OMG, Scheiß German Election Results !!!

So first results for the German elections:
spd-wahlparty-103-_v-teaserM.jpg
German elections exit polls: Merkel set to form new coalition.

If I understand it right, the SPD could form a coalition with "die Linke", "Die Gruenen" und den "Liberalen" FDP and have a majority.

edited:
I misunderstood this. Merkel just said that against the CDU no government can be built through coalition building of the SPD with other third parties. My bad.

But of course the 'liberals' of Germany (FDP) will never go into a coalition with the SPD, right?

If I don't understand it right, tell me.

edited:
Merkel just told me. Heh. Me, a German dummy expat.

Whatever the coalition szenario will be, because the AFD is now in the Parliament, they will have the power to introduce heated right-wing racist discussions on an official platform and no matter how few seats they have, they change the political landscape of the last sixty years in Germany. And this is a MAJOR set-back and imo the beginning of the end of peaceful Germany.

I bet you, right-wingers in the US will jubilate. They got their wish and have now the "new bad guy", the German "new Nazis" to fight against. Just the thing they need to keep their thumb on Germany.

I think it's a disaster we didn't need to have.

I hope that I will understand what is going on better within the next few hours and days. May be I do not understand the possibla coaltion options and am wrong.

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mimi's picture

have not anymore voted for either the Christian Democrats (CDU - Merkel's Party) or the Social Democrats. Their votes is down to 20 percent for both parties from around 40 percent for both in the end of the nineties. So, seen as a class issue, the workers felt their interests were not represented by both major parties, especially not from the Social Democrats. Now it would be good to know hoa many of those workers fled and put their votes into the laft-leaning parties and the Greens and how many of those put their vote into the right-wing AFD. How long will it take for workers to understand that the AFD is NOT an alternative solution for social and democratic political issues.

Sigh. I need to wait for my American friends to analyze all of it.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

thanatokephaloides's picture

@mimi

Sigh. I need to wait for my American friends to analyze all of it.

Seems to me that you're doing a fine job of it, mimi..... Smile

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"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

mimi's picture

@thanatokephaloides
reactions (with all their mistakes as well), because I like to be able to see years from now in how much I was wrong.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

in Berlin. I guess the climate change is heating up the atmosphere in Germany... fast.
among the AFD voters the three issues that made them vote for AFD was "lack of forceful fights against terrorism", lack of "forceful fights against crime" and "a lack of fights against liberal immigrations policies". That shows that the "social and economic class related issues for workers" was NOT the most important reason for people to vote for the AFD.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi

vote for AFD was "lack of forceful fights against terrorism", lack of "forceful fights against crime" and "a lack of fights against liberal immigrations policies".

Of course, not all Trumpeteers are so RW as that. Establishment Dems are very much in favor of a strong fight against terrorism (such as labor unions, whistleblowers, truth tellers, independent journalists). So, one out of three endorsements similar to AFD puts the blue Demonic Rodents closer to AFD except to red Demonic Rodents.

Glossary of approved terminology

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mimi's picture

Merkel herself (despite being member of the CDU/CSU) is so close to formerly Social Democratic political issues, that Schultz from the SPD has lots of difficulties now to become "a strong opposition". For many ears he sounds unconvincing. I don't think he can remain leader of the SPD.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

that the AFD (the right-wing new party to the right of the CDU) is dominating and steering all of the political discussions in the Parliament and in the media. It's already clear that they can't fight that. They are already completely successfully triggering and steering political discourse in TV discussions, at least.

Tired.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

dervish's picture

@mimi they'd throw the base a bone issue or two, to stop the encroachment of the AfD.

Are any modern politicians smart anymore, anywhere?

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

mimi's picture

@dervish @dervish
in Germany, and they are not easy to accomplish.

I just made a comment in lookout's weekly watch, as he was so kind to point me to a good video interview on the Real News Network with George Monbiot. Worth watching and then read my comment to it, and it shows you that it's not a little thingy about throwing bones.

TRN video interview with George Monbiot.
Germany's Angela Merkel: The World's Eco-Villain?
My comment to it:
It's all about saving jobs for the already disadvantaged work environment in industrial and former East German regions

Well, if the bones come in form of jobs that give people some security and feelings of being equally recognized in their needs of a dignified social life, I take the bones. So, in that sense Merkel threw some bones ... Smile

But realize that the AFD also gained a lot of votes in Bavaria, and that state is "rich".

