Is this the Candidate who picks up where Bernie Sanders left off?
I've been following the 2020 Presidential campaign of Andrew Yang fairly closely because he has a political vision that solves so many of America's problems. He delivers on all of Bernie's inspiring promises and puts the country on a constructive path. Like Bernie, he too will be running on the Democratic Party ticket, however, his political philosophy transcends their neoliberal corruption. If you're not familiar with Andrew Yang, this is how the New York Times describes him:
Among the many, many Democrats who will seek the party’s presidential nomination in 2020, most probably agree on a handful of core issues: protecting DACA, rejoining the Paris climate agreement, unraveling President Trump’s tax breaks for the wealthy.
Only one of them will be focused on the robot apocalypse.
That candidate is Andrew Yang, a well-connected New York businessman who is mounting a longer-than-long-shot bid for the White House. Mr. Yang, a former tech executive who started the nonprofit organization Venture for America, believes that automation and advanced artificial intelligence will soon make millions of jobs obsolete — yours, mine, those of our accountants and radiologists and grocery store cashiers. He says America needs to take radical steps to prevent Great Depression-level unemployment and a total societal meltdown, including handing out trillions of dollars in cash.
“All you need is self-driving cars to destabilize society,” Mr. Yang, 43, said over lunch at a Thai restaurant in Manhattan last month, in his first interview about his campaign. In just a few years, he said, “we’re going to have a million truck drivers out of work who are 94 percent male, with an average level of education of high school or one year of college.”
“That one innovation,” he continued, “will be enough to create riots in the street. And we’re about to do the same thing to retail workers, call center workers, fast-food workers, insurance companies, accounting firms.”
To fend off the coming robots, Mr. Yang is pushing what he calls a “Freedom Dividend,” a monthly check for $1,000 that would be sent to every American from age 18 to 64, regardless of income or employment status. These payments, he says, would bring everyone in America up to approximately the poverty line, even if they were directly hit by automation. Medicare and Medicaid would be unaffected under Mr. Yang’s plan, but people receiving government benefits such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program could choose to continue receiving those benefits, or take the $1,000 monthly payments instead.
There will be a fairly long earning curve on Wang's proposal, just as there was on all of Bernie's "socialist" ideas, so he's getting started early. But once the People understand what they are hearing (and what they are facing, otherwise) there may be a populist groundswell. Americans are being robbed of their rightful inheritance of this civilization. It was left to all of us by all the people who put their hard work into building it. They did not leave to corporations and politicians to asset strip and privatize its value, and then charge us again for something that was already paid for. Where is our profit sharing? Where are our dividends? Meanwhile, I suspect that the elites may like it even more because it rescues capitalism (and them). “I’m a capitalist,” says Yang, “and I believe that universal basic income is necessary for capitalism to continue.”
Yang, who is also an author, has up-branded Universal Basic Income, a policy that is being vigorously debated, discussed, and defended in academic circles, think-tank, and newspapers. It's an old idea that has finally arrived, gaining great favor among the Silicon Valley technologists. Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Andrew Ng, Pierre Omidyar, and Ray Kurzwell are among the many early adopters that are expressing support for the idea of a universal basic income. Y Combinator, the influential start-up incubator, is currently running basic income experiments with 3,000 participants in two states.
Andrew Yang points out that these payments would bring everyone in America up to the poverty line, at least. I see it a little differently. The payments would allow all American to purchase the basic Human Rights that are denied them in the US, such as the right to affordable housing and freedom from hunger. Once they have the necessary Human Rights to secure their day-to-day survival, they can stop scrambling for the next meal and spend time exploring their ambitions and dreams and developing a fulfilling life for themselves.
Because the top question here and elsewhere is invariably "How will we pay for it?" I've added a short interview where Andrew Yang explains it. That part of the puzzle has always been a happy story. See for yourself:
This is something we can do.
Comments
Uh,
a Grand a month? 12months times... carry the two... yeah,mThat shit ain't gonna work.
What happens when my job finally goes away and This is what I'm Left With?!? And fuck the riots in the streets, Giggle earth shows locations for Marches on the Manors! This fuckwad is covering his ass cause he knows it's slimjims with the rest of the greedy fucks that got us here.
You want a Real Bernie guy? Look at NY19 for congress in the dim primary. I almost shit myself when I heard This American Life broadcast a Full Show on this guy last night. I know, I know; TAL? Really?
Gaaaa, asphasic right now, I'll be back with the name on edit.
Edit: Okay, the mans name is Jeff Beal and the shows title is 'It's my Party and I'll try if I want to!'
fuck all wars
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
An extra thousand dollars in the hands of all Americans
...every month boosts the GNP several points. It will grow the economy. It's the only thing that can.
But. . .
ya Still didn't answer the question I posed; HOW is this gonna help when the jobS go? Last I checked, minimum wage was a Might higher than 12k a year and NOwhere in US-istan can one rent a family abode on minimum: the whole famdamily has to work to make. Even little Timmy collecting coal in the street is a big help!
Do I need a snark tag?
fuck the wars
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I got the snark, lol.
This is the start not the end. It's a number. By the time it's implemented, it will make economic sense. The object of the game is getting everyone used to the idea quickly. There's no other way to get the money into people's hands. There is no other mechanism. We don't all need to work to make money. We need to spend money to make money. Some need to stay home and take care of the kids and community to make money. Some need to do crafts or volunteer. Some need to invent things or sell things. Some need to go to school, some to teach. Some will collect a lot more money, some will have less. No one will need to sleep in the street or starve. People need to adapt.
With UBI, you'll be living the same life you are living now. Your job will still go away, if it's going away. You'll get the same severance package or settlement either way. You'll have the same opportunities to retrain either way or the same opportunities to buy or start a business of your own. If you can't pay your mortgage, you'll lose your house either way. Those things aren't changing.
