Jimmy Dore on Alex Jones in Particular, and 1A in General

This image has NOTHING to do with the facts at hand or the story that follows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LlMmL6Ylk

This, then, is Jimmy's first reaction to the wave of Alex Jones banning. I've heard hours of him talking about this, both on his show and on Rogan, so his position is clear, and IMHO thought-provoking.

He is arguing that because de-facto monopolies such as Twitter, YouTube, FaceBook etc (and "etc" is quite pregnant) have so much power to influence the world and events in real time that they must be considered monopolies and "commoditized" and regulated. "etc" is pregnant: what about DKos? What about 4chan? What about c99%? There are serious implications for governmental regulation of defacto monopolies: traditionally, phones, electricity, water, garbage pick-up, etc are often (always in some cases and rarely in others) private enterprises that get their charter from the government. The Federal Government had to break up Ma Bell, but first they had to simply regulate them - deeply and often - for a hundred years. Why? Because the technology barrier was too high for the next up-and-comer as the lines were mostly already installed in big cities, and also because you didn't want several contractors putting in competing telephone poles throughout the American cities. Too much digging, too many wires. So the FCC (I assume) stepped in. The argument is that the internet is host to 5 or 6 (or 600, who knows?) monopolies whose technology barrier is already prohibitive.

reductio ad absurdum:

"Why don't people like Alex Jones just demand TV air time?" I don't have a snappy answer to that. That's why I'm not rich and famous like Jimmy Dore, I guess. Or Alex Jones.

Free-market types believe that someone who owns his site has the right to ban people he finds objectionable. Think Markos Moulitsas; I'm pretty sure he would object to government regulation of TOS. So, we don't have to go very far to find that opinion being held by members of the left.

So, if you aren't informed of Dore's stance on this, please, by all means, watch this video, or google your own, and tell me your opinion. I think it is important, even as Brett Kavanaugh is being fought over.

I once took the Clifton Strengths Finder Test. My scores came back that my #1 Strength is Input, so no surprise I haven't made up my mind yet. But Dore makes a compelling case here.

Let me know what you think. Thanks!!

P.S. @jack still hasn't banned Alex Jones..

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Bluesee's picture

I am referring to the YouTube video link to his show, NOT the picture, which is pretty bad (first time I saw it), when I say "this.. is the first reaction to banning Alex Jones" in the opening sentence.

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Bernie is a win-win.

travelerxxx's picture

Not sure I have the answer to this, as there are multiple viewpoints and considerations.

I have wondered this: Pretend it's 1953. Newspapers rule. Laws prohibiting this notwithstanding, imagine that one wealthy newspaper magnate gained control over nearly 100% of the other newspapers in the nation. Imagine now that this private owner prohibited all but certain political views. How quickly do you suppose anti-trust legislation would be brought to bear against said owner? I offer that it wouldn't take long at all, at least not in 1953. That monopoly would be broken up quickly and laws installed to preclude the future occurrence of such again.

Now image it's 1966. Another wealthy media magnate, this time in the realm of television, manages to gain total control over (at that time) the three US television networks. This magnate unilaterally makes the decision that no anti-Vietnam-war views will be aired. None at all. Would have this occurred, parts of the nation would have likely seen demonstrations and riots like none before it. If no law existed to stop such monopolizing of television media, such would have been forthcoming immediately to stop the monopolization and preclude any such re-occurrence.

Today, newspapers are slowly dying, losing their influence. Television consists of hundreds of networks and channels, none able to maintain any monopoly nor ability to sway the public with a single viewpoint. That there may be a cabal of ownership espousing a particular view is a distinct possibility - witness the orchestrated chorus of coverage gained by Donald Trump during the GOP primary. Of course, we know now - having read the Clinton and Podesta emails - that the Clinton camp was behind the Trump primary-run publicity ... and saw how that strategy backfired spectacularly.

The Internet Giants were part of the Trump primary push as they allowed their bandwidth to carry it. Now, they are part of another scheme being pushed, in large part, by the same group who concocted the massive publicity for Donald Trump during the primaries. This, of course is the evidence-free Russia!Russia!!RUSSIA!!! propaganda scheme. Part and parcel of the RUSSIA!!!-baiting is the suppression of dissident speech, already well controlled in print and television. Up to this point, dissident voices have had a platform using the bandwidth of the Internet Giants, but now we see how quickly and efficiently that can be stopped.

The Internet Giants are quite close to, or already have arrived at, the status of monopolies. Most Americans are getting their "news" from Internet sources. The danger of them being able to totally control various narratives is evident to many of us. However, in today's environment, I cannot imagine that any anti-trust effort would be successful. All factions are attempting to gain hegemonic control over the narratives and none wish to hamper their own prospects, no matter how unlikely.

