves lives!!! It has helped more than it harmed.
I can’t think of a single GOP policy with a similar outcome.
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