So now even Markos embraces socialism
So Markos says he wants us to have a debate about socialism.
This is coming from a guy who banned democratic socialists from debating the Democratic primaries in mid-March.
I'm starting to think that "socialism" has become a fad among some Democrats.
Netroots founding organizer: Democrats must embrace socialism or be irrelevant pic.twitter.com/mx9JnXkqFc
— Wired Sources (@WiredSources) August 3, 2018
If Markos is serious, shouldn't he admit he was wrong on DKos and apologize?
Hah! Of course not. Markos still took a moment to sh*t on Bernie.
It's obvious that the political ground has shifted, and now Markos is rushing to catch up, by co-opting the label. Just like they did to "progressive".
Progressive leaders gathered at the annual Netroots Nation conference sought to deliver a clear message about the Democratic Party's direction headed into the 2020 presidential race: They won't settle for a moderate to take on President Donald Trump.
So no Biden then? We shall see.
I wonder if any of them are just posers?
The moderate speaker, congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, who spoke last month at a convention convened by the centrist thinktank Third Way, reaffirmed his support for Medicare for All and legalizing marijuana while the most leftwing, socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez made a call for Democratic unity.
Right. That Third Way convention specifically opposed Medicare for All.
Now he endorses it?? Bullsh*t.
As for Netroots, this is still a problem.
The conference which has a history of disruption by Black Lives Matter activists saw a similar protest on Saturday. But while past events saw activists demand that presidential candidates explicitly state that “Black Lives Matter,” those crowding the stage holding signs saying “#blackasscaucus” were focused on administrative issues.
...
“I see some of you are uncomfortable. Your white fragility is showing. Your white tears are showing – I’m ready to drink them,” one activist told the crowd.
That's not a protest. That's a troll.
Comments
I was actually against socialism, before I voted for it.
Oh, shut up Markos. We all know you're really interested in our hot friend "Campaign Contributions".
In your dreams pal.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaNbm6bwid4]
/snark
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I think he knows that he can discredit it
, just by being associated with the word.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
@Bisbonian More Overton follies.
More Overton follies.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Markos WHO?
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
The richest nation on earth should not have to
open a fundraiser to ask strangers for money so they can get treatment for their illnesses, injuries, surgeries, funerals or for basically trying to stay alive. I can only imagine what people in countries that have decent medical care think about us having to do that.
That the UN's report on our poverty rate shows that this country is a banana republic should embarrass every member of the government, but it didn't. Nor do they experience any shame for it. While our government has wasted trillions for their military excursions other countries have been taking care of their citizens. And instead of us demanding that our military should only be used to protect the country, people think that our troops are heroes for "risking their lives for our freedoms and defending our country."
Good grief. How people can be so damned blind to what our troops actually do is beyond my comprehension. BTW. 90 members of Utah's national guard are being sent to Poland. Why? Good question.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Illegal
The Constitution says that state militias can only be federalized in case of insurrection or to repel invasion.
Eisenhower's federalization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_National_Guard_and_the_integratio...) was in response to defiance of a federal court order which certainly can be considered
federalizationinsurrection.But the USA has not been invaded since Dec 7 1941. And certainly not by Poland.
Is their argument that Putin has invaded the USA because Russian businessmen, not prove to be acting on his orders, bought Facebook ads?
EDIT: federal court order
EDIT2: GAh! fixed monstrous typo in first paragraph!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
They don't care that it's illegal
They only care that they can get away with it. And with Congress flat as a rug and the Supreme Court in cahoots, get away with it they do. And have. And will.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
econ
The United States is not the richest country in the world. That title goes to one of the small states with vast oil reserves. I cringe every time I hear or read that statement. Bernie needs to stop saying that. However, it does have the biggest economy.
It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan
IOW not richest per capita
An interesting point.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
If this is the case, then he owes all of us an apology.
But it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Kos and friends have the political consistency of a fuckin' wind sock.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
used condom
..... used condom.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
That would imply they're into protection.
These assholes are just as bareback as the Repigs.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Thank Goodness for Blogs
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
@The Aspie Corner I suspect he's quite
I suspect he's quite consistent in his politics. He's simply lying because his bosses are trying to destabilize the meaning of the word "socialism."
