OMG, Scheiß German Election Results !!!
So first results for the German elections:
German elections exit polls: Merkel set to form new coalition.
If I understand it right, the SPD could form a coalition with "die Linke", "Die Gruenen" und den "Liberalen" FDP and have a majority.
edited:
I misunderstood this. Merkel just said that against the CDU no government can be built through coalition building of the SPD with other third parties. My bad.
But of course the 'liberals' of Germany (FDP) will never go into a coalition with the SPD, right?
If I don't understand it right, tell me.
edited:
Merkel just told me. Heh. Me, a German dummy expat.
Whatever the coalition szenario will be, because the AFD is now in the Parliament, they will have the power to introduce heated right-wing racist discussions on an official platform and no matter how few seats they have, they change the political landscape of the last sixty years in Germany. And this is a MAJOR set-back and imo the beginning of the end of peaceful Germany.
I bet you, right-wingers in the US will jubilate. They got their wish and have now the "new bad guy", the German "new Nazis" to fight against. Just the thing they need to keep their thumb on Germany.
I think it's a disaster we didn't need to have.
I hope that I will understand what is going on better within the next few hours and days. May be I do not understand the possibla coaltion options and am wrong.
Comments
Interesting right now is that German workers
have not anymore voted for either the Christian Democrats (CDU - Merkel's Party) or the Social Democrats. Their votes is down to 20 percent for both parties from around 40 percent for both in the end of the nineties. So, seen as a class issue, the workers felt their interests were not represented by both major parties, especially not from the Social Democrats. Now it would be good to know hoa many of those workers fled and put their votes into the laft-leaning parties and the Greens and how many of those put their vote into the right-wing AFD. How long will it take for workers to understand that the AFD is NOT an alternative solution for social and democratic political issues.
Sigh. I need to wait for my American friends to analyze all of it.
https://www.euronews.com/live
analyze
Seems to me that you're doing a fine job of it, mimi.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
not at all, I just like to post my first emotional
reactions (with all their mistakes as well), because I like to be able to see years from now in how much I was wrong.
https://www.euronews.com/live
First protests against AFD at their elections party
in Berlin. I guess the climate change is heating up the atmosphere in Germany... fast.
among the AFD voters the three issues that made them vote for AFD was "lack of forceful fights against terrorism", lack of "forceful fights against crime" and "a lack of fights against liberal immigrations policies". That shows that the "social and economic class related issues for workers" was NOT the most important reason for people to vote for the AFD.
https://www.euronews.com/live
AFD very similar to Trumpistas
Of course, not all Trumpeteers are so RW as that. Establishment Dems are very much in favor of a strong fight against terrorism (such as labor unions, whistleblowers, truth tellers, independent journalists). So, one out of three endorsements similar to AFD puts the blue Demonic Rodents closer to AFD except to red Demonic Rodents.
Glossary of approved terminology
The 'funny' thing is that
Merkel herself (despite being member of the CDU/CSU) is so close to formerly Social Democratic political issues, that Schultz from the SPD has lots of difficulties now to become "a strong opposition". For many ears he sounds unconvincing. I don't think he can remain leader of the SPD.
https://www.euronews.com/live
"Die Linke", the left party, says they don't want
that the AFD (the right-wing new party to the right of the CDU) is dominating and steering all of the political discussions in the Parliament and in the media. It's already clear that they can't fight that. They are already completely successfully triggering and steering political discourse in TV discussions, at least.
Tired.
https://www.euronews.com/live
If the CDU were smart,
Are any modern politicians smart anymore, anywhere?
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
The bone issues are social equality for workers
in Germany, and they are not easy to accomplish.
I just made a comment in lookout's weekly watch, as he was so kind to point me to a good video interview on the Real News Network with George Monbiot. Worth watching and then read my comment to it, and it shows you that it's not a little thingy about throwing bones.
TRN video interview with George Monbiot.
