Thursday Open Thread 4-26-2018

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 2:50am

Good morning. Somehow I dropped the top dialog, so this week simply a farm report. Enjoy the pictures and your day, thanks for stopping by.

Farm Report
Life is easier once nature's clues for each of our local areas is learned. I need to wait until the snow has left the top of Black Butte before setting outside the frost sensitive vegetables and flowers. I am starting to get a handle on which weed emerge when the soil is warm enough for planting warm weather seeds.
soe black butte.jpg

A couple weeks ago this Asian Pear tree appeared dormant. Little early in the day for the pollinators.
soe asian pear.jpg

The Oregon Grape is protected from wind and has flies, honey bees, bumble bees and moths flitting from flower to flower.
soe butterfly.JPG

Missed the bumble bee with the camera, the honey bee wasn't as worried about my presence in the field. Dandelions are encouraged as an early crop for the pollinator. They will survive a heavy frost.
soe dandelion.JPG

Calve are taking advantage of the afternoon sun. As a teenager my Dad ran range cattle. The cows would hide the calves in tall grass and brush, similar to deer. Once took 3 days to find the calf. 24 hours was not unusual. If the cow felt you were a danger to the calf they would charge. I was very thankful for a cattle dog at my side, she would provide the extra time for me to escape the danger zone.
soe afternoon nap.jpg

Daisy has slipped back into the pattern of milking. If I decide to get a couple of dairy cows a covered milking area is a top priority. She will be milked just long enough for a yearly supply of ricotta and feta cheese. Butter will just be an extra bonus.
soe daisy.jpg

The neighbor started his sprinklers while the nights were still cold.
soe ice.JPG

I waited until today. It appears I missed some water when it was blown out last fall. Dig it up tomorrow and repair.
soe break.jpg

The pump started up with no problem. Irrigation season has begun.
soe water on.jpg

Tags:

Open Thread

resilience

Gardening

permaculture

medicine

Vote

Comments

Submitted by Lookout on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 7:38am

new methane digester generator

I came across this new take on an old idea yesterday. It looks promising to me.
https://homebiogas.com/shop/buy-the-homebiogas-system/

These composting gas makers are common in China and India where resources are limited (ie depleted). Here's several types -
http://www.build-a-biogas-plant.com/biogas-kits/

In combination with a solar oven you could create a pretty clean cooking system. Here's several commercial designs http://solarovens.net/
and a number of build your own plans here - http://solarcooking.org/plans/

I guess I'm thinking about cooking because the garden is almost completely planted. Still have hot season crops like okra yet to be planted. Already have the sweet potato slips in the ground. Harvesting lettuce and greens daily and snow peas are blooming.

Well happy gardening all. Thanks for the OT SoE.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 12:45pm

Solar cooking and methane are interesting possibilities

@Lookout for small scale impact of energy needs.

The set-up of these biogas systems in Africa appear similar to septic tanks. A lower exit for fluid waste than a typical drain field on a septic tank. A higher collection is used for for methane instead of household venting used in modern construction.

Welcome feedback from those more experienced in plumbing and construction.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by dance you monster on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 8:54am

Spring looks finally to be here in earnest.

Won't be around here today as I'm gonna be up at the farm, moving plants and strategizing the deer fencing.

These days I'm potting up the apple trees we grafted last month (110 of 'em), and (once the deer fence is up) moving last year's whips up to the farm for planting out.

Potting up 75ish fig trees of maybe fifteen varieties.

Watching the pomegranate cuttings (nine varieties, I think I recall) start to root.

The grapes we rooted earlier in the winter are doing well, the newest ones it's too soon to tell, and some more are callusing now ahead of rooting. Grapes are a never-ending propagation activity, as we'll be layering another generation in the summer.

Various organizations' plant sales are starting up, and I'm getting just a few things. Trying to do more of my own propagation now, though.

