@mhagle

Young women also need to be educated on how to handle these types of situations.

So do young men. Apologies if this has already been posted (I seem to have arrived to this essay late), but Caitlin has hit yet another home run. I especially applaud this part:

How many men were taught at a young age that a man’s sexuality is solely his responsibility to manage and that no woman will ever owe him sex for any reason whatsoever? And if he does get the idea that he is owed sex because he paid for dinner / it’s the fifth date / she hasn’t put out in a while / they haven’t had sex since the baby, or any of the thousands of other reasons men get it in their head that a woman should put out — he is mistaken. He is wrong. No woman will ever owe him sex for any reason. That is not a thing.

How many young men get taught that the world doesn’t owe him a wife or a girlfriend and that just because he likes a girl doesn’t mean she’ll like him back? That friend-zoning is not a thing you’re entitled to get angry about, that it’s just the consequence of not being chosen? And that she gets to choose?

How many young men are taught that if she or both of you have been drinking, then consent cannot be rendered? That anything but a ‘fuck yeah’ is probably a no? That Barney Stinson and Joey Tribbiani were sexual predators? That tricking women into having sex with you is the same as fraud? That negging a woman into fucking you causes her long-term psychological damage? That sending unsolicited dick pics is not any less frightening and intrusive than flashing someone in public?

Do they get told that a wife isn’t a free prostitute? That masturbation is healthy? That it’s okay if they never get sex and die a virgin? That porn is just a man’s caricature of female sexuality and the real thing is way different and way hotter? And that you only ever get to see the real thing if you make her feel secure, relaxed and safe enough to play with you? And that’s not gonna happen when she’s drunk, or stressed, or drowning under a pile of diapers, dishes, body inhibitions, expectations or obligations?

(I hope this doesn't violate fair use?)

Such an important topic. I had about twenty years of this shit until I had kids in my 40s and never really lost the weight. Quite frankly, it's a relief. Young women also need to be educated on how to handle these types of situations.

Really truly . . . I am happy to be old and fat.

@Centaurea
From the crass, creepy old man comments like men are just pigs and all women are whores [implied: quit your whining and learn to live with that fact],

to what do you expect when they won't allow porn or long showers in the military [implied: we're entitled to abuse any hole we find to get off],

to back when I was a manager we knew we'd get canned if we boned our subordinates on the desk, but boo hoo feminism [implied: women are all whores, especially when men are their employed superiors]

to with all that's wrong with the world, why are you whining about your boobs being grabbed? [Implied: stfu you whiny ass bitches, what I think is more important than you, your body, or your autonomy and right to your own free will]

Feel free to add more, anyone, male or female.

Here's a description of Jeff Kruse's alleged behavior toward State Senator Sara Gelser, as reported by the Oregonian newspaper:

State Senator Calls for Expulsion of Colleague, Says 15 Women Harassed

In her formal complaint, Gelser said Kruse's inappropriate touching began in 2011, when she was a member of the Oregon House. Kruse touched her while she was sitting at her House desk, she said.

"He leaned forward from behind my back, and ran both of his hands and arms down my shoulders and across my breasts," Gelser wrote. "He then crossed his arms over the front of my body and squeezed me in a hug with his hands on my hips. He then rested his head first on my head and then my shoulder."

Gelser wrote that she was "stunned and frozen" by the harassment.

She tried to avoid him, but Kruse continued to touch her after she was elected in 2014 to the Senate, she said. She said Kruse, who joined the Senate in 2005, would sit so close to her that his tongue was in her ear when whispering to her. He once put his hand on her shoulder in a way that allowed his palm to rest on her breast, she said.

In two separate incidents on the Senate floor, Senate Majority Leader Ginny Burdick and former Sen. Chris Edwards saw Kruse touching Gelser inappropriately, she wrote, and were so alarmed they immediately intervened. Burdick and Edwards did not return requests for comment.

This year, while on the Senate floor, Kruse approached her and hung his arm over her shoulder, far enough that his hand reached down and touched her breast, she said. When confronted by Burdick, Kruse responded that Gelser didn't mind the touching, she wrote.

[...] She said she didn't know how to make Kruse stop and that at least 15 other women have come forward with their own stories of improper touching by the senator.

[...]Gelser said that despite the public nature of the allegations against Kruse, he still has not corrected his behavior. Several lobbyists and lawmakers saw Kruse publicly urinate at a golf course during a Republican Caucus event several weeks ago, she said.