Germany's Angela Merkel: The World's Eco-Villain?
My comment to it:
It's all about saving jobs for the already disadvantaged work environment in industrial and former East German regions
Well, if the bones come in form of jobs that give people some security and feelings of being equally recognized in their needs of a dignified social life, I take the bones. So, in that sense Merkel threw some bones ...
But realize that the AFD also gained a lot of votes in Bavaria, and that state is "rich".
https://www.euronews.com/live
oh my, we have 76 year old calcified right-wing
ideologists the same way you can find them here in the US... Mr. Gauland live in TV in a political talk show panel in first direct discussions with members of the other parties... the only difference is that the Americans have their emotions more under control verbally than the Germans. Americans are masters of polite, smooth bullshit talkers, whereas the Germans are not.
As you can see in my posts, too.
Boy is that all getting on my nerves. I want to be an "Aussteiger" these days.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thank you
for keeping us up to date. I appreciate your hard work!
Was foreign policy especially toward Russia an issue?
I did not see anything about this in American media so maybe not so important as American media would have gone in hyperbolic mode if this was a debated issue in German.
hmm, hard for me to answer ... ...
but I think there were undercurrents through media outside of Germany to make it an issue inside of the German media landscape. You would have to ask lotlizard, she was in Germany the whole time, I assume, and would know better.
Googling it I find mostly US think tanks and media talking about it.
The impact of Russian interference on Germany’s 2017 elections
I think it was an issue, one that nobody wanted to really be discussed in public. The Social Democrats with Sigmar Gabriel still want the traditional policies of the Willy Brandt and Egon BAhr era, ie. get along with Russia through Change by Rapprochemnent.
They are divided in their approach with regards to sanctions against Russia and Syria triggered by the Ukraine Crim conflict and Assad's usage of chemical weapons over 20 times and because of the photos by military photographers "Caesar" which were shown in the UN headquarter in 2015 and showed tortured prisoners of the Assad regime. Well, how much trust do you have in the UN?
With regards to Russia influencing German elections the Germans seem not to buy into propaganda of that sort, but know "spying and propaganda influence by Russians" is always there and never goes away. Therefore the US media said that the German campaign was "boring", because they didn't make it a big media issue. But in fact it is an issue, just kept somewhat low key and under the lid to not allow the media to abuse the issue.
Really, you ask the wrong person. Here is the take by Deutsche Welle:
How to influence voters and tamper with the German election I mean it's all games on your mind. We have a lot of Russian-Germans. Apparently they are not that much liked anymore, because they seem to vote for the extreme right in Germany.
Battleground Berlin: Will Russian-Germans vote for the far right? - For some in the community, its reputation for xenophobia is a call to action.
If you read the article, you understand that it's a complex and difficult issue to judge. I can't.
I hope Joe will find relevant opinion pieces on that in Monday's EB. Sorry for that messy answer.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Very little of substance came up during the campaign.
Mrs. Merkel’s strategy was to avoid open conflict or polarization. The SPD had social justice (Gerechtigkeit) as their campaign theme but, being part of the governing grand coalition, had little credibility suddenly coming out with criticisms.
Analysts across the spectrum pretty much agree that the AfD — while “having all the wrong answers,” as every mainstream pundit hastens to add — was raising important questions which other parties were dodging. Questions such as, “But practically speaking, isn’t there a limit to how many immigrants from a completely different culture Germany can absorb?” and “If all along there was a quite predictable demographic shortfall when it comes to financing future retirees’ pensions, why hasn’t it been economic policy all these decades to incentivize Germans to have more German children, rather than now suddenly telling us that mass immigration from the Middle East and Asia Minor are necessary to make up the deficit?”
Keep us updated
Appreciate your post and hope you keep us readers updated as to the impact of the AfD party.
that will take weeks to figure out ... /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
In Saxony the right-wing AFD has the majority and more
votes than the conservative right of center Christian Democrats (Merkel's party).
