The Democratic Party Civil War Has Begun

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 5:55pm

I pointed out last week how a grassroots insurgency was threatening the corrupt Democratic establishment, which is in the process of co-opting 'The Resistance'.
This week the Empire Struck Back, and Bernie Sanders was the target.
Just check out these headlines:

Sheldon Whitehouse: 'Wall Street money' backed Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton
Bernie Sanders’s Misguided Attacks on the “Liberal Elite”
And especially this last one.
‘Russians Bots’ Is Latest Smear Campaign Against Sanders Progressives

The Russian election interference narrative has devolved into Clinton loyalists attempting to rehabilitate the Clinton brand, so it was inevitable that the narrative would be used to attack Sen. Bernie Sanders and his supporters. These attacks have ranged from baseless allegations that Sanders supporters are Russian stooges to reducing their criticisms of Hillary Clinton to being the result of Russian bot-fueled propaganda.

Months after the election, Clinton supporters are still re-litigating the argument that she was a good candidate, which is, in essence, the effect of their claims that the Russian government hired people to pose as “Bernie Bros” to inflame progressives’ criticisms of Clinton. There has not been any evidence to support these claims, yet the allegations have been sustained throughout the past several weeks.

You know you are dealing with a deeply sick and corrupt political party when it rejects and smears the most popular politician in America, not to mention his supporters, which are the most enthusiastic and motivated part of your political base.

So what brought this on?
These two articles should give you an idea.
Virginia

In the race for Virginia's governorship, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vermont) has thrown his support Tuesday behind a candidate challenging the Democratic establishment's preferred choice. It's not exactly a surprising move for a former progressive presidential candidate who nearly upended the candidacy of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, who would go on to lose to outsider Republican nominee Donald Trump.
Lt. Gov. Ralph Northam has garnered the support of "nearly every Democrat in the state legislature, congressional delegation and statewide office," The Washington Post reported. Sanders has backed Tom Perriello, citing his progressive ideals. The Democratic primary is scheduled for June.

Missouri

During a private fundraiser, Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) asked Bernie Sanders supporters to join her re-election campaign in 2018.
“All of you who are Bernie supporters … I need you. I want you. I want to talk to you. I want you to be part of our effort,” McCaskill said. “We can’t get divided in a state like Missouri or we’re cooked.” McCaskill has previously voiced concern she is worried about facing a Democratic Primary challenger from the progressive wing of the party, though no candidate has yet emerged to challenge her.
“I’m a little worried about a primary against me because I think the Republicans would want to return the favor,” she said. “I think the Republicans might give a lot of money to one of my primary opponents doing a similar thing to what I did for Todd Akin,” in reference to ads McCaskill ran in favor of Todd Akin, the most extreme conservative candidate, during the 2012 GOP Primary.
McCaskill has received criticism from Sanders Supporters for her centrist stances, such as recently claiming Democrats blocking Trump’s Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch would put the Supreme Court in “jeopardy.” McCaskill also voted in favor of most of Trump cabinet nominees.
During the 2016 Democratic Primaries, McCaskill served as a surrogate for the Clinton Campaign, having endorsed her for President in 2013, two years before Clinton formally announced her campaign. In June 2015, she complained the media was giving him a free pass because ““I think Bernie is too liberal to gather enough votes in this country to become president.”

The corporate Democratic establishment is starting to get a little nervous from the threats by grassroots groups like #WeWillReplaceYou, which has warned specific members of congress it may challenge them.
The perfect response to this uprising was voiced by none other than Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

“Respectfully to Sen. [Bernie] Sanders, we are already a grassroots party,” Schultz told MSNBC’s “For the Record with Greta.”

And America is already great.

This civil war is a good and necessary thing for Democracy. It absolutely has to happen, and it has to Go Big.

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren got together to introduce a bill to make public college free for the working class.
He also intends to introduce a "Medicare-for-all, single-payer" health care plan.

Tags:

Democratic Party

Vote

Comments

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:07pm

I say we handle it the Traditional American way...

for dealing with civil wars.

Sell guns to one side, then blame all the problems of the country on the winner, no matter who wins. Invade and sell the assets off to the highest corporate briber.

/snark

Seriously though, this is going to do the same thing all wars do. Disproportionately affect the poor, and make some assholes less rich and other ones more rich.

—

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:13pm

I'm glad to say I strongly disagree

@detroitmechworks

Seriously though, this is going to do the same thing all wars do. Disproportionately affect the poor

That only happens if the establishment wins.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 8:52pm

That always happens in non-consensus democracies

@gjohnsit

...this is going to do the same thing all wars do. Disproportionately affect the poor

…because they constantly re-define who the establishment is.

Just sayin'

The US is a non-consenus democracy (fueled by a duopoly, no less).

To ordinary people, it looks like a game of "Heads I win, tails you lose" every single time.

Submitted by shaharazade on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 8:22pm

I have to say

@Pluto's Republic it looks to me like the coin being tossed has only got tails on both sides. The owners of the place win and the toss is a slight of the hand and eye. We lose regardless of who wins.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:24pm

Maybe. But Bernie making

@detroitmechworks
all the right moves. And, this Party Divide started the moment The Donald declared victory Election Night, if not before. The Hillary wing will never ever forgive Bernie and BernieBros for fucking Hillary; and the Bernie wing will never support Hillary or HRC wing (DNC) candidates for fucking Bernie during the Primary. As well it should be. May the best team win.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 5:05am

Bernie never fucked Hillary.

@Wink

When he first announced, he said "This is not about Hillary Clinton. I know her. I respect her." In their first debate, he took her off the hook for her emails. He never punched below the belt. Throughout, when asked, he said something like, "On her worst day, she'd be a thousand times better than Trump." He endorsed her before the Convention. He campaigned for her.

I know it was "her" turn and she and the DNC planned for her to run unopposed, but it's not about her and her sleazy husband and the DNC. There are around 330 million other Americans out there who deserve better.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 9:51pm

"Bernie never fucked Hillary.