But you're right, it's no big news that Markos is a lying tool.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
He's an idiot
Some positive things from Netroots
AOC
some people get it
socialism
Let's have a debate about --
whether or not the Democrats have a shred of credibility in their pronouncements about "socialism."
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
Are You Doubting Markos' Credentials as a Socialist?
He was so convincing on Fawlty Towers.
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
@Cassiodorus What is there to debate
What is there to debate? They're obviously lying.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Warren again shows her true colors.
Now she says that the GOP is dividing the Dems.... add them to the list of villains along with the Russians and Bernie Sanders. She blows hot and cold too and I don't trust her. If anyone is dividing the democratic party, it is the centrist Dems who are working frantically to knock out the new progressives. Now Warren wants us to look at her as one? I don't think so.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
@gjohnsit Warren’s Netroots speech
Warren’s Netroots speech blasted corporate influence in Washington D.C. and argued for a kind of class awakening, saying Republicans’ embrace of the “politics of division” has pitted “black working people against white people people so they won’t band together.”
No, Liz, that would be your bosses, the Clintons, who have been doing that. Since about 2008. Amusingly, Hillary has done it from both sides, first pandering to the white conservative working class (in 2008, when she was running against a black man), and then pandering to black and Latino people (in 2016, when she was running against a white man with a foul racist mouth.)
Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if it were a bipartisan effort, probably discussed over cocktails at Kennebunkport.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This is their idea of political jiu jitsu.
Embrace the
liberalismprogressivismsocialism then turn it into a mockery of itself. We are not fooled, Commander Markos.Sorry, gotta laugh my head off on that one...
because if that's his idea of a brilliant redirection of force, I'm just going to step with him, and reap that leg he's putting all his weight on.
Hey Markos? Please explain why the mainstream media is embracing your message now? I was under the impression that you were an edgy outsider, so why do you suddenly feel the need to polish up your creds by appearing on the programs you are supposedly the "outsider" to? As a regular guest no less?
/snark
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
@detroitmechworks Locking the Gate:
Locking the Gate: Silicon Valley, the CIA, and the Rise of Cartel Politics
LMAO
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think the little CIA dude pretty much nailed what
democratic socialism is anyway. They're not calling for nationalizing the banks and creating a publicly owned central bank, giving ownership of the corporations to the people or ending wall street gangster capitalism, they're just advocating for single payer or medicare for all, more food stamps and a war against Russia, just like Marcos said.
So what's the difference relative to making a mockery of socialism?
@Big Al Markos is using the
Markos is using the word socialism, plain and simple. Despite their distaste for the word, they have obviously decided that they need to repossess it, because we can't have people having a name for their disgust with the status quo.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Obama, Our Last "Socialist" President Privatized NASA.
Just wait for your Socialist Money Market Retirement Account. Or your Socialist Tax Reductions.
Socialist Wars for Profit!
Fucking absurd.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Markos now thinks socialism is the way to go?
This might be a surprise to his little band of Kosbots who have proudly declared that they are centrists not progressives.
Anyone remember why little Markie wasn't allowed on MSDNC during the Obama years? Or did that happen during the Bush years?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Markos is Just Showing His True Colors
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
@JekyllnHyde Conformist,
Conformist, unprincipled centrism, or, as we used to call it, rank expediency.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Bingo!
Markos got the 4 am memo to use the term socialism to represent the same old crap that he and the neoliberals stand for.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
TOP waged a smear campaign against...
Bernie, his policies, and very much Bernie's supporters. And after the election? A beat down on anybody bringing up Bernie. Criticism of Hillary after the election was met with every sort of accusation of deliberate undermining, yada yada. And now this? Spiritually and intellectually TOP and Markos are what I call DNC establishment reactionaries.
@MrWebster Or, to put it another
Or, to put it another way, corporatist fascists.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
hoser
Most of them are posers.
Markos, on the other hand, is a member of that group Canadians call hosers.....
[video:https://youtu.be/8Jm4LoOaAWI]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
droll troll
And a droll troll into the bargain!
This so-called "activist" wants people of color to enjoy the same status here as Muslim Arabs "enjoy" in the Israel of Bibi Netanyahu!
Doing the KKK's dirty work for them. And, likely, for free.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Your white tears are
Your white tears are showing I'm ready to drink them?