Phew...
Not only Bermie Sanders would wipe of the sweat this news triggers.
May be even Obama would do it, if he had a clue...
Shudder... peace, a thing we might cry out for in the future.
https://www.euronews.com/live
yep, I can hear her ...
My (may be inadequate) Translation:
Here we go again.
heh, mimi's first sign of post traumatic stress syndrome after reading the German election results...
https://www.euronews.com/live
First official election results
For those who have no clue what the German parties stand for, here I little vulgar visual explanation for dummies.
oh well, better don't read twitter. The manipulation is too intense there.
https://www.euronews.com/live
hmm, that's kind of interesting....
DW exclusive: How German companies donate secret money to political parties
Looky at this:
Should read that article. Money talks. Especially dirty money, always stinks like something 'brownish'.
Wow I had no idea:
That is shocking.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Shame on us and our donation laws to political parties
I can't believe it. It's upsetting me a lot.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Now I need to sleep over that shock
Good Night.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thiese EU questions are important , but were not talked about
Sie hat den Wahlsieg erschwiegen (She - ie Merkel - won the elections by being silent)
I edited the google translation. All mistakes are mine. Emphasis also mine.
There is something cooking and might boil over.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Helmut Kohl set a really bad example there
as did the authorities who declined to enforce the law — even after Kohl refused to disclose the identity of the donors, on the thin excuse that he had given them his “word of honor” that he would keep everything secret.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=helmut+kohl+ehrenwort+spenden+illegale&t=ffsb&...
Hi mimi
It's too bad that such an ideal coalition could not be formed. It’s a bit like the scenario of New Zealand’s election the day before, but we do have the possibility of a more favourable coalition, even though only 2/3 as ideal as the first 3 you mention.
I’m looking forward to hearing my former husband’s opinion on the state of German politics, after he returns from a visit to Germany. I imagine he’ll be expressing much of the same as you have here. My condolences about the strength of the AFD.
It’s one thing to read about it, but another to experience it on a local level. Thank you for the information.
Hi, Janis, I admit these days
I start day-dreaming of leaving both my home countries and just hide out ... may be in New Zealand?
Yesterday I wanted to leave, like Big Al. Today I distracted myself in ways how little women do sometimes and started cooking and baking. I haven't had the nerves yet to make one single photo here in Hawaii. We have great clouds hanging on the hills, some day I have to take pictures of them.
Great to see you here again. Have a good evening.
https://www.euronews.com/live
You don't need nerves to photograph clouds,
only a camera ; ). I sure would love to see some Hawaiian clouds, full of their special light.
You've always had an open invitation to hide out here. You're almost halfway here already.
I think cooking is one of the best forms of distraction, entertainment and enjoyment.
thx /nt.... :-)
https://www.euronews.com/live
If you want to understand the German coaltion building process
after yesterday's election results, which brought the Alternative for Germany (extreme right) into the parliament, you might want to listen in to this interview with Shir Hever.
I told you so, I need my American friends to come up with a clear analysis of what happened and why. The Real News Network, one of my favorite, rarely disappoints.
Far-Right Enters Germany's Parliament for First Time in 60 Years.
I needed that much of detail and think, if you are interested enough to listen, Shir Hever explains a lot, among others, why four years ago, the left parties didn't build a coaltion as an opposition to Merkel's party, the CDU:
I always thought that Merkel is closer to the SPD than to her own party CDU. The first time I hear that now almost confirmed. And Max Blumenthal's and DAvid Sheens getting up close to the Gregor Gysi (himself Jewish) in the toilet gate affair inside the German Parliament is now a bit more understandable to me.
Sigh.
https://www.euronews.com/live
to entertain myself, here is another German election result
analysis from the "Moon of Alabama". Apparently the host is a German? Who would have thought. Well, the analysis sounds German, if you know what I mean...
Sometimes I like French better, more often I escape into English. My next project is to learn Russian and Mandarin. I know ...