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

ideologists the same way you can find them here in the US... Mr. Gauland live in TV in a political talk show panel in first direct discussions with members of the other parties... the only difference is that the Americans have their emotions more under control verbally than the Germans. Americans are masters of polite, smooth bullshit talkers, whereas the Germans are not.

As you can see in my posts, too. Smile

Boy is that all getting on my nerves. I want to be an "Aussteiger" these days.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

for keeping us up to date. I appreciate your hard work!

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I did not see anything about this in American media so maybe not so important as American media would have gone in hyperbolic mode if this was a debated issue in German.

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mimi's picture

@MrWebster
but I think there were undercurrents through media outside of Germany to make it an issue inside of the German media landscape. You would have to ask lotlizard, she was in Germany the whole time, I assume, and would know better.

Googling it I find mostly US think tanks and media talking about it.
The impact of Russian interference on Germany’s 2017 elections

I think it was an issue, one that nobody wanted to really be discussed in public. The Social Democrats with Sigmar Gabriel still want the traditional policies of the Willy Brandt and Egon BAhr era, ie. get along with Russia through Change by Rapprochemnent.

They are divided in their approach with regards to sanctions against Russia and Syria triggered by the Ukraine Crim conflict and Assad's usage of chemical weapons over 20 times and because of the photos by military photographers "Caesar" which were shown in the UN headquarter in 2015 and showed tortured prisoners of the Assad regime. Well, how much trust do you have in the UN?

With regards to Russia influencing German elections the Germans seem not to buy into propaganda of that sort, but know "spying and propaganda influence by Russians" is always there and never goes away. Therefore the US media said that the German campaign was "boring", because they didn't make it a big media issue. But in fact it is an issue, just kept somewhat low key and under the lid to not allow the media to abuse the issue.

Really, you ask the wrong person. Here is the take by Deutsche Welle:
How to influence voters and tamper with the German election I mean it's all games on your mind. We have a lot of Russian-Germans. Apparently they are not that much liked anymore, because they seem to vote for the extreme right in Germany.
Battleground Berlin: Will Russian-Germans vote for the far right? - For some in the community, its reputation for xenophobia is a call to action.

If you read the article, you understand that it's a complex and difficult issue to judge. I can't.
I hope Joe will find relevant opinion pieces on that in Monday's EB. Sorry for that messy answer.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

lotlizard's picture

@MrWebster  
Mrs. Merkel’s strategy was to avoid open conflict or polarization. The SPD had social justice (Gerechtigkeit) as their campaign theme but, being part of the governing grand coalition, had little credibility suddenly coming out with criticisms.

Analysts across the spectrum pretty much agree that the AfD — while “having all the wrong answers,” as every mainstream pundit hastens to add — was raising important questions which other parties were dodging. Questions such as, “But practically speaking, isn’t there a limit to how many immigrants from a completely different culture Germany can absorb?” and “If all along there was a quite predictable demographic shortfall when it comes to financing future retirees’ pensions, why hasn’t it been economic policy all these decades to incentivize Germans to have more German children, rather than now suddenly telling us that mass immigration from the Middle East and Asia Minor are necessary to make up the deficit?”

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karl pearson's picture

Appreciate your post and hope you keep us readers updated as to the impact of the AfD party.

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mimi's picture

@karl pearson

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

votes than the conservative right of center Christian Democrats (Merkel's party).
Phew...
Not only Bermie Sanders would wipe of the sweat this news triggers.
images - sweat.jpg
May be even Obama would do it, if he had a clue...
images Obama sweat.jpg
Shudder... peace, a thing we might cry out for in the future.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

DKgdgKEXoAY09Zc.jpg
My (may be inadequate) Translation:

"Here they come again, the evil ghosts who fire up the hate and scorn or disdain or contempt or disrespect". - Charlotte Knobloch, former president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany.

Here we go again.

Die ich rief, die Geister, // Werd' ich nun nicht los. [Johann W. v. Goethe, Der Zauberlehrling]
The ghosts I've called won't let me go

heh, mimi's first sign of post traumatic stress syndrome after reading the German election results...

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

DKi9t9ZX0AI5ZQi.jpg

For those who have no clue what the German parties stand for, here I little vulgar visual explanation for dummies.
DKgHYx8W0AAE1dq.jpg

oh well, better don't read twitter. The manipulation is too intense there.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

DW exclusive: How German companies donate secret money to political parties
Looky at this:
DKZfkTtXkAE3BrR.jpg
Should read that article. Money talks. Especially dirty money, always stinks like something 'brownish'.

