Democrats are falling in love with war criminals
Normally I spend my time knocking the corporate elites of the Democratic Party, but this time I have some choice words for the rank-and-file Democratic voter.
Let's start with John McCain. A man who has never met a war he didn't like.
Democrats now view McCain much more positively than they did two years ago, with their 71% favorable ratings representing a 22-percentage-point increase since then. Republicans' opinions have grown more negative, though their 10-point decline (from 61% to 51%) is about half as large as the Democratic increase. Independents' opinions of McCain are virtually the same as they were two years ago.
Democrats once pretended to oppose extreme warhawkishness. Those days are over.
It isn't just McCain. Dems have warmed up to George Dubya Bush as well.
Bush's favorability now approaches that of former President Barack Obama, who measured at 63% in the same poll, conducted June 7-11.
...
Compared with Bush's post-presidential low point in 2009, his favorable rating has nearly doubled among political independents to 56% and has increased fourfold among Democrats to 41%. His already positive 72% rating from Republicans in 2009 has improved less, registering 82% today.
George Bush is still a war criminal.
And let's not forget Hillary's embrace of the war criminal Henry Kissinger, who even today is pushing for war with Iran.
It's pathetic to watch Democrats make fools of themselves rehabilitating Republican war criminals like this. Even the establishment Democratic mouthpiece, Washington Post, has noticed.
The emerging unholy alliance between hawkish Democrats and neoconservatives
As for how I feel about this, Caitlin Johnstone summed up my position better than I could.
Have you recently found yourself wanting to vomit as one of your liberal friends says something like “Gosh, I never would have believed I’d agree with Dick Cheney on anything, but he really makes sense here” or “It’s exciting that we’re finally able to come together and agree on a few things with people like John McCain and Lindsey Graham”? They act like it’s some kind of ideology-transcending unification in the face of great evil, but nothing could be further from the truth: in reality, they’re finding themselves agreeing with the neocons lately because they themselves have become neocons. They are the same ideology, and they have become the evil.
Comments
Never forget
the suck up to Henry fucking Kissinger.
It's more proof that there's no difference between a demonrat and a rupugnican.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
And this statement will still get one banned on ToP
I saw this type of comment there yesterday in the diary about Markos' asinine statement.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Sure it will.
There is nothing there willful blindness.
And never forget......it's our fault.
Proud to be blamed.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
A great deal has changed with Demexit, but also with
in a positive way with campaigns.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
@snoopydawg
Lol, has anyone tried posting this there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svzb8gc9jt0
Shows how much substance there is to the RUSSIA!!! paranoia propaganda better than perhaps could anything else.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Well they have warmly embraced the CIA
probably the most dangerous organisation on the planet that aided and abetted war criminals on a truly global scale, so why not embrace our home grown ones?
Need a democratically elected government prevented/changed? Call the CIA.
PS they even accepted Hillary Clinton's fond embrace of that lovable war criminal Henry Kissinger with near total passivity.
As long as it's a politician...
promoting violence against somebody they don't like, the average voter is quite willing to be talked into any ideological postion.
There's a darkness in America that hides behind our facade of democracy. It doesn't take much to create a riot, and the MSM knows which buttons to push.
With McCain and Bush, the button they want to push is "EVERYBODY, even Republicans, Hate Trump. Vote Hillary". Unfortunately for them, they're hammering it so much that it seems to have had the opposite effect on anyone who wasn't already in the Democrats or Republicans camp. Which is of course why you'll never see a poll of non-partisans taken seriously. Even if they make up the majority, to the MSM, they don't count.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I've been saying that over and over for years
I'm truly sick of this pardon our party bullshit. The final straw for me was the party faithful's reaction to the MSF Kunduz Hospital bombing, total acceptance of a war crime based solely upon who was in charge in the WH.
It's the main reason why I have given the middle finger to the duopoly for good.
Options? Will the DSA make it out of the pre-party phase?
We will see.
