An Open Letter to Daily Kos Admin...

I'm hesitant to publish this.

On the one hand, although the genesis of C99 is at DKos and many or most of us found our way here from there, if C99 becomes just another in a dreary series of places to vent about the foibles and mismanagement of DKos, Caucus99 can never succeed... or at any rate, never succeed in an interesting and politically valuable way.

On the other hand, it is only fucking yesterday we were piously instructed to tiptoe through the Hillary eggshells, so maybe just a bit more venting will be therapeutic. So...

An Open Letter to DKos Admin

Never say never I suppose, but it's hard to imagine what could draw me back to DKos now. Hope to see a few of you around Caucus99 from time to time. You'll be welcome.

Other than the obvious finger-on-the-scale bias of the March 15 deadline, yesterday's diary was remarkably clever and subtle by Markos' standards. It all seems so reasonable and inoffensive, little more really than a restatement of DKos first principles. Who can object to a prohibition on the citation of rightwing sources or the recital of rightwing anti-Clinton tropes? As always though, the devil is in the details. I think Kos' failure to define these terms in any useful way is no accident. We can all agree I hope that the uncritical use of Infowars or the Weekly Standard is out of bounds. What about citation of the Wall Street Journal though, a "respectable" but FAR more influential and dangerous rightwing rag? Brooklynbadboy and others gleefully weaponized the WSJ's bizarre, counterfactual, deliberately misleading hit-piece on the alleged cost of Sanders' health plan, to widespread accolades from the DKos Clintonistas. Is that still "acceptable" discourse? What about the use of the Washington Post, still coasting on its "liberal" reputation, despite its longstanding neocon slant? OK to use without caveats?

Or consider the notion of "rightwing tropes." A ban on the regurgitation of conservative attacks from the Bill Clinton presidency--Whitewater, Vince Foster and all the rest--is one thing. I see no way for a progressive to use that crap, nor any reason why we would even want to try. No one IS reciting that stuff though, other than an occasional, soon-banned troll, so warning against it is, while harmless, also pointless and redundant. I have no problem at all adding Benghazi to that list of attacks that ARE rightwing, and Benghazi IS sometimes used by "respectable" Kossacks, though not very often that I've seen. Prohibiting Benghazi attacks is fine as far as I'm concerned.

What about Clinton's emails though? It's one thing to argue that apparently no laws were broken, and that in any case the chances that Clinton or her close aides will be indicted before November are very small (although I'll note in passing that very small ≠ zero.) It doesn't follow though that any discussion of the emails or the private server is necessarily inappropriate on a Democratic site. My wife is a long-time, fairly high-level employee of the Federal EPA (she's in Flint as I write this) and no Clinton-basher. She is absolutely appalled at Clinton's use of a private server to conduct State Department business. In her well-informed view, this crossed bright and well-understood ethical boundaries; the greenest entry-level Fed knows better than to do something like this. Is it out of bounds on DKos to honestly discuss the fact that this sort of out-of-touch arrogance reflects poorly on Clinton's chances in the general election--even against Trump--and gives one profound worry as well about her conduct in office, especially regarding the use of military force, if she IS elected President?

Or consider the FBI investigation into the emails. It's one thing to insist that headlines screaming "Indictments Near!" or the like have no place on DKos or any site that hopes to be taken seriously. That's fine, and if it means that some users will have to bite their tongue, I don't care all that much. It hardly follows though that the investigation doesn't matter or shouldn't be talked about at all. My brother is a good "conventional" liberal and will vote for any Democrat over any Republican, but he's far too busy working two jobs and raising a family to have the leisure to give much thought to politics. He solidly supports Bernie, without knowing all that much about his policy proposals. What has filtered into his distracted perception is that there's just so much scandal surrounding both Clintons; he doesn't really suppose Hillary is "guilty" of breaking the law, but he fears she'll be a dangerously weakened candidate in November. As I've said before on DKos, it's Politics 101: Perception IS Reality. If my brother sees Hillary surrounded by scandal, having in no way sought out that information, so will a lot of other voters. In Kos' world, is it too defeatist even to discuss that?

