Would you Kill for Single Payer?
Bernie Sanders, Nina Turner, the Justice Democrats and the People's Summit democratic party cadre, the so called "progressive insurgency" of the democratic party, have made it clear that U.S. imperialism and the accompanying wars, regime changes, country balkanizations, and millions of deaths and brutal evictions are not high on their list of "issues". Nina Turner explained on the Real News Network that it just doesn't play in Peoria, i.e., it's not the way to enlist more suckers to the oligarchy's "left" political War party. People just don't give a shit about that.
It's a trade-off. Give the ruling class their imperialism and wars in exchange for free health care. "Winning" requires promises of a chicken in every pot, a car in every driveway, and free health care for all. There's got to be something in it for the serfs other than just saving a few (hundred thousand) innocent children in countries that have been killing each other since time fucking began. Isn't that right? They would just kill each other if "we" didn't do it. Maybe after the democrats win, maybe next year or the year after, war can be an issue. But not now.
We're as close to World War That's All Folks since "I don't know when, do you know what I mean?" And the "progressive insurgency", the far left man, the radicals of the democratic party would rather they put on their fake antiwar pants later so they can focus on regaining a democratic party majority in Congress and go after the Holy Grail of democratic party carrots on a stick, Medicare for All.
Ah hell, I'm probably being too harsh, it's just war. It doesn't matter what the democratic party progressive insurgency (DPPI) does, the wars will go on. They can't stop them so why should they bother with that. Let the defense/intelligence/national security complex take their 65% of the discretionary budget. Let the Navy rebuild their armada to 350 ships. Let the government spend trillions on war. Let the government spy on every fucking thing we do. There's plenty left over for Single Payer. This is Amerika, land of the billionaires, the super yachts with mini-submarines, and mansions that would make King Ludwig blush. Plenty of money to go around.
And besides, the republicans are worse. They would kill to not have Single Payer.
Comments
What the fuck good is
a long, healthy life in a shitty world?
Looks like we're going to find out very soon. If not death by self annihilation, death by nature looks very promising.
The difference being, one will happen rather quickly while the other will make Mad Max look like a child themed fairytale.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Plenty dying right now
Some places have already been turned into Mad Max land.
It's a totally insane mentality but it's like no one can stop long enough to think about it. It's become exactly as Orwell described.
Sanders ? Dems? Turner? Heh.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Nina Turner explained on the
That is correct. When it comes to war, America truly is like an infant.
Object permanence is an ability that you gain that allows you to know that when an object is no longer in your sight, you still know that it exists. Infants will later gain this ability, but they are not born with it. It is why Peek-a-boo is a fun game with infants.
Americans lack what I'll call War permanence. If we don't see or hear it, we think it doesn't exist anymore. Even when a corporate news station talks about said war, the moment the news station goes to commercial, POOF, gone, war no longer exists.
The only time Americans seem to have War permanence is when it is seen, heard, or felt here on American soil (and by proxy European soil). If ISIS kills 4 people somehow in an attack here, well oh boy here is a war and the scary guys are after us. They want the government to deal with them and once the media tells them that the government will, POOF, War permanence gone.
Even when you can break through and either tell or show folks that war is happening and has been going on for quite a long time, the reactions you get is quite telling:
1)Huh, didn't know, don't care.
2)America is always right, so there is a solid reason.
3)We're fighting bad guys, do you support the bad guys?
Nina is right, regarding that at least. Stopping war just isn't that high on the list, even though it should be the number 1 item since so many other things also stem from it. Not only would you stop the endless slaughter, torture, rape, and theft of various people, but you would divert away from the MIC and their political power, you would significantly tackle the issue of climate change by not having all this waste.
@Strife Delivery That's not my experience.
That's not my experience. In my experience, Americans have been sick of war for some years now, but believe they have no power to affect whether the US military goes to war or not. We parse that into "they don't care, those self-centered infants" but actually it's just that they believe they can do nothing about it, mainly because nothing has worked. I'll go farther; not only has nothing worked, nothing has even slowed down the military machine. The people have no effect upon it whatsoever. Neither, it seems do politicians, necessarily.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal My statement about
My statement about infants was more about following the line regarding object permanence and my creation of war permanence.
But, overall, perhaps it is just different folks that we see. I mean, often from what I've seen, people think Afghanistan is over. Some think Obama ended Iraq.
You tell these folks about forces existing in Africa, and they say "Oh really, had no idea." or "Huh".
