Am I the ONLY one who misses the Space Program?

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only one who misses the Space Program as it was. Sure it wasn't perfect, but dammit, that little ray of hope for the future that our government used to have was marvelous. What happened to it?

Used to be the Republicans supported the HELL out of the Space Program. NASA was a big friend, and a symbol of everything that America could accomplish. What happened to that? My personal theory is that the Religious Right finally got their say about how we needed to prepare for Jesus. Because you'll never hear a peep from a conservative about how we need to invest in the future anymore. Or maybe it was just the bankers who saw a profitable, long-term investment in growth, and instead saw only a piggy bank to loot.

SF used to love the idea of it. What happened to that? We got caught up in rugged individualism, same as the rest of America, and failed to see that a huge program where everybody participated could benefit everyone. Maybe it's because of the Trek effect, but I swear every time you go online now, you can easily find yet another article condemning Trek as communist. Only not the NEW ones, because they're back to that rugged individual mythology. Sad as it is, it's just a reflection of what we value in a society, like all literature, and that collective ship has sailed. Now suddenly, I have a great idea running through my head about a possible SF story... "The People's Starship". Ah, for another day I guess.

I love being a liberal, but sometimes, I'm shocked at how limited our scope is. Yes, it is VITALLY important to save our planet. I think the best way to do that is to have a bunch more places to have in order to take a bit of the pressure off Earth. Why Mine the planet, when it's out there much cheaper? Why fight over limited energy, when out in space it's raining soup and we don't have a fucking bucket? Why pollute the world with Nuclear fire, when out there we have a way to dispose of the refuse with merely a shove in the right direction?

I miss the days of space launches: Of technology that didn't just serve to distract, and transfer wealth, but rather created it for all of us. I miss inspiration and a drive to succeed that didn't involve blowing each other up. Maybe I'm just old. Maybe I am trapped in the wrong generation of thought. But I miss the days when our future didn't just focus on what could go wrong. I miss the days when a scientist who achieved something wasn't immediately castigated for his clothing sense. I miss a future that accepted the possibility of the unforeseen with the confident statement: "That's why we've got smart people going! They'll figure it out if something goes wrong!"

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Hs2AQwDgA]

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TheOtherMaven's picture

There is no other suitable real estate in this solar system (not even an affordable rehab job), and the stars are much too far away. Science fiction has been relegated to what it started as - "fairy tales for grownups" - when it isn't used as a funhouse mirror for our dystopian society and what else could Go Horribly Wrong.

Senator Proxmire and Presidunce Reagan had the last laugh on all the rest of us.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Cheap enough so that we can do it while still funding the MIC.

Sorry, that's my personal rant, and probably a topic for another diary. Read so many books on the subject that posit the exact opposite theory, which is that any space program would pay for itself a million times over, IF we would just freaking INVEST in it. Problem is, it's a long term, guaranteed occasional failure investment...

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was the first one I thought of. Him and his stinking "Golden Fleece Awards". Ugh.

IMO it was the corporatists who killed it, not the religious right. The corporatists had no use for basic research and exploration ... they'd prefer those tax dollars go places like the MIC where it's easier to skim profits. Plus, NASA was high-profile and corporatists don't like press exposure.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Course I have a great deal of hatred for both groups. The RR is my enemy on almost all social issues, and the Corporatists on almost all economic. And they work together SO often...

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I attribute Proxmire of giving NASA that shot of plutonium giving it a slow, agonizing death. While he had the D behind his name, I count him as a Rep.

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Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

Is it the Star Trek goal " to boldly go" etc. and begin exploring and colonizing space?

I'm afraid that it has more to do with satellites, star wars, weapons programs, satellite eavesdropping etc.. Not that it's all bad - weather satellites are great, enhanced communications is great, etc. Humans just seem to be attracted to malevolent uses of technology and incapable of restraining themselves.

I just saw Gravity for the first time last night. One of those "and you thought you had a bad day" movies.

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" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

detroitmechworks's picture

Of course, that's coming from somebody who totally will admit to "Drinking the Kool-Aid" on Space Exploration.

I guess that I see people as needing a place to be able to build and grow, or else that energy turns inwards towards destruction. It's not about "to Boldly Go" as much as it is "To Get My own Apartment."