But I have a lot of hedge plants (think of it as natural deer fencing) and some ornamental herbaceous goodies that germinated in the propagation room wanting to be released from those confines, so the next several weeks are gonna be busy.

Have a good one today, growers!

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 12:58pm

Interested in hedge borders as an alternative for fencing

@dance you monster Been looking at trees after reading this article on wattle fences. Early planning phase this property. Interesting idea for those in a subdivision to circumvent a fencing limitation.

To make it cost effective my propagation skills need an upgrade. When time is available please share tips and challenges.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by dance you monster on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 6:05pm

To make it cost-effective . . .

@studentofearth

. . . you just need space. Even planting the plants five inches apart (as that wattle scheme does in the article you linked) your outcome will be cheaper than a rail fence or even wire fence and much more durable.

Remember, I'm trying to keep out white-tail deer, which can leap over a fence as much as ten feet high, especially on a slope (which we have aplenty), to get to a favorite food (which is anything we would like to grow and eat). To hire a crew to erect a proper fence around a farm the size of ours we'd be dropping $25k, minimum -- that is, if we could set poles at every interval along the perimeter, which we can't on a rocky, largely forested hillside. A hedge became our option very quickly.

We also have to keep out bears, so the hedge needs to be a serious obstacle -- and unclimbable. This will also keep out the coywolves and the valley's resident mountain lion, which kinda saddens me on both counts, but we'll still have the eagles and hawks to constrain the population of smaller critters.

We're still cogitating on the specifics of the hedge planting, but we figure it'll take 6,000 plants at a minimum. A mix of trees and shrubs on the inside of the hedge and barrier shrubs (a barrier physically and visually) on the outside. Bears can't climb shrubs, and deer will not jump where they can't see where they'd land.

To compensate the wildlife for our taking from them a favored smorgasbord the hedge will be filled with wildlife-food-bearing plants. Some will also be people food, like the hazelnuts and aronia and virginia roses. Some will be deer food. Some will be bear food. Some will be bird food. Some will be butterfly food. Much will be bee food. We'll still have all the healthy, fatted wildlife, but with the more damaging elements of that wildlife on the other side of a hedge.

The challenge, as I said, is space. Six thousand plants, if you can get every cell of a 32-cell 1020 tray to produce a healthy seedling (which never happens, but I'm getting close on some species), will still take 200 flats. That's a lot of greenhouse space, when we don't have greenhouses. We'll be doing this piecemeal over a few years, in ad hoc cold frames. And planting all these babies out in their eventual locations along 0.6 miles of periphery boundary will be its own special challenge -- preparing the site, cutting some trees that bears could climb and felling them to make a raised bed for the hedge, creating and adding soil, taking everything out there and spending the day on your knees planting, day after day, and protecting those little plants from being instantly scarfed up by ravenous herds of deer and other vermin. It's a lot to take on, but with all conceivable expenses (and some of those will yield usable infrastructure for other propagation projects, too) it'll cost one-third or at most one-half of what a good metal fence would cost, and the hedge will need no replacement, ever, which nature will do for us.

Hedging is slow, so in the first few years we'll have small areas of the farm fenced with a more common plastic deer mesh, just to be able to get started planting the orchards. We'll experience some losses with that, but we don't want to lose time ramping up food production.

Submitted by studentofearth on Fri, 04/27/2018 - 6:03pm

Thanks for the info

@dance you monster This is an interesting and impressive undertaking. Hedging does not fit with a consumerism economy. The wire and juniper (local wood) fence I grew up with lasted 25 to 40 years in irrigated fields and 75 t0 100 in dryland. The posts currently available last 5 to 10 years before beginning to rot in the irrigated fields.

Been looking at the English techniques of using hedges for livestock fencing. Lava rock is another option used locally for livestock, too short for deer. The Mule deer do not seem to like to come into the same pasture the sheep are grazed for a period of time. Just an interesting pattern I've noticed. If feed became scarce different techniques would be required.