Perhaps a lot of folks have moved over to learned helplessness, but I don't know. Perhaps I'm just too cynical and think that folks, well, simply just don't care.
There are elements of denial, ignorance, and helpless surrender.
I like the object permanence reference. It feels right in this case. The American experience of war's impact is defined by a nearly complete isolation from the rest of the world. Our geography of the past 275 years is completely alien to the geography where we socially and intellectually evolved during the preceding hundred thousand years. In the Eastern Hemisphere, neighbors abound; people feel more connected to the world. A Russian can drive his car to Syria in one day. The French share borders with eight different foreign nations speaking different languages. You can hop a train from downtown Madrid, Spain to Beijing, China — via Moscow. This type of geography makes delusions like exceptionalism and xenophobia far less likely to manifest. People feel more "local" to the world, their interactions are more concrete. When it comes to sharing borders with foreign neighbors, China tops the chart with sixteen, and Russia is right behind with fourteen.
True that. When you tell them that Military Special Forces entered 134 nations last year on secret missions, people can rarely parse the information at all.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
TV Nation doesn't help either.
Short attention spans, being bombarded with "news" 24/7, with multiple "stories" going on at all times, relying on imagery instead of verbiage to get the daily feed and once that image is gone, POOF, on to a new one.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
It is stunning incompetence
I agree with this.
And the problem is not (as Democrats claim) that nobody cares about it. It is that a competent and strong counter argument has never been made by the Democrats against the U.S. War Crimes.
The Democrats cower in fear that if they say anything critical of these corrupt Wars, and the many Lies around the Global Warfare & "Regime Change" policies -- that they will then be thought of as 'weak'.
---
The lack of integrity and competence by the Democrats is stunning.
Here's an example of how you can confront the issue:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX7grm4CVJE]
And if it can play in Kentucky (Rand Paul's home state), then it can play in peoria or anywhere else you like too.
Wasn't it 2006
when Pelosi made it loud and clear that the incoming Democratic majority had no interest in holding the Bush administration accountable for anything? This more than anything else made it obvious to me that the Democrats have no interest in being against war and are quite fine with all that has transpired.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
play in Peoria
Except maybe my home town.
Colorado Springs, Colorado.
We actually have people around here saying "if you support the troops, you support all wars!" Nihil stercum facio tibi!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
He's one of very few Republicans
that I actually respect.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
We've reached the point where ....
Comedians are the place left to turn to for the real news...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43IDnRx_OFw]
is that good or bad?
I wonder if we are made like it for a purpose. Even if we KNOW war exists, we don't care for it as long as it doesn't hit us physically and immediately. Isn't that the same like in the animal kingdom? They start panicking about a danger only if the danger hits them directly? When the danger is out of their sight, they continue grazing and munching as if there is nothing going on a couple of hundred yards aside from them. Is that an inate mechanism to protect us from panicking all the time and going nuts?
If we watch and listen to the most gruesome cruelties of war online continuously and would react to it as if it were happening in our houses and front yards, we would go mentally nuts. But somehow something is there that prevents us from going nuts. So, is that now innate or learned?
You might say, yeah, we are not animals, we have a conscience and intelligence, we should do better. I conclude for myself that we are more animals than humans. What animals also do, if they feel they are attacked immediately, they attack back in revenge, til the immediate physical danger to them has been chased away or killed and eliminated.
Not only the Americans, but everybody, who can afford to "forget" about the wars, because they are not physically endangered immediately, won't care. When the attacked, who suffer under the remote controlled destruction that the military is imposing on them, have the possibility for revenge attacks, it's just a matter of how, when and where they will do so. So far their only revenge defense are suicide terror attacks nilly willy spread out over the globe. And if you haven't been by chance at the wrong place at the wrong time, you won't care too much despite all the demonstrations of compassion by those who have witnessed the attacks but were not hit directly.
oh, I conclude nothing, I am just totally confused.
https://www.euronews.com/live
and if the destructions comes through nuclear radiation
the animals don't know how to escape or fight back, because they can't hear, see, sense, feel the danger. Mass extinctions of animal kingdom including those animals that caused the nuclear radiation to happen.
So, how much intelligence has the the human animal brain to stop this from happening? How far would those, who believe the powers to be have to be stopped to cause "wars" that release nuclear radiation, go? Demonstrations on the streets? Has it helped in the past? Very little, very sporadically and not enough. I guess we will graze and munch like the "dumb cows" and wait what will happen.