Course, that's just MY opinion, but I see a lot of untapped energy that is being turned to limit human activity when it could be turned outward to grow it.

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Way back, I wanted to be a colonist on another planet. It seemed to be a realistic possibility at one time.

Now, given what we've learned about ecology, and how interconnected life on this planet is, that may be even more of a limiting factor than the mechanics of getting to suitable (?) planets.

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detroitmechworks's picture

if we don't try. Even if it involves freaking building Universe Ships in order to get to another solar system, I say we go for it. Smile

Course I'm also in your school of thought, and don't like to give up on a dream just because somebody claims it's impossible. I'll suffer the bruises from trying before I buy that one.

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Gotta get out there.

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kharma's picture

especially when

somebody claims it's impossible

. When someone says it's impossible the first thing I want to do is find out how to prove it wrong. Idiots over there have been telling us how it's impossible for Sanders since last October and that just makes me fight harder. They were wrong then and could be now. Naysaying glass-half-empty debbie-fucking-downers.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

detroitmechworks's picture

pisses me off just as much as physical. Mostly because it's based off the same crap. Demands that the other side submit.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

We did it, and then there weren't any further goals, and pretty soon there weren't any more "Commies" either. So we scaled back and back and back under the "guidance" of "pragmatists" who told us we had to concentrate on things we could do. Blum 3

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detroitmechworks's picture

Course, I was reading "Air & Space" during the 80's, went to Space Camp as a kid, etc... So I had a different idea of what it was about. Mostly the idea there was, "Hell if I know what we're aiming for in the end, but it's AWESOME!!!!!"

Ever notice how Pragmatists keep selling the same shit sandwich and claim that it's the only thing on the menu?

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Pricknick's picture

The issue I have is the costs of putting humans into space. The idea that we must populate other planets and systems as way to insure the human race is insane. If we can't take care of what we have, we should perish. Not pollute other places.
Exploration using machines is much more cost effective. When it comes right down to it, there are many other, more important things we need to concentrate on. Like saving this planet.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

detroitmechworks's picture

But then, I'm a bit of an idealist who things we can learn from the mistakes we made here in order to do better next time. I totally agree that we do need to save this planet, and getting our priorities straight can do a lot to do that. And I honestly don't see what's so insane about wanting to go other places. Some humans will always seek out other shores, etc. It's an insanity that's part of what we are, IMHO.

I disagree on using machines exclusively because I believe that there will always be something we can't plan for. At that point, if nobody's there to fix it, the problem won't get fixed.

But, Even though I disagree with you, THANK you for voicing your disagreement with me. As always, helps me refine what I think.

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I was a sophomore in high school when Sputnik was launched. That reinforced my decision to pursue a career in engineering. I completed a tough undergraduate education in a program at Cornell called "Engineering Physics" and my graduate education was largely financed by a NASA grant obtained by my advisor. In those days, a career in what is now called STEM was regarded as almost a patriotic duty if one had the skills necessary to succeed. That all changed with the collapse of the Soviet Union. I was fortunate to find a job after graduation with a large multinational corporation not associated with the defense industry. Born at the right time, I'm now retired with an actual pension. The internet allows me to observe rather easily what our modern society is morphing into. The downsizing of the space program is just the most obvious consequence of the change in direction.

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detroitmechworks's picture

I've been disillusioned about NASA for years, ever since I learned that 1/3 of the shuttle launches were "DOD Classified" payloads.

It is a shame, and as an English Major/History Major, It's a very distressing direction to see a society going in. Not like this hasn't happened BEFORE...
We know this dance, but it always takes us by surprise.

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advances of the 60's was worth the space program. Not to mention that computer on your wrist would be as big as a house. Without the space program we'd still have all the conveniences of 1957.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Want to cut it so much. Their morals are still there, anyway...

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There is still a space program.
What got cut was a manned space program. And yes, I miss that too.

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detroitmechworks's picture

But I admit to being a filthy HUMAN supremacist. It doesn't count unless you have a guy planting a flag.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx5G-GOS1k]

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But underfunded and cobbled together from off-the-shelf obsolete and discarded technologies from other industries. Remember when it was reversed?

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detroitmechworks's picture

Nowadays than a serious effort. Which is kinda sad.