@HenryAWallace
"This is not about Hillary Clinton.I know her. I respect her... "
Tell that to the #HillBots, the I'm-With-Her mindless. They have a dozen or two reasons why she lost, but top on the list is that futhermucker Bernie and his futhermucking BernieBros. That will always be the case, and a big reason for the Party Divide. One could even say the Divide began when Benie announced. How DARE he! The nerve! Doesn't he care about the Glass Ceiling?! Bastard!

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 4:51am

Why would I try telling a bot anything?

@HenryAWallace

I don't know any bots IRL. Everyone I know IRL was for Bernie and/or ABAC--Anybody But Another Clinton. Inasmuch as my major online activities are reading, shopping and posting, that leaves only message board bots.

I know that ads for various companies that pop up on my computer screen are programmed to pop up on my screen with a predetermined message. I also know that they are not capable of either authentic interchanges or independent thought. Trying to tell them anything is like trying to ask items in your cupboards to please re-organize themselves because another arrangement would be so much better for you and them. You can spend time and energy doing that but....why on earth would you?

If I had seen any point in trying to have an authentic discussion with message board bots, I would not have left the board that I had been posting on before I registered here.

BTW, given how much they hated Hillary and loved Obama in 2008, then loved them them both, but especially Hillary, I think most of them are DNCbots, not Hillarybots. Hillarybots left the board after 2008, not to return until maybe her Hard ~~Cheese~~ Choices book tour. And they left again after the 2016 election.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:03pm

@HenryAWallace

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace

Good point! Excellent point! Pointy point! And until you pointed this out, I missed it as repeatedly as I do typos... Obviously - they seem to be as permanently embedded and as fanatic as the Deep State, don't they?

Edit: it so very evidently - once pointed out - boils down to whoever TPTB want, with all unwanted others labeled as scumsucking not-The-Right-Candidates.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by James Kroeger on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:20am

I'm quite sure the Hillbots would say...

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace

Bernie fucked her by running against her, thus exposing the True Hillary for all to see, forcing her into High Triangulation Mode.

Of course, once again it is the reality of Hillary Clinton that doomed her candidacy, not the unknown Truth Lovers/Russians who made it available for Bernie supporters to blanch at.

—

James Kroeger

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 5:02am

I know they planned for her to run unopposed.

@James Kroeger

However, I don't think Bernie exposed much about Hillary per se.

Submitted by James Kroeger on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 6:27am

Yeah

@HenryAWallace

It wasn't what he was intentionally exposing about her.

It was more the simple fact that since he was another choice, comparing and contrasting led one naturally to see that the issues he was emphasizing in generic terms indirectly revealed---to those who compared the two---that she was a serial liar and a cynical manipulator of voters.

If he had not run, their simple branding efforts with HRC (all things to all Dems during campaign season) might have limited the awareness of her negatives among those who hate and fear Republicans.

That's how they are looking at it today.

—

James Kroeger

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 7:25am

I chose the words of my prior post purposefully, including

@James Kroeger

the "much" and the "per se."

During the primary, I had no trouble convincing people I know that Hillary would not be a good President. It was the "But I don't want another McGovern in the general" that I had to work to overcome.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 8:56pm

Hate to be a contrarian, but...

@Wink

this Party Divide started the moment The Donald declared victory Election Night, if not before.

…this Party Divide officially started on March 15, 2016.

I'm sure David Brock will back that up.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 9:33pm

You may be right

@Pluto's Republic
but the insurgency didn't start until recently.

Submitted by gustogirl on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 1:42am

Yeah because they

@gjohnsit
were surprised beyond all measure.

You can see how knee-jerky some of the earliest responses were...

Submitted by shaharazade on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 8:33pm

I thought the

@gjohnsit insurgency was the fact that Bernie's Democratic supporters flocked to his campaign. He gave voice to all the people who knew what and who the Clinton machine was and just how corrupt the whole damn system is. To me the most impressive thing about his campaign was not Bernie but the people who had had enough. They we're the real insurgents not the partisan Dem. insider's who told us all that the D party machine pick was all we could get. The campaign certainly opened [peoples eyes as to just how rigged and corrupt our electoral system is.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 9:57pm

Well, I did say

@Pluto's Republic
"if not before." I agree the Ides is as good a date as any. I give Markos some credit though. He gave me three T.O.s before BoJoing my ass. I just could not abide by that #HillBot horse$h!t over there.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 7:28am

The Dem Party divide started five minutes after Al From

@Pluto's Republic

walked outof the office of the Governor of Arkansas after promising the Gov that he would be President if he ran the way From told him to run. Maybe less. Depends on how many minutes it took Bill and Hillary to decide on how best to proceed before they got on the phone and started making calls.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 8:56pm

@Wink

@Wink

And the best team includes a good chunk of Indies, the largest voting group.

Mind you, something has to be done to prevent Homeland (In)Security from covering up the electoral cheating to suit corporate/billionaire/TPTB 'all-important 'American interests', whose profiteering and power theft from others is always worth killing for...

It's been said that the only way an established party has ever been replaced in American political history is by some popular politician leaving a Party, and taking a goodly chuck of their dissatisfied voters over to a new but already organized Party... Hmmmmm, seems to me quite possible...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:16am

@detroitmechworks I think this war, if it

@detroitmechworks I think this war, if it is one, may be over something which has lost most of its value.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 7:29am

Power never loses its value.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 8:50am

@The Voice In the Wilderness That assumes that the

@The Voice In the Wilderness That assumes that the Democratic party could be a road to power for anybody such as me.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 7:27pm

No, not value to YOU. Value to THEM.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 8:53am

@The Voice In the Wilderness It also ignores the

@The Voice In the Wilderness It also ignores the idea of a failed brand. Why would we want to take over a party that's best known at this point for losing to Donald Trump and which has lost nearly enough state legislatures and governorships to allow the Republicans to call a Constitutional Convention?

This is a kind poll. I've seen numbers in the mid-30s:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/democratic-party-favorable-...

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Steven D on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:09pm

Now Warren loves her some Bernie

Where was she when it mattered?

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:24pm

@Steven D Exactly.

@Steven D Exactly.
I have swung 180 degrees on her.
I supported the "draft E.W." movement until Bernie jumped into the fray.
I just do not completely "get" her.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:31pm

With Her!