A German Election Analysis - (As your host is German you may want to read his opinion and analysis of today's federal election results in Germany).
Well ...
I would say that the NSDAP might not have been seen as a "Nazi" party as well, back in the days and early members might have been also traditionalists, conservatives, patriotic minded folks etc..
But who really cares, everyone is a Nazi these days, so I would think it's time to bury the term "Nazi", because it has no meaning anymore, if it gets used for any nilly willy political view point or person.
I just post this for the archives, err for my missing archives, stealing space on JtC's server for 'temporary storage' purposes. I know I won't look for those articles again from where they originally came from. Thanks JtC for letting me engage in an 'old lady
virginia(oops, the correct word didn't come out - but I assure you I still have a vagina ) monologue', which this seems to be.https://www.euronews.com/live
And if you want to understand a bit more about Merkel
this BBC article does a good job "explaining" her, like mentioning that when the Berlin WAll came down, Angela Merkel went to her routine Sauna visit. She concluded as the borders were now open, they wer not going to close again...and took her time.
Nah, it's a long read, but worth it for those who want to get a sense of how she ticks.
Angela Merkel's quiet power
https://www.euronews.com/live
The AfD started out as an anti-EU, anti-common-currency party.
Of all the parties with a realistic chance of entering the Bundestag, the AfD was the only choice if a voter wanted to express a thumbs-down on the E.U. in its present form.
The current E.U. certainly comes across to many as a Brussels-based bureaucratic bubble of globalists and lobbyists, doing whatever they want unconstrained by a powerless Potemkin parliament, who live a luxurious life far removed from the lives of ordinary people and are insensitive to the latter’s needs and concerns.
Oh thanks, I was hoping you show up and give your input,
as I didn't live in Germany the last 35 years, the whole pro-EU, anti-EU arguments which I picked up along the way, were difficult for me to judge or even understand despite the best efforts of Joe Shikspack's collection of articles that covered those issues.
That seems to be the case in the US as well and the question arises, as of when can you count yourself as "ordinary people"? Even here on the c99p there are many, who seem to have a somewhat secure life, with no worries to lose their homes and enough retirement money to not fall into poverty once they are old. I guess the only issue they have to fear is their lacking health care coverage. (Imo the only reason why Sanders sticks to his guns on health care and is relatively silent - as Merkel is - on foreign policy issues. They know those foreign policy issues are political suicide). In any case, those folks are ordinary, but with less worries and needs than the "real ordinary" people.
There are millions of ordinary Americans, who fear every day that they lose their small underpaid jobs, gigs, temporary part-time positions, lose their shelter, have not enough money to buy food and fear not to get health care, and not enough money to go to college. That is not the case in Germany.
So, I ask myself, how bad of a life do the 'ordinary people' in Germany have to have, so that they feel compelled to vote for a party that can easily be abused - at least rhetorically - for racist ideological issues?
As far as I know, an 'ordinary German' has not to fear to go bankrupt, because he gets sick, he has not to fear to lose a rental contract, just because the landlord feels it's time for his tenant to go, a tenant has tremendous protection in Germany and after a certain number of years, a landlord can't get rid of their tenants anymore.
The only 'hardship' I see, ordinary people in Germany have, is losing their jobs or having none to begin with, which is obviously a greater issue in former East German regions. Still, compared to the US, they are better protected against hire and fire at will conditions you could find in the US. And as I mentioned in other posts, the AFD voter's motivation was not only class related, but "law and order" related. Am I wrong to believe that the 'ordinary German' still lives quite securely with his "Euro" and doesn't really need "a Deutsche Mark" back in his portemonnaie?
See, I have no "guts feelings" for the "EU issues". I would have to live in Greece or Portugal or Spain to understand the hardship of its 'ordinary people', which are caused by EU austerity measures. I have difficulties to distinguish from factual and honestly truthful articles to those who seem to be more partisan and propaganda orientated.
