Down with kings.
Two school shootings yesterday. Pretty high body count.
Clearly the most important thing that we should be discussing is the designer of the Royal Dress.
Let me be perfectly clear, I respect individual members of the British Monarchy. Which is why calling for their overthrow is rough. They're decent despots, but they retain power in their country if they choose to use it. Australia felt the full weight of their political power when they tried to cut ties, and any other member of the Commonwealth that tries it will just as quickly be smacked down.
However, I remember what C.S. Lewis remarked on those of us who hate royalty.
Monarchy can easily be debunked' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it. Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead even famous prostitutes or gangsters.
Yeah, Lewis believe that if we weren't allowed to worship kings, we'd worship worse people. In America that is absolutely the case. However, I feel that Lewis misses the point. He assumes that worship is intrinsic to the human spirit, and without it man becomes dull, uncreative and generally evil.
I don't believe it's possible to be more submissive than that. The idea that you must give up everything for a meaningless reward that will ONLY happen if you give up everything to the rich right NOW. But don't worry, you'll get your reward in heaven.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQUAo7mjs3Q]
I have been a sucker for con-artists my whole life. I know how they work. I can be fooled, and I know I can be fooled. Those who are convinced that they know everything and all the tricks are the most vulnerable to the manipulations of the ruthless. It's not easy to admit you've been fooled. Hell, most of America still won't admit that Obama suckered them royally. I use the word royally, because if you look at the American reaction to Obama, it does not fall under the category of honest criticism. He and his family are practically worshiped, complete with his wife being CALLED a goddamn Queen by the more devout.
Of course, with my ethnicity, I admit that I'm predisposed to hate Royalty. Scotch/Irish do tend to have a long memory for injustice, (Yes, I'm stereotyping my Ethnicity, but you have to admit that the IRA stuck around for a LONG fucking time) and it takes more than a few fancy clothes to get us to trust the English.
This is how Kings rise. By nobody saying No. I will NOT celebrate the continuation of a monarchy, nor the overthrowing of them to create another king with another name.
Comments
Where did the shootings occur?
I only heard about the one in Texas.
Royalty has outlived its' usefulness, if it had any in the first place.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Texas and a second one in Georgia
NRA defenders are demanding that we not count the second one because it happened after a graduation so they weren't technically students anymore.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The strategy worked.
A quick Google search for "school shootings May 18" shows only the one in Texas.
We are so fucked, aren't we?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
If you blink, you miss what is really happening.
Never bringing up the fact that none of the TVs actually have truth in them.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU7rqB9E_0M]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Well, school shootings happen every day,
royal weddings happen only every once in a while.
I can think of nothing more ridiculous and foolish under the circumstances than maintaining a monarchy system. By the circumstances I mean the class war being waged on the planet of which the peasants are losing badly. Those paying attention to this inane wedding spectacle are undoubtedly the same people who fall for all the lies and propaganda keeping the class system in place.
But in the end, the political system in this country is just as atrocious relative to maintaining a class system. It shows how difficult it is to get people to understand that a political system, just like any system, can be changed.
Why are they still doing this? Why are we still doing this?
As long as people have aspirations to join the upper classes...
I've gotten pushback from people saying that I'm "Ruining the Fairytale Wedding" and other bullshit involving kuhmbaya crap. "Oh isn't it wonderful that little POC girls can now dream of being a princess?"
I'd rather ALL the little girls not have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, thanks. I'd rather all the children not have to worry about a cop deciding that they're a "Threat" for the crime of walking down the fucking street.
Fuck em, I know which side I support in the class war.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Y7in-04Ng]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Is that what all the fuss is about?
The bride in question is not a WASP?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
She's Mixed race.
Course, doesn't mean a damn thing, since if Obama proved anything, it's that you should never trust a person who is black only when politically convenient.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
How "progressively" modern for the monarchy
I guess what's good for political virtue signaling, is good for an obsolete institute such as the monarchy.