Well, your corporate ass is showing, and it ain't a pretty sight.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
There you go, your democratic party is being reformed
just like you wanted. Now all you have to do is get people to vote for all those "socialist" progressives and the dem party will save the planet.
Nah, Big Al
It is the same old bullshit with a new name. And most folks around here see right through it.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
No,
the author has clearly stated many times that he believes the effort should be about reforming the democratic party through the democratic socialists like Bernie and Ocasio-Cortez and eliminating the "corrupt leadership" in favor of the new "progressive wave". I was just telling him his plan is working.
Thanks for taking me out of context Al
That way I know you aren't interested in an honest debate.
@Big Al And you know that a
And you know that a lot of people around here don't agree with him.
Most people around here believe in voting--I'm not sure why--but a lot of people around here have no interest in reforming the two crime families, I mean political parties.
If you're ever interested in talking about something different, stop by my open thread. It's slow, awkward, and painful, but I'm groping my way slowly into talking about what we might actually do. No party politics involved.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Maybe that's what I'll do CS.
Although I'm tempted to leave altogether at this point. I stopped posting essays here because of the partisan environment, so maybe I can relay information I've researched at your place. Reminds me of Daily Kos, where I stopped posting diaries and was restricted to Joe's EB diaries until I had enough and GBCW'd. If I could do that here right now and insure my addiction couldn't be filled, I would, guarantee it.
I know there's a number of people here who have views similar to mine, but we're a distinct minority and many have and are phasing out of here.
@Big Al I don't think
I don't think this place is much like DKos. It's pretty obvious now that DKos was a psy-op from the beginning. I'm ashamed to have fallen for it, but I was a lot less savvy in 2003/4. Caucus, in contrast, is a project actually undertaken by ordinary people with no strings being pulled by the PTB. I know this for a fact, having been one of the founding members. That's why there are no roving gangs of sanctioned bullies on this site. It's also why character attacks are comparatively few and far between.
There are far more dissidents on this site than most places. There are plenty of people here who see that the two parties are both fronts for the same corrupt power.
However, the idea of reforming the Democrats has extraordinary staying power. It will probably always be held by many people on this site. The idea of working through one of the parties to get power and then move the country your way by educating and activating your fellow citizens to rally behind the good-guy politicians--that idea has enormous gravitational pull in the United States. I sometimes wonder what crime the Democrats could commit, what evidence of entrenched corruption they could provide, which would get people to finally give up on them. If 2016 didn't do it, I can't imagine that anything would. So there will always be people who hold gjohnsit's position--and frankly, if the evidence of 2016 doesn't convince them, nothing I say will.
In order to truly accept that party politics is a bunch of lying crap designed to make you waste your time, energy and money--well, accepting that, for most Americans, is like accepting a knife in the heart. Most people see nowhere to go if they go outside electoral party politics, nothing to do but despair.
And let's be honest--it's HARD to find a way to stay grounded in the truth without succumbing to despair. That's what I'm struggling with in my OT weekly.
I hope you do stop by. I can't promise a bunch of settled answers, or inspirational writing, but I can promise that I will be honest as I try to find my way.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Just for the record,
I didn't say it was like Daily Kos, I said my experience is very similar. For what that's worth.
Obviously, there's a common denominator in that. Me.
I have come to some new conclusions and opinions about the big picture I'd like to share with people, so I'll check out your posts.
Seriously Big Al
I think that attributing motives to the entire membership of this site due to something one or two people write is grossly unfair to everyone. You and I have locked horns in the past, but I still give your ideas some thought. No one of us knows everything. For me, part of becoming red pilled is to explore ideas I never previously considered and to challenge myself by doing so. This does not always mean I will accept those ideas or I may accept them temporarily until proven otherwise.
You have posted things here in the past that I once challenged and then later accepted. It is a process that we all are going through. We were ingrained with certain ideas and perceptions from early childhood and are now seeing those ideas and perceptions may not be what we were taught to believe. It is not an easy process to become red pilled and I would argue that it is also a process that continues through life.
I accept myself as a flawed human being who is constantly changing and evolving. The only thing I ask is for the space to be that way without being summarily dismissed as not worthy enough to have an opinion, even if it is flawed or not one that others here believe. I try to do the same as I ask when I react to others' comments unless I can prove said comments are incorrect.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Thank you gulfgal
I very much appreciate and identify with what you've expressed here. I think most of us are open to considering perspectives in a multi-dimensional way, and in search of greater understanding. I find value in reading and considering varying points of view, especially when they are presented in a genuine and respectful way.