Is demanding speech transcripts a trope used only by a fringe of Clinton-haters? If so, the New York Times is on that same fringe. Is any mention at all of Clinton's ties with Wall Street and the mega-banks an unacceptable guilt-by-association slur, as her ardent supporters would have it? Is any suggestion that her enormous payments for brief speeches might be an attempt to purchase access really a bannable CT, even though most of us would denounce those same payments, made to a Republican?

The apparent ban on the use of certain words--warmonger, neocon, neoliberal--in reference to Clinton is especially silly. No question, these terms and others like them are used too casually and too often, frequently by people with no real understanding of their meanings. They all are useful terms with actual definitions though, and they all can be applied to Clinton without being ridiculous. Why should those of us able to use such terms properly be dumbed-down to the level of those who throw them around as empty epithets?

Etc...

I don't think Markos' failure to spell out any of this is casual or an accident. I think it's a carefully-crafted policy. I think he's consciously giving Clintonistas the tools to shut down debate, even debate that seems permissible within the new dicta. It goes back to the failure of Community Moderation. These rules might not be quite as objectionable or completely impossible to work within, IF misinterpretations of them, deliberately or otherwise, were policed as aggressively and consistently as were violations. I think we all know how unlikely that is.

Solidarity,

Phil

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poligirl's picture

and your last paragraph is right on target, this was no mistake or accident; it's by design. he all but said it with the whole Clinton is the nominee come March 15th...

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Raggedy Ann's picture

So ferocious!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

poligirl's picture

he's going with gusto, lol...

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I think you give Kos too much credit. He has always been about controlling the narrative in elections. He wants to control it. He gave us a voice/platform but we also gave him a more powerful voice. He just stopped listening to us at some point.
This site has legit potential in it's framing. I think if we can grow this and then build outwards we can achieve lots of good things independent of Daily Kos - which started with a much more basic platform.

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shaharazade's picture

a response to the Bushie regime. A real coalition of people who saw the need to crash the gates that still hold us captive to a thoroughly broken system of government. Obama was a bait and switch that did not work unless you blamed Republican obstruction. That was hard to swallow as Harry Reid and Nancy announced that 60 was a majority and the constitution was a quaint piece of paper and unenforceable as the rule of law was off the table. The fake, lame Democratic congress that people turned out for and voted for in 2006 refused to fight for 'we the people'. Actually they sucked as the loyal opposition during the Bushies and then sucked worse when they were handed the majority by the voters.

Enough with the vote Dem. down ballot meme. We tried that route here in Oregon. We worked locally and supported so called progressives and now they are demolishing Portland and Oregon is open for 'business'. They are all mostly Republican's in Democratic clothing as otherwise they could not win. What the fuck do you get Terry McAwful or my crooked Democratic governor who had to resign due to corruption? Hey my state county and state is Democratic and it is so corrupt it takes my breath away. So okay elect more Democrat's for some relief and see what you get. No officially blessed Democrat's including dog catcher is going to put this Humpty together again. As for better then or lesser evil I would say electing the current crop of party sanctioned Dems. on any level is worse because it is delusional to think these pols are any better then the horror show that is Republican. Sure they seem less insane they talk less insane but take a hard look at what they represent and implement. The same damn thing without overt theology and racism. Sure as hell isn't going to slow down the slide were in.

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BernieOrBust's picture

But here's where I think the Dems have been extremely dangerous to this country. They fooled and/or scared so many of us for so long and we thought they were actually representing us and doing the best they could. In reality, The DLC, Turd Way, New Dems took over the Dem Party with Clinton and have for the most part been representing Wall Street/Corps/1% for the last 25 years. That has been awful for the American public and Dem voters. It's taken the wind out of our sails, the trust factor is almost zero in our political system (coming from both sides of the aisle). At least the GOP are in your damn face as to what they are about. Their social veneer of "help", "patriotism", "personal responsibility" was so thin that only the dumbest and most gullible among us ever took them seriously. But the Dems were slick as shit and had MULTI MILLIONS of people believing they actually cared about them.... hell.... look how well HRC is doing in this primary....she and the party are still hoodwinking many/most/majority of the party. Crazy! But the veneer on the Dems is getting worn/chipped/cracked and more and more people are on to their shenanigans. Between that, the pain and poverty so many of us feel, and BERNIE... WONDERFUL BERNIE spreading his message of truth, compassion and sanity, I think the Dem party is in for a rude awakening very soon. Either with a Bernie win in 2016 which will make their little heads spin in circles, or with an HRC presidency in 2016 which will mean more wars, more poverty, more broken promises and hell to pay in 2020.

