What will the Democrats do when they have to abandon the Trump/Putin konspiracy theories?

For the past year, instead of attacking Trump for real, concrete reasons of his horribleness, Democrats have gone off the deep end of crazy, irrational, konspiracy theories about Russia. Just visit any Democratic blog like DKos and witness the demands of faith in the unproven that is so absolute that voicing doubts can get you denounced for heresy and banned.

Which leaves one to wonder what will Democrats do when (not 'if') the Trump-Putin konspiracy theories collapse due to lack of any evidence? Will they change tactics, or retreat further into paranoid fantasies?

Perhaps most revealing of all are the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee — charged with investigating these matters — who recently told BuzzFeed how petrified they are of what the Democratic base will do if they do not find evidence of collusion, as they now suspect will likely be the case. “There’s a tangible frustration over what one official called ‘wildly inflated’ expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation,” BuzzFeed’s Ali Watkins wrote.
Moreover, “several committee sources grudgingly say, it feels as though the investigation will be seen as a sham if the Senate doesn’t find a silver bullet connecting Trump and Russian intelligence operatives.” One member told Watkins: “I don’t think the conclusions are going to meet people’s expectations.”

Consider, for example, former Acting CIA Director Michael Morell, who endorsed Hillary Clinton and called Donald Trump a dupe of Russia. His walking-back of accusations is nothing short of lying.

Morell, who was in line to become CIA director if Clinton won, said he had seen no evidence that Trump associates cooperated with Russians. He also raised questions about the dossier written by a former British intelligence officer, which alleged a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia....
"There's no little campfire, there's no little candle, there's no spark. And there's a lot of people looking for it."

Or how about former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.

"There was no evidence whatsoever, at the time, of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians," Clapper, a retired three-star general and career intelligence officer, told ABC News' Brian Ross in an interview Monday for "World News Tonight."

Then there are the Democratic politicians, the ones most responsible for stirring up the hard-core liberal base into a froth. Sen. Chris Coons is a good example.

Liberal Delaware Sen. Chris Coons caused a stir last week when he indicated during a televised interview that yet-undisclosed transcripts of recorded phone conversations conclusively prove that elements of the Trump campaign explicitly colluded with the Russian government during the 2016 presidential election....
Alas, here is Coons' walk-back under questioning from Fox News Sunday anchor Chris Wallace.  It turns out that reckless and sloppy pronouncements from powerful politicians isn't a partisan phenomenon.
What I was trying to make clear, Chris, and I appreciate a chance to restate this, is that I don't have -- and I don't know of -- any conclusive proof, one way or the other.

Which is why House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes stated recently that "What I’ve been told by many folks is that there’s nothing there.”

This, of course, will be unacceptable to some Democratic partisans.
The Center for American Progress published a report this week alleging the existence of a Russian "Fifth Column".
What are the chances of people like this giving up this fantasy? Which is why some Democrats are beginning to worry about the monster that they've created.

But with serious doubts — and fears — now emerging about what the Democratic base has been led to believe by self-interested carnival barkers and partisan hacks, there is a sudden, concerted effort to rein in the excesses of this story. With so many people now doing this, it will be increasingly difficult to smear them all as traitors and Russian loyalists, but it may be far too little, too late, given the pitched hysteria that has been deliberately cultivated around these issues for months. Many Democrats have reached the classic stage of deranged conspiracists where evidence that disproves the theory is viewed as further proof of its existence, and those pointing to it are instantly deemed suspect.

I don't see any other realistic outcome, except a mini-civil war at the Democratic base between the partisan shills and the realists. Which is maybe for the best in the long-run, but it will be disastrous for the Democrats in the short-run because it will distract attention away for Trump's horrible Gilded Age-era, Dickensian social policies.

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Comments

would gain them popular appeal, anyway the conspiracy nutcases on the right are better at frothing at the mouth. They have totally lost the plot. Many of us warned them pre-election that blind partisanship was a road to disaster and that they were playing into Trump and the right's hands, we were told impolitely to fuck off, we were not needed.

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@LaFeminista
like OWS, the Dems wanted to astroturf one, like the Tea Party.

And why not? A real grassroots movement will eventually demand the Dems reform themselves, and give up all that wonderful corporate money.

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detroitmechworks's picture

After all, they haven't done the kind of thing that gets the REAL attention of the media, and people are noticing.

For example, I'm sure they still serve "Russian Dressing" somewhere. Time to get that banned! We demand that it be called FREEDOM DRESSING!

How bout some Pogroms demanding that Russian Americans be WATCHED! They might have dual loyalties! In fact, ANYONE who has contacted Russia needs to be observed.