#2.1 . . . you just need space. Even planting the plants five inches apart (as that wattle scheme does in the article you linked) your outcome will be cheaper than a rail fence or even wire fence and much more durable. Remember, I'm trying to keep out white-tail deer, which can leap over a fence as much as ten feet high, especially on a slope (which we have aplenty), to get to a favorite food (which is anything we would like to grow and eat). To hire a crew to erect a proper fence around a farm the size of ours we'd be dropping $25k, minimum -- that is, if we could set poles at every interval along the perimeter, which we can't on a rocky, largely forested hillside. A hedge became our option very quickly. We also have to keep out bears, so the hedge needs to be a serious obstacle -- and unclimbable. This will also keep out the coywolves and the valley's resident mountain lion, which kinda saddens me on both counts, but we'll still have the eagles and hawks to constrain the population of smaller critters. We're still cogitating on the specifics of the hedge planting, but we figure it'll take 6,000 plants at a minimum. A mix of trees and shrubs on the inside of the hedge and barrier shrubs (a barrier physically and visually) on the outside. Bears can't climb shrubs, and deer will not jump where they can't see where they'd land. To compensate the wildlife for our taking from them a favored smorgasbord the hedge will be filled with wildlife-food-bearing plants. Some will also be people food, like the hazelnuts and aronia and virginia roses. Some will be deer food. Some will be bear food. Some will be bird food. Some will be butterfly food. Much will be bee food. We'll still have all the healthy, fatted wildlife, but with the more damaging elements of that wildlife on the other side of a hedge. The challenge, as I said, is space. Six thousand plants, if you can get every cell of a 32-cell 1020 tray to produce a healthy seedling (which never happens, but I'm getting close on some species), will still take 200 flats. That's a lot of greenhouse space, when we don't have greenhouses. We'll be doing this piecemeal over a few years, in ad hoc cold frames. And planting all these babies out in their eventual locations along 0.6 miles of periphery boundary will be its own special challenge -- preparing the site, cutting some trees that bears could climb and felling them to make a raised bed for the hedge, creating and adding soil, taking everything out there and spending the day on your knees planting, day after day, and protecting those little plants from being instantly scarfed up by ravenous herds of deer and other vermin. It's a lot to take on, but with all conceivable expenses (and some of those will yield usable infrastructure for other propagation projects, too) it'll cost one-third or at most one-half of what a good metal fence would cost, and the hedge will need no replacement, ever, which nature will do for us. Hedging is slow, so in the first few years we'll have small areas of the farm fenced with a more common plastic deer mesh, just to be able to get started planting the orchards. We'll experience some losses with that, but we don't want to lose time ramping up food production.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 9:48am

California old growth redwoods, what is left

In 1975 I was supposed to be a sophomore at Tamalpais High School in Mill Valley California. My parents rented a house at the foot of Mt. Tam. When I was there I'd wake up, look at the mountain, look at the bus schedule, ~shrug~. I don't remember one single class that semester, but I know Steep Ravine like the back of my hand. mountain woman I had already been kicked out of Redwood High for non-attendance because I was a freshman at Stinson Beach. I mean Muir Woods people, wtf? Where would you go? It was my church and I didn't even know who John Muir was, really. Not until later.

that song made me puke

95% disappeared = 5% remaining if I can still do math.
Report sounds alarm for Marin’s old redwoods

Statewide, of the historically estimated 2.2 million acres of old growth redwoods, only 113,000 acres remain, meaning 95 percent have disappeared. Overall, there are 1.6 million acres of redwoods ecosystem in California, according to the Save the Redwoods League report released last week.

“All that logging is one of the reasons Muir Woods was protected,” Burns said. “William Kent realized there was a real risk to that special place.”