OT, I kind of miss
your smiling face. (but the dog is very cute)
dfarrah
OT thanks
Thanks but I have to have Willie Bear as my avatar. We lost him a little over a week ago due to a sudden illness. He was nearly 16 and had been in excellent health until very recently. He was very special to me and was my favorite dog of the ten we have had.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
So sorry for your loss....nt
dfarrah
thank you
I miss him, but I remind myself that I had nearly 16years of great memories with him.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
My condolences, as well, Nancy. Maybe
it's just the way a typical 'dog lover' thinks, but, as soon as I saw that you had replaced your avatar photo with his, I wondered if it was intended as a memorial. Relieved to hear that he didn't suffer, or linger; glad that you had so many wonderful years with him.
Mollie/Blue Onyx (Reverting to my original handle)
"Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong."~~W. R. Purche
“Never, never be afraid to do what’s right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society’s punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.”~~Martin Luther King Jr.
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
WB was awesome
He went out with his dignity intact and his furry little boots on! He was one of a kind in so many ways. But he was what is known as a throwback pomeranian. What that means is that at over 20 lbs, he was four times the size of the show quality dogs. He was what his breed really was intended to be...a sled dog. He was smart as they come and we were really bonded. Good memories and no regrets.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@Big Al Fuck that.
Fuck that.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Movements and terms will
Movements and terms will forever be co-opted by the Democrats, all to neutralize any potential shift that actually will work for people.
Democrats are not progressive; never have been nor will they ever be. Now, anyone is a progressive. Progressive is now a term that you can't define; you can't be the sole arbiter of who is or isn't a progressive. Corporate, sadistic, monsters like Clinton and Obama are "progressive".
Now, somehow the Democrats will be "socialist" too. Please. Democrats are capitalists and love being capitalists. They love hurting and killing poor people, all to validate their own rich existence.
progressive Democrats
False. A long time ago, in a place not so very far away, there was indeed such a thing as a "progressive Democrat". Three generations of my mother's family took pride in being such. In the continuously-loyal States from 1932 to 1979 or so, the progressives -- the "New Dealers" -- were the Democrats.
That this species is almost completely extinct today, at least in the power-holding levels of the Party, doesn't mean it never existed. It did. And Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez was correct to point that out:
We've already got one GOP, which is about 100 too many. We sure as fuck don't need any more.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloidesFalse. A long time ago,
I'm going to push back on this one. The reason that New Deal Democrats came into being was because it was either become social democrats or lose capitalism. The socialist wave was there and so they placated the people.
Once the threat of socialism was over, then the very same Democrats slowly but surely began to gut the very things that they themselves enacted.
The New Deal Democrats were an anomaly in a long chain of events of subservience to capitalism. That anomaly was only to make sure that socialism did not take root in this country. Once the threat was gone, so too was the "progressivism".
socially democratic Dems
Our principal difference, methinks, is that the genuinely progressive Dems in my background were what you refer to as the "placated people". There was indeed a social-democratic to socialist movement among ordinary Americans during the days of which I speak.
You are, however, correct insofar as what the party bosses did about those facts:
And the "threat" has reared its head up yet again. Seems Millennials and their children have done a fine job of rediscovering social democracy, and they want it.
Whether Schumer, Pelosi, Feinstein, Moulitsas and Company agree or not.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The Progressives --
-- as I recall reading about them -- were a species of reformist in the US political context whose main period of activity was more or less between 1890 and 1916. Their primary effect was to provide a few amenities to the poorest Americans while exerting just enough control over the owning class to legitimize the system. Their reforms led to the improvement of working standards in America while Gabriel Kolko thought of them as conservatives. Later, I suppose, people would write comparative essays for college classes comparing and contrasting the Progressive Era with the New Deal.
I'm not really clear what good it does debating who is and who isn't a "progressive." Barack Obama looked a lot like a "progressive" for eight years while, under his tenure, the Democrats ceded 900 state legislative seats to the Republicans.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
Only to people he fooled
Many people tried to warn us that Obama's pretense of being a progressive were just that. Pretense. His history of his tenure in the Illinois senate showed that he was a cowardly blow hard when it came time for him to vote for legislation that would help the little people. A recent poll showed that he is the best president in recent history. Yesterday I read that "he was the best president since FDR." Blehh!