With Wang's plan, there's a vision and goal for complete reform under a new paradigm. Everything else is more of the same kabuki. You should look deeper because it goes a lot deeper.
I can understand
getting the money into the hands of the people quickly; I just don't give a shit about gnp, gdp, or any of that bullshit,mumbo-jumbo, fake science(yeah, I went there!). Economics is more an art than a science,imo, and these bastards twist the Empirical info to fit their ideology/world view.
Some commenters below say it better than I can.
don't fuck war,
it breeds when you do
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
@Pluto's Republic In this political
In this political context, I don't think good policy is possible, even if you start with a good idea.
In this case, I expect that if Universal Basic passes, we will soon see an argument that wages need not be raised; even, perhaps, an argument that minimum wage is anachronistic and unnecessary, like the appendix, or the Senate.
Then we will be left with a bunch of people living on $12,000/year, which is slightly below the poverty line as established by the federal government, which we all know is considerably lower than what it takes to be poor.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
???
"The object of the game is getting everyone used to the idea quickly. There's no other way to get the money into people's hands. There is no other mechanism."
No other mechanism to get money into people's hands quickly? What about the Trump tax cuts? They may be regressive but they do some good in putting more money in peoples' pockets. How about some big fat raises? How about some loan forgiveness? How about some reasonable COLAs for soc sec recipients. For that matter, let Mr Yang convince Trump to send a check to everyone, or convince all of the wealthy people to distribute some of their ill-gotten gains back to the population.
There are plenty of good ideas floating around already that already have political support (from the voters). And now we have someone pushing a different idea for everyone to get 'used to' quickly.
Maybe this is just a diversion, just like Obama was just a diversion. Get everyone talking about this so that they ignore all of the other viable solutions that the 1% don't like.
New York Times? Gee, I recall how the media shoved empty-suit Obama down our throats.
And you call this a 'game?'
dfarrah
@dfarrah You are right in
You are right in that Trump's tax cut put money into people's pockets, too bad almost all
of that tax cut went to the .1% who have no desire share any of it with the 99.9%. Maybe you are enjoying those golden showers, but the people who need the money and will make sure it gets back into the economy are not.
I did not
say that it was the best taxing arrangement, and clearly it isn't.
I merely noted it. It is a just small boost for the regular citizen, but it is better than nothing for now.
And considering how little the dems have done for the workers, and how dem leadership mocked this little improvement (after they've bailed out the moneyed interests), I'm glad that someone actually thought to put a few extra dollars in the workers' pockets.
dfarrah
Problem is, a thousand bucks without a job
is just a thousand bucks. And try to get more from the bastards when inflation causes bread to cost ten bucks a loaf.
No, there has to be a much deeper solution to how all humans can exist equally on the planet. This one sounds like the road to outright slavery to the wealthy class.
@Big Al I admit that when I
I admit that when I see Zuckerberg and Omidyar rallying around something, I tend to walk the other way.
Not that I think Universal Basic Income is a bad idea, in itself, but it's fairly obvious that one cannot expect the current powerholders to deal with any idea honestly or fairly.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yep, I'd take them a lot more seriously
if they put their money where their mouths are and start paying their employees I dunno, let's say $30/hr minimum, instead of minimum wage or barely above it in what basically amounts to sweat-shop conditions (I'm looking at you, Bozos!).
This shit is bananas.
Like all the "well connected" "tech executives" he has no
connection with reality. He says that automation will cause 70% unemployment, but that $1000 a month will "save capitalism". He's living in a dream world.
On to Biden since 1973
What neither Zuckerberg nor Musk, nor probably any
other billionaire, advocates -- or presumably, even comprehends -- is the necessary confiscation of "excess" wealth (I won't bother to argue with anyone about what that comprises) in order to offset the geometric accumulation that is a fundamental operating principle of capitalism.
Universal Basic Income is meaningless if the 0.0001% continue to demand an always-rising fraction of the total economic output of the planet.
Even encouraging the ultra-wealthy to pour the money into charitable foundations will not solve the problem. That's pretty much how things were working in Europe in the 15th and 16th centuries, with the result that by the reign of Henry VIII, the church controlled an unsustainable -- and ever-growing -- fraction of England's productive capacity. Inevitably, the managers of that wealth were corrupted by it, and used it to put a stranglehold on English society and on the English state.
Henry was fortunate to have both the audacity and sufficient support amongst the nobility to do the one thing that can be done to address such an accumulation: He took it.
And that's what will need to be done in our current circumstance as well.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Got to say amen to that.
This certainly does not preclude
...redistributing the excess wealth clogging the system.
At the very beginning, however, we absolutely must lift all Americans out of poverty. It's killing all of us and destroying society. That's something we can do right now. Suffering is optional.
i'm glad you'd featured this part of his math, cuz that's
usually at the base of the math on UBI (although the two tries in switzerland was more complex an algorithm, but both failed, dunno in the past five years if one ever succeeded or not, and i'm no longer in contact with my e-friend there.
"This would be paid for by consolidating existing welfare programs..." well, i reckon he might just mean what's left of the 'social safety net', but if he means the welfare payments made to bigAg, bigPharma, bigOil, on down the line, that might be a whole 'nother thing.
i dinnae find his foundations' net worth, contra the promised bingle hits, but: yang’s net worth $2,147,483,647 in 2018. now on the other hand, another 'entrepreneur' (of the non-profit industrial complex h/t wrong kind of green) (this made be giddy as a school girl:
but as for DACA, it was an obomba con, and as for rejoining the weak-sauce voluntary COP protocols...too late, and it has been for years before Boss Tweet pulled out of them.
good-lookin' chap, though, isn't he? the venture's board of directors. lol-ish, esp. the UBS banker, imo. noblesse oblige or something else?
anyhoo, thanks for introducing him to us, pluto's republic.
