Mass Bannings of Bernie Supporters at TOP
Today, for the first time in a while I went to peruse TOP. While there I found my account had been banned, though for what is not clear. I then found the following public discussion at TOP's help desk that indicates that yesterday there were mass bannings of Bernie supporters.
Here is the screen shot of the help desk discussion dated June 15, 2017, if that link doesn't work:
There are a number of comments in that thread, many of which suggest participation at this site, caucus99percent is a reason for banning members. Another suggests that Bernie Sanders supporters may have been banned because the shooter of the GOP Congressional baseball team's practice once volunteered for Sanders. Those who have been banned include Bob Swern, Makhalli Overdrive and, of course yours truly.
I left a private message with the help desk requesting the reason I was banned. My last comment there was on May 9, 2017. Last diary published on April 24, 2017. I received no time outs or other warnings. Guess I was just swept up in the latest house cleaning for reasons about which I can only speculate. Certainly, it had nothing to do with any recent activity there.
Well, as the Spanish say (and Doris Day): Que sera, sera.
Comments
@Dr. John Carpenter I'm not sure that
I'm not sure that's the problem. Not in the current circumstances, where it's basically pravda pravda pravda all the time on the big 6 mainstream media. I don't really have a problem with people seeking out like-minded people on the internet. At least they're determining their own bubble instead of having it predetermined for them.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Don't you think it's terribly unfair...
Don't you think it's terribly unfair to frame a program of the complete banning of all alternate viewpoints as "censorship". They're just trying to keep the bad thoughts out.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
And all this time
I thought it stood for Turds on Parade.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
LOL (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
It means Daily Kos
The acronym TOP for daily kos is used only here on c99%, so it's entirely local and google won't help you. It stands for "the other place" -- because maybe if we don't say it's name ... ? ok, I dunno why.
There's no rule about acronyms here, but I personally wish people would stop using that "code" and either stop talking about Daily KOS, or -- if you are going to talk about it -- go ahead and name the place openly. Why not? Insider lingo isn't friendly to new folks, its exclusionary.
Voldemort
Although I was wondering if they'll change the name of Whole Foods now that Amazon has bought it. Maybe call it "Voldemart".
Pretty much
Sounds a lot like a certain other He-who-shall-not-be-named, indeed. Haha.
I had to look up Voldemort, by the way, although I knew vaguely that he's a Harry Potter character. I couldn't read those books, because I just couldn't get past the word muggles. I mean, seriously. That and some of her other word choices made it unreadable for me. I realize they are exceptionally popular books and movies, but I generally remain happily out of the loop.
@Bob In Portland ROTFLMAO!!!
ROTFLMAO!!!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Democratic Underground has been renamed S.V. for Site
Voldemort by the good folks at JackPineRadicals (JPR) for the same reasons DailyKos is now called DailyGross, TOP, OrangeState, GOS (Great Orange Satan) and probably many others.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
the other place
It hearkens back to an earlier time, when parents tried to avoid having their children utter the word "hell" in polite company. So the custom arose whereby one would make a reference to "heaven", and then "the other place".
I find it deliciously ironic that the same euphemisms are now being applied to Daily Kos which used to refer to the place of eternal torment.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
LOL - really? I had no idea
Wow I'm learning a lot in this discussion. Cool. I was raised in a non-religious household and my mom said hell all the time. Hells bells! She would say. I sure never heard it called the other place.
Fascinating. Daily kos isn't hell through. It's just a nasty old garbage pit. Phew. The stink.
I looked at my user page. Not banned, still five bars of mojo, and listed as a "frequent" commenter even though I haven't posted on there in well over a year. I think hell's software is broken.
hell and garbage pits
The link between the two was created by the Gospel writers themselves. Gehenna, the Valley of Hinnom, is adjacent to Jerusalem. In the asserted time of Jesus it was where Jerusalem's garbage was dumped and burned, thus making it a useful analogue to hell, as it serves today.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides There's a reason for
There's a reason for that...
she said, darkly amused...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I use it to me
"that"other place. I prefer that to the. Snobbier and much more condescending. The reason we didn't mention dailykos by name when we first started here was to deny it any public acknowledgement [publicity]. We certainly don't care what it thinks of c99 or its members, which is what pisses them off at us so thoroughly. We allow everyone freedom of speech, the ability to edit, and we have no gangs moderating the members. We are everything they wish they could be and might have been if Kos hadn't of sold out to Bubba and the Democrats.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Beautiful comment, dk!