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Letter from Birmingham Jail (ext)

By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/davidhenson/2016/01/a-letter-from-birmingha...

It was also MLK, who said: "We have socialism for the rich, and rugged individualism for the poor."

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ppnortney's picture

I think he had it exactly right, and it's what we continue to see with the Dem party.

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The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

BernieOrBust's picture

That's HRC. She knows best. If you don't agree, the condescension is thick and hateful.

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Letter from Birmingham Jail (ext)

By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

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how the HRC supporters perceive no link between the politics of HRC, BC, Rahm, etc., and the demise of the democratic party. The repub party dominates state legislatures, governorships, and Congress. The dem party has steadily lost power over the years.

How can anyone support the very people who brought about this huge failure?

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dfarrah

Mike Honda down here in the South Bay is decent -- the gold standard is Barbara Lee up in Oakland. Still weighing my options over the open Senate seat.

And while I'm disappointed with many of Obama's actions (and inactions), he did managed to get the military to ditch DADT, and at least got the ball rolling on a national health plan -- it's not single-payer by a long shot but it at least puts a framework in place foevr adding Medicare as an option for people (and employers) to buy into which could eventually evolve into a Medicare for All system. As a former legislator and community organizer, Obama was probably used to making compromises, plus he was very aware of his status as the first black President and one false move could doom future black candidates for a generation or more.

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gulfgal98's picture

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Jazzenterprises's picture

These are important questions that remained unanswered... probably on purpose.

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Progressive to the bone.

PhilJD's picture

before any of this went down, not even reccing diaries or tipping comments. Unless things change a lot, I'm done. The place left me, I didn't leave it, lol. If someone wants to borrow any part of this to use there, with or without attribution, have at it.

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Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!

I'll still lurk there because there are folks I've met in Real Life that I care about. Probably will go back around the convention and try not to gloat if things go badly, or if Clinton's elected and immediately pisses everyone off.

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gulfgal98's picture

are still at both places. I am one of those because there are still some good people and good writers there whom I want to continue to support. However in recent months I have become far more selective in the time I spend there and with whom I interact.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

shaharazade's picture

or a least double post it. Your wasting your time trying to get any meaningful response other then a lot of bs poo throwing answer on dkos. at least here we can move beyond the barricades and 'firewalls' the party has set up and somehow duped people into believing are inevitable reality.

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I really hope everyone at least cross posts here.

Also, my comments keep double posting. I have no idea why.

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shaharazade's picture

Your most likely hitting the save button to much give it a while to post. If it doesn't take after the fist hit I use the refresh arrow on my browser firefox and it gives me a resend box which I click and then it posts. I still screw up and double post sometimes especially if I get impatient or space out.

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farlfoto's picture

Someone posted "ding dong the witch is dead" and I recc'd it. I simply recc'd it. For that, I was hr'd or something and prevented from commenting or recc'ing anything for 48 hrs. This pissed me off to such an extent that I almost handed in my KosCard then. Who needs that kind of nonsense.
I appreciate we want to elect more and better Democrats. That's what Sanders is. Clinton is not a better Democrat. She's more of the same shit we've seen for years.
I like Obama, and considering what he's been up against for the past 7 years, give him credit. But he gave away single payer. He rolled over so many times it isn't funny. And some of the idiots who tortured need to be in Jail, as well as the Wall St. bums that fucked us over.
If we elect Hillary, it will be just more of the same. We need to elect someone who will change the course of things. And that's not Hillary!

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Shahryar's picture

I'd like to see the crosstabs! I want to know how many Hillary supporters are former Republicans.

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pfiore8's picture

and for sure, they are Hillary supporters. then you have all of those not willing to believe what they're seeing and say "Obama is a good guy; he was just too nice" to those nasty old rethugs . . . and those very same people see Hillary as some kind of conquering feminist.

it would be amusing if we had time for it. but we don't.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Shahryar's picture

this site is bad for me. All of a sudden I have a desire to stay online for hours...and hours.