Time to ban the Headscarves of the Babushka's! They are trying to hide the fact that Russia is evil, and aren't kindly old Grandmas!

And Ban Russian MUSIC! Those are DANGEROUS things to have around...

They pull that kinda shit, and they will get the true believers and the rise of tensions among the American people. As it is, they want nothing to change... except for people to not Trust Russia enough to not be worried when we start attacking them. You know, the kind of long term, permanent war that we sorta kinda had under Saint Ronnie.

Bomb Shelters and Civil Disorder, NO. Happy American exceptionalism and Support of the PTB, YES...

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I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

@detroitmechworks when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

detroitmechworks's picture

@ghotiphaze It may be a classic now, but it was The game that Americans mocked initially as being pathetic because it was just a bunch of bricks falling...

and then they played it.

It was a perfect example of propaganda expectations being blown away by simple and honest presentation of the fact.

For those that didn't play it, this was the games version...

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I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

@detroitmechworks

I have never heard ti before, but it does sound good.
Why is it that most contemporary new music coming from different countries sounds better than the crap we in America put out?

America stopped putting out good music once the 80s ended.
J-POP would have to be my favorite genre of music today.

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When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

detroitmechworks's picture

@RejectingThe3rdWay Which I find hilarious because the MSM decided to call it "Problematic" right about the same time I discovered I loved it.

Hell, I liked Southern Rock and Bluegrass before they went on their full out offensive against anything that rural America considered fun.

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I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Azazello's picture

@detroitmechworks
Alison Krauss + Union Station Live is one of my road trip CDs.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@Azazello I'm a huge fan of Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits, (This stems from my love of "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" and Douglass Adam's assertion that Dire Straits was the most romantic band in history, as well as adoration for the Princess Bride Soundtrack)

Little off track there, but, the point is... Mark Knopfler did a bluegrass album with Emmylou Harris...

So, kinda got hooked that way.

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8 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Creosote.'s picture

@RejectingThe3rdWay
the music industry. And then everything went electronic, no more sitting with friends listening to and learning the new song, new record. FM corporatized too.

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edg's picture

@detroitmechworks I'm switching to Polish Vodka immediately. No more of that hackalicious Stoli for me.

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CB's picture

@detroitmechworks

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Azazello's picture

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

@The Wizard Slightly OT, but you get a major thumbs up for posting Nargiz. That woman's talent blows me away. Saw all her performances on that Russian voice show she 'only' nabbed second place.

She is stunning.

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@CB Not sure there is a comparable style of singing in the US. Basically a person with a guitar telling stories and singing their own songs or adapting Russian poems to guitar and song. The emphasis is on meaning and mood and not musical talent. The Wikileak is better explaining it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bard_(Soviet_Union)

Many travel the US giving "concerts" in people's homes and in small typically halls like in churches. I think this music is very popular in Jewish communities.

This video looks to show some of the more famous ones in tribute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN1RjnCEtnA

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@detroitmechworks

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

@The Wizard

Damn, I almost made it without actually crying - but wasn't that dancer amazing? I mean they both were, but wow!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@The Wizard @The Wizard OK, I'll see you that, and raise you an early Nargiz. Still seems appropriate throughout all the U.S. administrations since, eh?

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I really think they're in too deep. If they reverse positions, they admit all this Russia stuff was a lie and (hopefully) they'll be run out of town on a rail. I expect they'll continue to follow the Republican model of trying to live with the monster that they've created, pretending to fret about what has happened but never quite disowning it either. Eventually they'll become a bit more skillful about when to dole out the red meat and build some better restraints to try keep what they've created in it's place.

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@Dr. John Carpenter
was to simply move on to the next konspiracy theory, without ever denying the old one.

Let's see how well the Dems follow the Republican script.

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@Dr. John Carpenter
The D Party's flirtation with the neocons & Wall Street seems to be blossoming into a full-blown love affair. They're all in for a new Cold War now, even if they have to get into bed with John McCain to conceive one.

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native

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@native John McCain? Try George W. Bush.

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Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Dr. John Carpenter I think gjohnsit is wrong. THere is plenty of circumstancial evidence to point to some sort of Russian contacts with the Trump team. Personally, I think Trump owes them lots of money. We'll see, but to write it off as fantasy is premature.

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

Azazello's picture

@the_poorly_educated
I mean, there's Russians and then there's RUSSIANS! There are rich Russian mobsters and expats throwing capital flight money around all over the world. You couldn't do real estate in New York or Florida, or London for that matter, without running into them. That's not the same as being under the control of Putin or the Russian Federation. Even the Podestas took Russian money. That's not the same as treason. It's different from what crazy Rachel and this raving loon are alleging. A lot of people are going to end up looking really foolish about this.