@Steven D

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 9:58pm

LOL. n/t

@The Voice In the Wilderness

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:09pm

@The Voice In the Wilderness WitHered!

@The Voice In the Wilderness WitHered!

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Dr. John Carpenter on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 1:15pm

Well, it matters to HER now...

@Steven D and by that I mean getting her name in the media giving a few progressive sounding speeches. Attaching herself to Bernie makes total sense as she needs to shore her progressive cred back up, he's still the "it" boy and he doesn't seem to have the ability to say no to a Democrat no matter how shabby they've treated him. The bonuses for her are that this won't go anywhere so she'll not have to do anything more than speechify (as usual) and maybe she can get a Bernie endorsement for what's looking like a tough 2018 race.

—

Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

Submitted by shaharazade on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 8:46pm

Same place she's alway been

@Steven D a blowhard, lying, ex-Republican from Harvard. She's the designated darling for the fake 'progressives' that mistake getting up and grandstanding for being a 'socially liberal' champion. The good cop for the establishment Dems. I never liked nor trusted her. She's all talk and even her talk reeks of The Third Way. Lame Dodd Frank? Foreign policy? Yikes! Shah used to watch her on TV back when she was orally giving the bankster's hell and tell me she's a faker and just another slimy pol like Obama.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:11pm

@shaharazade

@shaharazade

Yup, lots of well-publicized 'you evil bankster should be brought up on charges' and not a hint of 'I will see you tried for your crimes'...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:19pm

Deep State: Saviors of Democracy for Hillarybots

how times have changed

Fast forward to today. While scores of progressives still blame Comey in large part for Clinton's numbing loss, their near apoplectic enmity towards him has waned considerably.
Comey and the FBI are no longer considered card-carrying members of the "deep state" and, as such, prime enemies of democracy. Instead, they are viewed as would-be saviours of democracy, the US Constitution and apple pie.

This remarkable volte-face by progressives is symptomatic of a prevailing pathology that has caused once rabid ideological adversaries to come together to confront and ultimately vanquish a common monster: Donald Trump.
...
Apparently, these days, the "deep state" is no longer working for the bad guys, but the good guys. It has, in effect, changed sides.

Sure, the deep state may have denied Clinton her rightful and long overdue crown and has, for years, systematically spied on, collected and stored intimate details about the lives of countless people with little or no oversight, let alone a warrant.

But progressives are too busy letting bygones be bygones to remember. The good guys have fixed their crosshairs on Trump and treacherous company and that's all that matters.

In this convenient, self-serving arrangement, former CIA officer turned independent presidential candidate, Evan McMullin, is cast by progressives suffering from a stubborn case of amnesia as a prominent and popular leader of the nascent Trump "resistance" movement.

It's an odd position for an ex-spy to occupy. There, alas, it is. Still, two hard-right US senators, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, now accompany McMullin as La Resistance poster boys.

McCain and Graham are routinely lauded by progressives for their occasional bouts of dissent vis-a-vis Trump's habitual lunacy. Despite the fact that, until just before the election, McCain supported the reckless braggart for president and almost, without fail, both senators have sided with his nihilistic regime's destructive legislative agenda in Congress.

Not surprisingly, these easily impressed progressives have, as well, welcomed the who's who of neo-con scribes and think-tank foreign policy wonks aboard the Trump resistance train.

Forgotten, of course, is their long, ghastly record of acting as giddy cheerleaders for the "liberation" of Iraq engineered by the man they universally touted as a geopolitical genius, George W Bush.

The revisionism is as instructive as it is appalling.

Even Bush Jr's tattered reputation and disastrous tenure as president are being rehabilitated by agreeable "liberal" talk show hosts who treat him like he's a cuddly, if somewhat misunderstood, elder statesman principally because president 43 doesn't remotely resemble that nasty narcissist, president 45.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:31pm

@gjohnsit My Counterpunch news

@gjohnsit My Counterpunch news letter today leads with an article that Comey, not the Russians, caused Her to lose.

how times have changed Fast forward to today. While scores of progressives still blame Comey in large part for Clinton's numbing loss, their near apoplectic enmity towards him has waned considerably. Comey and the FBI are no longer considered card-carrying members of the "deep state" and, as such, prime enemies of democracy. Instead, they are viewed as would-be saviours of democracy, the US Constitution and apple pie. This remarkable volte-face by progressives is symptomatic of a prevailing pathology that has caused once rabid ideological adversaries to come together to confront and ultimately vanquish a common monster: Donald Trump. ... Apparently, these days, the "deep state" is no longer working for the bad guys, but the good guys. It has, in effect, changed sides. Sure, the deep state may have denied Clinton her rightful and long overdue crown and has, for years, systematically spied on, collected and stored intimate details about the lives of countless people with little or no oversight, let alone a warrant. But progressives are too busy letting bygones be bygones to remember. The good guys have fixed their crosshairs on Trump and treacherous company and that's all that matters. In this convenient, self-serving arrangement, former CIA officer turned independent presidential candidate, Evan McMullin, is cast by progressives suffering from a stubborn case of amnesia as a prominent and popular leader of the nascent Trump "resistance" movement. It's an odd position for an ex-spy to occupy. There, alas, it is. Still, two hard-right US senators, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, now accompany McMullin as La Resistance poster boys. McCain and Graham are routinely lauded by progressives for their occasional bouts of dissent vis-a-vis Trump's habitual lunacy. Despite the fact that, until just before the election, McCain supported the reckless braggart for president and almost, without fail, both senators have sided with his nihilistic regime's destructive legislative agenda in Congress. Not surprisingly, these easily impressed progressives have, as well, welcomed the who's who of neo-con scribes and think-tank foreign policy wonks aboard the Trump resistance train. Forgotten, of course, is their long, ghastly record of acting as giddy cheerleaders for the "liberation" of Iraq engineered by the man they universally touted as a geopolitical genius, George W Bush. The revisionism is as instructive as it is appalling. Even Bush Jr's tattered reputation and disastrous tenure as president are being rehabilitated by agreeable "liberal" talk show hosts who treat him like he's a cuddly, if somewhat misunderstood, elder statesman principally because president 43 doesn't remotely resemble that nasty narcissist, president 45.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by ghotiphaze on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 8:43pm

Spin like a pulsar all they want,

@on the cusp ultimately Hillary caused Hillary to lose.