Who would bring anti-trust efforts to bear against the Internet Giants? Frankly, there are few politicians altruistic enough to have my trust in this matter. Further, any effort would likely mirror the massive divides in the nation, causing even more discord.

I have no solution, but we damn sure have a problem.

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Bluesee's picture

@travelerxxx Yes, it is hard not to be glued to the TV set sometimes. Free market solutions lead to two things: innovation and monopoly. One can call the first unequivocally good and the second just as bad.

I was in Coos Bay last week (beautiful place!). Of course my son and his wife shop at Wal-Mart. Yeah. I checked. A 20-lb bag of charcoal (wups, I meant 15.4 lb) cost $6.89 in Wal-Mart and $11.99 at the local grocery store. You cannot win there. Of course when Wal-Mart is the only source for miles, up goes the cost of a bag of charcoal!

So do you agree with Jimmy? Wink

Thanks for your response.

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travelerxxx's picture

@Bluesee

Yes, I pretty much find myself in agreement with Jimmy most of the time. My quibbles with him are relatively minor ones.

As far as TV, I broke that habit in high school. I had no time to watch it and, other than occasional views, haven't been back. Also, I watched this TV program "The Prisoner" back in the day. After its run was finished (12 or 13 episodes was all there ever were), I couldn't watch regular TV; nothing else compared to that show.

Coos Bay! OMG! Haven't been there since the very early 80's! Beautiful area!

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Bluesee's picture

@travelerxxx It sure is man, it really is! Still haha!

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Bernie is a win-win.

That's what I think, have always thought. People watch so much YouTube they forget how to think for themselves, become useless couch warriors.

Burning charcoal? WTF! Please don't. How 'bout read some science literature and stop heating the climate for your holiday pleasures. Why not make that tiny sacrifice? Don't answer, I've already been told by the democratic majority, STFU (drive cars to WalMart and buy crap, that's the system) Nope, lol.

There are plenty of books, magazines and other dead tree word holders that don't break our constitutional right to privacy. Too bad the founders never considered digital advertising, elections, marketing, propaganda, blah blah blah. Or maybe they did? heh I mean, out of the brains of wealthy white men comes a lot of sick shit, women are complicit. good luck

and another thing! (you asked for it)
Don't rely on jagoff comedians telling you what to think, no matter how entertaining. It's an oppressive distraction in my view. Why are "thinking people" even talking about Alex Jones? clickety-click! Page views for profit that's why. get real

dopamine click addict
KILL YOUR TELEVISION
Think For Yourself

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Bluesee's picture

@eyo Thanks, I try to.

MPK_Books_2018.jpg

Do you think I am wasting my time trying to make sense of this "may you live in interesting times" event?

I'm not sure what you are getting at, partially.

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Bernie is a win-win.

White flag the 3rd's picture

The problem is patience, banning anything brings attention to it. Yes, I agree with Jimmy but what to do? Probably, Alex Jones received a spike of attention, now is in a precipitous drop.
I recall watching The Rachel Maddow Show when her guest was Rand Paul. She was baiting him into agreeing a shop owner has the right to ban a black person from sitting at the counter. Rand agreed, the owner has that right.
The logic being, over time the competition who would allow all people in would eventually attract most of the business; hopefully putting the bigoted business into bankruptcy.
Free market capitalism should produce that outcome if people are more selfish then racist in this case. The all inclusive business could afford to lower it’s prices compared to the bigoted one, drawing more frugal people.
The reasons I am not worried about it is patience, these platforms will turn into echo chambers. We are talking about it here, it’s extremely difficult to fully ban anything in this technological age.
The people still have a voice, Trump could have never won without a pretty fair election system, so that’s comforting; albeit the result for some.
There’s your real free speech right there, the questionable things Trump says. Again, patience. How many ideologs would like to ban his twitter account?
I too wonder, while growing up, how much propaganda I was exposed to.
How many free thinkers, alternative ideas and opposing viewpoints did I not get to consider because they were relegated into the abyss by the editors?
Patience and don’t worry, time is speeding up. Technological advancements occur with accelerated frequency, to fast to control.
People are different, left and right, lopsided news results in an echo chamber.
There is money to be made in providing the alternative view a platform and don’t we make money over all else?
Winston Churchill had it right when he said:
“Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities.”
I take this 99% literally, I don’t know if all here do. I like that they seem to be critical of Hillary as well as The Donald but I don’t “Feel the burn” Is that going to be O.K?
All eyes on the flag and we are united.

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