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
true, but I know this only because I found
in the archives of the DC German TV studio film material from interviews and clips when he was still in Chicago. We had some seasoned foreign correspondents in our studio and only one woman distrusted Obama from the beginning. I remember because I couldn't quite follow her at that time (still was so happy not to listen to GWBush utterings) and wondered what it was that made her distrusting.
After Obama's visit to Berlin 2008 and Prague 2009 I started to understand.
[video:https://youtu.be/Q-9ry38AhbU]
But I tried to be a stubborn believer for quite soem time and then slowly gave up.
https://www.euronews.com/live
@Cassiodorus Obama started to
Obama started to look unprogressive when he got on the wrong side of warrantless surveillance. That was before he became president.
There is absolutely nothing progressive in the way he handled the Wall St crisis.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The position of ordinary people
was enhanced in many ways from the New Deal through Civil Rights and Environmental laws. Yes, that was how capitalism saved itself, being on the ropes from failures and fearing Communism. Nonetheless, the gains were there.
To conflate the New Deal Dems with the Party two or three generations later is an observational mistake.
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
@jim pThe position of
Perhaps the real question to ask would then be would those New Deal Democrats have enacted those programs without the threat of a new system usurping their power?
Did those programs help ordinary people? Yes.
The issue isn't whether or not those programs helped people, the bigger question is whether or not they would have enacted those programs at any other point during their history.
From the life of the Dem party, that answer would be no. The Dems have been strong capitalists throughout their inception as a party with an anomalous period of the 1930's-1960's with regards to concerns of a socialist threat. Once the threat was gone, they went back to their roots. They didn't enact the programs to help people; they enacted them to save their own ass and power. Then decades later, when their power wasn't threatened anymore, came the gutting of the programs they themselves enacted.
In the end, the capitalists enacted a few programs to pacify the population. When the dust cleared and the people went back to sleep, the capitalists began taking those programs away.
@Strife Delivery Jeez, I should
Jeez, I should have read down a little further. You said it much better.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@jim p I think the idea is
I think the idea is that the Democratic party decided to take those good actions because they were afraid that if they didn't, the actual socialists would clean their clocks--one way or another.
That meant that the very real gains (you're right about that) were fleeting, because once power shifted so that the fear of a socialist revolution/takeover was quelled, all the gains of the New Deal and the Great Society had the resilience of cardboard in the rain.
Another way to put it: they made friends with the labor movement, got them to sever ties with actual socialists, spent a while demonizing actual socialists and calming people down with reforms, and then repeatedly stabbed labor in the back. Of course, by that time, most of the labor leadership was stabbing labor in the back too.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Socialst or Fascist
According to my Father and my Uncle who lived through that time, Fascism was equally likely. The Bund was strong.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@Strife Delivery I think you're both
I think you're both right. It depends on what question you're asking.
One set of questions is: "Were there once ordinary people who were members of the Democratic Party, who also held views you and I might describe as progressive? Were there once people who identified as Democrats who were actually social democrats?"
It seems clear that the answer to that is yes.
or are you asking "Were the powerful people in and behind the Democratic Party ever possessed of a sincere desire to be progressive and advance the aims of social democracy? Or were the powerful people working in and through the Democratic Party simply desperate to fend off an actual social revolution?"
I'd say the answer to that set of questions is mostly what you say it is, though I wouldn't assume that your ideas applied absolutely. In other words, possibly Frances Perkins was genuinely in favor of social democracy and reform for the benefit of working people. There may have been some people with some level of authority, scattered throughout the Democratic party infrastructure, who were sincerely progressive, or sincere social democrats. However, the existence of those people would not have been enough to move the party in the direction of the New Deal and the Great Society without the threat of an actual socialist revolution. You'll notice that once they quelled the chance of that happening, mostly by assassinating people, but also through propaganda and some economic hijinks, they immediately began to smash the New Deal and the Great Society to pieces. Once I thought that effort to shift the country right was a Republican plot. Now I wonder how early the Democrats were in on it. Looks like at least as early as 1968.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Strife Delivery Yeah, I thought that
Yeah, I thought that maybe the term "socialist" was safe from them, since they are, and come from people who are, filled with hatred of socialists and socialism. I thought their deep distaste would keep them off the term. I guess not.