Meteor_Blades follows
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
yep. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Maybe a month or so ago, maybe longer
two of my friends, who I send stuff to all the time, actually had a little text about GWB and the one who had hated him the most actually said he looks "cuddly now" and she "could just hug him." I still don't know if that was just snark I did not get or half way serious, but I think the latter. The other one mentioned that even Mittens was better, and both thought maybe Pence wouldn't be that bad? I think I've since then talked sense into both of them, but its disturbing to hear some others call for "unity" now, how we just need to come together.... Unless it's together to rid ourselves of the parasitic ownership class, it doesn't matter and I'll keep saying that until they get sick of hearing it.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
The Joys of ISIS brought to you by G W Bush.
The Privileges of an Imperial and Sole Superpower.
We are exceptional, we pardon are own fucking war crimes.
With help and indifference from Obama
he knew that they were a threat, but he wanted so badly to overthrow Assad, he watched as they grew in ranks.
He also possibly helped fund them or knew that the Saudis and Israel were funding them and turned a blind eye to it.
He certainly did arm, train and funded Al Qaida and all its offshoots.
The turning point for me was when so many democrats accepted his drone program because they said that they saved our troop's lives. Not one of the people I fought with about this ever questioned the right for Obama to do that in the first place.
His supporting the Saudis in Yemen is another war crime to tack on to his many others.
He sold more weapons to foreign countries than any other president in history. And even after people found out about Hillary's pay for play part in selling those weapons, people refused to see her as a warmonger.
And this was after she destroyed Libya and cackled after watching Gaddafi's brutal death. This should have been when people started saying WTF!, but even after that and after she said that Kissinger was her BFF and that he gave her good advice when she was SOS, her supporters still defended her.
He helped set up the next genocide. Over 20 million people in Yemen are at risk of dying from starvation and cholera and still this country is helping the Saudis commit genocide by blocking all supplies of food and medicine.
20 million is 3 times the number of Jewish people who died in WWII and the world said Never Again , except for the next time and the time after that.
This is Obama's legacy.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
@snoopydawg
And that in just one country out of them all... if the American people all only knew the actual truth...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
yes we need unity
with certain qualifications... unity behind war mongers? not so much. left, right, middle can make the majority. not dem, rep, ind or what have you. redefine what is best for our future and work together for that. we can get there if we reject the propaganda and create our own direction.
question everything
This country and its people
are so fucked up. Where are all the people who are against war? The police state? Rising inequality?
Where the hell are all the people who think like us here at C99%?
Are we THAT alone?
If the few thousand people here are all that's left of the former Democrat Party, where is that jug of koolaid, I might as well take a big o' slug of it.
Ba-a-a. Ba-a-a-a-a
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Most of them get real upset like when you even hint that
God's Empire committed a war crime.
As can be seen every time the Hiroshima & Nagasaki anniversaries
roll around on the calendar . . .
It's priorities
#1) Trump didn't denounce racists hard enough.
Result) Dems blow up the internet in moral outrage.
#2) U.S. bomb and kills dozens of innocent civilians on a daily basis.
Results) [crickets]
The country is sick to its core. Our society is mentally ill.
The wrong party bombs and kills people they get a trifle upset
but then pardon "their" side of the duopoly for voting for the bombing. Sick doesn't even start to get there.
Besides, “sick” nowadays can even mean something positive
Ahh, those kids today and their slang . . . I tellz ya . . .
the "gig" economy and our national mental illness
When the vast majority of our working classes have no economic security, but subsist from one "gig" to another (if they're lucky!), mental illness becomes and remains rampant! With fertile soil like that, the tiniest seed is all it takes.
And the war profiteers pay handsomely to make sure that noxious seed is sown, too.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
not sure societal insanity is to blame
to realise the constitutional authority given to us as "the people" without present recourse is maddening, I still think sanity lies in realising our potential strength working together
question everything
societal insanity
Ummm, what "constitutional authority" are you talking about? Just because "We the People" are the first three words doesn't confer any authority. In fact, as other c99ers have pointed out, the Federal Constitution doesn't even guarantee "We the People" the right to vote!
And our current situation is maddening indeed. In a world where change only happens by ballot or bullet, when the ballot fails, the situation is dire indeed. And the ballot has indeed failed us in 2016, as anyone who ever supported Bernie Sanders' Presidential bid can tell you!