—

There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 9:57pm

@ghotiphaze Agreed! I was very

@ghotiphaze Agreed! I was very disheartened to be sent that shit from CP.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:04pm

Exactly. It was hers

@ghotiphaze
to lose and she did a damn fine job!

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:02pm

How many votes did

@on the cusp
that flip? Enough to lose? People's minds were made up by July. But, hey, who knows? Anything possible last year.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by on the cusp on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:30pm

@Wink None, Wink.

@Wink None, Wink.
If Counterpunch continues with this propaganda, I will discontinue my email updates.
I am shocked (and dismayed!) to read that crap as their newsletter banner article.
In other words, it was not the content, but the source that was so damn infuriating.
"When you lose Cronkite..."

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 7:49pm

@on the cusp Dear gods, please make

@on the cusp Dear gods, please make it stop. It's like a nightmare. They won't stop campaigning. Is this aversion therapy for democracy?

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:18pm

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

You could very well be right about the democracy aversion therapy effect being intended. Clinton, like other Republicans, was said to benefit from low voter turn-out/strategic voter suppression, after all. And the corporate Republicans detest democracy, want everything run by corporate war-lords, just like the corporate Dems...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 3:39pm

Comey, the Russians, Bernie, Bernie Bros, the

@on the cusp

unseasonably balmy weather on election day, very possibly the Cub Scouts--any excuse other than people are sick of the establishment and want more and different from their government for their tax dollars than they've been getting.

Submitted by James Kroeger on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 11:22pm

Some confused analysis there...

@gjohnsit

The Deep State has always been behind Hillary, and against Bernie, from day one.

She lost in spite of their all-out efforts to get her elected.

The Deep State---representing The Oligarchy as it does---has never supported the efforts of the Progressives. If they ever appear to at some point, it is only because they are pursuing some kind of multi-dimensional chess game outcome by doing so.

It's always MOTIVE that reveals the hidden truth...

how times have changed Fast forward to today. While scores of progressives still blame Comey in large part for Clinton's numbing loss, their near apoplectic enmity towards him has waned considerably. Comey and the FBI are no longer considered card-carrying members of the "deep state" and, as such, prime enemies of democracy. Instead, they are viewed as would-be saviours of democracy, the US Constitution and apple pie. This remarkable volte-face by progressives is symptomatic of a prevailing pathology that has caused once rabid ideological adversaries to come together to confront and ultimately vanquish a common monster: Donald Trump. ... Apparently, these days, the "deep state" is no longer working for the bad guys, but the good guys. It has, in effect, changed sides. Sure, the deep state may have denied Clinton her rightful and long overdue crown and has, for years, systematically spied on, collected and stored intimate details about the lives of countless people with little or no oversight, let alone a warrant. But progressives are too busy letting bygones be bygones to remember. The good guys have fixed their crosshairs on Trump and treacherous company and that's all that matters. In this convenient, self-serving arrangement, former CIA officer turned independent presidential candidate, Evan McMullin, is cast by progressives suffering from a stubborn case of amnesia as a prominent and popular leader of the nascent Trump "resistance" movement. It's an odd position for an ex-spy to occupy. There, alas, it is. Still, two hard-right US senators, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, now accompany McMullin as La Resistance poster boys. McCain and Graham are routinely lauded by progressives for their occasional bouts of dissent vis-a-vis Trump's habitual lunacy. Despite the fact that, until just before the election, McCain supported the reckless braggart for president and almost, without fail, both senators have sided with his nihilistic regime's destructive legislative agenda in Congress. Not surprisingly, these easily impressed progressives have, as well, welcomed the who's who of neo-con scribes and think-tank foreign policy wonks aboard the Trump resistance train. Forgotten, of course, is their long, ghastly record of acting as giddy cheerleaders for the "liberation" of Iraq engineered by the man they universally touted as a geopolitical genius, George W Bush. The revisionism is as instructive as it is appalling. Even Bush Jr's tattered reputation and disastrous tenure as president are being rehabilitated by agreeable "liberal" talk show hosts who treat him like he's a cuddly, if somewhat misunderstood, elder statesman principally because president 43 doesn't remotely resemble that nasty narcissist, president 45.

—

James Kroeger

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:34am

My corollary to the Kroeger Law

@James Kroeger The Law:

It's always MOTIVE that reveals the hidden truth...

The Corollary: Look 180˚ from the direction of MSM fire and you will find The MOTIVE.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 5:11am

Progressive & moderate & centrist

@gjohnsit

These words have no meaning. Feinstein and her pal Clare are not moderates, and Hillarybots are not progressives. The MSM saying they are makes them purveyors of fake news.

how times have changed Fast forward to today. While scores of progressives still blame Comey in large part for Clinton's numbing loss, their near apoplectic enmity towards him has waned considerably. Comey and the FBI are no longer considered card-carrying members of the "deep state" and, as such, prime enemies of democracy. Instead, they are viewed as would-be saviours of democracy, the US Constitution and apple pie. This remarkable volte-face by progressives is symptomatic of a prevailing pathology that has caused once rabid ideological adversaries to come together to confront and ultimately vanquish a common monster: Donald Trump. ... Apparently, these days, the "deep state" is no longer working for the bad guys, but the good guys. It has, in effect, changed sides. Sure, the deep state may have denied Clinton her rightful and long overdue crown and has, for years, systematically spied on, collected and stored intimate details about the lives of countless people with little or no oversight, let alone a warrant. But progressives are too busy letting bygones be bygones to remember. The good guys have fixed their crosshairs on Trump and treacherous company and that's all that matters. In this convenient, self-serving arrangement, former CIA officer turned independent presidential candidate, Evan McMullin, is cast by progressives suffering from a stubborn case of amnesia as a prominent and popular leader of the nascent Trump "resistance" movement. It's an odd position for an ex-spy to occupy. There, alas, it is. Still, two hard-right US senators, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, now accompany McMullin as La Resistance poster boys. McCain and Graham are routinely lauded by progressives for their occasional bouts of dissent vis-a-vis Trump's habitual lunacy. Despite the fact that, until just before the election, McCain supported the reckless braggart for president and almost, without fail, both senators have sided with his nihilistic regime's destructive legislative agenda in Congress. Not surprisingly, these easily impressed progressives have, as well, welcomed the who's who of neo-con scribes and think-tank foreign policy wonks aboard the Trump resistance train. Forgotten, of course, is their long, ghastly record of acting as giddy cheerleaders for the "liberation" of Iraq engineered by the man they universally touted as a geopolitical genius, George W Bush. The revisionism is as instructive as it is appalling. Even Bush Jr's tattered reputation and disastrous tenure as president are being rehabilitated by agreeable "liberal" talk show hosts who treat him like he's a cuddly, if somewhat misunderstood, elder statesman principally because president 43 doesn't remotely resemble that nasty narcissist, president 45.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by native on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 11:58am