" Consolidating"
is just another word for massive layoffs, salary adjustments, and skirting age discrimination laws.
dfarrah
Gosh. So much
bullshit.
Freedom dividends? Spare me. When people want to sell something that is bad, you can count on some patriotic jingo to accompany it.
Trump is already talking about consolidating the welfare agencies.
Holistic health? That's already been around forever. That does not stop the greed surrounding the health care industry. Adjust doctor's wages? They are already under attack by the oligarchs, just like all wages are under attack.
Cheaper drugs? Capitalism has no place in health care? As it is now with capitalism running things, hospitals are running out of generic drugs and items they need in emergency rooms. Hey, capitalists are not going to produce something that does not make them wealthy.
Human capital?? This sounds like the usual juggling of terms that has taken place over the decades. A clerk is not a clerk, no, they are really an accounting technician.
Ugh. This guy is just using new words to obfuscate what has been going on already. He is straight out of the neo-liberal playbook.
dfarrah
What happens at 64?
When the UBI payments end and there are no work credits for Social Security? Just lay down and die? Or beg?
$12K a year, just enough to avoid starvation and be homeless. So all the young people can compete to be servants and whores. Great vision indeed!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I always did like Huey Long
Rich =/= Evil. It's a far, far less linear world than that - but clearly, you can never have very many trillionaires without turning everything into Zimbabwe (pity that Tim Berners-Lee had to "prove" his nobility by not asking even a mille on the pound for his invention, otherwise HE would have been the first).
Here's the key: The cap, just like the minimum wage, should be PEGGED TO A PERCENTAGE OF INFLATION, POPULATION, AND THE GNP (anyone else recall Ralph Nader calling for more than just a static hike to the minimum wage all the way back in 2000?).
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Core concept
"... in order to offset the geometric accumulation that is a fundamental operating principle of capitalism."
That is relevant, and that it has been going on for so long already is what is really relevant.
@UntimelyRippd the necessary
the necessary confiscation of "excess" wealth (I won't bother to argue with anyone about what that comprises) in order to offset the geometric accumulation that is a fundamental operating principle of capitalism.
Universal Basic Income is meaningless if the 0.0001% continue to demand an always-rising fraction of the total economic output of the planet.
Absolutely right, and you're getting universal basic applause from my whole family.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hard to get excited over this
guy if he is similar to musk or zuckerberg.
Can't we find anyone who isn't a snake oil salesman or borderline sociopath?
dfarrah
snake oil salesmen and borderline sociopaths
We can find them easily enough; it's getting them into uncompromised power that's the heavy lift!
After all, if merely "finding them" was enough, we'd run JtC for President and be done with it....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I suspect our biggest problem is lack of vision.
New ideas have a learning curve, some steeper than others. Then the normalization can begin.
Andrew Yang: 2020 Presidential Candidate with Transhumanist Values
If the Millennials come out to vote, we'll be living in their world. Thank god.
Right.
Lack of vision and a learning curve that is just too tough for us non-millennials, and Yang is just beyond our tiny capabilities.
How insulting.
I think if people had better bull-shit detectors, the world would be an immensely better place.
But it's the bull-shitters who typically come out on top, and even after they are done scamming everyone, at least 1/2 of people still admire them.
And I no longer have a rosey view of the tech industry. It's not oh-so-kewl to me that the tech industry is a big black hole of endless money-grubbing, forcing the rest of us to be stuck with their products. It's not kewl to me that we now have to pass right-to-repair laws so that consumers don't have to have a battery changed at a huge cost. It's not kewl to me that the techies have the rest of us completely at their mercy across a huge number of products. It's not kewl to me that all of our information is at the mercy of the techies. It's not kewl to me that the tech industry and defense industries are joined at the hip. It's not kewl to me that consumers have no choice because of the consolidation in the industry. And on and on. I guess I have to shut up sometime.
dfarrah
@dfarrah Don't shut up.
Don't shut up.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
techies
You don't have to shut up. Many of us, myself included, would prefer you didn't.
I agree with you regarding this whole above quoted paragraph.
And I am a techie!
I daresay you'd find solid support among the techies in the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) community!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Because humanity sucks
and machines do everything better, life must be replaced.
From your link:
We're talking such as going-underground-Monsanto/Bayer, of Google and Ray Kurzweil working toward The Singularity and similar charmers such as billionaire Peter Thiel, over humanity and nature, trying to con Progressives into supporting more of their candidates/representatives running for public office. As though Google wasn't already twinned into the White House and government generally when Obama was in...
Coming from you, this support really surprises me. Or are you perhaps not yet aware that Transhumanists are the direct and fatal opposite of humanists? In with the 'not reality-based, we make our own virtual reality really real' Bush league crowd?
Psychopaths tend to use/despise humans because we have all those 'weak' survival emotions like empathy and tendencies toward ethics and independent thinking and they'd prefer that humans be replaced with machines because both psychopaths and machines are incapable of human ethics and empathy and the latter can be programed and never need to be paid, rest or sleep.
Here they're talking not yet of full machine replacement but of cyborgs where, rather than humans using tools, they can become tools - because humans aren't as good as machines to this lot. They have no concept of intrinsic human worth - and if they can rebuild/control/track/monitor-chip humans to serve their purposes, going by everything we know of these, they will. We're talking psychopathic control-freaks who want to micro-manage the world.
They claimed that globalism was 'inevitable' - how is that working out for the the poors and other fast-diminishing life on the planet sacrificed to the profiteering of The Right People Worth Something In Real Money? They also claimed that Hillary was 'inevitable', something only avoided via Trump - backed by such as Peter Theil and *Robert Mercer, the latter of whom was quoted in an interview I read previously as preferring the company of computers to people.