So, if not deliberately cultivated societal insanity, then what?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides
Personally, I took the comment to be proposing a cure for the illness, in recognizing that the great bulk of Americans - of the people of the world - have been crammed into a very small boat while our goods and rights are carried off in giant liners by a relative few intending that we should perish in their wake.
In working together, as people, rather than attempting to push each 'other' out into the deep blue sea, thereby also sealing our own lonely fate, as is intended by TPTB.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Five basic rules for fascist empire re: General Population
1. Keep them stupid: Education costs are insane. Hell, the only way to even get an education these days is to take out massive student loan debt. And that's if you survive the grade school bullshit, which our supposed betters also work tirelessly to make worse through bullshit testing measures put in place purely to punish teachers. These same 'betters' are also pushing hand over fist to voucherize and privatize every district in the name of white flight and union busting.
Meanwhile, the administrators and sports coaches make out like bandits. Hell, for some, universities are little more than professional sports training camps.
2. Keep them scared: Phantom enemies created for the sake of endless corporate wars not for defense of god and country but for acquisition of resources and profits. But tell the plebs those brown people over there will nuke us unless we steal their land and resources.
3. Keep them sick: 'Murica is currently going through a massive Opioid epidemic. Why else do you think we're in Afghanistan right now? Oh, and don't forget the insurance and pharma cabals are making money hand over fist. Obamacare made things worse in many respects, including privatizing parts of Medicare and Medicaid. Meanwhile, the 2-party duopoly continues to fight tooth and nail AGAINST real reform like Single Payer precisely because said cabals bribe them with more money than most of us will ever see in several lifetimes. It also doesn't help that the insurance and pharma companies spend more on overhead, be it advertising or legal teams to fight claims, than they do on actual care or research.
4. Keep them tired: With the good jobs gone and wages so low even the wealthy of the roaring 20s would blush, making ends meet is near impossible unless you're well connected. Most people are working anywhere from 2 to four jobs just to survive with most of that work being temporary or gigs because god forbid any company pays a decent wage or benefits.
With all this shit going on, is it any wonder our society is in a state of mass psychosis?
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
+1 Aspie
All to my point exactly!
And better spelled out, too!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Our whole global civilization
has veered off into insanity. Homo Sapien Horrendus.
we are everywhere
just not given a voice in the msm. thought process is stronger as the garbage we are fed gets weakened by the needs of the greedy. overcome
question everything
Hey, look here, there are plenty, join them or
create your own group! Begins with you !
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Oh Puh-lease. The 'left' is starting to love war criminals?
Considering it's continued support of The Empty Suit I'd say the 'left' not only supports war criminals, it's got one hell of a murderous thug of their own in the guy who drew up his famous Tuesday 'kill lists' and who not only did not investigate the reasons we destroyed a modern sovereign nation over lies (like he promised he would from the campaign trail), he started a few more wars on his own. His reason? To service his johns in the 1%. Now he's making bank for letting the bush** cabal AND the Wall Street banksters walk.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@Amanda Matthews Thank you for putting
Thank you for putting quotation marks around "left." I really deeply despise the practice of calling Democrats and their party "the left."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
not sure we identify with that definition
of the left or whatever. our morales are beyond duopoly. oh sh*t permission to make our own mission statement?
question everything
Dumbfounded, that's how I felt that day
when I read the New York Times article about Obama's "Kill List" with a small group of men going over the bio on playing cards in private to decide who will die (along with anyone nearby) in remote places on the other side of the world. Where was the outrage? Where were the Courts, including the UN? This is a blatant war crime, no fuzzy lines here but the lack of anger by the general Public and the NYT's paper itself is a terrible thing for this Country.I mean this sh*t is not new, but it has never been admitted openly but the proverbial mask is off with total impunity for the war criminals.
Imagine if that kind of news was about Assad, Putin or anyone we have in our cross-hairs at any given time, that would be in the headlines and every talking head on every media form would be screaming about the total lack of concern for human rights, or international law and just the pure evil in that act and they would be right.
Terror Tuesday is the perfect name for it because that's what it means to the victims and it fits every definition of terrorism, in other words a war crime. The lack of any charges filed against the condemned person(s)or having any other part of due process (the bedrock of Constitutional law) honored,should be a huge shock to the general Public especially considering it is not some Watergate type news but instead an 'in your face' 'what law'? what are you gonna do or can do about it article. Simply explaining (in a most limited way) some process of another govt. program, nothing to see here.