It was Kent who hatched the plan to save Muir Woods while others around him clamored for the valley to be leveled so its redwoods could be used for lumber and its creek dammed for water.
...
“Marin is a prime example of how old-growth forests were logged after the Gold Rush,” said Emily Burns, a San Rafael High School and College of Marin graduate who is director of science for Save the Redwoods League. “More redwoods were cut after the 1906 earthquake to rebuild San Francisco.”

The 1906 earthquake? Huh. Moar trees, stat! Free trade.
Northern California fires cleanup largest since 1906 earthquake, says state’s emergency director

“This effort is really the largest debris clearance operation that we’ve seen in California since the 1906 earthquake,” Ghilarducci said, referring to the monster temblor that destroyed much of San Francisco.

Round and round and round we spin,
To weave a wall to hem us in,
It won't be long, it won't be long
-- Neil Young

5% left and the climate is weirder, severe droughts and more sky-rivers expected. sheesh Better hurry up before A Friend of the Earth becomes real and entire forests blow over like match sticks in a storm.

--- morning jaw drop
Driver, 19, in deadly Petaluma crash that killed scientist, had no license

Lopez told officers he had stayed up until 1 a.m. and was tired, according to police.

Still, Lopez drove with his father in the passenger seat.

peace
namaste

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 10:51am

Well they killed off the California Golden Bear

@eyo
Which is on the state flag and for which many things in the state are named. The last one was shot in 1922.

In 1975 I was supposed to be a sophomore at Tamalpais High School in Mill Valley California. My parents rented a house at the foot of Mt. Tam. When I was there I'd wake up, look at the mountain, look at the bus schedule, ~shrug~. I don't remember one single class that semester, but I know Steep Ravine like the back of my hand. mountain woman I had already been kicked out of Redwood High for non-attendance because I was a freshman at Stinson Beach. I mean Muir Woods people, wtf? Where would you go? It was my church and I didn't even know who John Muir was, really. Not until later.

that song made me puke

95% disappeared = 5% remaining if I can still do math.
Report sounds alarm for Marin’s old redwoods

Statewide, of the historically estimated 2.2 million acres of old growth redwoods, only 113,000 acres remain, meaning 95 percent have disappeared. Overall, there are 1.6 million acres of redwoods ecosystem in California, according to the Save the Redwoods League report released last week.

“All that logging is one of the reasons Muir Woods was protected,” Burns said. “William Kent realized there was a real risk to that special place.”

It was Kent who hatched the plan to save Muir Woods while others around him clamored for the valley to be leveled so its redwoods could be used for lumber and its creek dammed for water.
...
“Marin is a prime example of how old-growth forests were logged after the Gold Rush,” said Emily Burns, a San Rafael High School and College of Marin graduate who is director of science for Save the Redwoods League. “More redwoods were cut after the 1906 earthquake to rebuild San Francisco.”

The 1906 earthquake? Huh. Moar trees, stat! Free trade.
Northern California fires cleanup largest since 1906 earthquake, says state’s emergency director

“This effort is really the largest debris clearance operation that we’ve seen in California since the 1906 earthquake,” Ghilarducci said, referring to the monster temblor that destroyed much of San Francisco.

Round and round and round we spin,
To weave a wall to hem us in,
It won't be long, it won't be long
-- Neil Young

5% left and the climate is weirder, severe droughts and more sky-rivers expected. sheesh Better hurry up before A Friend of the Earth becomes real and entire forests blow over like match sticks in a storm.

--- morning jaw drop
Driver, 19, in deadly Petaluma crash that killed scientist, had no license

Lopez told officers he had stayed up until 1 a.m. and was tired, according to police.

Still, Lopez drove with his father in the passenger seat.

peace
namaste

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 2:43pm

Inconvenient truth California symbol is celebration

@Timmethy2.0 of extinction. As the state marches forward into the future it is built on destroying past civilizations, communities and nature. The economic model for America and inspires technological growth throughout the world.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 2:36pm

Trees help create their own environment

@eyo Once the tall conifers are removed there is no structure to gently remove moisture from the wet air and fog as it moves inward and slow the winds. WE remove the green borders from the coastline and use fires as an excuse to remove more. Fire prevention the new cry of the timber industry as the reason to cut.