Puts a nice sheen on things, don't it?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
You seem to have confused the United Kingdom
with the United States. We're the country where law enforcement officers get to carve notches in their guns for every unarmed person they gun down.
If the Brits want to keep their monarchy
that is none of our business. Royalty tends to be supported, I think, by people who want to be able to maintain their own positions in a relatively stable hierarchical class structure without themselves having to work very hard.
As for the The Dress, I will say that the wedding dress worn so long ago by Diana, Princess of Wales was, IMHO, and I am an accomplished seamstress if I do say so myself, was a masterpiece of the designer's art. Also a design which not very many women could have successfully worn.
Ms. Markle seems a decent enough young woman, if not a great beauty, but then neither is her future sister in law. Both of the young Windsors, perhaps remembering the debacle of their parent's marriage, seem to be choosing brides whom they can love and live with rather than trophies to please the public and the media.
Mary Bennett
When it is the obsession of the US media, it absolutely IS...
Just like the US media fetes The Saudis. Nothing bad ever came of that... except decades of war.
We see only the airbrushed, perfectly polished personas. We can see the exact same mentality towards Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and (God help us) Donald Trump.
They CANNOT be challenged, or argued with. It's disrespectful, and they give SO much back to us with their charities! /snark
And the "Man of the people" bullshit is just like when Putin runs around with his shirt off. It's a goddamn appeal to the national character of the country. Of course, it works on a lot of people. Hell, we even had Tories in this country during the revolution.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The media obsession
Maybe if everyone boycotts the sure to be televised wedding, and advertisers spend a lot of cash for no good results that might help get the point across that the USA is not a monarchical nation?
Mary Bennett
That's playing by their rules...
I will continue to disparage the very idea of monarchy, and push back against those who elevate our politicians to the same plane.
There's only one thing that the elites can't stand, and that's Parody. So with that in Mind:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka8p7AfSdWM]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Of course the
dfarrah
Somehow they still get to keep transiently held official titles
like Sec of State and President of the US government, without any 'ex' in front, though; transient time in public office for a job title for life, like royalty.
I remember people on DKos explaining to me (I never did get it at the time) why it wasn't at all weird or confusing that multiple previous office holders could be referred to in the present tense without any insult to the current holder of the office, but now it's noticeable that, especially since the Bush-2 Admin, such politically appointed insiders still get to directly politically interfere in public office they've left - in order to help The Plan along just the way that TPTB want it.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Fetishizing Royals
Is akin to hagiographical political movies. It serves a purpose. So in that respect, I do take critical note. Royal wedding dresses aside.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
So complain to the
Mary Bennett
My comment
Was not of a personal nature. You may enjoy what you will. I was questioning the relevancy of a tax supported monarchy in response to your suggestion that we shouldn't.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
where the rubber hits the road
IMHO, this is where "the rubber hits the road". The future King and his brother decided to act as their mother's children, and make this decision in this way.
And even the principal players in this particular game have grown unhappy with it. The Prince who got married today explicitly stated that no one in the family wanted to becomne King or Queen (source). The role, once among the world's most powerful and privileged, is today little more than a burdensome job rife with restrictions on various personal decisions. Moeover, the role of a British Royal doesn't even carry the wealth that it used to, (the author of the Harry Potter books is wealthier than the Queen even after British taxes) so the question "is it really worth it?" becomes quite appropriate to the situation.
And this goes double for someone in Harry's position: it is virtually certain that he will never sit the Throne, but because of his proximity, he is subject to all the restrictions (he cannot work most private-sector jobs or profess a religion of his own choosing, for just two examples). Might as well choose a spouse he can love and live with well, instead of some damn trophy.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Too bad she is exactly the trophy that was needed...
While I would like to believe the story that this is all personal decision, which has been the thrust of the PR effort, I ain't buying it.
The asshole thought it would be funny to dress up in a Nazi uniform for a party. Yah, yah, youthful hijinks and all.
