John McCain - Let us not glorify famous creeps
Its one thing to speak cliches about loss when someone dies; it is completely different to try to rewrite history to make a bloodthirsty warmonger into someone who should be praised and emulated.
While many leftists are trying to push back against the glorification of McCain, I think the correct approach is best made by Caitlin Johnstone. Its not about McCain himself, its about using him as a poster boy for warmongering.
Do NOT Let Them Make A Saint Of This Asshole
If you want to see a world with more and more John McCains, with more and more US wars of aggression and regime change interventionism, then by all means play right along with his public beatification. If you want to see a world where neoconservative war whores are treated with the revulsion, disdain and rejection they deserve, then now is your chance to help create that world. Refuse to be shamed and guilted into polite silence and move in the exact opposite direction from where the establishment shepherds are herding you.
You don’t have to be as brash about it as I am if that’s not your cup of tea. But now, while they are telling us that we are not permitted to speak about McCain’s unforgivable record of facilitating military bloodshed in Iraq, Syria, Libya and elsewhere, it is precisely the time to speak. By publicly disrupting the narrative of McCain’s sanctification, we make it harder for the war propagandists to manufacture consent for more war. It really is that simple.
Caitlin Johnstone, Do NOT Let Them Make A Saint Of This Asshole
The idea that this warmonger should lay in state in our nation's capitol sickens me. In the last 100 years, only 17 people have lain in state. They include eight presidents, three high-ranking military officials, and five senators.
1917 - Admiral George Dewey - only Admiral of the Navy
1948 - General John Pershing - commander AEF, WW1
1964 - General Douglas McArthur - one of 5 Generals of the Army1953 - Senator Robert Taft - Majority Leader
1969 - Senator Everett Dirksen - Minority Leader
1972 - J. Edgar Hoover
1978 - Senator Hubert Humphrey - VP nominee
1989 - Senator Claude Pepper
2012 - Senator Daniel Inouye - President Pro Tempore, Medal of Honor
I get the feeling that the honor has lately been cheapened. I don't remember the reasoning, but why should Hubert Humphrey have lain in state? Claude Pepper? Medal of Honor Winner, Daniel Inoyue actually sounds reasonable. But John, "reverse ace"[NOTE] McCain?
McCain is often called a “war hero”, a title adorning an unlovely resume starting with a father who was an admiral and graduation fifth from the bottom at the US Naval Academy, where he earned the nickname “McNasty”. McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam, each averaging about half an hour, total time ten hours and thirty minutes. For these brief excursions the admiral’s son was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, three Bronze Stars, the Vietnamese Legion of Honor and three Purple Hearts. US Veteran Dispatch calculates our hero earned a medal an hour, which is pretty good going. McCain was shot down over Hanoi on October 26, 1967 and parachuted into Truc Boch Lake, whence he was hauled by Vietnamese, and put in prison.
- Jeffrey St. Clair, Alexander Cockburn, The Horrors of John McCain: War Hero or War Criminal?
But enough about John McCain, the person. (If you want more, read Max Blumenthal's excellent biographical sketch.) What we should focus on are all the people trying to convince the country that he was a likable (vs McNasty) guy, a great patriot, and a role model (yeah, for sociopaths).
And, surprise, surprise, guess who is getting a lot of coverage for gushing over McCain? None other than Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC):
US House candidate, NY-14
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Retweeted Washington PostJohn McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency and American service. As an intern, I learned a lot about the power of humanity in government through his deep friendship with Sen. Kennedy. He meant so much, to so many. My prayers are with his family.
Sort of validates my hesitation to anoint her as the latest progressive savior.
The bottom line for me is that the US political system is owned by the warmongers. No one who wants to keep being published in the corporate propaganda media is going to bring up what a complete disaster McCain was - as a person, as a pilot, as a POW, and as a politician. The level of doublethink required to pretend that McCain was anything other than a sociopathic monster is beyond me. But in the Neo-McCarthyism era, its daunting to stand up and say that. Still, Caitlin has said it best. Do not let them make this guy into a saint.
------------------------------
NOTE (Reverse Ace)
During his relative short stint on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
#1 McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.
#2 McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20 which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
#3 McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.