It perfectly summarizes us.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@dkmich I would love to use
I would love to use part of this comment as my new sig.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And it used to be GOS
which stood for Great Orange Satan. But I think Trump stole that from them. I wonder if DKos is jealous of that too?
Slightly contrarian,
I want to say that I despise what that site became, I think its founder is CIA or part of one of its subsidiaries, and I gasp at the silliness of believing in an economy in which pensions and wealth are dependent upon defense stocks built on the slaughtering of children.
But I have to admit I came here out of a desire to be with like-minded people, to stop arguing with those I couldn't possibly convince. Especially after the election, I came here to hide. So I take the banning of argument as similar to my desire to be in a place where the issues can be discussed in a peaceful, researched and logical way. And I can understand their wanting that too. It seems at first glance like cowardice, but I think it represents that a real earthquake happened, politically. Things were shaken and relocated in a big way by the election. I think we're still sorting it out and that talking together in depth from our particular perspectives is probably more productive of understanding than revisiting our disagreements.
P.S.
This is not to say that the hard-headed differences, especially about Russia, don't interest me. I'm obsessed with this problem and perplexed by the total difference in perception. But reading arguments from people like myself on the other side is less productive for me than reading Clapper or Comey. That's what I feel I need to read and study and respond to, official pronouncements from the deepest criminals, and responses from Robert Parry and Seymour Hersh and You All. That takes me further toward understanding.
One big difference.
Free will. YOU got to choose. If you wanted to hold a daily prayer meeting for Trump, we might ask if you are feeling ok, but we wouldn't stop you - AND we would defend your right to do it.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
prayer meeting for Trump
Some of us would even defend that right on Daily Kos itself, just to stir up trouble!
/s
As a member of the theistic community here on c99, in fact, I don't think that's all that bad an idea! The Almighty has got to have a better shot at smashing Her way into that stone head and heart of his than we mere mortals do!
p.s. The notation /s is commonly used hereabouts to mean "end snark".
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I was about to say.
Certainly if people are making someone out to be a demon or possessed by demons, the old-school remedy is prayer and exorcism.
One of the great moments in Sixties counterculture was the New-Age equivalent of a public prayer meeting — a mass meditation with the aim of levitating the Pentagon.
Part of being a member of the real left
is that we defend your right to say what you truly believe.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I think your arguments have taken shape since you've been here.
To:
They've become finely honed and they effortlessly draw defining contrasts with fewer words. It's a tribute to logic and skill, and the power of an open mind given the space to evolve. It's impressive.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Thank you.
I truly appreciate your words here always.
earthquake
And Daily Kos (TOP) seems to find itself thoroughly mired in a sinkhole generated by that quake.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
OK,
yes, I have to agree. Very well said.
The only two Senators that voted against
the new round of sanctions on Russia and Iran were Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders. That illustrates that the moral and ideological bankruptcy affects both parties, and that new lines are being formed along the cleavage of party establishment vs. outsiders. Those two Senators are both immensely popular among their respective followings.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
@dervish And we just had an
And we just had an event where Rand Paul was shot at by a Bernie supporter. Well, he was first a Cruz supporter, but that fact is being effectively suppressed.
So we get Rand Paul, among a few others, shot at, and an attempt to discredit Bernie, all in one go.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I read Bernie voted yes on Russia sanctions, then changed to no
after they added on Iran into the same bill. So the Dems all went along and threw Obama's Iran deal on the chopping block in their frenzy over Russia. Figures. Opposition party, resistance, what a joke.
And I was disappointed in Bernie's statements about supporting the Russia sanctions. At least he drew the line at Iran, but his yes vote on the Russia sanctions and his statements about it were depressing.
No surprise.
I was kind of wondering about Bernie's vote and I'm sorry to say what you're saying isn't a surprise at all. Hell, it wasn't even that much of a disappointment because I'm starting to expect this from Sen. Sanders.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
@Linda Wood This is very, very
This is very, very important, Linda. I've been trying to come up with a way of saying it myself without success. Thank you for being brave enough to broach this subject.
IMO, the uber-emphasis on finding the people you disagree with and talking to them comes from the late 80s and 90s, and the DLC. It's exactly what the Clinton Democrats used to tell us (back in the days that they wanted the votes of independents); don't preach to the choir, go out and talk to the people who are different from you. They suggested that to the Democratic party and its rank and file when the Democrats were weak.