I should come up with something they wouldn't dare co-opt. I'm working on it, have some ideas.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
After My Election I'll Have Some Flexibility:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uXpHTtHnaY]
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Okay, let's be truthful here.
How many here think Markos is really embracing socialism, and conversely, how many think he is really irrelevant?
I think he's a Shepard trying to look really keen
in his nice new sheepskin overcoat.
He's so full of shit his eyes are brown.
I wouldn't trust him farther than I can throw the Netroots building.
I would count my fingers and toes after shaking hands with him.
The best way to get anything out of him is to stick your finger down his throat.
He wouldn't lift a finger to save an immigrant from an ICE agent, unless that immigrant was a supporter, wrote in, commented, wrote back, provided evidence, had that evidence dismissed, shopped around, buried by the MSM, and then recycled into political ammunition when the wrong party is in power.
He's a Hack.
Bereft of talent, he drones away.
If they hadn't propped up his site on the MSM, it would be pushing up the daisies!
This is an EX-Pundit.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rutX0I6NxU]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
He's just pinin' for the fjords.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I always wondered how
he skyrocketed to success so quickly. I mean, liberal blogs were plentiful at the time he took off.
dfarrah
Almost irrelevant
but not yet. They are having a Netroots bounce.
As for Markos, wasn't he once a Republican?
@gjohnsit Well, we all have to
Well, we all have to pull together against Russia. Our differences are so insignificant in comparison with the horror of a foreign country manipulating our politics.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think
he isn't aging well.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
LOL sort of like
cheap wine rapidly becoming vinegar.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@dance you monster He's a liar, and the
He's a liar, and the only significant thing he is doing is joining in the effort to co-opt one more term.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
irrelevant ... if he 'embraces' socialism or not
it is just not important to many people outside of their bubble world.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Ahhh, too little too late. We need Danny the Red and up
pops Hubert Humphry; it just won't do.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Whoa, flash from the past!
I learned this song (or rather the first verses) on a strike line of immigrant workers in Canada in the 1970s. Ever since then, whenever I sing it nostalgically I get the most bizarre looks even from my lefty friends.
I learned it in '67 from a fellow student at Cal who was over
her studying, but wa an actual member of the PCI. He had brought one of their banners over so that he could celebrate the 50th anniversary of the revlution properly (using the October date). The two of us marched down Telegraph Av waving the banner and singing Bandiera Rossa, much to the consternation of most of the left as well as the center and right.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
we sang that in Berlin in Germany 1967/68
and I didn't feel that people were upset about it. At that time I had no idea and knowledge how much socialists were harrassed in the US for being socialists.
https://www.euronews.com/live
equal time for Greek
[video:https://youtu.be/R7yGQGnfm9w]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
maybe we can start pushing
the concept of social communism. That will make them pull the levers a bit harder.
@QMS LMAO
LMAO
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Has Markos' head gotten bigger?
Weren't those the things that Bernie was offering people while Hillary was not?
Dream on, Markos. Warren burned her bridges when she didn't endorse Bernie during the primary you dolt. People will not vote for and as for Kamala, this will come back to bite her.
KAMALA HARRIS FAILS TO EXPLAIN WHY SHE DIDN’T PROSECUTE STEVEN MNUCHIN’S BANK
The article goes on to show how the democrats sold out the Resistance and voted to confirm Munchkin as treasury secretary.
Markie, Markie, every person you named is a moderate and not one of them will be able to beat Trump.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
another sprocket in the in the wheel of misfortune
psy-opted to prevent traction of ideas. Interchangeable characters like Reich. Madcow. Portrayed as pulling for the people long enough to have cred. Then change the meanings of concepts. Liberal, progressive, socialist, democratic. Labels co-opted by the propaganda machine. A greedy power monger is just that, whatever covers they use. The next wave will use terms like "single payer" or "green economy" just long enough to create another delusion. Then grease the slopes of reason to skew the polls again. Does anyone buy this crap anymore?
Y'all are missing it...
my crystal ball predicts a Hillary run in 2020 as a, wait for it, a reinvented Socialist.
Perfect!
Your timing is impeccable, JtC!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Pages