Nice you have memories of the quite gentle green that enfolds one in a rain forest. But is does hurt to know what we have lost and voice what we have witnessed.

In 1975 I was supposed to be a sophomore at Tamalpais High School in Mill Valley California. My parents rented a house at the foot of Mt. Tam. When I was there I'd wake up, look at the mountain, look at the bus schedule, ~shrug~. I don't remember one single class that semester, but I know Steep Ravine like the back of my hand. mountain woman I had already been kicked out of Redwood High for non-attendance because I was a freshman at Stinson Beach. I mean Muir Woods people, wtf? Where would you go? It was my church and I didn't even know who John Muir was, really. Not until later.

that song made me puke

95% disappeared = 5% remaining if I can still do math.
Report sounds alarm for Marin’s old redwoods

Statewide, of the historically estimated 2.2 million acres of old growth redwoods, only 113,000 acres remain, meaning 95 percent have disappeared. Overall, there are 1.6 million acres of redwoods ecosystem in California, according to the Save the Redwoods League report released last week.

“All that logging is one of the reasons Muir Woods was protected,” Burns said. “William Kent realized there was a real risk to that special place.”

It was Kent who hatched the plan to save Muir Woods while others around him clamored for the valley to be leveled so its redwoods could be used for lumber and its creek dammed for water.
...
“Marin is a prime example of how old-growth forests were logged after the Gold Rush,” said Emily Burns, a San Rafael High School and College of Marin graduate who is director of science for Save the Redwoods League. “More redwoods were cut after the 1906 earthquake to rebuild San Francisco.”

The 1906 earthquake? Huh. Moar trees, stat! Free trade.
Northern California fires cleanup largest since 1906 earthquake, says state’s emergency director

“This effort is really the largest debris clearance operation that we’ve seen in California since the 1906 earthquake,” Ghilarducci said, referring to the monster temblor that destroyed much of San Francisco.

Round and round and round we spin,
To weave a wall to hem us in,
It won't be long, it won't be long
-- Neil Young

5% left and the climate is weirder, severe droughts and more sky-rivers expected. sheesh Better hurry up before A Friend of the Earth becomes real and entire forests blow over like match sticks in a storm.

--- morning jaw drop
Driver, 19, in deadly Petaluma crash that killed scientist, had no license

Lopez told officers he had stayed up until 1 a.m. and was tired, according to police.

Still, Lopez drove with his father in the passenger seat.

peace
namaste

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by dystopian on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 10:30pm

@eyo

@eyo

Hey Eyo,

If I was within thumbin' distance of Muir Woods I'd have been in church there too, not at school. What a great beautiful place. I was first there in '67. Then one of the first multi day camping trips I took my girlfriend on (now bride of 35 years) in 1980 or so was to that area, from Torrance in socal. Camped on Mt. Tam, did Muir Woods, I'm a birder so lots of Pt. Reyes, Bolinas, Tomales, and Bodega Bays, surely I have made over a dozen birding trips to that area. Spectacular beauty. How do people cut down a 2000 year old tree for a picnic table and jacuzzi? There is a whole ecosystem that is a fogbelt thing, a couple to few hundred feet off the ground up in the Redwoods, besides nesting Marbled Murrelets. Which was the last species of breeding bird in America for its nest to be found, just in the 1970's as I recall.

SOE, that little butterfly in the Oregon Grape pic is a Hairstreak of some sort, perhaps one of the Juniper group, would need more detail to ID it.