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@Azazello
What happened to you?

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Azazello's picture

@gjohnsit

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@gjohnsit

My personal feeling leans toward brainwashing. Or a kidnapped loved one being held in Gitmo, next to the torture equipment. Possibly both.

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0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

@Azazello
Seriously? "If we had done this to another country it would be considered an act of war "

Dear Keith, we HAVE done this to countless countries for over a century or longer.
BTW Keith, do you have a comment about what the DNC emails exposed about how they made sure that Hillary would be the candidate?

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A noun, a verb, Russia

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg
I see a resemblance to Rachel. No seriously, look again and see if I'm right:)

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A noun, a verb, Russia

@the_poorly_educated

THere is plenty of circumstancial evidence to point to some sort of Russian contacts with the Trump team.

Trump has a hotel in Russia, so he would have "Russian contacts".

Contacts != illegal
Russia != Kremlin

What are you (i.e. Democrats) even trying to prove at this point?

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@gjohnsit Here is thee unquestioned and vital assumption that drives the Russian conspiracy: ANY contact, association or even proximity to ANY Russian is defacto proof of Russian control and influence. Maddow's conspiracy word salads depend on people believing this. Right wingers used the same sort of assumption to link candidate Barak Obama with Billy Ayers. Another species of this is when parents would complain about gay teachers because having a gay teacher will turn a children in a future homosexual. It is a guilt by association that would be hard pressed to even stand up even in a Kangaroo Court.

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@the_poorly_educated are not so much Russians who happen to be agents but more business associates who happen to be Russian.
That's the tightrope you walk mixing business with politics. Eventually both are compromised and suffer.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

@ghotiphaze @ghotiphaze

That and the fact that US (and many other country's) politicians are nearly all serving corporate interests - and a lot of them will happily kill to keep their billionaires generously happy. Business has no business messing up public policy...

Edited because I'm not actually awake enough to be commenting, just like usual...

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

CB's picture

@the_poorly_educated
president - in November 2013 for the Miss Universe pageant.

When he threw his hat in the ring in 2015 Trump was not even considered a minor threat in getting the Repub nomination. His winning the nomination was the surprise turning point mainly because the Repubs were sick and tired of the status quo. It was only after Queen Hillary and her entourage fucked up so royally that Trump finally had a real chance at the crown.

Do you believe that the Kremlin thought Trump was someone they could invest money in and groom to be president of the US at that time? If so you sure are giving Putin some fantastic magical powers.

Corporations are global and have been for decades. Obama even welcomed Russia into the WTO. This is one fuck of a bigger deal than Trumpster could ever do. Is Obama now Putin's buddy?

President Obama's Signature Paves Way for Permanent Normal Trade Relations with Russia and Moldova
...
On December 20, 2012, the United States and Russia agreed to an Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) Action Plan to improve IPR protection and enforcement. As Ambassador Kirk noted, “The IPR Action Plan delivers on shared U.S. and Russian objectives, as reaffirmed by the recent G8 Ministerial Declaration, to promote strong IPR protection and enforcement to advance our innovative economies.” The Plan advances both IPR protection and enforcement, endorsing a broad range of IPR priorities, including combating copyright piracy on the Internet, enhancing IPR enforcement, and coordinating on legislation and other issues. In 2013, the United States will continue to work closely with Russia to enhance bilateral coordination with respect to IPR protection and enforcement, including through the United States-Russian Federation Intellectual Property Working Group.

U.S.-Russia Trade Facts

Russia is currently our 23rd largest goods trading partner with $38.1 billion in total (two way) goods trade during 2013. Goods exports totaled $11.2 billion; Goods imports totaled $27.0 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with Russia was $15.8 billion in 2013.
...

You are afraid Trump is doing some business in Russia? Then you should be having nightmares if you see what other red, white and blue American companies are doing right now inside Russia. Don't be afraid. Take a peak.

American Companies Thriving In Russia: Is There Something To Be Ashamed About?
...
It's politically correct to hate on Russia these days. To like Russia even a bit means you support Vladimir Putin, or are impressed by the Russian mafia and probably hate polar bears, or something.

If it is so bad to do business with the Russians, or even want to do business with the Russians, then maybe these companies should cut and run before the righteous threaten them with boycotts or defame their name in the press.

Here's who's doing business with the bad guys.
...

The Russians really are coming. And so are the Chinese, the French, the Indians, the Vietnamese, the Germans....