Wow I had no idea:

German donation laws make it easy for major contributors to transfer a lot of money without much scrutiny. While parties must immediately report all donations of over 50,000 euros to Germany's lower house of parliament, or Bundestag, which publishes the information on its website, any individual contributions of between 10,000 and 50,000 euros are not disclosed until 18 months later, when each party's accounts are published. As for donations of less than 10,000 euros: Parties are under no obligation to disclose the donors at all.

Other countries have much lower disclosure thresholds. In the United States, the identity of any donor giving more than $200 directly to a party or candidate must be disclosed.

German companies are not slow to exploit the legal loopholes, by splitting donations and giving many times more money to political parties than is revealed to the public – at least at first. Since the last election year, 2013, all of Germany's major parties have received sums amounting to over 50,000 euros per year that have not come to light until much later – which means companies and wealthy individuals can easily hide any political influence.

That is shocking.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

@mimi
I can't believe it. It's upsetting me a lot.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

@mimi
Good Night.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

@mimi @mimi @mimi
Sie hat den Wahlsieg erschwiegen (She - ie Merkel - won the elections by being silent)

I edited the google translation. All mistakes are mine. Emphasis also mine.

The Chancellor has forgotten the European Union, not only on the election evening, but throughout the election campaign. Probably she had concealed the issues of the EU on purpose. Obviously it was not part of their electoral campaign strategy to argue about disputed topics. The issue with the EU is particularly embarrassing, as in the past days two things have happened, which will be of enormous importance for the Germans and all other Europeans.

First, Emmanuel Macron explained in Athens before the Acropolis the reestablishment of the EU. Start the Megareform: now. End: in ten years. Shortly thereafter, Jean-Claude Juncker, in his speech on the situation of the EU in the European Parliament, also let all EU citizens - including all Germans - know how their future should look .There will be much more and no less EU, according to the embassies from Athens and Strasbourg in short form. This means that Europe can not remain as it is. This also means that Germany can not remain as it is. Therefore important questions for the German population result:

Firstly, when a new European Economic and Finance Minister takes office, as announced by the EU Commission, is he then controlled by a new Euro-region parliament (Macroon's wish) or the existing EU Parliament (Juncker's plan)? And what will the Bundestag say to that?

Secondly, is the new European employment authority, which will be established, the beginning of a Social Union? How will the rich Germany help, to create a European minimum social assistance program for the poorer southern European countries?

Thirdly, if the new European Prosecutor's Office is to be able to investigate transnationally, how does it affect German authorities? How do German policemen work together with European prosecutors?

Fourthly, at the next European elections, citizens will be able to choose transnational parties. Will Merkel's CDU then compete in Germany as a European People's Party - in an alliance with Viktor Orbán's right-wing populist Fidesz?

And fifthly, the most fundamental question: Will the EU law, that means also the German law, fundamentally changed? How can all citizens co-determine a new EU constitution?

Anyone who expects answers to those questions in Germany, lives in the wrong country. How the future plans for the EU will look like, is not known, even after many weeks of the election campaign. The Chancellor would have needed to talk about this issue, one of the most important topics of our time currently. The voters have a right to have discussions about their future, which is co-determined by the EU. Democracy is a debate. Instead, the top candidates in the endless television shows behaved as if the EU were somewhere in a distant country. This ignorance is the problem.

The "I-sag-rather-nothing-to-EU" mistake has been made too often by pro-Europeans. For more than a decade the rejection against the European Union has been known in several EU countries. In 2005, the Dutch and the French voted against an EU constitution by referendum. Since then, many people in Germany as well have not understood why the EU continues to gain competences, even though it was voted out. In the German election campaign, no Volksspartei answered this question.

In the year 2013, this tactic enabled the formation of the AfD. As a reminder, the new rights were created as an anti-EU group. The then europaqueptic and now partly right-wing extremist party was able to convince many citizens, because the German society, under the leadership of Merkel, withdrew itself from a long overdue EU debate. What kind of an EU do we want? How many competencies must remain at EU level, how many at national level? Schengen, the ECJ, the internal free market and the euro: Why is that all wanted, actually?

Angela Merkel has good answers to all these questions, Martin Schulz also. But instead of discussing the best answers, she has not said nothing much, and that in the past few years and even in the election campaign even It is paradoxical: Merkel, who knows how much EU reform will dominate debates in the coming months and years, has avoided the issue.