This 'inevitable' meme of theirs seems to have been taken from the old 'If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it' canard, ignoring the fact that the victim is being devastated, damaged in likely multiple ways and possibly infected with something nasty and even incurable; seemingly, only the rapist - in any sense of the term - enjoys the 'inevitable' experience.
This is the ultimate repudiation of both humanity and of our relation to nature. Of Life itself.
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/transhumanism-should-we-use-robotic...
Thanks, I'll live and die a humanist myself.
Progressives want humanity in public policies, respect for human lives and individuality, and better lives for humans, not to make humans 'better' by making them more machinelike to suit The Psychopaths That Be who want to control and more freely use them.
* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5514535/The-secretive-billionair...
This following article is ginormous and very comprehensive, including much I'd read elsewhere back in the day and much more, often in better detail and I'd term it a must-read in full at source if at all possible.
This is where Trump got a lot of his programming and much of his horrendous staff - ultimately including Bolton, if not at the time of this article's writing. The author is, unfortunately, a Clinton apologist, but a damn good investigative reporter; not sure if her bias has affected anything, but much of this may be familiar, which may be all we can hope for in this propaganda blitz, which is an issue which must always be kept in mind.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/27/the-reclusive-hedge-fund-t...
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/donald-trump-rebekah-mercer-227799
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
LOL, Ellen. I'm crushed under the weight of your words.
Seriously, whew!
My bad, those words you refer to did not come from me. I was quoting a description of Yang's policy positions printed in a document from the Transhuman Party. Andrew Wang is not a transhumanist candidate any more than Hillary was a Teamster — although they both were endorsed by these various entities.
I didn't want to pull the transhumanists into this discussion, but since you have done so, let's get it right:
First of all, the endorsement came from the Transhuman Party. But you are going on about folks once associated with the Transhumanist Party, which is a Completely.Different.Organization. Anyway, I'm not sure what that pisher Mercer has to do with any of this. His connection to what UBI is about is like Rachel Maddow connecting the dots.
It is not your fault though and it is completely understandable. In 2016, the transhumanist movement blew up like a new universe and coalesced into two very different ideologies. I had a ringside seat on this because I was following the presidential campaign of Zoltan Istvan, leader of the Transhumanist Party. (This is relevant to c99p only because it is relevant to the disappearance of hecate.) The mere mention of Zoltan Istvan's ideology, here, in 2016, almost tore a hole in the fabric of the universe. So, we’re dealing with the laws of physics, which is why I didn't mention the Transhumanists in connection with Andrew Yang (or his "virtual" political "affiliation") but I needn't have bothered. Cats and dogs started sleeping together all over this thread the moment I clicked "Publish." Lord have mercy. You have to get up pretty early in the morning to put something over on C99p. They can smell that sulfur in the air.
Interesting how an intuitive like The Liberal Moonbat picked right up on the source of the disturbance down below. Coincidently, I happen to have an essay ready to go on Silicon Valley's longevity drugs and immortality program. It was up next. A veritable WMD festooned with Orwell quotes. O the humanity! Heh.
Anyway, suffice to say, the "Transhumanists" allegedly turned Libertarian. And the "Transhuman" movement now identify as Progressive. They’re still dividing up the community property. It's a very messy divorce. Nonetheless, both sides along with myself, all three entities, have something important and disturbing in common: We can see into the future with reliable accuracy. It's a curse, I tell you. It's all we really want to talk about because it already happened in the spooky space we occupy, and there's never anyone to talk to. The soulful folks that I like are all caught in the web of time. Story of my life.
I'm sorry if I was misled by your link, and those supporters,
although I also have little trust for any of the hyperwealthy or for the tech-better-than-human crowd. But you were one of the last people I'd have expected to have supported Transhumanism and it startled hell out of me to think that you were. (That's actually the wish for Immortality for Billionaires turned into a 'political' movement where they pretend that everyone will be 'technologically enhanced' in a good way.)
Actually, the link there is through Trump who's been supported by some of the most secretive billionaires in a group which exerts great influence over not only Trump but public policy, apparently including the Supreme Court.
From that humongous article, emphasis mine.
However, according to what I've read, they'd still be proceeding on the theory that more votes would be generated in 2020 by somebody else in the upper 1% saying that he's anti-establishment and running on progressive issues, as Trump to some limited extent claimed to, which is why they backed him and got him elected, (
probablymostly due to Hillary).But Trump having since given himself away, it would not be surprising if they fielded another fake quasi-progressive/anti-establishment hyper-wealthy candidate, as they did Trump, knowing that those 'optics', in any guise, was what would win the Presidency over the regular type of selected corporate candidate, to ultimately do specifically their bidding over that of other billionaires. And of course, the Transhumanists seem to be pretending that neither Bernie nor any actual grassroots Progressive would run - and know that this would in any event split the vote, so worst-case scenario, they get another corporate President as their representative anyway.
This group of billionaires, despite their secrecy, appear to be everywhere - while a number of billionaires are promoting UI at pathetic levels as low as $500 a month, allowing nobody to actually live under a roof or eat decent food. Certainly never both at once.
Perhaps the most horrifying thing is that the more public of these billionaires are being treated - and presented to the public - as though qualified to make public policy recommendations, merely because of being ridiculously wealthy, too-often through predatory practices...
It's been pointed out that UI (which is a great and, I think, necessary solution, if done as a guarantee of a basic living income level as a basic human right) can be introduced as an excuse to dispose of what remains of the social safety net and then abandoned as 'not working' - and I notice that getting rid of what the US still terms 'welfare' often seems to be one of the first things mentioned...
https://www.fastcompany.com/40549433/andrew-yang-wants-you-to-vote-for-a...
(Note that in this view, the 'monetary market' controls the people, and deigns to 'structure their days' - meaning those who control the monetary market by having nearly all of the money. Give us Democratic Socialism, or us Poors'll get nothing but death in this jobless, redundant-human machine-populated future.)