Dexter Johnson, head attorney at the Legislature, confirmed Gelser filed an informal complaint against Kruse in 2016. At that time, Johnson said, he and the top human resources official spoke with Kruse in, telling him his conduct made women at the Capitol uncomfortable and that he should "back off."

And yet he did not back off. He refuses to accept responsibility, insisting that this is just politically motivated. From all appearances, he sees nothing inappropriate in his behavior.

As so many women come forward with similar experiences, we're seeing them dismissed: "That was 20 years ago! Why didn't she say something then? Too late now. She should just be quiet and go away and stop causing trouble. It's not fair to those poor men."

Look at what happened during the past five years when Senator Gelser attempted to get help from fellow senators and senate leaders. Not much happened. He was allowed to continue.

Does anyone think things were any different 20 years ago, or 30, or 40? If anything, it was worse.

Even now in 2017, with increased public awareness about boundaries and harassment, and with a lot of public support behind her, here's what Senator Gelser has had to deal with since coming forward:

I have watched online and in the media as my integrity, my body, my clothing, my sexuality, my personality and even the sensory characteristics of my intimate body parts have been discussed and debated," Gelser said. "All of this happened simply because I clearly stated that I should be able to go to work and not be touched without my consent."

@Centaurea
haven't lived through experiences like that. I am right now in Germany and see that those 'metoo" cases and issues are reported about even here, but not in the same way as it is in the US, and not in the regular evening news.

It's possible that there are differences in male behavior in different cultures, meaning that the self-assuredness with which males in US working environments can engage in inappropriate behavior and get away with it, might be different in "style" in different countries. There is a difference in how the media report on it. I am sure no women. who goes through groping and unwanted advances can forget these incidences and can only remember them as disgusting, so the anger against those perpetrators lingers around in their minds for good.

I think a great deal has to do how the media is covering it. Or that they cover it at all. A regular woman's groping experiences would never be picked up in the news, unless it resulted in rape and murder or it is an abuse of a child (pre-puberty). A celebrity woman or female politician who has a public role, who gets groped in similar ways, can use the experience in the media environment of today and get her story out.

That's not because her experience was worse than that one of a regular women, but because she can use them for other purposes. It's the media, who has to fill 24 hours of 'news' and enables them and who are responsible that those groping stories get into the public and can result in smearing or destroying careers of those who did the groping. If so many women complain about the same politician to have misbehaved, it might be a good thing to cause a 'career change' in those elected officials, If it's a superior at work or a colleague, it's a matter of courage to complain loudly and risk your own job for it. Who can know if the woman could afford to risk her job for it or not. Or if there is any violence involved and the women is not being able to prove there was violence involved.

Well, at least I can say that tearful comments about incidences against public figures in TV by women ten to twenty years later, have some kind of aftertaste that I find irritating.

That's all.

Here's a description of Jeff Kruse's alleged behavior toward State Senator Sara Gelser, as reported by the Oregonian newspaper:

State Senator Calls for Expulsion of Colleague, Says 15 Women Harassed

In her formal complaint, Gelser said Kruse's inappropriate touching began in 2011, when she was a member of the Oregon House. Kruse touched her while she was sitting at her House desk, she said.

"He leaned forward from behind my back, and ran both of his hands and arms down my shoulders and across my breasts," Gelser wrote. "He then crossed his arms over the front of my body and squeezed me in a hug with his hands on my hips. He then rested his head first on my head and then my shoulder."

Gelser wrote that she was "stunned and frozen" by the harassment.

She tried to avoid him, but Kruse continued to touch her after she was elected in 2014 to the Senate, she said. She said Kruse, who joined the Senate in 2005, would sit so close to her that his tongue was in her ear when whispering to her. He once put his hand on her shoulder in a way that allowed his palm to rest on her breast, she said.

In two separate incidents on the Senate floor, Senate Majority Leader Ginny Burdick and former Sen. Chris Edwards saw Kruse touching Gelser inappropriately, she wrote, and were so alarmed they immediately intervened. Burdick and Edwards did not return requests for comment.

This year, while on the Senate floor, Kruse approached her and hung his arm over her shoulder, far enough that his hand reached down and touched her breast, she said. When confronted by Burdick, Kruse responded that Gelser didn't mind the touching, she wrote.

[...] She said she didn't know how to make Kruse stop and that at least 15 other women have come forward with their own stories of improper touching by the senator.

[...]Gelser said that despite the public nature of the allegations against Kruse, he still has not corrected his behavior. Several lobbyists and lawmakers saw Kruse publicly urinate at a golf course during a Republican Caucus event several weeks ago, she said.