I guess you can say that what I most shocked about was the lack of shock to people across the Country, and the World.
Evil is worse when it comes with a smile, and being a person very well schooled in Constitutional law, Obama knew more than anyone else the laws, and morals he was spitting on.
The old Constitutional 'scholar' shit all
over the damn thing. And now he's out collecting his rewards fir letting Wall Street walk and starting more wars to build up corporate Amurika's swollen to overflowing bank balances.
As I have openly stated many times about The Empty Suit, I HATE HATE HATE that man. He's as low tent, opportunistic, and sleazy as Clinton, bush**, Cheney, and the rest of the neocon/neoliberal money grubbing war whores.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Just mention McCain's Keating 5 scandal
and then listen to a Democrat dress you down for dishonoring a war hero. "Democrats are better than that", except back in the day, he almost went down for that shit, thanks to Democrats. But that was then, before McCain spent decades promoting war, promoting the shredding, and theft of basic freedoms of...Democrats.
I gave the Nation article about the VIPS debunking the Russian hack to a Democrat for her reading pleasure, and it didn't even merit a reply when she read it, because Rachel would strenuously disagree and call it ct.
I did send a pm to a pal here that discussed with her, c99 is a small site filled with outliers. We are so far out of mainstream thinking and pov, and we are a tiny slice of the American fucking Pie, too tiny to be served at a socially acceptable table.
We gather daily to write and discuss, to think, and we do it so often, we think we are part of some significant group.
We are important to each other. We might mean the world to others on this site. We argue, we agree, we get stronger in our cyber hugs and handshakes and sharing.
But we are unable to even pass someone else's impeccable journalism onto Democrats without incurring insults.
I don't know how to change it. I am losing enthusiasm to try.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
It's backwards
The Russian hacking thing has not been proven. Even the official report never claims incontrovertible proof.
So if it's not proven it's a theory by definition.
What more, a group of Russian hackers is a conspiracy by definition.
@gjohnsit Please tell Rachel!
Please tell Rachel! She is poisoning the fucking well! lol!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The Big Giant Head's only spewed
Party line propaganda since she got the job.
Cannot stand the woman. Listening to her is like listening to Lawrence O'Donnell's strident hysteria. They are the 'left's' own Pirro and Hannity.
EDIT: typos. Of course.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@on the cusp
It's OK, Maddow gets waaaaay more than 30 pieces of silver and as much free kool-aid as she wants for what she does, so believes that she has no need of that poisoned well at all. Too bad that it also poisons the groundwater and the ground on which she stands, but that's all in a propagandists days work.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Obama himself told people that there wasn't any proof
that Russia interfered with the election or hacked the DNC computers and people still won't accept that this is made up crap that came out of nowhere and right after Herheinous lost the election to DFT of all people. Good lord, I'd be too embarrassed to show my face in public again.
Instead, rumors are that she might run again. 3rd time is not going to be the charm for her.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
@on the cusp Rather than feeling like
Rather than feeling like we are a tiny group of outliers, I would suggest that you are looking in the wrong place for kindred spirits. You're not going to find many of them among the Democrats. In fact, you might find fewer of them among the Democrats than among the Republicans, at this point. But you will find the most support and agreement among those who are political independents, unaligned with party. When you look at a poll, look at what the independents support. I find that, most of the time, what the independents support is close to what I support.
The most recent numbers I've found say that 42% of the nation are political independents, 26% are Republicans, and 29% are Democrats. That means that 55% of the nation belongs to one of the two major parties (I assume the pollsters are leaving out unregistered voters, so I will too, for simplicity, but I think there's a case to be made for unregistered voters being more like independents than partisans, which would mean like-minded folks are even more numerous than the numbers suggest). Leaving out the unregistered, we are 42% of the population, and both parties combined are 55%. A 13% difference, though substantial, does not strike me as making us a tiny group of outliers.