But how is adding in a new consumption tax most affecting the people requiring this money - and already having not enough to survive on even without extra taxes - going to cover the cost of everyone getting it?
The US trickles out tiddley winks for what's still termed a 'public safety-net', so while that might make something of a difference for a relative few billionaires, what's the funding for that going to do spread among the entire population of several hundreds of millions of people?
As President, Andrew Yang evidently doesn't plan on collecting tax from the wealthy (who will also get the same stipend as the most desperate and still-struggling - an actual guarantee of a living-level income for all is essential) because:
and Yang evidently feels that nothing can be done, if he were President, to have those already typically sucking up a good chunk of what ought to be the people's wages pay even their own share of taxes - while at the same time, low/no wages ensure that the population cannot cover the taxes on what should have been their share of the money which the companies/billionaires (sucking up both the workers and the nations share of wealth) will also not pay and are permitted not to pay by complicit politicians who they fund into public office, where not now taking public office themselves.
So, Yang's shown right there that he's thinking in terms not of helping the American people but of enabling hyper-wealthy people like himself to continue evading their civic responsibilities and to throw even more of the weight on the public, whether he consciously thinks of it that way or not. Because that's been found to be all-too-typical of the mindset of the hyper-wealthy.
And under this plan, whether intended or not, it won't take long after the final shreds of the US safety-net are dismantled for the UI to be declared unsustainable, leaving The Poors in the lurch with no means of earning anything, no old age/disability pensions and not even food-stamps, inadequate as they are. All remains of even the concept of the public good dissolved to be recycled and retained by the relative few.
And whether intended or not, that happens to be what a number of these billionaires have been working toward for a very long time. So, they tend to leap to mind.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
the
"disappearance of hecate" has nothing to do with Zoltan, Zetar, Zardoz, or any other zoo animal rattling the cage to get its body hacked up.
Highlighted key phrase
Facebook suspended the company from their platform on Friday, following reports it had harvested the profile information of more than 50 million users without their permission. Facebook is the gate-keeper.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Agree! The hyper-wealthy/business interests
have no place in public policy; they at best necessarily lack the required perceptions and personal experience to have any understanding of what life is like or could be like for the general population.
The mind-set and priorities are all wrong for any such position.
What's needed are people with skin - and family, or at least concern for the future - in the game, where it's no longer 'I have a ginormous luxury bunker; my kids can emigrate to Mars by the time all this falls apart; I eventually had to pay back that million bucks my father lent me/we had to live off our investment income going through college, so I understand hard times.'
What's needed is a government of, by and for the people, the ones who care about people and the country overall, not about making personally making even more billions of dollars and gaining political power over a country, quite possibly to personally gain even more money to achieve trillionaire status that much faster.
There's a whole different mind-set involved between personal money-makers and real public-interest policy-makers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72S6hkpmug4&index=99&list=PLXctIVhQimRKz...
Because Big Money must be removed from politics.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
While it would be great to have this national discussion
about the "robot apocalypse", I agree with the other commenters. The UBI is not enough and we have to put an end to the insane wealth accumulation at the top.
Plus, if all those rich fuckers are for it, doesn't that kind of make you suspicious?
UBI
So far, we've only got one rich fucker advocating for it. (I may be wrong about that, though...)
But in order for UBI to work as advertised, the insane wealth accumulations at the top will indeed have to go. As will the insane wealth waste on being the world's unpaid policeman.
And to answer your question: anything 0.1%ers like Yang advocate so hard for makes me suspicious as hell!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
He pans to pay for it with a VAT!
So he assumes that people will pay for their $1000 a month with a consumption tax. The uber rich don't pay consumption taxes. It's a con - a transfer of wealth to the uber rich disguised as a universal subsidy - and it won't work, for the obvious reason that no one will be able to buy anything with only $1000 a month.
On to Biden since 1973
Watch the video
Learn.
The VAT is not on people. It's on robots.
A VAT is a VAT is a VAT.
All taxes are levied on people. Robots do not transact money in their own right. And a VAT is a VAT is a VAT. At the working-class person's end, the effect is identical, which is one reason why the USA and its subordinate bodies politic have been reticent to impose such regressive taxes. The effect is to discourage consumption, even of necessities; and a VAT is a regressive tax because the poorer one is, the more burdensome a VAT tax is on one.
And if you think a mere tax will dissuade the 0.1% from moving all labor to robots, which have no personal lives or personal rights to consider, you are seriously mistaken. And we have lots and lots of past track record to prove that, too.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
All right Pluto, I did watch the video
and I still say it's snake oil. Well meaning snake oil perhaps, but snake oil.
He says that his "Freedom dividend" will be optional, but $1000 is so inadequate (even to the pathetic American social supports) that the only people who will accept the option are those who don't need it. Then he (actually the t-ball serving interviewer)goes into the Canadian example.
The Canadian study: in the first place the Canadian study used only what Americans would call welfare recipients. The benefit level was much larger than their normal beenefit (I ran it through a US Labor Dept inflation calsulator - it came out to $48,000 a year) And it was temporary - the participants knew that the program would end, and they knew when. They were not idiots, they prepared. They saved and invested it in long term advantages, they went to school, they started a business, they bought a car to get to the job they would get with the training that they were able to afford to get. All things that would not be possible with this plan.
On to Biden since 1973
Another anal fuck, as usual, I see.
Another anal fuck, as usual, I see.
Grump. (Rhymes with "Trump".)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Nope, apparently Zuck
Nope, apparently Zuck and Musk and Omidyar think this is a peachy idea.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Zuck and Musk and Omidyar
Then Big Al is right: that's reason aplenty to oppose it!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Lol, a whole swack of billionaires seem to be
but they seem to be typically suggesting $500 a month...