Andrew Mitrovica keeps repeating

@gjohnsit

that progressives have made this volte face. It would be more accurate to say that Democrats have done that. I'm not sure the Democratic Party much represents progressives anymore.

how times have changed Fast forward to today. While scores of progressives still blame Comey in large part for Clinton's numbing loss, their near apoplectic enmity towards him has waned considerably. Comey and the FBI are no longer considered card-carrying members of the "deep state" and, as such, prime enemies of democracy. Instead, they are viewed as would-be saviours of democracy, the US Constitution and apple pie. This remarkable volte-face by progressives is symptomatic of a prevailing pathology that has caused once rabid ideological adversaries to come together to confront and ultimately vanquish a common monster: Donald Trump. ... Apparently, these days, the "deep state" is no longer working for the bad guys, but the good guys. It has, in effect, changed sides. Sure, the deep state may have denied Clinton her rightful and long overdue crown and has, for years, systematically spied on, collected and stored intimate details about the lives of countless people with little or no oversight, let alone a warrant. But progressives are too busy letting bygones be bygones to remember. The good guys have fixed their crosshairs on Trump and treacherous company and that's all that matters. In this convenient, self-serving arrangement, former CIA officer turned independent presidential candidate, Evan McMullin, is cast by progressives suffering from a stubborn case of amnesia as a prominent and popular leader of the nascent Trump "resistance" movement. It's an odd position for an ex-spy to occupy. There, alas, it is. Still, two hard-right US senators, John McCain and Lindsey Graham, now accompany McMullin as La Resistance poster boys. McCain and Graham are routinely lauded by progressives for their occasional bouts of dissent vis-a-vis Trump's habitual lunacy. Despite the fact that, until just before the election, McCain supported the reckless braggart for president and almost, without fail, both senators have sided with his nihilistic regime's destructive legislative agenda in Congress. Not surprisingly, these easily impressed progressives have, as well, welcomed the who's who of neo-con scribes and think-tank foreign policy wonks aboard the Trump resistance train. Forgotten, of course, is their long, ghastly record of acting as giddy cheerleaders for the "liberation" of Iraq engineered by the man they universally touted as a geopolitical genius, George W Bush. The revisionism is as instructive as it is appalling. Even Bush Jr's tattered reputation and disastrous tenure as president are being rehabilitated by agreeable "liberal" talk show hosts who treat him like he's a cuddly, if somewhat misunderstood, elder statesman principally because president 43 doesn't remotely resemble that nasty narcissist, president 45.

—

native

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:34pm

The words have been twisted

@native
liberal, progressive
The definition of those words depends on who is using them.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:31pm

What's wrong with Conyers' bill?

Conyers has been filing a Medicare for All bill, HR 676, annually for like forever. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676.

It's been in Committee since February. The Indian Affairs Committee, to be specific. Guess the Republicans are not all that interested in Medicare for All. Whodda ever thunk that?

Bernie and Warren know, as do we all, that this Congress will not enact a Medicare for All bill.

I had unsubscribed from the Donate to the Revolution emails some months back. They stopped promptly, until I got yesterday's, asking me to become a citizen sponsor of his Medicare for All bill and, of course, to donate.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:09pm

Yes, they know it

@HenryAWallace
has no chance, but how many "Kill O'Care!" bills did dumbfuck McConnell send to Obama? With Bernie it's all about "the long game."

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 7:10am

How long a game were you thinking?

@Wink

Warren has been in Congress for over four years. Like Hillary, Warren has written zero substantive bills that became law. I don't even think she's done non-substantive bills that became law. Maybe Post Offices in NY need re-naming more than post offices in Massachusetts, but I could care less about bills like that anyway. She is up for re-election and may have a celebrity Republican challenger, who has already question what she has actually accomplished. None of this, standing beside Bernie or proposing a Medicare bill, will hurt her in liberal Massachusetts.

Bernie has been in Congress for 25 years. During that time he wrote 3 or 4 very important bills (including amendments, for which he is famous) that became law. The candidates he backed in 2016 did not do well in 2016. He's 75. How much longer can the game possibly go? I don't know if he is up for re-election, too. However, in Vermont, the only thing that could possibly hurt his shot at re-election except for democrats' violating their agreement with Bernie and running a Democrat against him for his Senate seat for the first time.

You and I work from the same set of facts, but interpret them somewhat differently. Even though we may never agree on everything, I respect your knowledge, and your views and your willingness to work toward them, and therefore I respect you. However, raising money to pass a health bill that you know won't pass is not okay.

If people, many of whom are desperate, are being asked to contribute to a "long game" and/or the election campaigns of Bernie and Warren and Berniecrats, then that's what they need to know before they hand over money. Anything else is a con. Whether it's a long con or a short con, I leave to others.

The classic con is telling the mark you want money for X, X being something you know is likely to separate the mark from his or her money. However, you actually intend to use the mark's money for Y, something you think is less likely to cause the mark to hand over to you his or her money.

Submitted by FuturePassed on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 10:33pm

Warren has been in Congress for over four years.