The chancellor got part of her election victory by being silent. Martin Schulz, after all, former President of the European Parliament, has missed the opportunity to hold an important debate. And the Germans, who were allowed to vote, but did not know what the EU reform was, now have to live with the consequences. The question of how Germany should change within the new EU remains unanswered. The discourse about this is now not easier - with a right-wing populist anti-EU AfD and a left-wing populist EU-skeptical linkspartei, both of which are in the Bundestag.

After twelve years of EU policy, Angela Merkel can not be accused of not being a convinced European. But you can by now become angry and furious about it, because it seems she doesn' trust the Germans to be capable to argue about EU's future questions. The sociologist Albert O. Hirschman once described this in his exit voice loyalty theory. Whoever is no longer loyal to a system and feels that his voice will no longer be heard will want to leave the system. Many citizens already have a loyalty problem with their EU. If we do not start talking about it at length, it may be too late. You can also kill the EU issues to death by being silent about them.

There is something cooking and might boil over.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

lotlizard's picture

@mimi  
as did the authorities who declined to enforce the law — even after Kohl refused to disclose the identity of the donors, on the thin excuse that he had given them his “word of honor” that he would keep everything secret.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=helmut+kohl+ehrenwort+spenden+illegale&t=ffsb&...

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janis b's picture

It's too bad that such an ideal coalition could not be formed. It’s a bit like the scenario of New Zealand’s election the day before, but we do have the possibility of a more favourable coalition, even though only 2/3 as ideal as the first 3 you mention.

I’m looking forward to hearing my former husband’s opinion on the state of German politics, after he returns from a visit to Germany. I imagine he’ll be expressing much of the same as you have here. My condolences about the strength of the AFD.

It’s one thing to read about it, but another to experience it on a local level. Thank you for the information.

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mimi's picture

@janis b
I start day-dreaming of leaving both my home countries and just hide out ... may be in New Zealand?
Yesterday I wanted to leave, like Big Al. Today I distracted myself in ways how little women do sometimes and started cooking and baking. I haven't had the nerves yet to make one single photo here in Hawaii. We have great clouds hanging on the hills, some day I have to take pictures of them.

Great to see you here again. Have a good evening.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

janis b's picture

@mimi

only a camera ; ). I sure would love to see some Hawaiian clouds, full of their special light.

You've always had an open invitation to hide out here. You're almost halfway here already.

I think cooking is one of the best forms of distraction, entertainment and enjoyment.

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mimi's picture

@janis b

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

after yesterday's election results, which brought the Alternative for Germany (extreme right) into the parliament, you might want to listen in to this interview with Shir Hever.

I told you so, I need my American friends to come up with a clear analysis of what happened and why. The Real News Network, one of my favorite, rarely disappoints.

Far-Right Enters Germany's Parliament for First Time in 60 Years.

I needed that much of detail and think, if you are interested enough to listen, Shir Hever explains a lot, among others, why four years ago, the left parties didn't build a coaltion as an opposition to Merkel's party, the CDU:

GREGORY WILPERT: The results of the previous coalition, when there were only four parties, . created the possibility of a left coalition that would have included the left party, Die Linke, together with the Green Party and the Social Democratic PartyInstead the Christian Democratic party formed a coalition with the Social Democrats. Why do you think that the left coalition did not happen back then and do the left parties regret not forming a coalition four years ago? Is their decision related to the rise of the extreme right?
SHIR HEVER: I think four years ago, when that possibility became apparent as a result of the election, to have a coalition without the Christian Democrats, of the three more left parties, a lot of people in all of these three parties wanted that coalition to happen. If you look at the platform, if you look at the agenda, these three parties have a lot in common. The Left and the Social Democrats are also aggressive on climate issues like the Greens. Many of the members of the Green Party are also progressive on foreign policy, like the Left and the social issues between the Left and the Social Democrats are not that far away.

That's exactly the problem. That is exactly the reason why that coalition didn't happen. Because the left and the Social Democrats are afraid that the voters would not be able to tell them apart. The current head of the Left Party, Gregor Gysi, is taking his party as far to the right as he possibly can under the slogan of trying to make his party fit for government. He believes that if his party would resemble the Social Democrats enough, then he might get into the coalition.