Edit: hey, cool, a letter-typo and a missed space in one short sentence - how's that for variety!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
DINGDINGDING
Winner, Winner! Chicken Dinner!
fuck the wars
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Know what? He'd get my vote
I grew up in Silicon Valley (yes, I caught that he's from New York), and while I can't be sure what's changed or what I would have learned if my family hadn't moved in 2002, it's been more than a little disturbing to hear everyone very suddenly turn on it (to read The Guardian, which is normally good about most things, you'd think everyone there was in the Sigma Alpha Epsilon frat), and I frankly don't know what to believe. The new conventional wisdom not only contradicts what I lived, it permits no room for it even as a possibility.
I mention this because what I DID experience is a certain spirit that nobody talks about anymore, and I actually felt a little of it with this guy. It's been years since I've felt that. We need it.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
I spent a lot of time in the Silicon Valley culture
I know what you mean. Things were possible, ideas were entertained, we could create the future.
It's a low-info cranky night, is all. In six months, folks'll think they thought of it first. That's cool. Just got to get the word out.
I like reading young voters who talk about UBI
They haven't lost their natural attraction for a utopian society — something the US could afford many times over. Their ideas are spontaneous and honest, if a bit rash here and there. I hope they win in 2020. This commenter based his scenario on a $2000 per month dividend, which he felt was the right amount.
UBI might let people dream again about how to make things fair and good.
May I interject a bit of reality here?
It's blatantly obvious that this idea was originated by a MAN. It doesn't work like that for women - we can't just turn our fertility back on at age fifty or whenever the kids are grown and gone. The fertility is gone, too. Ever hear of MENOPAUSE, man?
What this sounds like, is a stealth recipe for serial monogamy or polygamy - if you want more children, turn your old wife in for a newer, fertile model. Fuck that noise.
Also, what woman in this day and age really wants to have more than two or three children? Ever notice that wherever the status of women rises enough that they can control their fertility, they DO control it and the birth rate drops?
All this noise about "raising 9-10 children" comes right out of Reagan's "welfare queens" whingeing and is just as irrational. NO woman puts herself through that for any amount of mere money.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
@TheOtherMaven So glad to see you,
So glad to see you, Maven.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
+6.022E+23!!
I thought your contention so nice, I reposted it twice!
Like all Utopian ideas, this one will only work in Utopia -- i.e., no (U) where (topia).
Not only did the idea come from a MAN, but from a far and away too rich man into the bargain. Wile reason enough to resist the idea, I respectfully submit yours is better still!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Hmmmm. And
what exactly came of all the wonderfulness you describe, with all your ideas and such?
We aren't low information. We've seen this all before, over and over.
But I will admit to being cranky about the zeal over yet another charismatic stuffed shirt.
dfarrah
not our first rodeo
With the same results every time: the uber-rich get richer while all the rest of us lose what little we've got with no way to get it back.
Count me in on that one, too.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Once upon a time,
We can all thank Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs and the other tech giants for the low opinion people now have of the tech industry. Exploitation, greed, incompetence doesn't get any better just because the human uses a computer.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I would add
deliberate malice to employees and consumers to your list.
dfarrah
@The Liberal Moonbat I suspect many people,
I suspect many people, like me, were absolutely idealistic about the digital revolution in the 90s and early oughts. We've now had at least ten years of seeing that the info tech upper class are not only happily in bed with the rest of the upper class but are to some extent helping them engineer the rotten state of affairs in which we live, particularly in the areas of surveillance and censorship.
That doesn't mean I hate every dev and coder; far from it. It doesn't mean I hate digital technology or cyberspace. But people have every reason to be suspicious of billionaires who approach us with this "I'm on YOUR side, really! And you can tell because I'm a smart, intellectual, geek! You can trust me because I have so many innovative, cutting-edge ideas!"
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
yikes!
you don't mean to say that Davos Man and Capitalist man (and women)...don't have our best interests at heart, do you? why...this january at Davos the oligarchs of the world had any number of panels on
“The focus of this year’s edition of the annual Davos meeting is on Creating a Shared Future in a Fractured World, according to the Geneva-based foundation’s website."
Cafe Babylon coverage. hindu thug narenda modi opened the festivities. me, i love davos, guess i've satirized almost every year since...ah, hell, i live in a time warp, so i dunno. hella long time close enuff?
geeks
I notice that independent developers and coders -- those who code Free and Open Source Software
(FOSS) -- tend to resemble this remark:
In many cases, FOSS developers have just spent years freeing themselves from the thrall of just this sort of person.......
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The beginning of that digital revolution
was led by the bloggers, remember Lamont? Then Bubba took them to lunch, and they joined the veal pen.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
@dkmich Thank you for
Thank you for bringing up this bit of history. I'd almost forgotten it.
I should have known then that there was no point in trying to reform the Democratic party, as they protected Lieberman, who had stabbed the party in the back repeatedly, and betrayed not only their constituents but also those politicians who were trying to take another path.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well, it’s nice to hear something new and different
I agree with the concept that trying to hold on to the past, to somehow bring back jobs that are lost to automation, is probably a lost cause. And really, do humans want to toil away in jobs on assembly lines or other drudgery? No, we don’t. We are grateful to have a job, if we do, but the vast majority do not like whatever they do for a living, it’s a grind at best, activity unhealthy for far too many. Depending on corporations to provide jobs is what keeps us stuck.
His framing of all of us as shareholders, who should receive dividends from the weath being generated in this country, is a good frame that can move us away from the idea that getting benefits from the government is a bad thing... “being on the dole” — he’s reframing that as getting a dividend check. I think it’s beneficial to change how people think about it, and understand that we are *entitled* to share some of the wealth, and stop being afraid of claiming that.