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pfiore8's picture

good to see you too!

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

k9disc's picture

I have been worried about the coagulation of the corporate center since about 2010. I've mentioned it a bunch of times in comments on dKos, but never really wrote anything serious about it.

I think this could be that move. Push the Right and Left out with Trump & Bernie -- teh crazy vs the naive -- and assimilate the corporate cons into into the Democratic Party. Sticking the social cons with the Republicans and replacing progressives with corporate cons in the Democratic Party.

The Social Cons and the Socialists can go screw themselves. What are they going to do vote for the other side?

Couldn't you just see a resurgent Blue Dog caucus across the South? And couldn't you see the centrist Republicans and Democrats getting together to "get things done" on States Rights and the "Social Security Crisis"?

Government is making a comeback and the Establishment ain't having any of it. I could totally see a congealing of the Center Left and Center Right into some kind of new political alignment.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

taken over by the repubs years ago with the DLC and DNC. IMO, nobody wants to face up to the takeover.

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dfarrah

darkmatter's picture

You speak the truth.

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The two-party system has forced the Democratic "Big Tent" to become so big that it's now harboring a good half-dozen parties within itself, and the crossover between them is rapidly dwindling. The Democratic platform has become mere window dressing as a massive influx of social and economic conservatives either unwelcome in the GOP or simply trying to flee a sinking ship now flood the party. I believe a split is all but inevitable.

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zee64's picture

the Democratic Party has become occupied territory. First infiltrated by the DLC, now the moderate Republicans seem to find it a good place to do business.

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"Hope is believing in the plausibility of the possible over the necessity of the probable." -- Mimonides. 12th century

thanatokephaloides's picture

It feels like the Democratic Party has become occupied territory.

We, the ordinary People, need it to become Occupied territory!

(note capitalization!)

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

GreyWolf's picture

"... Democratic "Big Tent" to become so big that it's now harboring a good half-dozen parties within itself ..."

I'm always flummoxed by the "Right path, wrong path" polls, since some are saying US is too left while some are saying US is too right, so the polls are meaningless.

The GOP continues right, the Dems follow rightward, while the populace grows more leftward. Independents are 44%, of which, I'm guessing, 10% are racist tea-baggers, and 30% are socialists. Bernie's "dem-socialists" could grow to the left of the Dems while the GOP withers off, leaving the center right party and a left party. A tectonic shift of the Overton window may be occurring.

There's a lot of people like me who feel the Dems are a corporatist, right-wing party, and also those who say there is no difference. You see tons of articles foretelling the death of the GOP. For each action there is in equal and opposite reaction: Death of GOP = birth of opposite/inverse

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a center-right Democratic Party and a batshit crazy right-wing Republican Party -- nothing for the folks on the left side of the spectrum.

Mr. Scribe and I were discussing whether Clinton was a neoliberal or a neocon -- we agreed that while Clinton herself may not be a neocon, her foreign policy definitely trended in that direction.

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shaharazade's picture

neocon in foreign endless warrior policy and neoliberal asin Goldman Sachs rules the world and outsourcing is a tide that will raise all the oligarchies boat's. At least Big dog felt our pain HRC not so much as she's a bad ass mad bomber who's church The Family, preaches world domination by the elite chosen powerful nasty people. Like her mentor Madelene Albright said 'It's worth it! or as she herself said we came we saw we killed. I find her terrifying she may be better then Trump but she is still scary as hell and quite mad.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Sad

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Folks, this is the person with the vision to seek a lifeboat when the USSR Kos refused to alter course away from the iceberg.

So what do you think LD? JtC did a great job. Many of the people we hoped to share the boat with are actually here.

Welcome LD. Hope you stick around. You can put your feet up with Doc, and I'll get you both a beer.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

triv33's picture

Do I need an introduction?

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

josb's picture

Tangerine Dream is one of my favorite bands.

SCNR. Carry on...

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For years we have kind of had 3 parties

There is the REPUBLICAN right wing... The DEMOCRATIC left wing... And a corporate wing that overlaps the center of both official parties and THEY control everything...