#4 McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
https://novaordemnews.blogspot.com/2017/09/flashback-reverse-ace-mccain-...
McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain's record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam...
crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately "wet-started" his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. "Wet-starts", done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
In McCain's case, the "wet-start" apparently "cooked off" and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. "Wet starting" was apparently a common practice among young "hot-dog" pilots.
Comments
They're all hypocrites.
They love him, they hate him, they love him, they hate him.
I've never cared for the dude. Glad his expiration date finally arrived.
Good riddance
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I agree
I'm glad that he has taken his final flight from the planet.
This photograph
of McCain with ISIS leader Al Baghdadi in a meeting to arrange funding and support from the United States is worth thousands of words to me.
Here are a few of those thousand words
And this photograph
of McCain's supportive meetings with Ukrainian Nazis shows the same problem. This is what we're supposed to honor in this country under neocon neoliberalism, fascism, pure and simple. We are expected to bow down and weep at the loss of this killer.
Here's another one.
McCain in Kiev watching the Maidan "protest".
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvsN9syhZP8 width:500 height:300]
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Oh good gawd!
He was there watching that when it happened? Just wow. This video needs to go viral stat!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Quite why Ocasio-Cortez felt the need to chime in
is beyond me.
And then there's the complete burial of the corruption surrounding the Keating 5.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
She's already playing both sides.
She's thinking of survival. Gone are the days of thinking of your constituents and having a bit of honor and courage in your stand. We'll see how she works it the next two months.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
"....an unparalleled example of human decency..."
The guy that called his wife a trollop and c**t in front of people?
Unparalleled something, I'll give you that.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Her anti-ICE views may crumble her vote
But her favorable NY district will assure she gets elected. But how could any sincere, anti-war progressive endorse McCain? Will she flip over to the Dark Side, e.g., MIC, as soon as elected?
Caitlin Johnstone
has a good article addressing this:
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/08/27/why-do-our-heroes-always-let-us-...
She speaks my language. I have an older brother I adored. I put him on a pedestal. We had a big fight when I was in my 30's, he was in his 40's. I said, "I put you on a pedestal all these years." He said, "I never asked to be put up there." Those words have never left my consciousness.
We must stop having expectations of others and look within for the answers.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Thanks for the excellent CJ article
She makes a good, and very Buddhist point. But its so difficult to live that life; and that enough people in our society could do that (as opposed to getting on some demagogue's bandwagon) seems to me to be way less likely than WW3.
I appreciate her sentiments; and I accept her claim that she is no savior.
What to do? What to do?
As eloquent as Caitlin is, she delves here into metaphysics
Yes the current system (capitalism) is deeply flawed. The alternately proposed socialism is likewise flawed. In place of obtaining a gold attainment of the mean, "the narrative shift", will require more mental processing power than most citizens posses. This golden mean of concepts, or ideas, or economics, or whatever, is an abstract. While such a narrative shift is still in utero, its presentation into the world will bring with it flaws, presenting either immediately (like a still birth) or gradually. The timespan for Ocasio's metamorphosis seems quite brief. She has bitten of the apple of poisonous knowledge and forgot she was supposed to dislike the taste.
@Alligator Ed The question,
The question, however, is not about whether reality will always be flawed. The question is whether reality will always be a bunch of psychopaths driving us to global destruction within our lifetimes and attempting to cover that up with lies.
The problem with capitalism--well, one of its problems, the biggest one--is that it has brought us to this pass far more inevitably than feudalism would have. Feudalism, which involves competing lords and monarchs, gets to the destruction of the world through those conflicts, given powerful enough technology. In other words, if monarchs and lords can be convinced to take a course other than all-out war, and they often can, you won't arrive at the end of the world that day. If they can be convinced to use weapons that won't destroy the whole world, you won't arrive at the end of the world that day.
Maximizing profit inexorably leads you to the end of the world, unless you manage to redefine "profit."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Ursula K LeGuin’s The Disposessed
Her comments about being our own heros reminds me of the description of Odonian society being a “permanent revolution”.
Or the Zen proverb: “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.”