Dexter Johnson, head attorney at the Legislature, confirmed Gelser filed an informal complaint against Kruse in 2016. At that time, Johnson said, he and the top human resources official spoke with Kruse in, telling him his conduct made women at the Capitol uncomfortable and that he should "back off."

And yet he did not back off. He refuses to accept responsibility, insisting that this is just politically motivated. From all appearances, he sees nothing inappropriate in his behavior.

As so many women come forward with similar experiences, we're seeing them dismissed: "That was 20 years ago! Why didn't she say something then? Too late now. She should just be quiet and go away and stop causing trouble. It's not fair to those poor men."

Look at what happened during the past five years when Senator Gelser attempted to get help from fellow senators and senate leaders. Not much happened. He was allowed to continue.

Does anyone think things were any different 20 years ago, or 30, or 40? If anything, it was worse.

Even now in 2017, with increased public awareness about boundaries and harassment, and with a lot of public support behind her, here's what Senator Gelser has had to deal with since coming forward:

I have watched online and in the media as my integrity, my body, my clothing, my sexuality, my personality and even the sensory characteristics of my intimate body parts have been discussed and debated," Gelser said. "All of this happened simply because I clearly stated that I should be able to go to work and not be touched without my consent."

@snoopydawg
Yesterday, I was asked, on another site, after admitting that I had been in an online argument with a supposed man, who claimed that he regularly hugged and cheek kissed his female employees, defending creepy Biden, if I also condemned the Republicans who do it.

Seriously?

An abuser is an abuser is an abuser. I don't give a shit if you vote at all. If you force yourself on anyone, you're a piece of shit. Period!

The Dems have drunk wayyyy too much Russia is the Reason flavored koolaid. Moronic!

people on the right are defending Moore while they are tearing down Franklin, and many people on the left are blaming Russia. Seriously. Russia didn't stop after the election was over, they are going to continue to sow discord because they hate our democracy. Or something. The picture was taken 12 years ago, but people are buying into this idea that Russia has been just waiting for Trump to decide to run for president so they can help put him in office....
Give me a break!
Apparently the proof for this is that some people on the right knew that he was going to be charged with this today. I have seen the tweets from two people who wrote them yesterday. I'm not sure what to make of this. But the fact remains that Franklin has made a statement regarding that picture, so even if someone put her up to coming forward, it still happened. I still don't understand how they can blame it on Russia.

Here are two tweets from a website that is tracking Russian bots to document that Russia is still interfering with our country. How are they deciding that the sexual allegations are coming from Russia? Don't know, but it is. Somehow.

I've seen one woman saying that she doesn't believe the woman who is accusing Franklin because she is a Trump supporter and a friend of Fox News. This totally overlooks that there is a picture of Franklin touching the woman's breasts and if you look closely at his left hand he is touching her. Then there is his apology for doing the touching and having his picture taken doing it.
But people are saying that he's not actually touching her.

Are there democrats that have sexually assaulted women. Yes. But for people to say that Russia is the one pushing this is insulting to the women who have come finally forward and told their stories.

Please correct this statement. Franklin groped her on the plane, but he kissed her at a different time and when they were practicing their skit for the troops.

"This on the heels of Senator Al Franken being accused of groping and kissing a woman while she was asleep on an aircraft, and even snapping a photo of the abuse."

@mimi You make great deal of sense. But, where does it end, if ever? Tweeden called out Franken and did what you said, essentially, She told him not to touch her again, that she was disgusted by his actions and that, (except for the picture) seemed to end it at the time and she did the USO tour. She didn't like him, ever. Obviously she is still pissed, but she seems like a pretty strong person overall.

Is it enough to call out the offender and embarrass them on the spot? Should there be more? How much more? We are at a point where this conduct is getting dragged into the light and it needs to be fixed. How? Legally, with criminal trials? what penalties? With Franken, would being charged with simple assault be enough? Is anything enough?

I feel that the shaming could work. It worked when we were kids, and this should begin with kids, Rule 1, you don't do that again, ever, and hopefully that's the end of it. It can happen on the spot, and it can bring immediate results, but it needs the strength of community to back it up and we don't seem to have much of that lately.

As they fall, one by one, like dominos, they will leave a government devoid of male dominance in 2018 and beyond.
And in their place, hopefully, legislatures of women who will govern in a loving, caring, motherly affection for our country , our people, and our planet. For men seem to only want to eff Mother Earth.