Trump has rallied the right wing disaffected and assorted fringe and it's freaking out the corporate Repubs because. As trump said he could shoot,someone in the middle of Times Square and his supporters would still support him.... Because they are rejecting the GOP more

The Corp Dems didnt believe THEY had a similar problem... So they didnt take Bernie seriously... The centrist dems woefully misjudged the situation. And now there ARE millions of Americans across this country who support Bernie for President. And his appeal to younger voters is YUGE and unshakable and the thing that is really freakin them out is just how much $$$$$$$ continues to be donated to Bernie's campaign
and it's Freakin them out... AND they are taking him and US very seriously now and They NEED to shut Bernie down NOW. Hence the Kos edict of the other day and the similar narrative at other such sites...

Our side is still trying to control public perception that Bernie has already lost whether or not that is the case.

"Perception is reality"

- Lee Atwater

F'em

Keep talking
Keep volunteering
KEEP DONATING

BERNIE 2016

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Orwell was an optimist

until the National Inquirer was the source to bust open the hypocrisy of John Edwards with pictures of his daughter.
Still remember it was Drudge who broke the Monica Lewinsky story too.
I sometimes read, them & Faux News = Know the Enemy.
And see what's gonna break in the MSM

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thanatokephaloides's picture

I appreciate we want to elect more and better Democrats. That's what Sanders is. Clinton is not a better Democrat.

By any reasonable standard (read: Democratic Party in any continuously-loyal State in 1975), neither Clinton is a Democrat at all. Turd Wayers are mis-labeled Republicans. In the case of the Clintons, Bill's "Democratic" orientation is due to his Dixiecrat alignment, a feature unique to the former Confederacy. Goldwater Girl Hillary didn't have to change her policy politics all that much to join up with him.

But now the time has come for a real Democrat -- as I defined it above -- in the White House and calling the shots for the whole Party. We really do need to elect folks who will actually change the course of things.

And you're right, farlfoto -- that's not Hillary!

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

snoopydawg's picture

And how they haven't been representing us since Clinton created the DLC.
During the health care debate, how many times were we asked to sign petitions, email or make phone calls to our representatives and ask them to stand up to the republicans?
During Obama's thinking about how many troops to send to Afghanistan did we do the same thing?
Or countless other bills being discussed only to keep seeing "Obama is playing 11 dimensional chess.
The democrats could have passed a better health care plan, but they kept letting the GOP water it down in hopes of getting them to vote for it knowing that they weren't going to. Then they gave it to Baucus knowing damned well that Liz Fowler from WellPoint was on his staff and writing it.
From not filibustering the FISA bill as he promised us he would, to signing a health care bil with out a public option in it after he promised he wouldn't, to trying to stay in Iraq after the SOFA when he promised to end it as soon as possible, to countless other broken promises.
The biggest one he broke that showed me he lied to us was his cabinet posts. He promised to close the revolving door between industry insiders and cabinet posts and that's all he put in his cabinet.
It's already been written that he ran a bait and switch on us.
Yet I've seen FPers write that he's the best president ever because he's ended two wars and hadn't started any new ones. I thought WTF. What do you call Libya or his use of the drones in 7 countries?

The site kept stating that they wanted the democrats to go back being the party for the middle class.
Now there is a candidate that is trying to do just that and people are going to vote for Hillary instead of Bernie.
I just don't get them.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

detroitmechworks's picture

it makes much more sense.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Pluto's Republic's picture

The playbook they follow is to advocate for a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and foreign policies and left-wing social policies.

This keeps the Dems and minorities bamboozled — while the nation's wealth is diverted to the finance sector and the MIC.

Gay wedding cake at home and murder and mayhem abroad.

Is the Democratic Party a breath mint or a candy mint?
The Dems win elections and Wall Street and War Street profit.
Even when Dems control all branches, Wall Street and War Street get all the profits and the people get austerity.

The Third Way was poised to continue the game in 2016 — and then Bernie came along.

Bernie isn't using the Third Way Handbook. He's channeling traditional Democratic values and reminding the American people what those are.

That's why the shit hit the fan.

Daily Kos, itself, is a Third Way think tank.

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darkmatter's picture

And, until 2013 for Hillary, no gay wedding cake at home either. Maybe a "civil union" cake.

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ppnortney's picture

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The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

Dark Knight's picture

is NO LONGER enough to keep me voting for their neoliberal economic warfare agenda. Period. I said it. I won't vote for her.