In fact he's doing exactly the opposite because blurs the line between himself and the Social Democrats. He turns the Left Party into just a copy of the Social Democratic Party and that turns voters away because voters then go to the smaller parties which in the end don't actually manage to get the minimum. I think that's the reason that the coalition didn't happen then. Whether people regret it or not, that's a bit hard to say now, but I think this played into the hands of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

She completely understood that if she can outflank the Left and have her policy presented in the framework of a humane and ethical message that Germany will not turn away the refugees fleeing war and genocide in some cases and so on, then Germany would live up to its responsibility. Of course, not quoting on the front the fact that she had other reasons to engage with that policy, like economic interests. By flanking the Left parties, that really created the message that there is no alternative that all the parties are of one voice. That gives Angela Merkel a lot of power, but of course it means that people are looking for an alternative and that's why they vote for the Alternative for Germany. They're looking for a right wing alternative because they consider Angela Merkel to have gone over to the left. That would probably not have been possible if that coalition of the left parties would have been formed because then Angela Merkel would have been in the opposition and would have called support for right-wing policies.

I always thought that Merkel is closer to the SPD than to her own party CDU. The first time I hear that now almost confirmed. And Max Blumenthal's and DAvid Sheens getting up close to the Gregor Gysi (himself Jewish) in the toilet gate affair inside the German Parliament is now a bit more understandable to me.
Sigh.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

@mimi @mimi
analysis from the "Moon of Alabama". Apparently the host is a German? Who would have thought. Well, the analysis sounds German, if you know what I mean... Wink
Sometimes I like French better, more often I escape into English. My next project is to learn Russian and Mandarin. I know ...
Acute

A German Election Analysis - (As your host is German you may want to read his opinion and analysis of today's federal election results in Germany).

Well ...

The AFD is by no means a "Nazi" party though a few Nazis may hide under its mantle. The voters are mostly traditionalist, staunch conservatives and anti-globalization. They were earlier part of the CDU.

I would say that the NSDAP might not have been seen as a "Nazi" party as well, back in the days and early members might have been also traditionalists, conservatives, patriotic minded folks etc..

But who really cares, everyone is a Nazi these days, so I would think it's time to bury the term "Nazi", because it has no meaning anymore, if it gets used for any nilly willy political view point or person.

I just post this for the archives, err for my missing archives, stealing space on JtC's server for 'temporary storage' purposes. I know I won't look for those articles again from where they originally came from. Thanks JtC for letting me engage in an 'old lady virginia (oops, the correct word didn't come out - but I assure you I still have a vagina Wink ) monologue', which this seems to be.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

mimi's picture

this BBC article does a good job "explaining" her, like mentioning that when the Berlin WAll came down, Angela Merkel went to her routine Sauna visit. She concluded as the borders were now open, they wer not going to close again...and took her time. Smile
Nah, it's a long read, but worth it for those who want to get a sense of how she ticks.
Angela Merkel's quiet power

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

lotlizard's picture

Of all the parties with a realistic chance of entering the Bundestag, the AfD was the only choice if a voter wanted to express a thumbs-down on the E.U. in its present form.

The current E.U. certainly comes across to many as a Brussels-based bureaucratic bubble of globalists and lobbyists, doing whatever they want unconstrained by a powerless Potemkin parliament, who live a luxurious life far removed from the lives of ordinary people and are insensitive to the latter’s needs and concerns.

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mimi's picture

@lotlizard @lotlizard
as I didn't live in Germany the last 35 years, the whole pro-EU, anti-EU arguments which I picked up along the way, were difficult for me to judge or even understand despite the best efforts of Joe Shikspack's collection of articles that covered those issues.

.. Brussels-based bureaucratic bubble of globalists and lobbyists, doing whatever they want unconstrained by a powerless Potemkin parliament, who live a luxurious life far removed from the lives of ordinary people and are insensitive to the latter’s needs and concerns.

That seems to be the case in the US as well and the question arises, as of when can you count yourself as "ordinary people"? Even here on the c99p there are many, who seem to have a somewhat secure life, with no worries to lose their homes and enough retirement money to not fall into poverty once they are old. I guess the only issue they have to fear is their lacking health care coverage. (Imo the only reason why Sanders sticks to his guns on health care and is relatively silent - as Merkel is - on foreign policy issues. They know those foreign policy issues are political suicide). In any case, those folks are ordinary, but with less worries and needs than the "real ordinary" people.

There are millions of ordinary Americans, who fear every day that they lose their small underpaid jobs, gigs, temporary part-time positions, lose their shelter, have not enough money to buy food and fear not to get health care, and not enough money to go to college. That is not the case in Germany.