I remember a bit some videos of Yanis Varoufakis and the Syriza government. Most of the economic issues were beyond my paygrade. I am an ordinary woman and no academic (ok, not true, but not in a history, economy or political science field and am no professional and no writer, just ordinary... you know). Therefore I am a little insecure and keep a distance to issues around the EU's economically "imperial" tendencies. But I must admit that the article I posted helped me understand more than I had before.
May be ordinary people are those who are not academics, but workers on bottom line. Like a Walmart worker, or a landscape / maintenance guy. People, who wouldn't necessarily read sophisticated academically worded articles about austerity measures of the EU and who imposes them. Those ordinary people I know, are way too tired to read much after a day of work.(at least here in the US)
I talked to my 'ordinary' and 'elderly' sister in Germany today. She has not a clue and just said the AFD is a crazy little group, nobody takes seriously here, and I just thought OMG how can she be so ignorant. But you know it's my sister, she is over 74 and slowly fading. Like so many ordianry people. Still she is tremendously safe and she will never lose her shelter, nor her health care, on top of that she never earned her own living and therefore has no clue, how it feels to have not such securities.
I need to come home to Germany at other locations than my parents house, I grew up in, and smell the coffee on the streets...Through the intertubes I smell something else. May be I am manipulated and live in a bubble?
Thanks for coming here. Please come again. I learn from your comments and links and would miss them a lot.
https://www.euronews.com/live
“Bomber Harris, do it again” is a thing with some among the Left
and also among some people who — like the founders of the political weekly Jungle World — support Israel and U.S. neocon foreign policy, and have split from the rest of the German Left for that reason.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/28/germany.lukeharding
Meming celebration of Harris, architect of the Royal Air Force’s destruction of the city — oh, now that’ll win friends and influence people in Dresden, eh? </sarcasm>
Also, Dresdeners have good reason to be suspicious of the sudden recent efforts by “historians” and “researchers” (gatekeepers for whom?) to lowball the number who died in the firebombing of Dresden at “only” 25,000. When, in contrast, for sixty years after World War II there was a consensus that, since the city was full of uncounted families fleeing from the East, no one would ever know for sure, but that estimates like 100,000 or 150,000 were not out of line.
Wow, never heard about those "Anti-German" Germans
What is that? Shizophrenia? A Mental Health Problem? Sigh. The article is from 2006. Are they still there? The "Anti-German" Germans? Or did they change colors? Like a chameleon?
https://www.euronews.com/live
uh, oh, I might misunderstand the Anti-Germans
I just started to read “The Anti-Germans” – The Pro-Israel German Left article and am profoundly confused. That needs to be read twice, swallowed and digested.
Thanks, lotlizard. We shall meet again on this subject...
https://www.euronews.com/live
TAZ discussion piece: The Belated Revenge of the Easties
https://www.taz.de/Debatte-Wahlverhalten-in-Ost-und-West/!5447829/
Wow, excellent article, You understand
that I never got or understood the Ossie - Wessie split living in the US and not reading much of the German newspapers in the nineties and beyond. I had to read the US based news, not German news. This is one issue that never crossed over the Atlantik from Germany into my conscience clearly and deep enough.
I remember how disappointed I was learning about the divide and the hurt feelings of the Ossies. Til today I have never been to Dresden. I know East Germany just as a student in the seventies crossing through from Hamburg to West Berlin, where I went to University. I have a deep, dark hole in my understanding of Germany after reunification. Unfortunately.
Thanks for the article. I just wondered how one could translate it, but I think it's too much of a "homegrown" issue and language to give it a try for the readership here.
I do fully understand the article and I feel empathy.
https://www.euronews.com/live
“A lot of people feel left behind”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/25/a-lot-of-people-feel-left-...
90% of AfD “Nazis”: protecting Israel is Germany’s raison d’être
https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-right-afd-lov...