This is actually the stupidest thing you could do if you're weak. If you're weak, you need to first reassess whether your aims are sound. Do they promise a benefit worth the costs? If you conclude that yes, the aims are still sound, you need to pull together, as the Republicans did after Goldwater, and talk with others who agree with you about what is best to do next.
If you are strong, and have a strong organization that is accomplishing its goals, you might want to seek out those who are different from you, who disagree. In fact, that's the best time to do so. But even so, you shouldn't talk to those who disagree more than you talk to those who agree. Those who agree are your partners in the work and your beer buddies when you knock off. They are your community. You shouldn't be talking more to people who disagree with you than you do to your own community, for the simple reason that communities don't maintain themselves. They require an energy input. You can't focus solely on expansion. You have to maintain your own territory and community, even if it's just a territory of ideas.
When the Clintons and others like them gave the left the idea, in the late 80s when the left was weak, that the left should go out and talk to people who disagreed and make sure not to inhabit an echo chamber, they were giving advice that would disperse lefties. They were giving advice that would further weaken lefties, cloaked in a mask of tolerance of the other and appreciation of dissent. It's as if they put a candy coating of good values around a poison pill.
We have internalized this tactic and now treat it as received wisdom--because we believe in the values it was coated with.
The reason I tried to start Caucus on Daily Kos was that I realized that there's a place not just for the battle of ideas, but for those who share the same ideas to come up with plans for action. A great deal of potential activism was being lost, I thought, because we never could get beyond fighting with each other. Surely, if we're talking political discourse, there should come a point where like-minded people join together and make plans. I tried to institute a type of diary like that. People shrieked that it was limiting freedom of speech. I pointed out that they could, of course, publish their own diary about how they disagreed with a Caucuser, and exercise their free speech that way. Or get on an Open Thread if all they wanted to do was comment about how much they disagreed with a Caucuser.
All I was saying was that they could not disagree about the bedrock assumptions of the Caucus diary, which would be stated beneath the diary's body so everyone knew what they were, in that diary itself. They were free to disagree anywhere else. Just not in a Caucus diary. People who feared it would stifle discourse also arose. I pointed out that I suspected the Caucus diaries would be rather dry, and probably would be far less popular than the diaries in which opposing factions flamed the hell out of each other. People quietly discussing the best tactics for achieving a particular shared goal is nowhere near as compelling as the FLASH-BANG-BOOM of a cyber-pie-war.
Markos said no.
Hence the beginnings of my ruminations on this site. Then I found some others who had also been thinking...and here we are.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Couple of things: I really wish we could get some of the Eco
writers over here. I have approach probably three or four and Fish Out of Water. But they have a community and know how to post graphs and photos there, and are not likely to move away or even double post. Maybe now double posting is a way to be banned.
Second thing: I just copied out my own diaries into a personal folder with the entire page including comments. So all is good with diaries.
What I want to know is if anyone figured out a way to save comments. Some of the threads were priceless and I hate to lose them. But of course the comments are not grouped.
Suggestions???
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
You can always read the comments
just bookmark the ones you like.
Cross-posting is probably ill-advised now, I think a lot of the bans happened because of people's activities here, and we can expect more of that. What kind of a twisted website sanctions people for going to other websites?
Are they jealous?
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
instructed to do so
Especially since, don't forget, the local proprietor over there (OT) specifically instructed us to do so!
-- kos
But I know well of what you speak. My first Essay here, warning all of c99 that the Ides of March Decree was coming down and to get ready for it, was quoted verbatim on Daily Kos despite my express request at the beginning of the Essay that it not be crossposted there. A certain irony exists insofar as that lack of consent on my part is probably the main reason I haven't been banned yet.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I miss Fish out of water, too.
Robyn posts here and I assume is still posting at kos. I miss her nightly art from there, just not enough to give them traffic. So I'm assuming posting around wouldn't get the ban.
Ed. on account of my brain fart.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Banned
I was banned just before the election, I never looked back.
TOS is a CIA run website to brainwash the left
Markos was CIA when he started up DKos. He was a Republican before that.
DKos is an Establishment Dem website, meant to protect the interests of the 1% from it's inception. Its purpose is to divert and/or subvert any populist uprising from the left. So of course, Bernie Supporters are public enemy number one at that website and always have been. They wish to retain the title of the leading left wing website, but they can't because arguing with Bernie supporters only drives their readers away. So the only solution is to ban them completely and then put up a front of Party Unity.
It's all a mind fuck to persuade Joe Sixpack that Bernie bad, Establishment Dems good.