We really need to shed our identities as Democrats, IMO. Simply Demexiting may not be enough--we have, some of us, a lifetime of assumptions that went along with a political reality that no longer exists.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
you hit it
it's the damn nomenclature that gets us lost in the woods. we are more than particular party dwellers. get beyond the labels and we are mostly all working toward a better future. just not the one being fed us. there are more choices.
question everything
@QMS In fact, I'd argue
In fact, I'd argue that most of us here at C99 are the opposite of party dwellers.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
absolutely agree with your argument
it's why it is so enlightening to dwell here
question everything
That 55% is somewhat deceptive, though.
While Dems and Repubs are exactly the same party, most Dems will adamantly refuse to five for a Repug, and Pugs will vehemently refuse voting for a Jackass.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
@ghotiphaze That's certainly true
That's certainly true. And we outnumber either party's rank and file.
It's also true that not every independent agrees with me, or with the general opinions here at C99; it's true that not every independent is on the left, either.
But I bet most independents probably agree on the fact that we're living in a heap of totalitarian bullshit, that most of the people at the top aren't trustworthy, and that we're regularly fed a pack of lies by the media. I bet there's a stronger tendency in independents toward, well, independent thinking, as in, they refer to their own internal ideas about how you determine what is true instead of engaging in groupthink. And I'd even guess that there's a stronger liking for using what we might call the principles of reason to find out the truth than there is in either party. I don't mean enshrining the principles of reason as a fetish object, like the Bill of Rights is enshrined in the Archives, but actually living by them, in practice.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I've always been amused at the casual way
... partisans assume that independents are, by definition, either Republicans or Democrats who just don't want the label. At the same time they rail at all the votes they don't get from these assumed Democrats. It's yet another example of cognitive dissonance at it's most blatant.
The more obvious answer, I'm an Independent because I don't think either party represents me, doesn't occur to them.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
@on the cusp I'm gonna have to
I'm gonna have to withdraw my thumbs up because of what you said about "we think we're part of a significant group." I seriously disagree with the assumption that our opinions are a tiny sliver of the American pie.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I am just talking in
I am just talking in terms of numbers.
We are so damn few. That takes nothing away from our non-partisan pov.
We may very well be the only sane people in this sorry ass country right now.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
@on the cusp C99 is small. But if
C99 is small. But if you're talking about people in this country who hold something close to our point of view, even mainstream polls don't show us to be a sliver. Not recently.
Far more people agree with me now than did in the 80s, or even the 90s. Why do you think that Hillary had to cheat so much in the primary? How in the hell could a not very charismatic guy who looks like somebody's college professor, who was known by only 3% of the country and had no PAC funding and next to no coverage in the mainstream press, come within an ace of beating Her Highness? By essentially repeating one speech, with tweaks? The people were ready. More than ready. The people were ahead of him. They just needed a vehicle.
We're not few, we're disempowered.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@on the cusp For that matter, why
For that matter, why do you think the Russia narrative failed to make a reasonable return on investment? We often feel sick at heart because the Russia narrative shouldn't have worked on anyone, and instead it worked on millions of people--worse, it worked on people who had previously been liberals, people highly educated, people we used to trust. It's demoralizing. But the fact is that given the saturation-level bombardment of propaganda on this matter, it's a ridiculous level of return on investment. A messaging expert/political consultant/propagandist would not be happy with this response.
This is a poll from May about whether or not Russians interfered with the election:
The May 21-23 survey found 44 percent of people think Russia attempted to influence the presidential election to help Trump, not rival Hillary Clinton. Last December, fewer than one-third of respondents said the Russians tipped the scales in Trump's favor. Forty-nine percent said Russia had no effect on the race, down 10 percentage points from 59 percent in December.
I haven't been able to find the December poll they're referring to, and they annoyingly don't say what the actual number is (fewer than one-third doesn't help me much). But let's say 25%-30% believed Russia messed with the election in December, and in May, it's up to 44%. That would be a 14%-19% jump. That's not surprising, when you spend from December to May in saturation mode, bombarding people constantly with the same message.