Animal farm, what a wonderful world.
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In the nuclear age we can no longer war and survive.
This has been apparent to many since the 1980's, but as nobel winner Helen Caldicott said back then people are overcome with 'psychic numbing.' They just can't deal with the reality any more. And since the 80's the whole 'nuclear war' question has been hidden from public debate, but now more than ever the risk is great.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
@Strife Delivery well, that, and the war
well, that, and the war-profiteers get more largess to spend as dark money on steering elections their way. Some of that cash goes into advertising, and some of it is used more nefariously, it is becoming increasingly clear...
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
I would die for Single Payer ...
that will work for sure, cause to die we have anyway. /ducking
https://www.euronews.com/live
That's even assuming they really would give us Single Payer.
I agree with everything you said. Endless war is not anything any decent person would accept in exchange for Single Payer.
But at one level, why is this even the question? We all know they're not going to give it to us. How fucking stupid are we?
Hillary said single payer would never come to pass.
Bernie voted for Hillary, supported Hillary, campaigned for Hillary.
He supported Chuck Schumer as the "best man for the job" as minority leader in the Senate.
He took a job from Chuck Schumer as his recruitment man.
What is Schumer's position on single payer?
Apparently as of today he doesn't have one:
https://twitter.com/jstein_vox/status/846746096638607361
Bernie wanted Keith Ellison, who is no great shakes, most of all because he wants a no-fly zone in Syria, which is fucking crazy. But Bernie wanted him as the "progressive" option. Yet when Obama put his thumb on the scale, Bernie smiled, shook hands with Tom Perez, and toured the country with him.
I don't care how happy it made us to see people boo Tom Perez and cheer Bernie. Bernie was touring with him. Bernie was lending his credibility, not just to Tom Perez or the DNC, but to the process which put Tom Perez, rather than Bernie's preferred candidate, into the DNC chairmanship. In other words, Bernie was lending his credibility to one more corrupt preferential instance of the establishment protecting itself. Not that Ellison would really threaten the establishment, but the establishment has a real Princess and the Pea thing going here. They can't stand even a hint of disagreement or criticism.
So the guy who got shoehorned in because some well-connected donor somewhere, or perhaps a foreign nation, got the heebie jeebies about a Muslim being the nominal head of the Democratic Party--or maybe they didn't like Keith Ellison's leftie policies, although he doesn't seem like much of a leftie to me--got Bernie's full support. He stood next to him on every stage in flyover country he could get the guy to travel to. Once again, the Democratic party acted like the corrupt little shit that it is, and Bernie shrugged and said "What can ya do?"
Apparently what you can do is talk up how horrible Russia defrauded Hillary Clinton of her rightful place on the throne, I mean in the White House, even though there's no evidence that Russia did anything whatsoever, and even though that talking point and the establishment's obsession with it arguably gets us closer to a shooting war with another superpower with a large nuclear arsenal than anything in my lifetime.
See, I did bring it back to war. Because, believe it or not, the endless war and the possibility of it turning nuclear and thus becoming a war which ends by killing most of the life on the planet, is on my mind daily. I care a lot about ending war.
But the point is we're being implicitly--or maybe explicitly--offered a deal which is fake to begin with. It's like Esau being offered a bowl of beans for his birthright, except what he's given, once he hands his birthright over, is a speech about a bowl of beans.
This is ridiculous. How can you believe in a deal (implicitly) offered by someone who never does anything to stop the establishment from continuing its incredibly corrupt dealings, who indeed, shows the establishment at every turn that its corrupt dealings are fine with him?
In fact, Nina Turner and Bernie Sanders have never been lower in my esteem than now--and I understand, at least a little, the kind of pressures that have likely been brought to bear on them. I appreciate that nobody wants to risk getting the Clinton/Bush machine, and its horrible backers, really pissed. But this is truly ridiculous. You can't support the people who don't support single payer while pushing a single-payer bill, and hoping that they will appreciate your meek support and loyalty so much that they will give you single payer in trade. These people think they are OWED your submission because that's just the way the world works. The same way they think millions of people should die for profits because that's just the way the world works.