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And Orbital, and ULA.
Smile
Space x is in my family, so I try to never miss a launch online.

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detroitmechworks's picture

But dammit, I believe in national COLLECTIVE work on a subject which should matter to everyone. Smile

Yes, I know my red Hammer and Sickle underwear is showing.

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Shahryar's picture

had a great scrapbook with photos of Redstones, Agenas, Nikes, Junos, and such. School would stop when there'd be a manned launch, starting with that first Alan Shepard suborbital flight. We were proud(well, I was anyway) that one of the original astronauts went to our local high school. That was Wally Schirra. And that made him my favorite astronaut, if such a thing makes any sense. It doesn't any more but I guess it does for a kid. There were only seven of them so we knew them all, well before their flights.

Ok, cutting this short. Yes, I miss the space program. The first moon landing was almost 47 years ago and the last was 43 years ago. I don't think we're going anywhere now unless someone invents an efficient, safe new drive.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Unless of course it's a weapon system.

What pisses me off is that they were actually talking about a HIGH altitude Dirigible system, and my first thought was "Hey! Less Delta V needed for Orbit!"

Of course what does the MIC think of? Drone carrier.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5mLjKI968g]

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Shahryar's picture

Was just reading an article about the different compositions of different areas of Pluto and chuckled at some of the names like Picard Mons and Cthulu Regio.

Great work, place namers!

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michelewln's picture

I discovered Science Fiction at 8 years old. I have always been fascinated by space. We really need a viable space program. The benefits for man here on Earth are worth the money we spend.

Every time something new is announced like gravity waves or the photos of Pluto and Charon I get as excited as that 8 year old reading her first science fiction book.

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A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world. Oscar Wilde

detroitmechworks's picture

What I find hilarious is that his future always posited that we would go to the oceans as well as a "Dress Rehearsal" for space. Funny how the governments of the world totally abandoned that idea too. Sigh.

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Szaephod's picture

That's one key to the problem. The "easy" stuff has been done, in a way. First man to orbit, first to the Moon, first on the Moon. First spacecraft to visit Mars (Mariner), First to see the Outer Giants (Voyager - which I worked on). Now (except for the recent New Horizons to Pluto) we're refining existing knowledge, not seeing "for the first time," such as Galileo, back to Jupiter (which I also worked on).

Granted, we can send lots of s/c to some of the rocky litter about the solar system, as we're doing, but it's pretty small stuff, and the rocks all look pretty much as expected - now the comets all look unique, some of the pictures we've taken of them are pretty wild, and Deep Impact (I worked on that one too) actually smacked one.

So, we've done the "easy stuff."

Additionally, NASA has learned how really, really, really friggin dangerous some of the stuff we used to do was - when we were re-engineering the next manned missions to the Moon, and trying to just re-do what Apollo did, the current safety standards in the Agency made the effort just too vastly expensive - just to repeat what was done before. And this really isn't overkill - in talking to some of the engineers that designed the landing system for the LEM, it was simply not able to handle much in the way of contingencies - it HAD to work, it scared the crap out of me, how many risks were taken. Another example, the Apollo capsules were extremely thin-shelled. If there had been a Solar Storm of the magnitude that happened between Apollo 15 and 16, it would have killed the crew - maybe not immediately, but soon. So, the Orion is much heftier. And on and on.

We've matured. Space is really really really big. And space is really really really hard. There's still a space program - don't be too hard on the robotic probes they are really extensions of us. When Ray Bradbury was at JPL during the Viking mission, and asked by a reporter what he thought it would be like to have humans on the surface of Mars, he pointed hotly at the Viking lander mock-up and said "We do have humans on the surface of Mars!"

Cheers!

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

detroitmechworks's picture

budget they get. However, I still think we can do so much MORE, if they'd just take the manacles off.
I've never been under the impression that space was easy, but I also think that we are getting a little confined in what we think of as possible.
I'm a big fan of looking at a problem from other angles. (Not that I think that NASA only thinks about it from one angle, but I do think institutional inertia has set in a bit.)