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Someone told Kos to follow the money, he thought that was a brilliant idea. Add his own narcissism, need for acclaim, delusion of power = DKos now.

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zee64's picture

I stopped going to Kos for many years - the constant Obama apologist tone when I was upset about so many things he was caving/flip-flopping on. I only came back because it seemed like a place where I could contribute to supporting Bernie, and pointing out why Clinton was not a good choice.

Let me add, that another of the items on the decree that drives me up a wall is the one about posting that you will not support Clinton if she is the nominee. On nearly every pro-Bernie post on any progressive site, someone will ask you if you will vote for her when Bernie loses. If a person is not allowed to answer that truthfully, then that question needs to be banned also.

There are many people who will write in Bernie, or vote 3rd party, rather than support Clinton. To not acknowledge that is to give a false impression of her electability.

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"Hope is believing in the plausibility of the possible over the necessity of the probable." -- Mimonides. 12th century

and there were people even trying to argue that saying that you weren't going to vote for Clinton IN THE PRIMARIES after March 15 was a bannable offense. That's how bad some of the lockstep is over there.

We technically do not have a nominee until the convention in Philadelphia. Even if Markos had said that we'd switch to General Election mode in June, after the final primary, I could live with that. But a lot can happen between now and then -- maybe this email thing doesn't turn out to be as much a "nothingburger" as the Clinton camp hopes, there could be a health crisis with her or a family member that could cause her to drop out. We need to make sure that we have a strong candidate who can step in if the worst happens.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

First: Welcome to the saneitarium, zee64!

On nearly every pro-Bernie post on any progressive site, someone will ask you if you will vote for her when Bernie loses.

That's if Bernie loses, please. The proverbial Fat Lady hasn't sung yet! Smile

And you're right -- it's an honest question, and honest answers ought to be allowed!

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Problem with certain answers not being "allowed."

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

shaharazade's picture

at best she's a DLC now called The Third Way Democrat in name only. She was a Republican until 1972 when she moved to Arkansas to help bill get ahead in politics.

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Big Al's picture

giving Clinton and Obama a pass on their war crimes. They truly believe no war crimes have been committed by them. They truly believe the propaganda about the wars in Syria and Libya, and the fact that the U.S. has been aiding and assisting ISIS while pretending to fight against it, just like they did, and Bush and his cabal did, with Al Qaeda. Most simply don't want to hear the truth. It's like that movie with Jack Nicholson, they simply can't handle the truth, not unless it's about the other side.

The problem is Clinton is truly a war criminal. It sounds harsh to those who don't understand what has happened in Syria and Libya, or are convinced it has not been the U.S. government that has led these illegal acts of aggression against sovereign nations, but it's absolutely true.

So what the little CIA republidem is actually saying is the real truth is not welcome at Daily Kos. They're willing to compromise their principles and ethics for the sake of political gain. That's pretty bad, to ignore the murder of hundreds of thousands and the displacement of millions for political gain is not just pretty bad, it is despicable.

There is plenty of evidence of Clinton and Obama's crimes, just as there is plenty of evidence for Bush and Cheney's crimes, and Clinton and Albright's before them.

Hillary Clinton, and don't forget Obama, is a war criminal, it's a fact and that's what we're dealing with, the possibility of electing a war criminal to the highest office in the land. This comes after reelecting Obama who had established his war criminal credentials well before the 2012 election, and Bush who also has well before his reelection in 2008. This is slavery, this is native American genocide, this is imperialist murder and mayhem happening right before our eyes, in our names, and we seem powerless to stop it.

Daily Kos is a part and parcel of the primary problems we face, it's more than an enabler, it is a willing partner in U.S. imperialism.

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Shahryar's picture

they believe he "has ended two wars".

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detroitmechworks's picture

Nothing pisses me off more than the idea that assassinating enemies is just kosher because it "Isn't a war!"

War is damned horrible business. Anybody who's ever fought in one knows it. The chicken hawks in politics will never have to fight in them, and so see it as a tool. One that conveniently can be used without it "Actually Counting."