I think our universal dividend should be a lot more than $1k/month. And we still need healthcare, which he didn’t mention. Then there’s the MIC and the wars... where is he on that? I’m not going to support any candidate who doesn’t take a clear stand against US imperialism and waging endless global war. (Yes, I know that no “serious” candidate will meet that criteria, how sad is that. But that’s the price for my vote.)
Yang is interesting, but he seems very far from a contender in the current political environment. Still, it is good to hear someone talking about the future and economic decisions we face in a different way. Thanks Pluto, I’m glad to know about him.
That's for sure:
Most of the battle is getting people to respect and value their own humanity. Americans are heading into a disaster and this helps normalize an immediate solution. Young voters will get it right away, I think, and the election is theirs for the taking.
Another fine icon you got there.
In his defense he did include single payer
but apparently he doesn't spend many words on price controls, except that part about turning doctors into salaried employees - of who? and how about price controls on medical equipment? He says that he would (outlaw?) price gouging of drugs, but he doesn't say how.
He wants Santa to give him a unicorn that shits gold bricks for Christmas because he's "special" but nobody gets hurt, because that would make him sad.
On to Biden since 1973
He wrote a book about it.
@CS in AZ
There's a picture of the cover in the essay. Click it and it will take you to Amazon. This is a deep topic that is well thought out. That's what he does as an entrepreneur. Thinks things out.
I just skimmed the high points for this essay, focusing on UBI, which I have been studying. I confess I don't have an answer about the wars. And I'm the same kind of voter you are. I don't vote for people who are not anti-war. People are going to need immediate relief sometime soon. That's why I'm passing this on.
I'd believe him if
he said $2000 a month and paid for it with a steeply progressive tax system, but $1000 and a VAT that can be passed on to the consumer? Again I would believe him if he included strict price controls, but all he's talking about is a subsidy that will be funneled through the population to the rich.
I strongly believe in a UBI, except I call it UMI - minimum - because giving it in addition to work rather than instead of work (this is an oversimplification) would only be inflationary and increase wealth inequality rather than assuage it.
On to Biden since 1973
And yet Alaska
does exactly what you describe - it distributes oil revenues to its citizens.
There is nothing new under the sun....
dfarrah
Funny, I just looked up Alaska’s oil dividend
My husband lived in Alaska for a couple of years in his younger days, and he had mentioned that to me, that they got money from the state instead of paying state taxes, so the citizens of Alaska all benefit from the state’s oil revenue.
They don’t get very much however, not enough to live on or even close to it. But it helps, and he remembers thinking it was pretty cool, getting free money from the state. He was about 19 at the time, and a couple thousand dollars of free money was a very welcome bonus.
So yeah, I agree, Alaska has already done this to a point, maybe some other states do as well. And why not expand on that idea, to all of us getting a dividend that we can live on, as shareholders in “the richest country on earth.”
oil dividends
We should ALL be getting oil dividends, since the US produces so much oil, instead of giving $50+B subsidies to Exxon and Haliburton. (I know, that doesn't address the issue that we still need to get off of fossil fuels.)
This shit is bananas.
Alaska
When, not "if", the Alaskan oil runs out, there's going to be real trouble up there.
The "offgridder" lifestyle, already an expensive toy for those rich enough to invest roughly 3 million dollars to start up, will disappear outright when (again, not "if") those properties need to start paying property taxes like similar holdings do in all 49 of the other States.
We're already seeing these effects in the other extractive industries in Alaska. Limits now exist on how much profit a fishing or crabbing vessel can make in a season; it's harder and harder to get a new mining claim established; etc.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
"He wrote a book about it."
"Click it and it will take you to Amazon." LOL no.
That's it in a nutshell though, thanks for the latest UBI tale. I may or may not look for his book at my local library, but I am certainly not going to give Bezos more profits.
Seriously? Buy our human rights back, then everything becomes un-broken somehow. Food and shelter will appear in Seattle because UBI says __________. [Log In to Prime] lol
good luck brother
@eyo Purchase human rights?
Purchase human rights?
I'm caught between being stunned and being reluctantly grateful that he even cited the concept of "human rights," which I thought had been retired. Certainly none of the current social justice warriors refer to human rights, nor even to Civil Rights, Black people's rights, trans rights, gay rights, women's right's...that's never the rhetoric anymore, because the idea of rights is being retired. At least I thought it was. Now it seems like there's a counter-narrative in which rights exist but you have to buy them. That is a reasonable extrapolation of the Citizens United decision that money is speech.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I prefer a jobs program with a living wage
Imagine more teachers, park staff, public works and workers to do it. Fund the growth of green energy and so on. Doing something for your money gives people pride, identity, and a sense of accomplishment. Handouts not so much. My take anyway.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
@Lookout Doing something for your
And that's what got us to be slaves in the first place.
Every century is going to see more and more work being done by fewer human hands.
I mean, if we need people to work, ditch the forklift and now you have 6 guys lifting things. Mundane work for the sake of work is destructive. We should be moving towards the elimination of work, not keeping it alive.
I think being productive is important
I was a teacher. Many years ago Newt suggested we teach via computer. I asked him how a computer can hug a child. We need teachers.
I built my own house with my own hands and feel a sense of accomplishment. Work doesn't have to be slavery. Nor does it have to be 40 hours a week. I think universal income is a capitalist ploy to keep capitalism alive....so does Chris -
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-oligarchs-guaranteed-basic-income-...
A jobs program with a guaranteed annual income is a more productive route. We have much to do, and I don't think robots can do the really important work. You of course may see it differently...that's ok.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Keep the forklift and the six guys
thanks and why not? Why not keep the six guys if the corporation is more profitable with a forklift doing the heaviest lifting. Give those six guys short days and full wages, however the math works out to be net positive for all.