@HenryAWallace with a Republican majority in each of them. Care to give a few examples of senators who got major progressive legislation passed during that time?

If Warren had endorsed Bernie she'd have lost in 2018 and it's doubtful Bernie would have carried MA, let alone won the nomination. She gave Bernie more help than people here recognize. When Hillary's minions including Paul Krugman pointed out that Glass Steagall didn't have controls for some of the factors that caused the '08 meltdown, she pointed out that Bernie had endorsed her Revised Glass Steagall that did. When Hillary's hit team said Bernie was unrealistic and the Revised Glass Steagall didn't call for breaking up the too big to fail banks, Warren said it wasn't in the bill but she favored breaking up the too big to fail banks. She issued a list of finance executives who should be indicted just before a primary. That helped Bernie.

She was the only female Democratic senator not to endorse Hillary and one of damned few of either gender. When one of the most prominent female senators declines to endorse Hillary Clinton during the primary I think the message is pretty clear.

If you know a progressive Democrat who's getting legislation through this congress, please pass it on. I'll get on board.

#4.1 Warren has been in Congress for over four years. Like Hillary, Warren has written zero substantive bills that became law. I don't even think she's done non-substantive bills that became law. Maybe Post Offices in NY need re-naming more than post offices in Massachusetts, but I could care less about bills like that anyway. She is up for re-election and may have a celebrity Republican challenger, who has already question what she has actually accomplished. None of this, standing beside Bernie or proposing a Medicare bill, will hurt her in liberal Massachusetts. Bernie has been in Congress for 25 years. During that time he wrote 3 or 4 very important bills (including amendments, for which he is famous) that became law. The candidates he backed in 2016 did not do well in 2016. He's 75. How much longer can the game possibly go? I don't know if he is up for re-election, too. However, in Vermont, the only thing that could possibly hurt his shot at re-election except for democrats' violating their agreement with Bernie and running a Democrat against him for his Senate seat for the first time. You and I work from the same set of facts, but interpret them somewhat differently. Even though we may never agree on everything, I respect your knowledge, and your views and your willingness to work toward them, and therefore I respect you. However, raising money to pass a health bill that you know won't pass is not okay. If people, many of whom are desperate, are being asked to contribute to a "long game" and/or the election campaigns of Bernie and Warren and Berniecrats, then that's what they need to know before they hand over money. Anything else is a con. Whether it's a long con or a short con, I leave to others. The classic con is telling the mark you want money for X, X being something you know is likely to separate the mark from his or her money. However, you actually intend to use the mark's money for Y, something you think is less likely to cause the mark to hand over to you his or her money.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 3:14pm

First, my post focused on

@FuturePassed

what is happening right now, how Warren and Bernie are raising money to pass a Medicare for All bill they both know won't pass. However, your reply said nothing about that. Second, my post did not say Warren failed to write "major progressive" legislation that passed. It said she wrote zero legislation that passed. (On edit: Legislative records, while not the topic of this thread, were mentioned only) because I was replying to wink's comment about Bernie playing "the long game."

As far as Republicans, even they have been known to work across the aisle. In fact Bernie and McCain passed veterans' legislation together that way. Whether you want to characterize that as progressive or not, it did somebody other than billionaires some good. So, can you point to examples of where Warren even tried to work with one or Republicans to get a bill passed in a Republican Congress that might have helped anyone but the wealthy?

Otherwise, your post reminds me of the automatic passes Obama got, even when he had a Democratic Congress because...cloture. Or Lieberman. Or blue dogs. Or, re-election. Or pick a reason. For similar reasons, like every other politician in history since Lincoln, Warren will always have to find a way to either repeal the cloture rules or work across the aisle. And, if none of them can do that, we need to disband Congress and the rest of the D.C. shebang. It's way too time-consuming and expensive for excuses.

Again, while my post mentioned the legislative records of Warren and Bernie, obviously, that not the main topic of my post. Neither was I trying to get you on board with Markey.

As for the rest of your post, I have to wonder what information you based this on?

If Warren had endorsed Bernie she'd have lost in 2018 and it's doubtful Bernie would have carried MA, let alone won the nomination.

Neither of us has a crystal ball, but I know of nothing that supports that assertion. In 2008, in Massachusetts, Obama had everything going for him. He had wowed everyone at the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Massachusetts, speaking as the choice of Massachusetts Senator and then party nominee Kerry. He was the choice of the PTB of the Party. He had the strong endorsement of Massachusetts Senator Kennedy, who, though he was dying, was on the campaign trail for Obama--and the endorsement of a Kennedy in Massachusets ain't nothing. And he had a boatload of endorsements and money. He lost the Massachusetts primary to Hillary by a lot.

On Super Tuesday, 2016, Bubba made the rounds of three polling places in Massachusetts. Why do you suppose he did that in Massachusetts, of all states? I'm guessing it was because internal polling of the Hillary campaign showed Hillary might lose in Massachusetts. And in fact, Bernie, who had none of the things going for him that Obama had in 2008 lost by exactly one delegate, much better than Obama had done.

As far as the General, wow, Massachusetts has gone Republican exactly twice in modern times, once for war hero Eisenhower and once for very famous and well-liked former Democrat Ronnie Reagan, after the unfortunate Carter years and after Reagan had been in America's living rooms every week with G.E. Theater. Heck, Massachusetts was even the only state to vote for McGovern, who didn't even carry his home state.

Further, Warren and Bernie just went to Massachusetts to hold a rally for this bill they know won't pass. I believe it's the first rally they held on it. If Warren thought Sanders was going to hurt her there in 2018 (a) what basis could she possibly have to think that, giving how well he did in the primary, all things considered; and (b)why would she do it, especially now, just as Republicans have been announcing they want to run against her? I'm thinking she did it because she thought it might help her in 2018. Anyway, she can't think standing beside Sanders in Massachusetts will hurt her in 2018.

My prior post addressed her pre-primary and primary behavior. I thought her pre-primary behavior was awful and her primary behavior self-protective and "Presidential." And she probably helped Hillary more than Bernie, including with her 2013 letter urging Hillary to run and her (Warren's) equivocation about her own primary intentions. Bernie said he had been waiting to see if Warren would run before he announced he might run, so even in private, she did say yes or no. (On edit: Besides, I don't consider her own re-election a great reason not to endorse any candidate in the primary, when the difference between Sanders and Clinton was significant. If she's not putting the country first, wth?)