So, I ask myself, how bad of a life do the 'ordinary people' in Germany have to have, so that they feel compelled to vote for a party that can easily be abused - at least rhetorically - for racist ideological issues?

As far as I know, an 'ordinary German' has not to fear to go bankrupt, because he gets sick, he has not to fear to lose a rental contract, just because the landlord feels it's time for his tenant to go, a tenant has tremendous protection in Germany and after a certain number of years, a landlord can't get rid of their tenants anymore.

The only 'hardship' I see, ordinary people in Germany have, is losing their jobs or having none to begin with, which is obviously a greater issue in former East German regions. Still, compared to the US, they are better protected against hire and fire at will conditions you could find in the US. And as I mentioned in other posts, the AFD voter's motivation was not only class related, but "law and order" related. Am I wrong to believe that the 'ordinary German' still lives quite securely with his "Euro" and doesn't really need "a Deutsche Mark" back in his portemonnaie?

See, I have no "guts feelings" for the "EU issues". I would have to live in Greece or Portugal or Spain to understand the hardship of its 'ordinary people', which are caused by EU austerity measures. I have difficulties to distinguish from factual and honestly truthful articles to those who seem to be more partisan and propaganda orientated.

I remember a bit some videos of Yanis Varoufakis and the Syriza government. Most of the economic issues were beyond my paygrade. I am an ordinary woman and no academic (ok, not true, but not in a history, economy or political science field and am no professional and no writer, just ordinary... you know). Therefore I am a little insecure and keep a distance to issues around the EU's economically "imperial" tendencies. But I must admit that the article I posted helped me understand more than I had before.

May be ordinary people are those who are not academics, but workers on bottom line. Like a Walmart worker, or a landscape / maintenance guy. People, who wouldn't necessarily read sophisticated academically worded articles about austerity measures of the EU and who imposes them. Those ordinary people I know, are way too tired to read much after a day of work.(at least here in the US)

I talked to my 'ordinary' and 'elderly' sister in Germany today. She has not a clue and just said the AFD is a crazy little group, nobody takes seriously here, and I just thought OMG how can she be so ignorant. But you know it's my sister, she is over 74 and slowly fading. Like so many ordianry people. Still she is tremendously safe and she will never lose her shelter, nor her health care, on top of that she never earned her own living and therefore has no clue, how it feels to have not such securities.

I need to come home to Germany at other locations than my parents house, I grew up in, and smell the coffee on the streets...Through the intertubes I smell something else. May be I am manipulated and live in a bubble?

Thanks for coming here. Please come again. I learn from your comments and links and would miss them a lot.
Give rose

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

lotlizard's picture

and also among some people who — like the founders of the political weekly Jungle World — support Israel and U.S. neocon foreign policy, and have split from the rest of the German Left for that reason.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/28/germany.lukeharding

Meming celebration of Harris, architect of the Royal Air Force’s destruction of the city — oh, now that’ll win friends and influence people in Dresden, eh? </sarcasm>

Also, Dresdeners have good reason to be suspicious of the sudden recent efforts by “historians” and “researchers” (gatekeepers for whom?) to lowball the number who died in the firebombing of Dresden at “only” 25,000. When, in contrast, for sixty years after World War II there was a consensus that, since the city was full of uncounted families fleeing from the East, no one would ever know for sure, but that estimates like 100,000 or 150,000 were not out of line.

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@lotlizard
What is that? Shizophrenia? A Mental Health Problem? Sigh. The article is from 2006. Are they still there? The "Anti-German" Germans? Or did they change colors? Like a chameleon?

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

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@lotlizard
I just started to read “The Anti-Germans” – The Pro-Israel German Left article and am profoundly confused. That needs to be read twice, swallowed and digested.

Thanks, lotlizard. We shall meet again on this subject... Smile

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

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@lotlizard
that I never got or understood the Ossie - Wessie split living in the US and not reading much of the German newspapers in the nineties and beyond. I had to read the US based news, not German news. This is one issue that never crossed over the Atlantik from Germany into my conscience clearly and deep enough.

I remember how disappointed I was learning about the divide and the hurt feelings of the Ossies. Til today I have never been to Dresden. I know East Germany just as a student in the seventies crossing through from Hamburg to West Berlin, where I went to University. I have a deep, dark hole in my understanding of Germany after reunification. Unfortunately.

Thanks for the article. I just wondered how one could translate it, but I think it's too much of a "homegrown" issue and language to give it a try for the readership here.

I do fully understand the article and I feel empathy.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

lotlizard's picture