But is it a good result for the propagandist? Not really. You've managed to make less than half the American people believe your message, after putting that message on full throttle in a way most of us haven't seen since the Lewinsky thing in the 90s. In other words, not only was the message repeated constantly, and with high drama (dire warnings of foreigners having struck at the very heart of our culture, etc.), but also the message was allowed to drown out most other news. After doing that for nearly 6 months, you should see a better return on investment than 44%. And most other polls showed similar results: half, or just under half, of the American people believe this story. Compare that to the 72% who believed we should go to war in Iraq:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/8038/seventytwo-percent-americans-support-war...
Now that's the kind of result you want.
I admit it's horrible that 44% of the American people are being manipulated like this, and worse that some of those who had previously taken the position of guardians of rationality in public discourse have deserted their posts and gone to paint the town red in an orgy of authoritarianism, xenophobia, and bad logic. But the point is, this is not success for a propagandist.
There are far more people who agree with me now than have at any other time in my life. It's just that we have no way to make our opinions effect change.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Are we really so few though?
I certainly thought I was pretty much alone before Bernie's run but that was a real eye-opener for me. The man came within an eyelash against every trick, legal and otherwise, that the corporatists could play. Looking at his fundraising numbers alone it was apparent I was far from alone.
I don't think people like me are all that rare. I think we are fragmented. I think we don't know where to come together (in large groups) and who to do it with. I think the non-partisans are in the act of trying to coalesce into something which can effect political change. I think that's going to be a slow process which does not yield significant results this election or next.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
If I worried about
results I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. The RW totally kicking our ass. All we can do is put in the work. We're up against not only the Oligarchy but voters that have totally bought in to the el Rushbos and Vanitys that regurgitate the Oligarch talking points at least 3 hours a day to their sheeple listenership. All we can do is continue the fight and wait for the sheeple to catch up. Time on our side.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I'll disagree that
we have time. If climate chaos doesn't kill the food chain, and the methane feedback loop doesn't torch the planet, and the phytoplankton(producing oxygen) don't die off, and. . .
Ya feel me?
Stop These Fucking Wars
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Maybe less time than we think
Russia has to react in view of massive militarization of the region against the background of high tensions. An accident may spark a big fire. The US military presence in Ukraine is a highly provocative step, which will very negatively affect the situation. Nothing justifies the whipping up of tensions in the Black Sea region, but the United States keeps on doing it with great vigor.http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-14/ukraine-hosts-us-military-be-pe...
Well, all that Russia
baiting don't mean a thing unless they bring back the Draft. Russia, Gloabal Warming... that's all stuff beyond C99 control. And, if it's beyond my control... I don't much pay attention to it. One, Global Warming ain't taking out the planet any time soon - certainly not in my lifetime - so that's an issue I don't worry about. And, two, despite Trump and the alt-right biting at the bit to tangle with the Ruskies, I don't believe America going to let that happen. Fighting the Oligarchy? That's something I can actually lend a hand too, even has a slight chance of being successful.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
They don't need a draft to blow up the earth
There are more than enough people in the military now who are able to push a button. Ground/troop wars are only for the last century or for little countries we want to squash.
I gave up worrying
about "The Bomb" about 35 years ago. See no need to start worrying now. Besides... we got drones. Thems are something to worry about.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Democrats on neo liberal path for 40 years
I don't know about you, but this last election brought out so many crimes of the Clintons that were shocking.
And the end of his term, Obama "mr TPP" showed his true colors
And then the corporate democrats followed the money and not only horrible Hillary but Tim Cane!!!
And they still are trying to stay the course to keep the money rolling in
Yves Smith this morning on Naked Capitalism brings up a book that is almost 40 years old that shows the democrats walking away from the people. And things written that long ago ring true today.
It is going to be very hard for the democratic party to go back to that radical position like the new deal.
Just to pick one area: election integrity. Not only is it a winning issue. Not only until it is fixed it will be harder to steal elections. The neglect by the democrats is aiding the crime against our constitution.
But, hey, if you are a warmonger, spending trillions, murder and mayhem around the globe, killing your own people with police, drugs, economics, etc. What is a little thing like voting?
Here is the link to the article. In some ways no big deal. In other ways -- speaking for myself --- why did it take the Bernie campaign and the Clinton campaign and the victory of Trump for me to know for sure that the establishment democrats have an outside chance to change.