That's why, although I love some Hillary supporters in my personal life, I will never ally with them politically. To support her is to support the abysmal corruption that makes every policy debate a joke, a Lucy van Pelt moment where the laughter is inspired by how pathetic the poor slob is who thinks they might get a different result this time. Medicare for All? Like hell. If they do give us a bill like that, it's going to be something which contains at least one poison pill (a la the Affordable Care Act) if it even gives us Medicare for All at all, rather than simply giving the bill a nice name and filling it with toxic waste, as in the Healthy Forests Initiative and the Clear Skies Act, and the Patriot Act.
Yes, these people are taking an unconscionable attitude toward war. Their unconscionable attitude toward war arises from their unconscionable attitude toward power. And because they have a crap attitude toward power, everything they do is likely to, at the very least, have a gotcha somewhere, something that bites you in the ass. At worst, what they do will be a pile of lies.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Great rant, but only FTR and FWIW, Esau did get the
lentil stew, for which Esau had bargained with his brother, plus a side of bread, maybe a beverage (and no speech).
From Genesis 25 (KJV)
See also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottage; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mess_of_pottage
@HenryAWallace Oh, yes, I know. What I
Oh, yes, I know. What I was saying is, we aren't even being offered Jacob's bargain. The bargain is a goddamned lie.
Barack Obama is a great example of this.
"The climate speech was last summer."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
my brother Esau
[video:https://youtu.be/uEtOALW_VyI]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Simply put.
The whole comment expresses my frustration well but this:
really is the crux of the biscuit. I keep hearing Bernie knows what he's doing, but all I see is him giving his credibility and endorsement (sometimes explicitly, sometimes by association) to people who are working against his causes and receiving nothing in return.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
@Dr. John Carpenter "I keep hearing Bernie
"I keep hearing Bernie knows what he's doing"
11th dimensional chess maybe? I understand it is a very effective tactic.
Just heard Alan Grayson on a KPFK podcast going “Russia, Russia”
How about “Israel, Israel” in our elections and government appointments, Mr. Grayson?
I rooted for Grayson for years, but listening to that interview, at that moment I was glad he’s out.
Nope
No I would not Kill for Single Payer. Especially not in the name of the fake bunch of bullshitters currently clinging to power, nor the ones trying to replace them. They are the same same in my view. They can go to hell.
For Billionaires this time around the wheel why not
If at first you don't succeed, try try again
peace
Get single payer done in this country FIRST. I mean, REAL
single payer. You improve and strengthen Medicare, and then make it for ALL. Improvements? It picks up 100% of the hospital bill, not just 80. Meds? Break the back of the bribing PHARMA corporations by bidding a la the VA. You get that done first as the American people are behind you, and then take on Goliath. You will have a weapon via this enormous healthcare victory to tackle the monstrous MICorporateC. Back the issues Nina and Bernie represent. Quit attacking them as sell outs.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
@orlbucfan When you walk like a sell
When you walk like a sell out and talk like a sell out, blah blah blah...
That is not an attack on Bernie or Turner. That is a description.
When we declare war, all programs will be requisitioned for the war effort.
Rationing of food and nylons!
Gas coupons!
Oh yeah, good times!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Define 'sell out'. I worked Sanders' campaign cos of the
issues.
*Anti-NAFTA, TPP, CRAPPA and the so-called free trade agreements.
*Reinstate Glass-Steagall.
*Address climate change as a security threat. Droughts in the Middle East worsening an already bad scene. MICraporateC agrees.
*Bring back progressive taxation.
*Tighten difference between church and state. Restore our public schools.
*Fix infra-structure.
*Let women/families decide on children.
*Call out bribes and make them a campaign issue.
What have I missed?
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Plus: universal healthcare/Medicare for All.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
@orlbucfan See CSTM's take
See CSTM's take down in her comment above.
I agree with all of those issues, and supported Bernie.
The one thing that will stop all of these issues from being positively resolved is a war.
We are truly on the brink of war.
Right now.
I will support any and all anti-war politicians.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
And do you see Bernie really pushing for
those things now? I don't. We can wish it all we want, but we've got to start basing our choices on what they DO, not what they keep on saying over and over and over again. He can talk this shit until we're all dead and it doesn't get us anywhere. He thinks he can get these people to somehow change their minds, to decide that hey, you know what, we really need to stop taking all this money from our owners. That IS NOT going to happen. The only way we get anything is by demanding it, and supporting these people in their incremental world is not going to get us there. How long have we been playing that game?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
you have missed that it is the easiest thing
to call someone a sell-out and therefore lots of people do it. It doesn't mean much other than the digital footprint of a comment in a blog. Be calm. Don't take it personally. It's not worth it. There is a little saying in German for children:
"Wer es sagt, ist es selber". Meaning round about "those who say that of others, are it themselves".