But again, the issue was raising money to pass a bill that Warren and Sanders both know will not pass, without making disclosure to people from whom they are seeking donations. And, omitting all mention of Conyers while they are at it. Not that I have a brief for Conyers.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:37pm

@Wink

@Wink

Yup. And when the Dems are telling the people, yet again, that Americans can't have what so many other countries have managed because somehow American ingenuity invariably fails when the public might see an essential and basic benefit from their own richest-country-in-history tax money and the system specifically existing to serve the public interest, which is the interest of their country - that of the public whose Constitutional rights would-be government officials must swear to serve in order to hold or maintain public office in the first place - are the predominately now far more aware American people going to stand for it?

At great personal sacrifice, Bernie has maneuvered himself into a position where he can speak directly to corporate-media-restricted Americans and tell them what their government should be doing to serve their interests, what democracy involves, even if he also has to mouth some propaganda lines to maintain this. And this forms much of the reason that Bernie is still being smeared by the corporate Dems who find that what they thought was a token tool has somehow twisted in their hands - yet if they lose/reject him, they doom themselves even faster. And anything that ever happens to Bernie or anyone associated with him, no matter now apparently accidental or natural, will be regarded with a great deal of public suspicion and demands for investigation. They'd better hope that he lives forever.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:36pm

Martin Longman at Booman Tribune

has also joined the "Bernie as Russian agent crowd and is pimping for a Clinton Restoration. http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2017/4/4/135425/2671

Oh, and blaming Bernie supporters for her defeat.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:11pm

never heard of him,

@The Voice In the Wilderness
but he's late to the "blame BernieBros" party.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by PhilK on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:43pm

Booman is a pathetic hack

@The Voice In the Wilderness
He was one of the people trying to get electors to change their vote. His site is even more nauseating than Balloon Juice.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 5:19am

The veal pen is alive and well.

@PhilK

Booman, Kos, TPM all take dirty money from the party of Wall Street to pimp Hillary, Obama and party propaganda to their readers. Might as well be listening to MSNBC.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 6:36pm

In response to DWS

Fact that Dems have let DWS out of the basement to talk about grassroots after what she did to Sanders tells me everything I kneed to know.

— Candice (@BBCandice) March 30, 2017

DWS tells Sanders the Dems are already a grass roots party. Her "proof" is the defeat of Trumpcare which Republicans squashed on their own!

— Mark Girard (@clubmarkgirard) March 30, 2017

@johniadarola my question for @msnbc - how is this person's opinion even relevant? She was fired by the Dems for malfeasance, correct?

— kim (@kim) March 30, 2017

@johniadarola nothing like a woman forced to resign for rigging the primaries against sanders come out and still be against sanders. Stunned

— FEEL the BERN (@TikiPE21) March 30, 2017

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:12pm

yep. n/t

@gjohnsit

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:29pm

Re: "grassroots party"

@gjohnsit I cannot believe that Debbie Wasserman Schultz even had the nerve to declare that the Democratic party is a grassroots party. It was less than a year ago, DWS declared the exact opposite when questioned by Jake Tapper about super delegates and their purpose.

“What do you tell voters who are new to the process who say this makes them feel like it’s all rigged?” Tapper asked the DNC chair.

“Unpledged delegates exist really to make sure that party leaders and elected officials don’t have to be in a position where they are running against grassroots activists,” Wasserman Schultz calmly explained.

Typical of the good scribe for the establishment that he is, Tapper failed to ask the obvious follow up question.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by featheredsprite on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 7:00pm

Good luck to Bernie and Liz.

And no, I don't pretend to understand all that is going on.

—

Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Submitted by MrWebster on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 7:14pm

Civil war or party purge?

I go rather tediously go back to Adam Schiff's (lead McCarthyite in House) comments back in January as he saw the where resistance to Trump was going:

Trump administration is radicalizing Democratic voters, creating a challenge for the party, Rep. Adam Schiff says
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-trailguide-updates-rep-...

Since that time, the establishment (donors, Congressional leadership, etc) have kept every critical position in the democratic party from Congress to the highest levels of the DNC party apparatus.

And now the ideological purge which is about destroying what might be called "the Sanders movement' and its policies by smearing Sanders and his supporters. As Schiff might say, do not let the base go "radical". Kept the base corralled and obedient, and importantly, kept them from challenging the establishment in the way Sanders did.

Groups like the Justice Democrats are more small guerrilla groups who will be defeated at the polls in good time.

But we may see how well Schiff and his buddies prevent the base from going radical in the next supposedly big protest organized by the Women's March. The organizers want it to be about Trump's tax returns and hence Russia, and "transparency", repeating Hillary's campaign. But then I see some people who want it to be about unfair taxes and Trumps tax cuts for corporations--things which the rich donors would not want broached.

My take is the establishment will use the Russian threat to keep order in the base, and it will work. Problem is, it won't generate turn out.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:16pm

Too late. That barn

@MrWebster
door long open, won't close any time soon. If ever. Bernie wins this fight.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by MrWebster on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 11:02pm

I think Bernie's policies will stay around.

@Wink But effectively, within the democratic party there will be no real support for those policies which I think is the final part of marginalizing the left within the party. Lee Fang of The Intercept went to a Pelosi town hall and reported that people really wanted to talk about health care, but Pelosi at every opportunity kept steering the conversation to Russia. Hopefully, her diversion will be the seed for many to understand how corrupt the democrats are, and they plan to do nothing on major domestic issues.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 11:39pm

Well, that's just it...

@MrWebster
Those Third Way dinos will soon be replaced by Berniecrats.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by pro left on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:44am

Well, It will be interesting to see

@Wink 2018 is right around the corner.

Submitted by pro left on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 12:50am

I agree

@MrWebster Imo this is just more sheep herding by Bernie and Liz in anticipation of more losses for the Dems in 2018.