“The Changing of the Guard:” The Prescient 1980 Book That Foretold the Democrat Love Affair With Neoliberalism
The first part of the article are Yves thoughts and then the article by angry bear.
One of the comments reminded us of George Monbiot's article from April 16, 2016
Neoliberalism – the ideology at the root of all our problems: Financial meltdown, environmental disaster and even the rise of Donald Trump – neoliberalism has played its part in them all. Why has the left failed to come up with an alternative?
@DonMidwest Thanks so much for that,
Thanks so much for that, donmidwest. I will read them tonight.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
This has been going on for more than 40 decades
Eugene Debs was speaking out against our political system back in 1894.
He organized the biggest worker strike in history and it got shut down.
I didn't know much about him until I read Hedge's article on him.
Eugene Debs and the Kingdom of Evil
Thanks for the links to the articles .
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Seriously?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
McCain is Hillary in menswear. Better-looking pantsuits,
if you will.
I've posted for a good while that neoliberals are neocons-with luck, pro-choice neocons; and we should stop using words for them that contain the word liberal.
As far as Obama taking issue with McCain's singing about bombing, he can kiss my Beach Boys. It was not Trump or McCain who started military action in the various nations we're messing with now, though Congress does fund. How many did you post about the other day? Six? Eight? So, it's okay to kill "some folks" as long as you're not tone deaf (politically incorrect) enough to sing about it.
I think it's 9 nations now
We started drone attacts in the southern Philippines. Chasing the remnants of Allepo,s Isis fighters halfway 'round the world.
The fleeing fighters we were providing air cover for when we shot down the Syrian SU 22.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Bill Kristol
Bill Kristol is also becoming quite popular with the "left" (or whatever you want to call them) because he's anti-Trump. Nevermind that Kristol is the murderous architect of the Iraq war, as long as he's anti-Trump he's part of the resistance. *vomit*
What a sad state of affairs. I don't think the US as a nation will last much longer.
I believe Kristol endorsed Hillary, either openly
or implicitly.
While George Will was on This Week, he implicitly endorsed Obama. Will spoke incredulously of how McCain had suspended his campaign and flown back into Washington, saying McCain's actions had "scared some people." Then Will contrasted Obama's actions, concluded that Obama had look Presidential. George Frickin' Will.
I was watching that day. My jaw dropped.
And the bots say the left is Republican. Sure. Left is right. Furthermore, black is white, right is wrong and Tuesday is the weekend.
war is peace
And war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength. (George Orwell, 1984)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
trick is to outsmart them
we know what is bs. read the offensive strategy, plant your basis on what is good and grow a plan to oppose the destructive direction they are trying to herd us. and yell like hell
question everything
yell like hell -- turn it up
As Alan Parsons put it so well:
source
[video:https://youtu.be/98MbfAATOc0]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
it's not what you think..
it's merely a reflection...
question everything
The answers lie within, discoverable for those who seek.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Sirius/Eye in the Sky
With Eric Woolfson, no less! (may he rest in peace and honor!)
Tasty!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
yep. And don't forget
to point and shame them every chance you get. Granted, they have no shame, believe strongly in fucking America, but others will take note. Shame them long and hard, hold your ground.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Lol
The Man Who Would Be Wrong
80% of democrats still support war criminal extraordinaire
Obama too, just like the last eight years.
That's the democratic party.
I have seen the same thing regarding Trump and the alt right with many posters here, relative to agreeing with them on some things however. I don't see any difference with that than democrats agreeing with McCain and Kristol on some things. It still comes down to siding with an enemy of my enemy. Which in the end is still an enemy.
In fact, Johnstone herself is a big proponent of that isn't she? I wonder if she still wants to work with Cernovich?
80% of 25 % of the voters
becomes a fringe affair. like one in 85,000? not a majority opinion, except for the msm
question everything
That's the thing.
The twenty percenters are controlling the narrative while 60% are left out. The trick is figuring out how to get the 60% in the game.
thinking maybe another narrative
needs to come to the fore front. We can't seem to control the direction of the vitriol and push backs are limited by the confusers. Let's invent a new story, so outlandish, even the creepy sheepies want to believe it and give it legs. New phenom or some such. If they can buffalo us with BS, why not use their ruse and create an equally stupid alt-reality. My imagination flares at the possibilities...
question everything
Yep, that's the thing.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
@QMS That is, indeed, the
That is, indeed, the point.