And honestly, if it's the Easy stuff, why don't we do it more often? I mean, the first planes were INSANELY dangerous too, but we kept refining them, incrementally, instead of demanding a HUGE leap forward in the technology. Just my way of thinking I guess, but I'd rather fly in a biplane than wait 80 years to make certain we've got the safety rails on the loading ramp for a theoretical ULTRAsafe Biplane.

Thanks for commenting, BTW. I'm just really enthusiastic about what we can do, and want to see more enthusiasm and effort given to the program than what crumbs politicians deign to drop our way.

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In terms of expanding knowledge of the universe, the Hubble telescope is in a class by itself. Also, I am glad to see an essay and comments which stray a bit from politics.

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Szaephod's picture

Well, as I said, to do it in a way that doesn't risk lives horribly, is what NASA was trying to do with Bush's Constellation program, but it was too expensive to re-do Apollo, to current standards. And yes, NASA is over cautious, and ossified. But being gun-shy about killing people is good - I know you're a Vet, so I don't mean anything by that other than the obvious.

NASA tried faster-better-cheaper, and we crashed two probes on Mars. End of game. After each shuttle disaster, the program stood down for two years - the losses in progress were astonishingly large. In the end, it probably doesn't pay to take the risks, because when the inevitable disaster strikes, the toll is high. They say about "faster-better-cheaper" you can have two of the three, but not all three.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

detroitmechworks's picture

to explain what you meant. No disrespect was meant in my response, and I hope it didn't come across that way.

I agree that deaths are to be avoided if possible, but at the same time, Hoover Dam would never have been built in our current safety paranoia state. I guess my point is that yes, if we can avoid casualties, GREAT, but it seems like we're in the "Never Try, Never Fail" mentality recently.

And I'm totally with you on the faster better cheaper thing. (I recall it as the old contractor dilemma. You can have it Good, Fast Or Cheap, Pick 2. Course I remember reading that in a Clarke book and it stuck with me pretty well. I remember the correct answer was always GOOD and FAST.)

So, I guess I'm just of the school of thought that we need a massive injection of capital into all aspects of infrastructure, and I consider the Space Program to be intellectual Infrastructure.

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Szaephod's picture

No offense perceived or received.

But let's circle around to a keystone of the progressive agenda: Global Climate Destabilization.

You want space adventure, you're gonna get it, IMHO.

I'm not at all a fan of geo-engineering, but I'm afraid we are globally hurtling toward a destabilization precipice, where the only options will include space-based emergency remedies. It's going to get pretty hot pretty soon, literally and figuratively. It's going to make the Manhattan project look like a train set.

Fasten your seatbelt it's going to be bumpy ride.

Cheers!

Oh, and let me share one more thing on space; it was an interview with Buckminster Fuller a few months before he died. He was making a last round of speeches on humankind, space, engineering, life, the universe and everything.

It was a radio interview, on NPR, the old pre-dumbed down NPR, but even then they weren't beneath a condescending treatment of an aging and frail intellectual giant. It was at once the very best and very worst interview I've ever heard.

The reporter asked: 'As a boy, did you ever imagine what it would be like to be in space?'

There was an ominous silence.

And then in a guttural growl, Fuller responded: 'I never cease to be amazed at the utter ignorance rampant in the journalistic profession. We ARE in space, where the HELL do you think we are???

The rest of the interview was, well, uncomfortable.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

detroitmechworks's picture

We're probably heading for the Civilization: Beyond Earth future.

Here's hoping that ability to learn and flexibility is as useful in the future as it was in the past, since it's really the only thing I've got going on. Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

you won't know what you can get away with without killing someone. If we never took a chance of dying we'd still be living in caves. And it isn't like thegov't is above killing folks. If Viet Nam and Iraq doesn't convince you, consider Medicaid in red states.

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Jazzenterprises's picture

both fact and fiction. The dismantlement of NASA is one of our nation's saddest testaments to the general reduced funding of the sciences. However I am glad they are hanging in there, if ever the day comes we regain our sanity.

I really liked how they moved to telescopes and robotics in the interim, science marches on!

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Progressive to the bone.

detroitmechworks's picture

some liberal pundits. They're so obsessed with their ideals and what EVILS science has done in the hands of awful people that they fail to see the good it has done as well.

It's a Promethean thing, after all. Knowledge is neither good or bad, just the uses we put it to.

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