My search for a 2500 year old book.

So, as I've mentioned, I've been trying to hunt down a physical copy of Antisthenes' "Odyssey" because I'm interested in viewing how the character of Odysseus was viewed by Antisthenes. From what I understand he had a somewhat more nuanced view of the character, and saw his actions as not heroic, but pragmatic. I find that commentary concept fascinating, since it reduces the character somewhat, and yet makes his journey all the more heroic, sans the gods and the mystical creatures. (Or rather, there are more mundane and to my mind plausible reasons why a war veteran might be waylaid for so long.)

Of course, I am gleaning this from second hand sources. Searching online, almost nobody has a copy of the text. There are many references to the work, but almost all do not actually contain direct quotes, and it feels like people talking about a book they haven't read but are trying to pretend they understand through cliff notes.

So far, I've hunted down a new translation, which is the first for quite some time. Of course, it's NOT a best seller, and there are only 2 copies located within Oregon, both at college universities. I've put in the Academic request with Reed College (Which is the closer), and I'm hoping that bears some fruit. (Yes, I could probably buy a copy since it's not listed as "Out of Print" but to be honest, it feels a bit like cheating. )

Just out of curiosity, I also stopped in at Powell's City of Books, which is the biggest bookstores and used book dealers I've ever been to. Apparently the book is also fairly rare even in the original Greek, and the last time they had a copy it sold for $100, used. The only other time they had a copy was in 2001, and it sold very rapidly according to their systems.

So, I look forward to reading this when I finally get the book in hand. I'll share my own thoughts on it, since there has been a few days worth of effort to get to the point where I can read it. Considering that the book is only one of 2 works by Antisthenes to survive, and yet nobody seems to bother reading it is frightening to me. It strongly suggests that the time is rapidly approaching when great books once again are lost, not because of willful neglect, but rather because of references made to it, corrections made to the "Obvious" errors in the book, and numerous other Bowdlerizations which cause the original work to be lost, instead being "Understood" wrong, in ways that those that pull the levers of civilization want us to understand them.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkkCEP0V3PM]

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Lily O Lady's picture

books during one of the two disasterous moves we had while my husband was in the army. One was Thomas Jefferson’s “Notes on the State of Virginia” and the other was “The Art of Courtly Love” by Andreus Capilanus. My husband also lent out “Lies My Teacher Taught Me” which was never returned. Textbooks and scholarly works are horribly expensive in the US. You have my sympathy, which I’m sorry to say, is all I can offer.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

detroitmechworks's picture

@Lily O Lady I'm pretty sure the Reed College lead will pan out. (Although the overdue fines are REALLY stiff, so I need to ensure that I'm careful to take care of the book.)

There are many books I wish I still had copies of. One in particular is the "Oxford Children's History, 1983" which was extremely useful at learning the History of England from the British point of view. (Didn't shy away from things like plagues, cruelty and sheer barbarism either.) It was a gift from my Maternal Grandparents as a kid, and I got an interesting sense of what the rest of the world thought was important to speak about with regards to America. (Also had some gorgeous hand drawn artwork.)

Thanks for reading and reminding me of some great books.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@detroitmechworks

I'm pretty sure the Reed College lead will pan out. (Although the overdue fines are REALLY stiff, so I need to ensure that I'm careful to take care of the book.)

My suggestion: Digi-scan the sucker and return it immediately!

If the copyright has expired on the work, which is likely, you can even upload the scan to someplace like archive.org for a bit of fame! Smile

"Yo book is ovahdue!" -- Conan the Librarian

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

detroitmechworks's picture

@thanatokephaloides
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

WoodsDweller's picture

@thanatokephaloides
at Project Gutenberg, they didn't list it. That would be the place to upload if copyright permits. You would also need to do OCR on the scans and fix up any remaining errors, at least I think that's what the procedure is. Use a handheld scanner if possible instead of cracking the spine flattening it out on a flat scanner.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

lotlizard's picture

@WoodsDweller  
with code 403, access forbidden.

Apparently one German publisher raised a stink about six books that it alleges are still copyright in Germany (although public domain in the U.S.)

Being a volunteer project, Project Gutenberg decided the cost of handling such differences isn’t worth it.

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Shahryar's picture

@Lily O Lady

I've got the Courtly Love book so it must be readily available. Of course there's a difference between a rare edition and a newly printed paperback.

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Lily O Lady's picture

@Shahryar

a replacement would have cost nearly thirty dollars for a skinny little paperback. I don’t think my husband would approve.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Lily O Lady's picture

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

thanatokephaloides's picture

For a book published in 1954, Margaret Murray's The Divine King in England is sure hard to find, especially on "this side of the pond"!

So I know what you're going through! Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

detroitmechworks's picture

@thanatokephaloides In fact they've often gotten into trouble at school for having their noses buried in books instead of paying attention. I find that hilarious.

But yes, I really regret the loss of a great deal of my books over the years due to stupidity, poverty or necessity. Especially now with the noose of censorship tightening ever gradually, I fear for the time that even logging on will require a payment and approval to Disney/Fox to release the information from their "Vault".

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@detroitmechworks

I'm lucky both my kids are avid readers. In fact they've often gotten into trouble at school for having their noses buried in books instead of paying attention. I find that hilarious.

Been there and done that myself.

In 5th and 6th grades (1968 - 1970), there was a literacy program published by a company called "SRA". During the SRA unit, a student would take a color-coded, graded card, read the article or other contents, and then take a quiz on the same. Pass a certain number of quizzes, go up to the next color-coded grade.

The 6th grade level stuff was BOOOORRRRIINNGGG, so I'd pull the College grade cards instead and read the far more interesting stuff they had. After aceing quiz after quiz on that level, my instructor agreed that I didn't need SRA any more! Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

detroitmechworks's picture

@lotlizard the 2015 translation by Susan Prince. (Which includes the original Greek as well, from what I understand, which is extremely helpful.)

It seems to be her only book, and Reed claims to have a copy.

However, the Yale Library also appears to have it online, but of course, only for those with a Yale account. So, it's not as rare as I thought from my search... just paywalled.

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Shahryar's picture

@detroitmechworks @detroitmechworks

For years I looked for a copy of "Vita Merlini" by Geoffrey of Monmouth. I finally found it online, copied the whole thing into as file, formatted it a bit, then printed it out at home.

How long is this piece? I'm looking at about 5 pages worth of "The Logos of Odysseus".

https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/16595/1/Kennedy_WJ_Thesis...

starting at page 325.

Is this it? I would guess you've probably seen this already.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@Shahryar THANK YOU!

Reading now. Going to comment what I think here in just a minute.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@Shahryar Just finished reading it, and I've never wanted to hear something spoken aloud in the original Greek as much as now.

From what I see it's actually representative of a speech given BY Odysseus, but written by Antisthenes as a defense against the current criticisms of the character.

Really a great deal of power, talking about how war is indeed ugly, and it is easy to reproach those who take on the burden of fighting. In essence, it's a veteran's response to those who want to polish medals, talk about glory, and worry primarily about the divvying up of booty.

Considering that Antisthenes was a veteran, and a wrestler, it fits quite well with my own views of the world. It also strongly suggests from the tone that Antisthenes' opinion was not popular at the time, since it has a great deal of comments with regards to Achilles and his bravery. Of course, Odysseus calls it stupid, which I can't help but smile and laugh about.

Are you ignorant that cleverness and bravery in battle is not the
same thing as being strong? Stupidity is the greatest evil to those who have it.

And it's really powerful. It speaks to me on a very deep level, and I'm really grateful that you found this for me. Saved, and something I hope to read again, or write further on.

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