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I can see that and
can agree with you. Here's a beautiful passage about that:
Makes me wistful.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
@Raggedy Ann Excellent
Excellent quotation.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Biggest recipient of NRA money.
http://addictinginfo.com/2012/12/17/john-mccain-receives-the-most-lavish...
A friend of mine just group-texted his liberal family, who like so many other have been afflicted badly by the current Trump Derangement Syndrome:
As Caitlin has been hammering lately - it’s the Narrative. This is all MSM-manufactured revisionism and distraction, a continuing, relentless conveyer belt of stuff the doesn’t matter, purposely designed to take up all the air in the room. Our job is to not play into it by talking about it, or when necessary, set the real record straight as you have helped in doing here.
It’s during times like these when my revulsion with corporate media is off the charts - and I don’t have a tv or read mainstream sites or newspapers.
And, lying is state? This country is so full of it (themselves).
And J Edgar Hoover, that sinister, paranoid, self-loathing murderer, too? Beyond sickening.
If it’s not revisionism to rehabilitate a dodgy character like McCain, it’s doing an about face on activists who threaten the status quo, as in MLK and Mandela, both of whom were grossly sanitized by the same State and Media (or State Media) forces who went to great lengths to disparage and intimidate them.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Let us redefine both the concept of war and hero
Conflating the two is doing an injustice to our sensibilities. One does not become a hero because of engaging in war. Much less so by promoting murder on a mass scale. This is trying to become a cover for all the other death merchants. Glorifying their complicity in this non-stop destruction. The stain on humanity can not be bleached by honoring those without conscience.
question everything
It IS revisionism to rehabilitate McCain
A hundred years from now (should we survive that long), dedications to McCain will be treated like Confederate monuments.
Watching this three ring circus trying to paint a hyena as Lassie makes me sick.
When something goes completely contrary to the historical record, it IS revisionism. You nailed it.
Top comment of the week!
My only regret
is not his death, but the fact that he will be buried thereby making the surrounding area a waste site and diminishing the true heroes that are buried at that sacred site.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Okay. I can buy this
After decades of disparaging McCain. All the Dems come out to laud how great a Senator he was. Just like Byrd and Russel and Kennedy etc etc. Good for you they say and whisper under their breath, your finally dead now.
Unfortunately you all have records of your statements, pronouncements and tweets about his character, intent, ill-begotten motivation and HITLER!
It's so blatantly self-serving.
They think we're stupid and don't remember shit.
Just for yucks, Schumer wants to rename the Senate Office Building from Russel to McCain. For those ill informed, Senator Russel led the charge for the Dems to stop the 1965 Civil/Voting rights acts. McCain was a warmonger with the exception of "enhanced interrogation" which was out of bounds. Bombing the shit out of innocents? No problem there.
Crap
It's the cheese I tell you!
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
It's surprising
how many Democrats and "leftists" are falling all over themselves to praise McCain. And by surprising I mean disgusting.
One less asshole in the world; many more to go.
This shit is bananas.
No politician who wants to stay on the gravy train...
disses the MIC or one if its most brutal facilitators.
I have no idea what kind of good cop/bad cop spin they will put on McCain vs Obama; but they're both "cops" (i.e., owned by the MIC).
Anyone still awake will take this opportunity to document Dems on the record praising this warmonger. Starting with AOC.
nonsense. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
ditto
Why
is it nonsense?
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
He was made to look like-able . . . .
That's all it is. And without knowing the facts about him, he looks like-able. Choosing Sara Palin was telling though - he was clearly thinking with his dick.
Sigh.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
IMHO, he had to pick Grifterella to satisfy the fundies
McCain himself was an a-religious, philadndering, filthy rich asshole. Before Trump showed you can bugger the fundies, McCain had to conciliate them.
But, any sane person would have recognized Palin for the steaming wreckage that she was. Notice that 10 years later, the only time her name comes up is in relation to McCain.
As you say, another black mark against McCain.
Calling McCain an Asshole insults and degrades a
necessary and useful body part,
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Does this make us smart-asses? Couldn't resist the pun. ;)
Must admit to enjoying repugs having to defend their leader's shunning of the Republican King in State.
I could not stand that warmongerer
McCain represented no one but himself and peripherally the MIC. I am not even sure he is actually dead, but if he is, good riddance.