Sorry, if I understand your sentences correctly (I am not sure I do), I feel they dumb me down as a woman. Have you never heard about women guards in Nazi concentration camps as sadistic and cruel as their male counterparts? Never heard about female corrupt, power seeking women who couldn't care less whom they "sacrificed" on their way up to power?

You gotta be kidding me. When it came to stories of women coming up with complains of having been touched or groped (I am not speaking of actual violent rape) after ten years or more on TV or otherwise in the social media to get attention, I got a bit irritated and started to talk about it with my sister. She told me how her daughter reacted when she was "inappropriately touched" by a male as a teenager (by a clergy man to make it even more awful). Immediately, in the open, and loudly dismissing that "asshole" in front of other people. It helped quite a bit.

I had witnessed an African woman I walked the streets togather, having been touched and groped at her buttocks. She slapped this guys hands immediately and furiously told him to back off. When he did, she just made a gesture to me, smiling, but meaning she was sorry to be that "noisy and clear' in her reaction. I thought her reaction was "good" and "apporpriate".

So, I would say, it's awful be be in a situation of being groped or touched by strangers, but there is a way to immediately react and get those assholes hands off your body. If the guys doesn't back off and starts beating and raping you violently, then it's a case for a police report - immediately. Not ten or twenty years later. If he intentionally and secretly drugged a woman to the point she hasn't control over her body anymore (like slipping a drug into a drink or some such), that guy needs to go to prison. Period.

Phew, I had to get that out of my chest. I can't stand hypocrits (male or female).

PS: I have now read the comments on this thread. All I can say I really don't understand why women are afraid of cursing their colleagues at work, when they misbehave like that. Would Sara Geiser have lost her position as legislator, if she had yelled at this Kruse bastard to get his hands of her body, in the open and loud? You tell me. I seem to be a bit off the chart in my way of thinking here.

@mimi
"All I can say I really don't understand why women are afraid of cursing their colleagues at work, when they misbehave like that. Would Sara Geiser have lost her position as legislator, if she had yelled at this Kruse bastard to get his hands of her body, in the open and loud?"

The article above states that two people had to intervene during one such episode. Really? Sara was so completely disabled that she couldn't get the guy to stop? She just sits there while he runs his hands over her?

I've been subject to numerous attempts, and all it took was a withering look to get my message across - some even apologizing afterword.

As they fall, one by one, like dominos, they will leave a government devoid of male dominance in 2018 and beyond.
And in their place, hopefully, legislatures of women who will govern in a loving, caring, motherly affection for our country , our people, and our planet. For men seem to only want to eff Mother Earth.

Sorry, if I understand your sentences correctly (I am not sure I do), I feel they dumb me down as a woman. Have you never heard about women guards in Nazi concentration camps as sadistic and cruel as their male counterparts? Never heard about female corrupt, power seeking women who couldn't care less whom they "sacrificed" on their way up to power?

You gotta be kidding me. When it came to stories of women coming up with complains of having been touched or groped (I am not speaking of actual violent rape) after ten years or more on TV or otherwise in the social media to get attention, I got a bit irritated and started to talk about it with my sister. She told me how her daughter reacted when she was "inappropriately touched" by a male as a teenager (by a clergy man to make it even more awful). Immediately, in the open, and loudly dismissing that "asshole" in front of other people. It helped quite a bit.

I had witnessed an African woman I walked the streets togather, having been touched and groped at her buttocks. She slapped this guys hands immediately and furiously told him to back off. When he did, she just made a gesture to me, smiling, but meaning she was sorry to be that "noisy and clear' in her reaction. I thought her reaction was "good" and "apporpriate".

So, I would say, it's awful be be in a situation of being groped or touched by strangers, but there is a way to immediately react and get those assholes hands off your body. If the guys doesn't back off and starts beating and raping you violently, then it's a case for a police report - immediately. Not ten or twenty years later. If he intentionally and secretly drugged a woman to the point she hasn't control over her body anymore (like slipping a drug into a drink or some such), that guy needs to go to prison. Period.

Phew, I had to get that out of my chest. I can't stand hypocrits (male or female).

PS: I have now read the comments on this thread. All I can say I really don't understand why women are afraid of cursing their colleagues at work, when they misbehave like that. Would Sara Geiser have lost her position as legislator, if she had yelled at this Kruse bastard to get his hands of her body, in the open and loud? You tell me. I seem to be a bit off the chart in my way of thinking here.