Oh, and HATE TRUMP! Because let's face it: Dems can't get Joe to vote lesser of two evils if every day he sees a choice that's not evil at all.
This is just an extension of the media ban on all things Bernie onto the internet front.
He does or did belong to a think tank (can't remember the
name) but it is dedicated to electing "centrist Democrats".
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
Linda Wood mentioned that above:
It's essentially the same as being a fellow at the DLC.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Markos has always stated openly
that the Daily Kos website belongs to him, and that its purpose is to elect more and better Democrats... specifically and only that. In other words it is Private Property, and has been posted as such. Participants have enjoyed thinking of themselves "members" but that's a bit of a misnomer. What they've actually been all along, is guests, who may be expelled at any moment, for any reason, at the owner's discretion.
Markos makes no bones about his position... why should anyone else? If he wants to act like a paternalistic, out-of-touch bully, reserving his property for the sole use of petit-bourgeois sycophants, nobody can stop him from doing it. All you can do is say "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish".
native
Donuts.
Thanks for all the donuts.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Heh.
I remember getting buried in them one time.
native
It happens,
now more than ever, in fact.
It doesn't matter, better platforms will fill the gaps that purges create, as we can see here.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
@dervish
And don't forget the pie... not a heart-healthy place, lol.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
They banned Bob.
Jesus H. Christ riding on a peacock.
I'm stunned. I didn't think they'd ever ban Bob.
One of the things that strikes me as really sad about this is how that person is defending him/herself "You really should keep me around because--I've NEVER considered voting third party, and I'm NOT active at C99 or any Bernie Sanders Reddits and I've NEVER...etc. I'm a loyal Democrat I really AM!"
Any organization that requires that kind of pleading is....well. Let's just say a bad organization.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Loyalty oaths are definitely a bad sign
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I had the same thought exactly
about all the defensiveness of that comment. This was followed closely by the question of why would you want so badly to stay somewhere where you felt compelled to volunteer a loyalty oath like that?
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Which? Bob Swern? Bob Johnson? Bob in Portland Maine? n/t
@lotlizard Bob Swern. Amazing
Bob Swern. Amazing work on both the financial sector and the NSA/surveillance state.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Active Measures
Here's the official definition of that term:
Here in the U.S. we suffer under the effects of "active measures" perpetrated by the fascistic ruling elite, to influence public opinion.
I recently read two articles in the New York Times, "Democrats in Split-Screen: The Base Wants It All. The Party Wants to Win," and "Attack Tests Movement Sanders Founded."
I found these articles to be so intellectually-dishonest that they immediately raised red flags for me, when it comes to identifying government propaganda.
This report about massive banning of Bernie supporters at TOP is just but one consequence of this type of narrative (the NYT articles, and others).
Much has been written about the decades-old influence organizations like the CIA and others have on much of the media, with many reports of agents infiltrating media outlets like the New York Times.
When one understands that the national security apparatus (CIA, FBI, NSA) mainly serve the interests of the oligarchical ruling class, and that Bernie's message directly threatens those interests, one should not be surprised by examples of this country's own "Active Measures."
www.RayPensador.com
When you boil it all down, the number one step you can take to get out from under the fascist boot of the oligarchy is to stop subjecting yourself to the the U.S. corporate news media. It is a powerful psyops weapon.
I went and logged in
out of sheer morbid curiosity. I haven't been banned yet. Probably nobody there even remembers me anymore.
This shit is bananas.
The Beatings Will Continue...
Until morale and unity improve!!!
Haven't been to GOS in god knows how long. I'm tempted to peek and see if I was banned, but I can't even bring myself to do that. Now that we got OPOL over here, is there anyone left there that's worth reading anyway?
I snuck out the door
shortly after the Ultimatum was announced, but before it went into effect. I don't think anybody noticed, and anyone who would have cared is now here anyhow.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Why are people still supporting Bernie,
is he running for something?
Or is it about his trying to reform the democratic party?
@Big Al He is revealing himself
He is revealing himself to be more of a team player than revolutionary.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Just call him the High Evolutionary
(Marvel Comics in-joke, in case anyone wonders. The High Evolutionary was basically a guy with good intentions whose plans kept getting fouled up.)
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Haven't been there other than to post a "DELETE MY ACCOUNT"
diary perhaps 6 months ago. What a bunch of losers. Hating, fucking, losers.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Welcome to the club!
I was banned back in Feb.
Something about a "granny panties" comment I had made, and an LOL comment I made on a comment somebody made that Obama was a progressive.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
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