If you ever need me in a white hot rage, this is the topic.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCekeoSTwg]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

snoopydawg's picture

Wars are what countries do when they are threatened. The U.S. hasn't fought a war on those terms for a long time.
These are illegal invasions and regime changes that only profit the corporations that want those country's resources. Or to profit the defense contractors, the banks and anyone who profits from them.
And these go against the Nuremberg principle. It's a war crime as you stated and I can't think of one president that hasn't invaded a country because it threatened the U.S.
Smedley Butler told us that back in the 30's when he said he had been muscle for hire for 33 years. He too spoke about the huge transfer of wealth because of the people who got rich of of them.

image.jpg

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

detroitmechworks's picture

Which is why they disgust me even more than a war. Of course, I'm a huge proponent of reform of the military, as I've posted here, and this truth just feeds my belief that the need is dire.

Of course, I'm an idealist, and I freely admit it.

Oh, I'm looking forward to this RANT tomorrow morning. Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

zee64's picture

The opening is precious - but the actual song starts 3+ minutes in.
The Green Fields of France/No Man's Land by Eric Bogle.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqVGshDc-CM]

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"Hope is believing in the plausibility of the possible over the necessity of the probable." -- Mimonides. 12th century

pfiore8's picture

... no different than what happened in WWII.

the very BIGGEST impact social media can have (FB and all the quick hit sites even more than blogging) is exposing information. of all kinds. but most people are decent. i still believe that. keep posting. keep asking people to LOOK. at some point, they will. Bernie candidacy is proof of it.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

shaharazade's picture

People are okay in my book.Globally they are waking up. It's a hard row to defeat fear and indoctrination but Bernie's movement is proof that many of us are not buying there shit. When they start abusing the dissenter's you know we're making roads into the fake status quo of fear and loathing.

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pfiore8's picture

hi shaharazade! yup, waking up. also good to wake up and see you.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Haven't seen your word in forever. Hope you are doing well.

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Could that be Al Giordano?

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Big Al's picture

just another refugee making his way in the world of blogs and revolutionary reckoning.

In the end, I'm "only pawn in game of life".

[video:https://youtu.be/SKRma7PDW10]

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Big Al's picture

Good to see ya and hope you're well also. I've been hanging out here and a couple other places since I called it quits over there.
Glad you're here though, and all these other good people.

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Bush did, and the dem suckers ate it up.

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

This is why Hillary is more dangerous than Trump.

So glad to hear someone else identify the problem.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Gerrit's picture

Woot! Well said. FST Smile

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

hecate's picture

it is over.

We have now, moved on.

Into what is fun. And scary. And, let it be, Real.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z29omyBeP4]

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thanatokephaloides's picture

The appropriate Dead tune for dkos these days and among us is actually this one:

[video:https://youtu.be/ksw1keFJpBI width:560 height:315]

This is the last time I wanna say so long
This song is my last song for you
There's just nothing here to hold on to
Baby, nothing to hold on to

source

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

PastorAgnostic's picture

And what a poignant, well writ blog.

You managed to hit all the highs and the lows. (Heh, my spill chicken tried to spell that kos.)
Agnostic

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stevej's picture

there was nothing accidental in that diatribe - he is cleaning house. The question is why is he cleaning house?

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Unabashed Liberal's picture

of 'enthusiasm' for FSC, from my reading of his remarks on the radio.

(I'm referring to when I've heard him interviewed as a regularly scheduled guest on the Mark Thompson radio program, on XM Radio.)

Due to the nastiness in discourse, I quit posting over there a while back. And, I don't know for sure, but it sounds like he's trying to take back control of the situation, in order to make DKosa total 'echo chamber' in the months leading up to the General Election.

Like most folks, I'm rather surprised that he was willing to 'pull the plug' so early in the game.

But, hey--great to see Everyone join us!

Clapping

Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress


"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive."
----Gilda Radner, Comedienne

Thumbnail of 'Lily' for Signature Line.png

National Mill Dog Rescue

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Shahryar's picture

is to get rid of 50% of the Bernie supporters...and those who think Bernie might not be left enough.

Here's some math...we know they like "the math".

The site is currently split about 60% Bernie, 40% Hillary. If 1/2 of the Bernie supporters leave/get banned then Hillary would be ahead 57% to 43% which is closer to what Markos thinks is the proper balance. (He wants to freep his own site...hilarious). But it would mean losing 30% of the current users. That's kind of stupid.

