@dance you monster because I failed to flesh out how the Democratic party has been using identity politics. If the Democratic party actually stood behind the betterment of the lives of those for whom identity politics is real, then I would be wrong. But being only marginally worse than the Republicans and allowing the issues that face women and minorities to slip away as well as not addressing the real economic issues that disproportionately affect women and minorities negatively is extremely problematic. The Democrats have been saying that demographics will help them in the future while ignoring the real problems that women and minorities face.

Further the Democratic party DOES use identity politics as a cudgel when it is convenient for them to do so as a means to direct attention away from the economic issues and war. It is a very cynical use of identity politics and one that in the end does little to further the real plight of those that the Democratic party professes to stand up for.

#5

I'd have one quibble with what you wrote, gulfgal.

The Democratic party has been playing the identity politics game to avoid addressing the real issues facing real people in this country.

Yes, the party has been using identity politics -- cynically -- as a cudgel to silence anyone who'd criticize their (the party honchos') paymasters in corporate C-suites. And way too many of those among the lower tiers of the party faithful have been using it no less as a cudgel to bludgeon the leftie wing who didn't genuflect to their preferred candidate, and that has led many to Demexit. But I think we do the party faithful, the Demexiters, and us a disfavor by writing it off as that.

The fear and anger at minority treatment in our society, the denial or curtailment of rights, is just as much a "real issue facing real people" as this site's more frequent emphasis on economic equality or climate change or whatever else. The problem is when one -- anyone -- professes that their issue is the only one that everyone must solve before any other can be addressed. That's what causes the friction between natural allies (I'll skip over the friction between non-allies such as the rift between lefties and centrists that is being portrayed disingenuously as a lack of concern for minority rights). I don't see that focus on exclusivity so much here at this site, but it was something that popped up over at TOP from the economically and climate minded as frequently (though rarely as vituperatively) as it did from the identity-politics crew.

It assumes that a leftie can only hold one idea in the head at a time, and it absolutely destroys any possibility of alliance. We will need alliances. We will need to hold multiple ideas in our heads at one time. That said, anyone who thinks his or her issue is automatically the one I must concentrate on first had better be prepared to be disappointed.

@dance you monster

I'm pressed for time, but would like to at least reprise this comment from yesterday:

To paraphrase Albright, there's a special place in hell for TOP,
who willingly propped up Neoliberalism and crushed any real dissent against it.

The irony is that, all of the corporate-friendly policies since the Clinton "New Democrats" took the reigns and up through Obama (read: Wall St money-grubbing/top 10% upper middle class white professional class voter-pandering) has resulted in both Occupy Wall St and Black Lives Matter, the heart and soul of Progressivism in the 21st century.

Billy Boy's notorious, heavy-handed Crime Bill/Welfare Reform and Three Strikes program, among other things, led to the explosion of the prison industrial complex/school-to-prison pipeline and police brutality, which manifested decades later in the creation of the Black Lives Matter movement.

And of course economically, Bubba savaged the country in ways that are also still reverberating. The repeal of Glass-Steagall and the equally ruinous Telecommunications Act, which ultimately led to, in less than a decade later, the Economic Crash of 2008. Three years later we had Occupy.

But as far as TOP was concerned they hadn't the stomach for full-fledged support for either of these movements, no matter how they fronted - and they did front. Oh, there were lots of outrage at police brutality and even Shaun King had a short spate there, but by then it was already in the mainstream and they had no hand in bolstering the movement.

Personally, I'm still aghast at how little the soft intelligentsia there did to back the Black Lives Matter movement, and would say it all the time. For one thing, there was a serious dearth of real activism there. No one seemed to be out in the streets in solidarity with the movement. Only jpmassar seemed to be involved with and covering actions.

But more disconcerting to me, as someone actually participating in the movement, was the extent to which they were so disconnected that even really big events did not even make it on their radar.

Two examples that I personally sought to rectify with essays where there weren't any, were the #MillionsMarchNYC (which I won't link there) and the incredible #ConcernedStudent1950 movement of Mizzou students, who successfully, with the solidarity of the school's football team ready to boycott their game, ousted a racist university president. There were many more instances of student protests/uprisings emerging at other university campuses challenging other racist conditions.
Nothing on Kos.