"I'm not a math surgeon", but I was a member in a worker owned co-op where we had to learn about balance sheets, and vote where the profits would go... buy more machinery or maybe hire another worker/member, providing more steady incomes to the local community. But then the losses too, nothing like voting yourself a pay cut so the business can survive a cash flow problem. Sucks to be a capitalist owner, lol 'cause the bank always wins.
peace
amen eyo
Maximize meaningful employment AND use labor saving machines...and even AI to do things like minimize energy consumption, stream line transportation, and generally provide for the public good.
I would love to hear more about your coop experience. Did it provide you a pension?
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
My co-op experience is thirty years gone, no pension
thanks, it's been so long I had to look up their benefits. This article from 2015 says 401(k) for pension:
https://www.alvaradostreetbakery.com/bread/coop
I remember cashing in my profit share when I left, that was pretty good. Much much better than nothing.
It's good to see they stayed small, I think small is better.
Here's one in CA, not a little bread factory, a huge natural foods thingy:
Sacramento co-op members vote not to overhaul constitution after heated campaign
People don't show up to vote, that's a problem, same as it ever was. Just 'cause it says co-op doesn't mean it is fair and equitable. At least they didn't make it worse. Yet. heh
peace
Thanks...
for the story. Glad you got a little something for your labor.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
@LookoutI was a teacher. Many
Of course we need teachers. Humans teaching one another is a staple of human life. If a student has a question, unless the computer AI is so sophisticated to be able to grasp any question the student might has, it is a necessity for a human teacher to be able to explain the current concept.
Many in my family built their own homes, including my dad whom I helped build his. Seeing many billionaire capitalists latching onto UBI is concerning, but ultimately I feel that it is going to be a necessity.
That sounds pretty good. Here is my logic regarding the situation:
We as a species have always come up with intuitive ways to lessen our work load. I can't quite remember the term someone used but it was like 'efficient laziness'. We invented pulleys, levers, wheelbarrows, and more. We utilized animal labor because they could do more than we could.
Imagine retail stores 50 years ago compared to now. We have self check-out lanes popping up everywhere. In a different economy, the gains of that automation would go to the people whereas now it just goes to the top. But keeping those jobs alive isn't the answer. In a different economy, automating more and more jobs would be seen as a good thing. Instead of having a human being stand behind a till for 40 hrs a week, we can eliminate it and focus on to another matter.
We still, especially in America, live in this Protestant hyper-fixation of work. We love work, because work gives us value as a person.
Currently, yes, there are too many things right now that require human hands. So be it. Jobs program abound while shifting the gains towards the people. Fix and improve various aspects of societies.
I'm just seeing that every decade, less and less work will be required by human hands. Self-driving vehicles will be a humongous shift in that regard.
I've always been a fan of this quote by Fuller:
I love bucky
...and I agree there is no need for drudgery or even something called a "job". My point is that when we are productive...building something, creating art, cooking a great meal, growing a garden...we get a sense of accomplishment that is fulfilling...helping to create peace of mind.
As we move to the future (if we don't destroy ourselves?) the type of work we must do will evolve. Capitalism is the creator of slavery using debt as its chains.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
@Lookout My point is that
Yeah, this I can get behind.
Having a job is what prevents me from doing meaningful work
I would love to spend my days being productive at something that felt creative and meaningful. But I’m instead spending most of my days sitting, chained (by the rules for keeping my job) to a desk and a computer, in an office with fluorescent lighting. Which make me feel tired and unwell. I go home feeling sluggish and drained every workday. My job keeps me alive day to day, but it’s also slowly killing me.
Meaningful work? Sometimes I like certain projects I get assigned to, I make the best of it, because it helps pay the bills, and provides our health and dental insurance. Not because the work I do is meaningful to me though. It’s not how I would spend my days if I had a choice. I’d much rather be creative, have time to write, cook good food for myself and my family.
I can’t do those things because we have to “earn a living” instead. I would be happy to receive a dividend check each month, enough to live, to have adequate food and shelter, so I could be freed to be productive doing something meaningful.
when I hear “jobs program” I think of a lot of not-meaningful makework and fake work. Not jobs writing a short story or baking healthy bread to feed ourselves. I just don’t see that happening.
Keeping people stuck in that Protestant work ethic belief system — that you lack value and worth as a person unless you spend your time making money — is very destructive. The concept we need to move toward is that human beings deserve a “living” in this world, regardless of what each person’s particular skills and abilities and interests happen to be. We don’t need jobs to be happy. We need the freedom to be productive in ways that are meaningful to the individual. Jobs picking up trash in the park might be something that some people enjoy, but I’m guessing not many. Most would prefer to let a robot do it, and spend that day with his family or doing something fun, working on his own life projects whatever they are.
I’ve always loved that quote from Bucky Fuller, ever since I first read it decades ago, I immediately thought, yes, this is exactly right.
This!
Exactly; we need to get rid of the whole "the world doesn't owe you anything!" attitude. Bullshit! None of us asked to be born! Everywhere there are people who work hard who still can't make enough money to live on. If hard work was all it took to make you rich my mom would be a billionaire. But it doesn't work that way.
(I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't mind being a park groundskeeper; I love mowing lawn and I care about keeping parks beautiful and trash-free so they can be enjoyed by all, people and wildlife alike.)
This shit is bananas.
More emphasis on home-making as an important job
Home-making, child-rearing, care-giving. Those are the jobs we need and UBI can give us. Taking care of our homes, family, neighbors, etc. You mentioned creative activities too.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I like that idea
in part because I'm a homesteader.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
@Strife Delivery Doing away with
Doing away with paid employment would be fine, but clearly not if the same people who are currently in control remain in control. That's the elephant in the room.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Lookout Work predates
Work predates capitalism.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Shoot that was
Shoot that was meant to respond to Strife Delivery.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Work predates
Correct? Sorry, I'm tired so help me out here ha.
Definitely this. Again my examples I used was if we had a different society, not our current one.
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