YouTuber Seething Frog did a video on his thoughts about McCain and his overall lack of character. Seething Frog characterized McCain (whom he called Jockstrap McStain) as someone who always showed a sense of entitlement from his earliest days at the Naval Academy where he graduated 894th out of 899 in his class. How he ever got to be a pilot is beyond me and maybe he never should have been one.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg40UIZhtzY]
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
How does 894 out of 899 get to be a pilot?
Cause his dad was an admiral; and his grandad had been an admiral. Because the military is a caste system that is bordering on inherited privilege.
Being a lying bastard must run in the family, because McCain's dad was in charge of shutting down any genuine investigation of why Israel tried to sink the USS Liberty, and failing that, tried to machine gun Americans in lifeboats.
Seething Frog doubled down on his exposure of McCain
here.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjWpo0sQxvk]
As background, Seething Frog is not a liberal. Based upon his posts, I would label him as a fiscal conservative with libertarian leanings. He lives in Arizona, so he knows John McCain well. His first video on McCain was not flattering, but this one is even moreso less flattering.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Lockheed Martin is in mourning
This sums up McCain's legacy for this century quite well doesn't it? Of course he isn't alone in this, but he was a huge part of it. I've read so many articles about him that show how many countries have been destroyed because of him
Here are two great articles on how he left over a hundred POWs in Vietnam and then how he worked on covering it up.
http://www.unz.com/article/was-rambo-right/
http://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/
The real legacy of John McCain is not a war hero.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I went round and round
with Caitlin and her followers.
Don't buy her b.s. that all of these progressive "accolades" somehow detract from sumpthin' sumpthin'.
She didn't buy it. whatevs...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I don't buy the argument that Ocasio didn't mean it
To give even "faint praise", which in her case was more than faint praise, is to disclose the boundaries at which you currently set your ethics and intentions.
Two possibilities of Ocasio's eulogy are thus derived--there is no third option.
One, she really is, underneath it all, a war monger.
The other is that she is a hypocrite.
War-monger or hypocrite. Which do you prefer?
There's another
faint possibility, and it's that she doesn't know anything about McCain. But I doubt it. She's a warmongering tool of the military industrial complex. This was an acid test. She could easily have avoided saying anything. Instead, she mouthed the Party line.
Or, number 3, she's a
rookie candidate
making a rookie mistake,
that got bum advice from her "handlers."
I go with #3.
But, regardless, it doesn't amount to jack.
AO-C doesn't know the man, was attempting, I suspect, to be polite, when no "statement" was even needed at all.
Our congressional candidate here in NY-21 did the same exact thing.
"my condolences, blah blah, blah... "
Did she get any blowback from "progressives??" Hell no! Why? Becuz she's a non elected nobody.
Does paying respects to a war monger make one a war monger these days??
nonsense. Of course it doesn't. Or at least I would hope not.
As I told Caitlin, it's just a gesture. It is NOT more than that.
And it isn't.
To think otherwise is b.s.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Don't you get that you're writing a "just so" story?
In a previous comment, I quoted a guy on MoA talking about "True Believers". He mentioned:
a) the "Oh, he had to do that!" justification
b)a shrewd "pragmatic" gambit
and
c) To True Believers, if (AOC) seems equivocal, or even confused, about the nature of (Democratic) socialism-- or, as here, expresses anodyne, conformist, safe positions, they will justify this as sensible reticence. AOC has to appeal to the elusive "center", and charm skeptical voters by not appearing unduly extreme or, God forbid, radical.
Since she a) didn't have to do it; b) it wasn't pragmatic; and c) it sure wasn't reticence, you have invented just so story d) "she's a rookie".
I can't tell you what to believe; I can only point out that its this week's just so story.
And doesn't everyone (except
me, apparently) get
that this non story amounts to jack?
What possible relevance is there in a condolence tweet??
Does it "truly identifies who she is!!"
Nonsense.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
There is a reason why she is being called Obama in a dress
People have even already said that she is playing chess. She may have started out with pure intentions, but sooner or later the power starts going to ones head or they are put under so much pressure to conform that they usually change. Then there's that part about how her foreign policies keep disappearing from her website. At least keep your mind open to the possibility that she has changed some.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I see one of her
videos from a campaign
event somewhere 1 or 2 times a week.