So to me, it's the biggest farce of all that now they attempt to "re-brand" themselves, in the vernacular of the public relations/marketing world these feckless wannabe Uber Capitalists confine and express themselves within, as a sort of Resistance™. As I've said before, those blind partisan cheerleaders, who see dissent as wearing hats and signing petitions in some bizarre defense of feminism, wouldn't know a real social movement if it ran right over the TOP of them.

In keeping with the good little capitalist lemmings that they are, forged in the fires of American Exceptionalist and American Dream propaganda, they're being led blindly by the marketing forces and public relations firms enlisted by the Democratic Party, selling them "empowerment" when in reality those TOP dupes are again being used as cogs in the wheels of their gravy train.

#5

I'd have one quibble with what you wrote, gulfgal.

The Democratic party has been playing the identity politics game to avoid addressing the real issues facing real people in this country.

Yes, the party has been using identity politics -- cynically -- as a cudgel to silence anyone who'd criticize their (the party honchos') paymasters in corporate C-suites. And way too many of those among the lower tiers of the party faithful have been using it no less as a cudgel to bludgeon the leftie wing who didn't genuflect to their preferred candidate, and that has led many to Demexit. But I think we do the party faithful, the Demexiters, and us a disfavor by writing it off as that.

The fear and anger at minority treatment in our society, the denial or curtailment of rights, is just as much a "real issue facing real people" as this site's more frequent emphasis on economic equality or climate change or whatever else. The problem is when one -- anyone -- professes that their issue is the only one that everyone must solve before any other can be addressed. That's what causes the friction between natural allies (I'll skip over the friction between non-allies such as the rift between lefties and centrists that is being portrayed disingenuously as a lack of concern for minority rights). I don't see that focus on exclusivity so much here at this site, but it was something that popped up over at TOP from the economically and climate minded as frequently (though rarely as vituperatively) as it did from the identity-politics crew.

It assumes that a leftie can only hold one idea in the head at a time, and it absolutely destroys any possibility of alliance. We will need alliances. We will need to hold multiple ideas in our heads at one time. That said, anyone who thinks his or her issue is automatically the one I must concentrate on first had better be prepared to be disappointed.

@tote

Longtime lurker here, still-active poster there, but I'm wearying fast of the corporate-friendly toxicity there.

In my humble opinion, you should migrate your active posting here.

The results are far worthier of your efforts!

#6 You should go back an see my response to him. Longtime lurker here, still-active poster there, but I'm wearying fast of the corporate-friendly toxicity there.

@tote
thanks for sending me back to read your response to him.
Perfect.

#6 You should go back an see my response to him. Longtime lurker here, still-active poster there, but I'm wearying fast of the corporate-friendly toxicity there.

@tote We hear you but sometimes

Enough is enough. There is a set number of times you can hit your head against that wall before giving up because:

• Nothing changes
• It hurts like a mother

We each have our own limit but once it's reached, that's it.

If they can't see that the people they lost are worth real respect, it is their loss.

#6 #6 FWIW I wish you were all still in both places, we can use the extra brains and muscle in the Bernie wing of Daily Kos. One of the big reasons its become such a laughingstock is because so many of you have left.

@tote

Putting aside politics, I hate the administration of that blog. It is more like Lord of Flies than a blog for adults. Fuck them and their group hunts, timeouts, and bannings. The help desk is anything but helpful, and they are as diverse as a box of noodles. They are a bunch of old, white, rich, Tesla driving males with JD/PhDs busy swinging their dicks.

#6 #6 FWIW I wish you were all still in both places, we can use the extra brains and muscle in the Bernie wing of Daily Kos. One of the big reasons its become such a laughingstock is because so many of you have left.

@tote This site was started, not as the anti-kos or the pro Bernie site, but because a group of us wanted more substantive discussion of issues and policy that was lacking at dkos.

#6 #6 FWIW I wish you were all still in both places, we can use the extra brains and muscle in the Bernie wing of Daily Kos. One of the big reasons its become such a laughingstock is because so many of you have left.