Big Al is a passionate ranting revolutionary online. I like his rants. He brings it to the point. But that point is unfortunately just a digit in a vast sea of digital comments. They may make a difference, one digit at a time, and they may not. It's always good to give it a try if one can't find better options.
Peace, you guys.
https://www.euronews.com/live
@mimi In fact, mimi, it
In fact, mimi, it absolutely breaks my heart to call Bernie a sell out.
It is not easy to do.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I couldn't do it either - and never would /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
@mimi Stand by him.
Stand by him. He has some great ideas.
I cannot excuse his current support for war.
NO MORE WAR.
Did your Dad go to war and get shot and lose an intestine, a kidney, part of his stomach, part of his spleen, part of his liver, a lung, an eye, a testicle, and get discharged summarily?
Did you grow up thinking all men had 9 navels?
(machine gun tore into Dad's torso in a pattern, 8 shots, 2 of them blowing all the way through his body), but I did.
In my Dad's memory, and since he supported and paid for guys during the Viet Nam "police action" to get safe haven in Canada,
NO MORE WAR.
My Dad was a fucking warrior on a mission. When it became clear there was no mission, he became the supreme pacifist.
He was 91 when he died. A pacifist since 1945.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
@on the cusp And one more
And one more thing for those concerned about Bernie and Nina and "attacks" on them.
Did any of you spend leisurely Sunday afternoons with a pair of tweezers, picking shrapnel out of your dad's back? ( It floats up to the skin, sometimes making pulling with tweezers through the muscle and then the fucking skin, making it easy to remove.)
For decades? Like, 4 decades?
Get back to me about cruel blog attacks on Bernie if you have your tweezers stories handy.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
millions of people have similar memories
of their parents having suffered and being wounded emotionally and physically by wars. There are many wars and many memories and most of them from different wars and from different peoples, who are in conflict with each other because of those memories. These memories and especially the memories their children had are often quoted as a political view point to justify their own current mission, be it as a pacifist one or as a mission of a warrior for the next good cause.
If that's too easy an explanation, I apologize. Over the years of reading and watching I just am more aware that those feelings and memories are "used and or staged" from people of all walks of life, especially since we communicate online on the www anonymously and that it still almost never leads to a solution of a conflict between folks that quote and present their past memories and pains as their motivating base for political activism. I think it's a tragic realization, but one that I can not overlook. And it is a very difficult subject.
I am a helpless little person and use my instincts and guts and the little bit of "facts" I hope to get out of reading sources, to decide how much I let myself influence by the memories of past pains that each of our anchestors and parents suffered.
Just yesterday evening I followed a "talking head" panel on German TV about a documentary of Antisemitismus in Germany. Maischberger: Übernahme des Programms von Das Erste zu "Auserwählt und ausgegrenzt". I know that isn't helpful for you to quote, but it's just an example how my observation seems to be true. We will not get over it. We will just get tired of discussing it and that too is depressing us.
I decided long ago that Bernie Sanders is not a sell out. I would wish he could have a stronger and more critical position against violence and wars of terror against terror. I think he knows it wouldn't help either. He isn't weaker than any of us and also not stronger. He tries what he can.
I respect that.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Yea
I don't have to believe in 100% of a candidate's positions to support him or her. Bernie gets it 99% right. And had Bernie become president, he wouldn't be escalating all those stupid wars we find ourselves in. How many troops does D'ump want to pour back into Afghanistan, of all places? Would Bernie have kow-towed to the Saudi head-choppers the way D'ump did on his magical mystery tour?
I might have issues with Bernie in the Middle East--after all, his foreign policy doesn't differ too much from Hillary's--but we can reason with Bernie. Want a more anti-war focus in the People's Summit? Join and add your voice. They (unlike Mafia Don) will listen.
Loves me some Bernie 99% but where do you get
any hint of support from his record that this would be true? Sorry, but this is his weak point.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
He did vote against the Iraq war
And most recently, against the feel-good sanctions bill, because they slipped in a slap on Iran.
He would not be able to stop the wars
anymore than Trump has, and I'm pretty sure all of us out here on this site knew good and well that the idea of Trump doing anything to stop them was mostly a pipe dream. Politicians LIE, all of them, and POTUS, while being the "leader of the free world" is not the true power that runs this country or this world.