We need to get over this voice-crying-in-the-wilderness idea we have about ourselves. Not sure whether we think we're John the Baptist, Jonah, or Job's messenger (I alone escaped to tell thee), but whatever it is, we're not it. I've been watching the polls (and the party registration numbers). They don't bear out the narrative that we are the tiny sliver of the population who are rational truthseekers and that the majority of the American population is a bunch of bloodthirsty chumps with no moral compass. For one thing, if we were, Bernie Sanders' campaign would have garnered about as much attention as Martin O'Malley's. And I'm not saying that because I think Sanders is a moral anti-war activist, or something; I'm talking about what he presented to the American people during his campaign, not what or who he really is.
Remember this? (It's too bad he didn't really mean it)
Before anybody tells me Portland is an outlier, full of dirty hippies, remember that this moment spread like wildfire among the public and became sufficiently inspiring to enough people that Rachel Maddow felt the need to trivialize it on her show (it's always good to watch the mainstream news trying to put a lid on something--that's when you know they perceive a threat). And besides, West Virginia isn't full of dirty hippies and look at this:
I'm pretty sure somebody will tell me that support for Bernie Sanders' campaign doesn't indicate that a person has a moral compass or prefers truth to lies, because Bernie Sanders is a warmonger, because he bought the Russia shit, because he's a sheepdog, etc. But that is not the point. The point is what he was selling during the campaign. I don't care how cynical you are about Sanders; what he was selling was pretty much entirely based on truth, and it definitely had a moral compass. It left out some things, but most people don't respond to what is left out, they respond to what is put in. What was put into that speech was true, and good, though it did not go nearly far enough. And it sold like hotcakes. Why? Well, one reason is that the American people are not, by default, bloodthirsty greedy lying chumps.
I can't believe we keep buying into one of the master narratives the establishment keeps selling us, long after its sell-by date is past. This shit was true in the 80s, the 90s, and, god help us, in the first 5-6 years of this century (that was the worst). But the triple punch of Katrina, the Iraq War (in particular the mendacity of our leaders in "justifying" it), and the 2008 crash, which was more like a drunk stealing your car and crashing it deliberately into a wall over and over again than an accident, has changed America. The old confidence in America, its institutions, its dreams, and a whole set of beliefs is dead for over half the population, at least.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm thinking you are on to something here
great stuff
question everything
@QMS Thanks, QMS.
Thanks, QMS.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
For once I have no words about this except
Absolutely Stunning!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
And yet his brother couldn't get anywhere.
Apparently, regardless of the reputation rehabilitation, America still doesn't want another Bush in the White House. Hmmm.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
These polls take no notice of Demexit.
I think we, ourselves, sometimes underestimate the significance of what has happened between June 2016 and now.
The people left in the Democratic party are those who can make their peace with Hillary Clinton and Debbie Wasserman Schultz and what they did--both politically, and in terms of policies they support.
You are talking about people who could bring themselves to vote for this (start at 4:28):
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Doesn't John McCain
owe the U.S. government many thousands of dollars for all the planes he crashed?
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
They will never collect.
It's only our awareness of the unholy alliance that is emerging
the Clintonistas and by extension the Democratic Party has always been in lock step with the neocons. It's just taken a lot of people a long time to finally notice it.
Not only war and empire, but domestic policies also
Hillary basically en-mass rejected Bernie's domestic programs such as single payer, college tuition, min. wage, etc. While her supporters tried to re-invent her as a progressive, even without Wikileaks revelations, it was clear where she stood on many issues. And those were positions of a Rockefeller republican--who she supported in college.
And her base of supporters went along with her policies and voting record.
When she got (stole) the nomination, I was under the illusion that the base was progressive and democratic leadership corrupt and corporate, and lording it over the yearning progressive base. Well, the primaries cured me of that. The Clinton wing of the democratic party is substantial, and it is NOT progressive, and barely liberal. The difference between gopers and democrats is that the gop was to eliminate programs such as food stamps, while the democrats are just happy to cut them.