She just continues doing what she's been doing for two, three months.
And, she's more a Bernie in a dress than O'bummer in a dress.
Do I expect AO-C to perform miracles, the earth to move when she takes the oath?
Of course not.
But she is a Yuuuge progressive face and voice in a venue that has Way to few, and certainly among the very few to pick up the progressive flag to lead the parade.
I find it astonishing that she gets dissed by the likes of Caitlin and her fellow progressives for the unforgivable High Crime of posting a condolence tweet.
Becuz... lack of purity or some bull$h!t.
Amazing.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
wink, it's not
just a condolence tweet. She says, reportedly,
That's not the same as saying, "I feel badly for his family. May they find peace."
She says,
That's a lie. It's not a true statement. It's a lie in service of the worst possible interests, what President Eisenhower called The Merchants of Death.
And so??
Sure, it's a tad
over the top.
Likely bad advice from "handlers."
But that's all it is.
That's all it is.
Many Libs wrote similar sentiments.
Bernie among them.
So what??
Do any progressives seriously take these tweets to heart??
Apparently.
{rolls eyes}
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
wink,
I respect you, and I agree with so many of your statements over the years that have to respond. You say about AOC effusively praising McCain,
What I hear from that remark is that it's OK for her to be a witless repeater of bad statements by her handlers. And I verge on the edge of extreme sensitivity here, but what I hear is it's OK for women to be like that, easily manipulated, confused, misled, and seriously mistaken but what can you expect?
You said Bernie said similar things as did other Libs. I think you and I both know it is over for any and all members of Congress and the Media who support the slaughter of children for profit. By that I mean, it is over in terms of support from any thinking person. With the subject of McCain we are seeing the difference between playing the game of politely groveling before the slaughter of children for profit and having the UNPARALLELED HUMAN DECENCY to stand up and say that it's wrong.
When those photographs first came out of John McCain visiting in Syria with the ISIS leadership, I spent time online trying to identify some of the perpetrators in the photos. In the process, I saw a photo of one of the Nusra killers smiling after having mutilated a child. It set me back for a long time. We have to stop pretending these people are OK.
What's the word?
False Equivalency.
"Do any progressives seriously take these tweets to heart??"
Do they "reveal who they (progressive candidates) truly are" (as Caitlin suggests)?
Apparently they do for most Libs!
Who knew Twitter condolences would be the standard?
Sorry (not), I don't buy it.
Nothing to see here.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Yes, I hear your plausible denial that tweets don't matter
I have interacted with you on several occasions about AOC, and sheepdogs in general. Its quite clear to me that we completely disagree about the usefulness of the Democratic Party. As I said to someone else in this thread:
So, you go ahead and deflect, deny, and minimize what little we have to go on about all these candidates - that is, their own words (which include tweets). You go ahead and stick your fingers in your ears and say "I can't hear you".
I'm quite convinced that I am never going to break through the wall of nostalgia/denial/need to believe. You can be assured that your excuses for faux leftists' bad behavior are equally unconvincing to me.
So, from here forward, I'm just going to not reply to your insistence that there is something worth saving in the Democratic Party, and all the corporatist sheepdogs who sail in it. To be clear, its only that topic that I am quitting on. Not saying you're bad. Just saying further discussion on this topic is unlikely to be productive.
Can you explain what you are referring to?
What progressive accolades? What does "sumpthin;' sumpthin'" refer to? This is hardly more informative than your earlier one word post.
Caitlin was bashing ALL
elected Dims for offering
high praise condolences for McCain.
"don't let this warmonger be martyrd!!" (or something similar)
Not just AO-C, even though she particularly mentioned AO-C, as if to say, "Look what I've found (pointing to her tweet)!! Turns out AO-C is NOT as progressive as she would have us believe!!" (adding yet another feather in her, Caitlin's, cap for pointing out yet more "hypocrisy" from The Left) {rolls eyes} (her raison d'etre of late).
The "sumpthin' sumpthin'" is just a generic "whatever Caitlin is objecting to" expression, indicating I have no clue what she's objecting to that is so earth shaking.
Regardless, I consider it all bull$h!t, much ado about nothing, and told her so.