If you need an example of pure privilege, you cannot get a better example than the British Monarchy. Remember the "Affluenza" teen? These guys have had it since the day they were born, and a PR guy to clean up their nappies.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Why would he
And most people stay within the religion of their families.
dfarrah
private sector job
Often, when one is a non-center-stage Civil List member, private sector employment can pay better than the Civil List stipend does.
I don't think that's the case here on c99!
And it certainly isn't the case with me, which is probably why I'm sensitive to that particular issue.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Me neither
Me neither. Actually, I've never fit in with what "most people" do, in any aspect of my life. I've never considered that to be a worthy argument. If everyone only did what everyone else was doing, human evolution would come to a quick end.
I consider myself fortunate to be living at a time when we're relatively freer to openly follow our own path. In another time and place, doing so could result in pretty dire consequences, such as being burned at the stake.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
time and place
Place, too! This discussion came up because of the consideration of the relative lack of freedom enjoyed by British Princely persons. You and I have more freedom than they do.
No joke!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I read somewhere this wedding will
cost the taxpayers of Britton 40+ million dollars including security. Just think of all the golf trips Harry could have taken for that amount of money.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Or fixed a couple Council Housing Projects...
Sorry, I'm heavily influenced by my Poor British friends on this one. Most of them hate the royals with a passion you will never see online because England has some nearly dystopian free speech laws right now.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Wrapped Grenfell Tower
in fireproof cladding like a 100 times. I read this somewhere too.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The contempt shown by elitists towards the
concerns and enterprises of the "regular folk" is always a refreshing reminder of just how horrible our socioeconomic arrangements are
Outside of his WWI service (which, as with Tolkien, pathetically failed to teach him anything about the nature of aristocratic or "meritocratic" vanity) C.S. Lewis probably never broke a sweat in his life; nonetheless he cheerfully -- even indignantly -- exalted the condemnation of armies of workingmen to lives of backbreaking labor raising the glorious edifices whose designs sprung forth from the minds of the elites; backbreaking labor that was typically rewarded with inadequate and dismal diets, vermin-infested shelter from the elements, and so on. Heavens! These odious proles recognized no greater merit in the triumphal arch than in the row of pebbles? Well, did he similarly suppose that they could not recognize the merit in a varied diet of meat, eggs, dairy, vegetables and fruit, versus a diet of bread, oatmeal, hard cheese and the occasional apple? Somehow, the small comforts and beauties that have always been potentially economically attainable in the esthetic experiences of the masses of people just don't add up to an aggregate that outweighs the grandiose vanities of the elites. Thus, in the modern era we get billion-dollar bridges to PEI and the Isle of Skye -- bridges whose primary effect is to undermine whatever it might have been that set places like PEI and Skye apart from the mainlands from which the bridges extend -- while the proles in Michigan no longer get even their annual agricultural/industrial festival (i.e., the State Fair).
On a related note, it fascinates me that the vanities of these elites typically involve a dismissive and/or reckless destruction of the extraordinary beauties that sprung not from the minds of human beings, but that they profess to believe were The Creation of the entirely singular genius that they worship so fervently and violently. We hear a lot of noise about "the natural order" when they are trying to control people (women subject to the authority of men, and so on), but they exhibit no similar devotion to the natural order when they are busily damming rivers, polluting the atmosphere, and paving the meadows.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I tend to give Tolkein a little more slack...