In 1975 I was supposed to be a sophomore at Tamalpais High School in Mill Valley California. My parents rented a house at the foot of Mt. Tam. When I was there I'd wake up, look at the mountain, look at the bus schedule, ~shrug~. I don't remember one single class that semester, but I know Steep Ravine like the back of my hand. mountain woman I had already been kicked out of Redwood High for non-attendance because I was a freshman at Stinson Beach. I mean Muir Woods people, wtf? Where would you go? It was my church and I didn't even know who John Muir was, really. Not until later.

that song made me puke

95% disappeared = 5% remaining if I can still do math.
Report sounds alarm for Marin’s old redwoods

Statewide, of the historically estimated 2.2 million acres of old growth redwoods, only 113,000 acres remain, meaning 95 percent have disappeared. Overall, there are 1.6 million acres of redwoods ecosystem in California, according to the Save the Redwoods League report released last week.

“All that logging is one of the reasons Muir Woods was protected,” Burns said. “William Kent realized there was a real risk to that special place.”

It was Kent who hatched the plan to save Muir Woods while others around him clamored for the valley to be leveled so its redwoods could be used for lumber and its creek dammed for water.
...
“Marin is a prime example of how old-growth forests were logged after the Gold Rush,” said Emily Burns, a San Rafael High School and College of Marin graduate who is director of science for Save the Redwoods League. “More redwoods were cut after the 1906 earthquake to rebuild San Francisco.”

The 1906 earthquake? Huh. Moar trees, stat! Free trade.
Northern California fires cleanup largest since 1906 earthquake, says state’s emergency director

“This effort is really the largest debris clearance operation that we’ve seen in California since the 1906 earthquake,” Ghilarducci said, referring to the monster temblor that destroyed much of San Francisco.

Round and round and round we spin,
To weave a wall to hem us in,
It won't be long, it won't be long
-- Neil Young

5% left and the climate is weirder, severe droughts and more sky-rivers expected. sheesh Better hurry up before A Friend of the Earth becomes real and entire forests blow over like match sticks in a storm.

--- morning jaw drop
Driver, 19, in deadly Petaluma crash that killed scientist, had no license

Lopez told officers he had stayed up until 1 a.m. and was tired, according to police.

Still, Lopez drove with his father in the passenger seat.

peace
namaste

—

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 10:53am

duplicate post

This was a post meant as a reply and has been moved.

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 11:34am

Commalaw Harris is married to a corporate PAC check

D-Value Kabuki: 'Pressure Works': Kamala Harris Becomes Fifth Likely Democratic 2020 Contender to Swear Off Corporate Cash

"I think that money has had such an outside influence on politics," said Harris on Monday, two weeks after the exchange garnered attention. "...We're all supposed to have an equal vote, but money has now really tipped the balance between an individual having equal power in an election to a corporation. So I've actually made a decision since I had that conversation that I'm not going to accept corporate PAC checks."

cash and bitcoin only? shush now

,law married up to a Hollywood lobbyist, a corporate lawyer called Douglas Emhoff, Venable LLP. They are California millionaires who cannot think outside the bubble and don't need stinkin' PAC money. 501c4 baby! Dark money rules.
This page has been scrubbed because of course: http://www.venable.com/douglas-c-emhoff/
opensecrets looks different too, I don't know why:Venable LLP

bullshit for berners
all the way to the bank

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 11:37am

Good morning all and thanks for the farm report, SOE.

In a big hurry not to miss planting, I planted 6 Napa Cabbage just before our trip. We ere gone 3 weeks, during which our neighborhood was visited by two multi-day rain storms. So I come back and all of the damn cabbage has bolted, no heads, 2 to 3 foot tall flower stalks and blooming. WTF?

Ah well, we seem to have a fledgling titmouse, and a scrubbie is building a nest in a conifer near the garden, so, clearly, life goes on.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 1:16pm

Plants will play while the gardner is away

@enhydra lutris Broccoli flowers instead of raab for tonight's vegetable. Just wanted it to grow a little bigger before harvest. Our plants forgot to mimic the gardening book pictures.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by smiley7 on Thu, 04/26/2018 - 12:23pm