I too bought into Bernie. While I didn't volunteer I sent money starting somewhere in 2015. I HOPED he would be able to win, but I knew in my heart that would not be allowed to happen. And then we saw just that, proven to us, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
But he did vote for sanctions on Russia
before they added the sanctions on Iran in the same bill.
So he has bought into the Russian propaganda about Russia interfering with the election/ each time they release more information, they up the anti. Such as now they are now saying that Russia TRIED to alter votes in 39 states. No votes were changed, but people don't hear the truth.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
True, Bernie did vote for it before they added Iran
Putin is a mob boss just like D'ump, only orders of magnitude more competent. Putin's opponents have a strange way of ingesting polonium or dioxin, or taking a step off a ten story building. Best of luck to Alexei Navalny, as he finds himself in the world's most dangerous occupation: current Putin opponent.
Once upon a time, the Republicans made Russia into their bogeyman to drum up fear for the MIC. Now they cash their checks in rubles--at least everyone close to D'ump. The question remains: will the Republicans impeach him to allow Archangel Pence to usher in the Handmaid's Tale?
I still think secession is the way to go. The concept of a United States worked in the 20th century but not so much in the Chinese 21st century.
What have you missed?
Imperialism. War. Forever War. The most extensive and expensive military on Earth by nearly a full order of magnitude.
That's cash we could be spending on the domestic issues Sanders ran on. And I mean meaningful, real money, not that ready-print Weimar Republic MMT crap.
I will concede you that Sanders is likely picking his battles; he alone (or with what few genuine allies he can rely on) cannot win the War Against War in the Senate. But that doesn't change the fact that we really do need to go back to a non-interventionistic foreign policy and a military primarily maintained for the defense of this country here and not "over there".
Make the non-imperialist changes, and we'd have plenty of money to accomplish everything Sanders spoke of in his campaign, your own call for complete single payer healthcare rather than mere "Medicare For All", and on a budget of far less borrowing, too.
During Bernie's Presidential campaign, I answered the charges against him regarding foreign policy with "It's time we had a domestic policy driven Administration anyway!" I still maintain that. We're busily driving ourselves broke intervening in other countries while our own nation is burning to the ground from internal rot!
Were I in Bernie's current position, I'm not sure what I'd do, Blatantly demanding what the American People want -- non-interventionistic foreign policy and an end to the forever wars -- appears to be political suicide these days. You might be able to get elected, but you'll be completely neutralized once you take your seat.
And for that I have no answer. Not under our current system.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@orlbucfan Attacking them--or
Attacking them--or attacking the things they repeatedly do, which are going to lead nowhere?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
In this world...
...you don't have the luxury of being choosy. If you find one progressive issue that wins, pick it up and put it in your basket. Don't criticize it for not being the one you want. If you do, you'll likely go home hungry with an empty basket.
@Blueslide The "beggars can't be
The "beggars can't be choosers" talking point has worn thin, just as the "honey rather than vinegar" talking point has. We go home hungry regardless. Sometimes, they give you a speech about the bowl of beans they'd like you to have. Sometimes they give you a bowl of beans, with a poison pill hidden in the middle of it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal So do we wait for a
So do we wait for a complete meltdown and then fetch our pitchforks and torches ?
I've been involved and observed progressive organizations over the years. More often then not, they spin apart because individuals feel their issue is the most important and it's not being addressed they way they believe it should.
@Blueslide We build independent
We build independent infrastructure of our own. Difficult, but not impossible.
I can see some of what we might do, in the political space between electoral politics and revolution, but I haven't gone into detail, because I think concrete plans should be hashed out face-to-face. Manifestos/general principles can be hashed out on line; hashing out specifics works way better in real life. IRL meetings also provide for groups of people actually learning to work together, which is what concrete plans, rather than lists of principles, require.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
My answer is yes, because it's a victory
and we have to start somewhere.
EDIT: "though that's not my first, second, third or fourth choice,
once I believed that we as a country used to be better, we were
able to do much more than have to choose between A and B, that's
not possible in today's world."
Enjoy this read, although Bernie hasn't spoken out against war
he's not the decider nor can he single handedly stop it. Should
he speak out against it, hell ya, but I believe he's looking at
the big picture....BWTFDIK
https://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6zAyPRbels][video:https://www.youtube.c...