To which she didn't respond. my whatevs...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Let me quote a post at Moon of Alabama
On the subject of True Believers.
As someone else said, Obama in a dress. Only we've all seen the act before, and I am not buying her. Her trajectory looks a lot like sheepdog to me.
His six years in the Hanoi Hilton does deserve some respect
McCain's vote also saved Obamacare and prevented us from going back to "pre-existing conditions" and the much worse health care situation to which Trump wants us to return. I wish Trump spent 6 years in the Hanoi Hilton. If he survived he would be a lot more tolerable.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I only respected the man's survival skills...
...not what he used them to accomplish. After he was shot down, he had no choice but to survive in the HH. The question is how he survived there.
I have not followed all the details of McCain's life, but one theme running through it was privilege. The NVs were certainly aware that McCain's father was the admiral in charge of the US fleet off the shores Viet Nam. That instantly gave McCain leverage that no other POW had.
As for surviving torture, see my first sentence. However, there is mixed reporting as to whether his permanent injuries came from torture or from being hurt by his ejection seat.
Finally, there is another controversy regarding whether McCain was or wasn't a stool-pigeon.
At this late date, I'm not going to dig into verifying McCain's behavior in the HH. But, given that his POW experience is the bulk of his "heroism", I am not really all that impressed. What did he really do except save his own ass, which was his default behavior.
As for voting with Obama, who knows what kind of devious quid pro quo was playing out behind the scenes, what kind of "maverick"-polishing calculation went into that vote? Again, its pretty sparse results for a lifetime as a maverick. If I were to label McCain a good guy for saving Obamacare, should I not also give the same label to Chief Justice Roberts who did the same thing?
He didn't vote with Obama he voted against Trump
Trump and his invertebrates in Congress were about to destroy what little but important protections Obamacare offers and McCain's vote stopped that bullshit, no thanks to delusional Trump supporters.
Beware the bullshit factories.
For purposes of this argument, a distinction without a diferenc
The point is not whether he supported Obama or opposed Trump. You say he did something good. I say he was simply indulging one of his many personal vendettas. The fact it did some good is peripheral.
McCain had a grudge against Trump and vice versa. (McCain probably resented Trump for parlaying the "maverick" card into the WH, whereas McCain failed in that.)
You are basically arguing that the enemy (McCain) of my enemy (Trump) is my friend. Not buying that logic. It is exactly such logic that has resulted in our supporting Al Quida in Yemen.
I don't like Trump's disrespect for all democratic institutions
And I don't like Trump's abhorence of democratic traditions like honest Debate, A feeling I guess I share with McCain and the rest of the so-called establishment Democrats and Republicans even though I hate the corruption.
Beware the bullshit factories.
The subject is McCain, not Trump. Stop diverting. n/t
I am talking about McCain and his opposition to Trump
This is going to be all about McCain and Trump Trump and McCain for the next 7 or 8 days. Trump's not invited to McCains service where Obama and Dubya are going to talk.
Beware the bullshit factories.
You assume I believe the political system works for me
I have made my position on politics quite clear on this board. I expect nothing good from the political parties or the corporate media. They are all gangsters out for themselves, and they do not care how many peasants they trample in their fighting over the spoils. Trump, McCain, Clinton, Obama - all the same. Out for number one and trying to con me into picking a side in a fight where none of them are on my side.
The 2016 campaign convinced me that both parties are bought and paid for, and that semi-outsiders like Bernie will fold (for what reason Bernie did, I can't say) when they get near power. "Mavericks" (a self-conscious affectation these days) will do whatever they calculate gets them the most points in the corrupt system. Nobody is looking out for the American people anymore, except the American people.
As for it being a media circus for a week, so what? Its been a media circus about Russiagate for two years, both events are simply part of the never-ending campaign to suck the oxygen out of the room and give the corporate media whores the opportunity to hammer home the propaganda points.
Honest debate! In Congress?!
WTF? That statement is an oxymoron. Debate is all about which lobbyists and magnates get to pull which marionette's strings.
Honest debate! I think I'll eat a large lizard!
oops. duplicate comment
"what little but important protections Obamacare offers"
It seems you implicitly recognize that Obamacare was another sellout to the FIRE sector by the Empty Suit; but, instead of replacing it by something like Medicare for All, you think it should be defended.