That's the thing...I was looking at that hideous photoshop of Markos' face on DWS and thinking, sad as it is and strange as it might sound, Markos is dumber than DWS. Markos is good at some things, like hiring talented website people and conning people into writing for free so he can make money, but he's one dumb $^&%^* when it comes to analysis, strategy or understanding issues.

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BrutallyHonest's picture

I believe that Kos is doing this to score a deal for a position in the Hillary White House.
Or his VOX buyout deal included stipulation that he made Dailykos Hillary country.

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mimi's picture

... don't do those jokes... I am getting irregular heartbeat. If that should be so, I think he should start learning to scratch the word "fuck" out of his written memos.

What is really so great about Markos? I can't see anything extraordinary in his writing or his political opinions, data crunching, I even don't think that he likes doing that.

I don't understand the world anymore.

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detroitmechworks's picture

He's as delusional as the guy who fetches the bottled water at a conference thinking that he has a shot at working for the CEO.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

BrutallyHonest's picture

There is no way someone didn't reach out and offer him something if he pushed hard for Hillary. His behavior is like a dog destroying the backyard while digging for a bone.

That something can be more money, a position, whatever it is he has been offered something. I will bet anything on Kos having a cushy position if Hillary wins.

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but because your imagery is perfect. I had a dog do that to the backyard once. Not a pretty sight.

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Twain Disciple

To trust anything "promised" by someone in the Clinton campaign. He has no particular skill, talent. He was in the right place at the right time, taking good advantage of the audience he could attract. Like the early days of HuffPo. Only one of Clinton's bff's have to nix what ever was/is offered - and Kos can join the hundreds of other wannabes.

Really angry he'd try to hurt Bernie with that bullshit about "white racists" being supporters. That's gotta be shot down on FB. (Say's she who is not & will never be on FB) - time to make him look like the jerk he's become.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

ever since Bernie recovered from his early fumble with #BLM and Hillary doubled down on her fumbles. Pure, classic, Rovian Swiftboating. First make a public hooraw about how "badly" Bernie handled the interruption(s), then send out the surrogates to insinuate that his civil rights record was a nothingburger or even a lie, then - when he starts to look really dangerous, i.e. New Hampshire and Nevada - send out more surrogates to smear and lie about the "horrible racists" he "has" for "supporters". Then double and triple down with a vicious, bogus, ludicrously easily disprovable libel in Crime Magazine that tacks the blame on Bernie himself. (Crime had to retract, but of course by then everyone had seen the lie.)

IMHO it was the vicious lies that crushed him in South Carolina (and probably Louisiana), as much as or more than slick politicking by the Clinton Machine.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

k9disc's picture

This place here is chock full of most of the talent and draw for the Daily Kos.

dKos is not a corporate media source, respectable, Establishment approved, and corporate filtered -- well it is now, but it wasn't.

He and many on the FP are constantly courting corporate media "respectability". They either think that the corporate media is going to honestly cover politics and deliver truth and fair coverage -- Heh... Good one, Markos -- or they think that their personal bread is best buttered by serving corporate interests. Either way, dKos is going to suffer this last purge.

Nobody is going to come there to get a Republican Fail Blog and say nice things about Hillary. People came for the smart counter-culture political take of about 25 diarists who are either gone or on their way out.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Shahryar's picture

what a sponger!

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detroitmechworks's picture

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74YLwinLT7M]

Sorry couldn't resist. But I for one will never write another article for him, and I hit the rec list about once every five diaries...

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

More expensive than a Steinway, of course.

Kos's gall in bragging about his wealth, given that it derived from free content (both on DK and SBN), always amazed me.

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shaharazade's picture

why this site will grow and be relevant. Dkos is a dead end and he is hastening it's decent into irrelevance and ridicule. Of course he has his millions from selling off his 'assets' to console himself with. He's left with nothing but 'fucking morons' to prop up his sick view of partisan politics as practiced by the obvious crooks and charlatans who run and own the Democratic party. Good luck kos and Debbie your asses are going to get a well deserved kicking if you antidemocratic creeps prevail.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

f**king hilarious!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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