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
We need a real win
When people are worried about their own existence it's hard to get them interested in the dates of people a long way away, plus the foreign policy PTB are very adept at using smoke and mirrors to confuse the popular about what's going on. Putting politicians in power who support single payer is likely to get people more critical of our "foreign policy"; trying to run on an antiwar centimeter platform is unlikely to succeed: it was barely effective even during the height of the Vietnam war!
The point of this diary reminds me of the argument that we shouldn't bother trying to solve inequality until we have recital, gender, etc., justice.
I used to think we could have our cake
and eat it also, sadly that's need even close
to being the case.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
@ggersh I don't want to hijack
I don't want to hijack this convo any more than I already have. Suffice to say, I can't believe we are so desperate that we are accepting the idea that someone who supports the establishment is going to bring the profound changes we need in order to survive, much less prosper.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think Bernie outlined the scenario
that it was up to us to fight back, and Jesse here states that the
"public" needs to find alternatives, but yes the people are desperate,
who want's who want's all the shit being piled on us, both the choices
were evil, both the parties are evil and our government is compromised by
evil.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
@ggersh Well, yes, but that
Well, yes, but that was pre-June '16 Bernie.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
To me it looks like Bernie is
still playing the game. Yep at times he appears to be
pulling up the bootstraps for the D's and yet he stays on message
the message that resonates w/millenials.
End of day it's real hard to know exactly how/what he's thinking,
although I hate he mentions the Russians.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Sure, pick it up
and put it in your basket.
A basket that's been/being shredded as we speak by a rapacious, bloodthirsty, mob of psychopaths intent on nuclear war? THAT basket?
They will/are telling us 'we can't have nice things' because there's no money.
No Shit, Skippy! They done burned it all to hell and gone in the fucking WAR!!!
Never mind the Fact we have ILLEGALLY invaded (yet)Another country.
Never mind the Fact OUR munitions of war have poisoned great swaths of territory and will continue to do so FOREVER. DuckDuckGo depleted uranium/Iraqi children if you want to lose your lunch.
Never mind the Fact that we have/ARE killing literally, hundreds of thousands(millions?) STILL.
Never mind the Fact that these countries will Not recover in what's left of My lifetime, let alone my Kids lifetime.
Never mind the Fact- ah fuck it. You people KNOW, I KNOW and these Fuckers we call a 'government', our 'leaders' they ALL KNOW and just don't give a rat ass about it.
I guess if we did care. . . Ugly amercains indeed.
Stop These Fucking Wars
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
@Tall Bald and Ugly Wow, thanks, man, you
Wow, thanks, man, you did it for me. I was being restrained. +4!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Nope.
But then, there are very few things I would kill for again.
Elites dont care because the killing they do is done by guys like me. They think the hamburger that they turn into political sausage comes from a supermarket, not screaming, bloody cows...
Make the elites do their own fuck in killing and they'll sion lose their taste for it. Or not, but a least then we could charge them for murders they already commit by proxy.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Always appreciate your pov.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
I think we're being given a strawman
by the oligarchy. It's as if they're telling us: the choice is between killing other peoples' children with bombs, or killing our own children via rationed private health insurance. My choice is: stop killing children, period.
"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush
Excellent point.
That's exactly what we're being told - you want single payer here so American's don't die? Then we get our wars. And when the money runs out for the wars, we'll just have to come for your healthcare.
Incrementalism is what got us where we are today. We were willing to look the other way at Obama's wars because, why he's for hope and change and I'm just sure, sure, sure he's really trying to help ordinary people, but we simply can't stop the wars because terrorism. And closing that Gitmo? Well, again, that might put American lives at risk, so make your choice lefty, either Americans or Arabs? Are you with us, or against us?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I see the two options as mutually exclusive
The endless hegemonic wars are not simply how they enrich themselves, they are also a significant part of how they extract wealth from us. I don't think you can fix my economic concerns without addressing other issues also -- starting with donor control of the US government. At best, Bernie seemed like he could probably be influenced if we could put him in office.
I'm less sanguine about the various organized resistance groups like Justice Democrats. They make no bones about swilling at the corporate trough even as they decry purchased influence. The argument that money only corrupts the other guy isn't going to sell to me.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Is it Bernie, or is it the Democratic party,
or is it both?
Time will tell I suppose, til next election.
So in conclusion
We can't have universal healthcare because we are a warring imperialist murderous dog.