I find it sad that so many associate beauty, art and spirituality only to the elites, because the poor are too busy scrabbling for survival to successfully spend their waking time PROMOTING their work.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
as with anyone we choose to admire,
we must take the ill with the good in the case of someone like tolkien. while he does exalt the simple goodness of the "ordinary" hobbits, all but one of the heroic figures (Sam being the one) are either upper middle class and/or landed gentry (Bilbo, Frodo, Merry, Pippin), or nobility (Aragorn, Galadhriel, Theoden, Eowyn, Faramir, Boromir, Eomer, Gimli, Legolas -- even Bard from The Hobbit is, like Aragorn, a King without a Kingdom). throughout most of his writing (esp the Silmarillion and associated posthumously-published work), the protagonists are people who are born to greatness, whose merit and rank and authority have all been inherited.
and of course tolkien was a comically fervent Catholic. his big disappointment in Lewis was that, having been brought back to Jesus by Tolkien, Lewis chose Anglicanism rather than Papism.
what sets Tolkien apart, i think, is his romantic understanding of the lives of ordinary people. he seems to have held a pretty adamant view on noblesse oblige -- that the function and duty of the elites is precisely to enable and protect the comfortable and ordinary lives of the proles. he says as much, implicitly, in discussing the role that the rangers serve, protecting the folk of Bree and the Shire, in return for which the rangers receive not exaltation, but even the opposite: a mixture of fear, suspicion and contempt. in this, he is taking exactly the opposite viewpoint expressed by Lewis in your quote: Lewis seems to think the purpose of the proles is to exalt and enable the elites.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Good points, all.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
questioning the class system
And that's typically British. Rather than conceiving a classless egalitarian society, the Brits tend to try to "fix" what they've got instead.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
It's less worship
than it is gossip. Industrial civilization has torn us from our natural moorings of friends and family and turned us into "nuclear families" who move to strange cities to get inadequate employment, living in housing developments instead of neighborhoods. It's natural to gossip about people you know. In the absence of knowing actual people, we gossip about celebrities.
And that yellow dress Amal Clooney wore. OMFG. Just sayin'.
The tragedy of the royals is not their inherited social position, it's their wealth. Tax wealth, tax inheritance, make the accumulation and retention of wealth impossible, and they can Duchess of Suchness all they want.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
I do hear what you're saying.
I have nothing against the SCA folks, of course. They tend to be just as poor as I am, but they don't pretend that their royal events are anything other than a pageant.
It's when people mistake the pageants for reality...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aWFpwMZLK4]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I agree
It's considered gauche...
https://nativeheritageproject.com/2014/01/16/choctaw-nation-in-1847-prov...
Of course, bringing this up means that you're a southern apologist who believes that slavery was just fine... (Yes, I have seen this argument made MANY times. They call it the "Myth of the Irish Slave". Apparently bringing this up in ANY context means that you want to minimize the suffering of the slaves in the south.)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I didn't know The Wedding had already happened.
Mary Bennett
Marrying Brit royalty to America...motive anyone, excuse my
cynicism, but...?
Damn the guns.
And "how can you tell he's the King? The only one without"--Monty
I agree. We seem to be returning to colonial status
under the United Kingdom.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Pass out Joseph Conrad in elementary schools, again, perhaps
we've forgotten from where we came, or maybe i should more skeptically have written pass out Conrad in today's colleges. Spot on 'Colonizing;' backed up by war-mongering; same as it has ever been for hundreds of years, control the seas, now a methaphor atomic, in a way.
Free future children from the 'heart of darkness.'
Actually,
dfarrah
As a nation of immigrants, we seem to have several
fingers in our pie.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
The UK monarchy is a big tourist bidness making big money
When I went to London with my niece (thank you airline buddy passes), it and spring break for schools somewhere. After touring the big famous places, it became apparent that the UK monarchy and the royal trappings around it are big business. Everybody makes money off them and the tourists they attract. And they very much target American tourists. That money machine extends to the US another other English speaking countries. Imagine just the ad revenues.
Rich Americans dream of titles...
I understand respect and tradition, but they have their places. Treating politicians and royal family members with reverence was SUPPOSED to remind them that their every action has serious weight... As it is now, it just reinforces their delusion that they're better than common folk.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Long dead monarchies are also big bidness.
Tourists flock to see them. I certainly did. And I was in a crowd. Dead monarchies bring in tourist money. Current occupants are not required.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981