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter

lowering expectations, or, moving the goal posts, entirely.

From Meet The Press, March 19, 2017:

CHUCK TODD:

I want to get to the point of, look, collusion is sort of what hasn't been proven here between whatever the Russians did and the Trump campaign. In fact, the former acting director of the C.I.A., Mike Morell, who was a supporter of Hillary Clinton, he essentially reminded people, took Director Clapper at his word on this show who said, "There has been no evidence that has been found of collusion." Are we at the point of, at what point do you start to wonder if there is a fire to all this smoke?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF:

Well, first of all, I was surprised to see Director Clapper say that, because I don't think you can make that claim categorically, as he did. I would characterize it this way, at the outset of the investigation, there was circumstantial evidence of collusion. There was direct evidence, I think, of deception.

And that's where we begin the investigation. Now I don't want to prejudge where we ultimately end up, and of course, there's one thing to say there's evidence. There's another thing to say we can prove this or prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, or there's enough evidence to bring to a grand jury for purposes of criminal indictment.

But there was certainly enough for us to conduct an investigation. The American people have a right to know, and in order to defend ourselves, we need to know whether the circumstantial evidence of collusion and direct evidence of deception is indicative of more.

I'm not sure how Dem lawmakers have the gall to show their faces on national teevee to discuss 'the Russians are coming!'

Wink

Seriously, a recent trend that I've noticed is that Dems are beginning to put forth more rank and file lawmakers on the Cable News shows (aside from the Sunday shows)--IOW, freshmen lawmakers, or ones who normally keep a very low profile, and/or who have little face or name recognition. I'm 'guessing' that this is because they have already begun to come to the realization that their conspiracy theories may not pan out, after all.

Mollie


"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers

“When the narrative at the heart of a system of rule falls apart, when the flow of history runs counter to the story told by those in power, then we know the entire edifice is crumbling under the weight of its own contradictions.

The political crisis arrives when the people sense that the prevailing order is built on a foundation of oppressions and lies. The rulers panic, scrambling to reweave the matrix of fables and myths that justify their waning supremacy. At such points in history, the truth is up for grabs – and a change of regime is in the offing.”

____Glen Ford, Black Agenda Report

[my italics]

Taro
Taro, SOSD

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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

that effects everything a person believes for the rest of their lives.

I noticed ABC News' Brian Ross is mentioned in one of the articles you quoted. He was the public face of the slam dunk ABC reporting that Saddam Hussein gave Atta the anthrax and that the proof was bentonite:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92270&page=1

Troubling Anthrax Additive Found; Atta Met Iraqi
By ABC NEWS W A S H I N G T O N, Oct. 29 2001

Four well-placed and separate sources told ABCNEWS that initial tests detected bentonite, though the White House initially said the chemical was not found.

The first battery of tests, conducted at Ft. Detrick, Md., and elsewhere, discovered the anthrax spores were treated with the substance, which keeps the tiny particles floating in the air by preventing them from sticking together — making it more likely that they could be inhaled.

The inhaled form of anthrax is far more deadly than the skin form.

As far as is known, only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons, but officials caution that the presence of the chemical alone does not constitute firm evidence of Iraqi involvement.

… Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the anthrax letters were being carefully investigated, but did not confirm or deny the presence of bentonite in the Daschle letter.

While it's possible countries other than Iraq may be using the additive, it is a trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program.

"It means to me that Iraq becomes the prime suspect as the source of the anthrax used in these letters," former U.N. weapons inspector Timothy Trevan told ABCNEWS.

In the process of destroying much of Iraq's biological arsenal, U.N. teams first discovered Iraq was using bentonite, which is found in soil around the world, including the United States and Iraq.

"That discovery was proof positive of how they were using bentonite to make small particles," former U.N. weapons inspector Richard Spertzel told ABCNEWS. — Brian Ross, Christopher Isham, Chris Vlasto and Gary Matsumoto

It later turned out, after the anthrax had actually been tested, that there was no bentonite in it. Cheney had repeated this lie on camera, and the impression was successfully made. Brian Ross appeared more than once to repeat it and emphasize the information was solid. Oh, well.

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@Linda Wood @Linda Wood to backfilling boreholes and in drilling operations, some even propose it in dietary regimes, some feed it to livestock

I bet within a few miles of home I can find tons of the stuff.

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boriscleto's picture

But the Democrats work for Wall Street too. So therefore, Putin...

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

https://youpic.com/photographer/boriscleto/

@boriscleto
in bed with Putin when they arrange a deal like Unranium One for him. But pretending that didn't happen is part of demonizing him now.