Submitted by Wink on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 9:49am

Bernie no different than

@pro left
he was a year ago. And, a year ago he had no interest in herding sheep.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 11:02am

I live in Pelosi's district

@MrWebster
I'll be actively working against her.

Submitted by lotlizard on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 3:04pm

Wish more people had backed Cindy Sheehan’s runs against Pelosi

@gjohnsit even though at the time the value was mostly symbolic. The Kool Kidz at TOP were scornful and gave Sheehan no respect, of course.

https://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.de/2010/10/memo-to-nancy-pelosi-fr...

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:58pm

@gjohnsit

@gjohnsit

Yay! At a hundred million or whatever it is Pelosi's so far managed to acquire throughout her political career, she should have sufficient for retirement.

Perhaps she and her ilk could take up grafting GM apple-trees for Monsanto, instead of grifting the public for polluting industry and their ilk?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by SparkyGump on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 7:23pm

Chelsea Clinton / 2020

Because it's her turn now!

—

The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.

Submitted by Strife Delivery on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 2:21am

Better yet

@SparkyGump Clinton/Clinton 2020

"It's not just her turn, it's their turn"

Submitted by Lily O Lady on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 1:05pm

Stop it! You're scaring me!

@Strife Delivery

—

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 9:51pm

@Lily O Lady

@Lily O Lady

Hey, this is Clinton family business which will boost the economy by bringing the Clinton Fundation back on the laundry assembly line, providing yuuuuuge numbers of great jobs for their various useful idiots. They really need all of the money, OK?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Bollox Ref on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 8:01pm

'The Resistance' thing

is just plain sad. Democrats should be embarrassed.

Resistance describes those making life unpleasant for the authoritarian, occupying power in N. France, c. 1944, or those who participated in the uprising of the Warsaw Ghetto against same occupying power.

Wearing a hat isn't 'resistance'.

—

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Submitted by Wink on Tue, 04/04/2017 - 11:48pm

All true, but you

@Bollox Ref
gotta label whatever this is something. And it is something.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 8:57am

@Wink It's a bunch of left

@Wink It's a bunch of left-wingers and liberals buying the establishment line because Trump is horrible.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Wink on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 9:57am

That sounds a bit

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
like buying the establishment line, them wanting to downplay the "resistance." But, even if that was all this is, (and I think it much more bigly), it ain't a bad thing. Action is better than none.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 11:06am

@Wink The Resistance is

@Wink The Resistance is the establishment. That's why it's pushed by people payed large sums of money to work for the corporate media, like Keith Olbermann, recently known for shilling hard for Hillary Clinton.

It's soon going to become impossible to have any resistance at all in this country, because both sides are managed by the establishment as a kind of political puppet show. What they're doing is managing the people's desire for a revolution down safe channels.

And so, no, any action is not better than none.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 11:52am

Just checked on TOP

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal this is on the rec'd list

There were many moments in the Sanders Campaign where I witnessed sexist and condescending patriarchal language used against Clinton.
Echoes of what I experienced in my career in a male-dominated industry.

Echoes of what I experienced in close relationships with men – boyfriends, my ex-husband, my own brother.

Am I claiming sexism is the only reason Clinton lost to trump? Absolutely not. In my opinion there was a perfect storm of reasons why she lost and – yes – some were self inflicted. However, sexism clearly played a part.

I expected to see sexism and misogyny in the general election. But I was horrified to see sexism raise its head in the Sanders’ camp.
...
ET TU, BRUTE?

Am I surprised that many men – not all but far too many men – are tone deaf to the sexist, misogynist remarks leveled at Hillary Clinton?

No. As a woman who has dealt with sexism all of my life, it’s par for the course.

What does trouble me deeply is when I hear denials of sexism from men who self-identify as progressives. Worse, some of these progressive men are apparently deaf to the sexism in their own denials of sexism.

If women can’t voice concerns about sexism in our own camp without being invalidated — what hope do we have for combating sexism at all?

If it wasn't for Bernie Sanders and his sexist supporters, Hillary would have won.
TOP lesson: Men are all sexist, just like all white people are racist.

Submitted by Wink on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 1:12pm

yep, TOP is filled

@gjohnsit
with such posts. Filled. The level of denial is astounding.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 1:41pm

Sorry, Hillary,

@gjohnsit but if the corporate lackey shoe fits, you must wear it. No one has benefitted more than you, Ms. Clinton from the corporatocracy. When your income stream depends upon banks and pharmaceuticals and other major corporate donors, perhaps you must really have both a public and a private position. I won't even delve into your war mongering which was my own personal line in the sand that I refused to cross. Your baggage had nothing to do with your gender. Those who would not vote for a woman would have never voted for you anyway.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 2:13pm

@gjohnsit The

@gjohnsit The establishment has taken our narratives and is playing with them, like a velociraptor playing with a still-twitching corpse.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 10:16pm

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Whoa, nice capture! That's such an accurate verbal picture, it makes me sad.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by gustogirl on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 2:17pm

That kind of comment from the topper

@gjohnsit
works against feminism.

That overly-sensitive voice that sees sexism wherever she looks - that is playing weakness for strength and I'm sorry, but that really repels me.

I don't know how to fight that attitude, but it's far too prevalent and very whiny.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 04/05/2017 - 3:06pm

I was raised

@gustogirl
that being a victim was a bad thing, and that parading your victimhood was not something people with pride did.

Plus, just because someone interrupts you doesn't necessarily mean they are sexist. It usually means nothing more than they are being a jerk. It often means that you aren't giving them a fair chance to speak.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 10:22pm

@gustogirl

@gustogirl @gustogirl

Yeah, any actual feminist, male or female, would react that way. Especially including me!

Edit: I should have known that however slowly the page goes, I could never stop the actual posting in time to fix a typo until waiting for the full post, waiting to get in to edit, fixing the dratted thing, and then waiting for it to post again.

I suppose I could always stop making typos... naaaah, way too much fun.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 04/06/2017 - 10:18pm

@gustogirl

@gustogirl

Yeah, any actual feminist, male or female, would react that way. Especially including me!

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

The Democratic Party Civil War Has Begun

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