You are making a big deal about McCain keeping a corporate-enriching, unsustainable system going so insurers can continue to rake in the big bucks. To me, that is how people think when they believe that if they just try hard enough, they can work within the completely corrupt political system.
I'm not the only one who thinks McCain did it for sheer spite
Now, I'm not vouching for the "betrayed his country" theme, although I have mentioned that such a theory has been out there since the 1970s. I'm just saying that, when talking about as vicious a man as John McCain, spite is just as probable a motivation as "doing good".
Not sure if this is the same article you posted
but it's full of information about his time there.
This goes with the two links I mentioned above about how he covered up the POWs that Vietnam held on to. It's pretty damning and it also talks about the incident on his ship. He should have been grounded after that if not before.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Did you forget the link? n/t
Doh!
https://www.sott.net/article/365118-Worse-than-his-Vietnam-POW-record-Mc...
I had a load of heavy duty drugs this morning. Fun times ...
ETA. It's the same link. I'm still blaming this on the drugs. But it's packed with numerous articles about his days in the HH.
ETA A here's one of his senate legacy
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/08/thomas-luongo/mccains-legacy-is-death/
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thanks. I'll take a look at the Lew Rockwell one.
Lew's a paleocon, right?
I am not familiar enough with him to form an opinion
here's another one you might enjoy. McCain did have the nickname McNasty because of his bellicose temper. He called quite a few people nasty names including his ex wife.
The Horrors of John McCain: War Hero or War Criminal?
I don't know if this one has been posted here or not. There have been so many links I've followed since he shuffled off that I've lost track of where I've found the links to them. Plus the lovely drugs today.
Hold the Plaudits, John McCain’s 2008 Campaign Paved the Way for Donald Trump
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thanks for the second (Intercept) link
Just FYI, I quoted from the first link in my OP.
The second link is quite a compendium of what a foul guy McCain was - so different than the whitewash biography that is being put out by TPTB.
No he wouldn't.
He'd be McCain. An intolerable asshat.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Good video of McNasty
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
And the foaming at the mouth by the "liberal" media
over the WH not flying the flag at half staff today. Counterpoint: McCain was a piece of shit who didn't deserve to have the flag at half mast. Makes me nauseous. Probably Trump retaliating for being banned from his funeral. Who cares? Bunch of fucking piss-babies.
This shit is bananas.
Agreed
How many flag draped coffins were because of what he did that put them in countries that they had no business being in? And of course he isn't the only responsible for that. But he is the one being lionized.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Its all distraction
It pushes real news off stage. We could really use information on the various trade wars, the continuing provocations in Syria, etc.
Instead we get this pathetic, juvenille name calling and trash talking. It lets Trump off the hook for the global chaos he has created. The media are giving Trump a gift while pretending to attack him.
I don't care about Trump vs McCain. It is another made-up WWE event.
Why do our "heroes"
require worship?
"Do NOT Let Them Make
A Saint Of This Asshole"
yeah, that's the quote.
As if the Twitterverse, social media could somehow make that happen.
Caitlin all upset that elected Dims - and unelected Dims - are rushing to heap praise on warmonger McCain! Can't get those praiseful tweets out fast enough! The world will end if "we" allow this praise to continue!! Stop it at all costs!!
whatevs...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
If the net is so useless, why do you keep posting?
You seem to have a serious hate on for Caitlin. You don't like her flavor of sarcasm, whereas your flavor of sarcasm smells good.
What exactly is your objection to pushing back against the lies of omission and commision being told about McCain's career in politics? You got a problem with facts? I just want to know if facts matter to you, or if life to you consists solely of tweets on the internet. You know, facts, like McCain lying in state. Facts like whitewashing his support for Ukrainian neo-Nazis, ISIS, and Al Quida - facts that have gotten at least hundreds of thousands of people killed.
I believe she proteth Way
too much. Way.
I didn't read sarcasm.
She was all over AO-C for her high crimes of publicly heaping praise on McCain.
And, no, I don't believe this Twitter $h!tstorm will amount to much of anything for most of us, will be forgotten in a week or two.
And, other than this horse$h!t, generally agree with her 92% of the time.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.