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dkmich's picture

They are either at dailykos or in the party to sheepdog, or they are too stupid to ever get a clue. Anyone that hasn't abandoned both is too dumb to ever catch on or evil to care. They can pretty well count on the whopping 25% that still identify themselves as Democrats.

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*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook

Pluto's Republic's picture

@dkmich

They poisoned the narrative of half the largely terrified American people, softening them up for war. US Style = Based on Lies.

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eyo's picture

Like this from the LA Times: Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job

Arnulfo Solorio’s desperate mission to recruit farmworkers for the Napa Valley took him far from the pastoral vineyards to a raggedy parking lot in Stockton, in the heart of the Central Valley.

Carrying a fat stack of business cards for his company, Silverado Farming, Solorio approached one prospect, a man with only his bottom set of teeth. He told Solorio that farm work in Stockton pays $11 to $12 an hour. Solorio countered: “Look, we are paying $14.50 now, but we are going up to $16.” The man nodded skeptically.

Solorio moved on to two men huddled nearby, and returned quickly. “They were drug addicts,” he said. “And, they didn’t have a car.”
...

Nancy Pelosi cannot find any one to care for her fancy vines, poor thing. It is her district that guy is recruiting for, I don't know who owns the Central Valley addicts that don't even have a car to sleep in. "We're Capitalists."

Everything is wrong in that article, misleading if you ask me. Please read the whole thing and as the saying goes "Think For Yourself". I already predicted things I think could happen and I hate being prescient when it's awful.

Thanks

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On a blog.

that Trump is trying to do (avoid war with Russia) and that's what the Dems decide to attack him for. It's almost as if these idiots enjoy shooting themselves in the foot -- or the head, as the case may be. And then they expect people to actually vote for them.

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native

ZimInSeattle's picture

Rachel Maddow’s big exposé on Trump’s taxes turned into a big bust: Trump made $153 million and paid $38 million in taxes. The surprise is that Trump actually paid taxes in 2005, choosing not to avail himself of the $20 billion loss claimed in previous years. In order to cover the flop, Maddow and Co. suggested without the slightest evidence that Trump leaked the returns himself!

+ Maddow claims the protection of 1st amendment for publishing Trump’s leaked/stolen tax returns. Fine. But she should apply the same standard to the DNC/Podesta emails, which she and the rest of the MSDNC crew continue to refer to as “stolen.”

+ Perhaps Maddow was simply preparing her cultish audience for the even bigger bust to come: the Russian Connection. The longer the Democrats, and their talking puppets in the press, remain fixated on the the meta-conspiracy of Russian hacking of the 2016 elections the more cover they give Trump to loot the economy, eviscerate social welfare programs and gut environmental regulations. Trump is going to subvert the country through unbridled greed and avarice, not through a seditious pact with Putin. Maybe it call all be explained as a massive case of PMS–Putin Mania Syndrome.

Bold added.

More: http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/17/roaming-charges-my-brain-is-hanging-upside-down/

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | Bernie would have WON!

@ZimInSeattle reminded me of Geraldo's Capone treasure exclusive.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

The question: Will they change tactics, or retreat further into paranoid fantasies?

Should be: Will they change tactics, or retreat further into paranoid fantasies driving the country to war in the same ways Bush and the mass media drove the American people to accept the war with Iraq?

Michael Tracey a reporter for TYT is attending town halls and reporting back the Russia is thee main topic of concern. This is no different than Bush/Rice ginning up fear of nuclear mushrooms. CNN has a poll showing most Americans see Russia as a threat.

At this point the propaganda war prep'ing the America people to accept war with Russia has been lost. All that is needed is someone to light the match that starts the war. Remember, roughly 70% of the American people supported the invasion of Iraq some 2-3 days after it started.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@MrWebster I can't actually tell.

I don't actually trust TYT on this at all, and I certainly don't trust CNN. That doesn't mean I'll throw away their poll results because of my distrust, but the problem for me is I can't tell whether their poll is true or rigged, because trust has broken down to that degree.

It's quite possible that 70% of America has fallen for this shit. It's also possible CNN, TYT, and all the parts of the Democratic-allied media are creating the consensus by asserting it exists. They do that shit all the time, even when the data disagree.

Case in point, they said there was a great danger Americans wouldn't vote for a socialist President because "only" 47% said they would. In a poll with a 3% margin of error. Which means it was a toss-up. In America. We're talking about a socialist president getting elected in America, and 1/2 the people say they'd vote for one, which would have been fucking unheard of 12 years ago, or even 8--and they presented it as damning evidence that a socialist run for president would never win the support of the people.

It seems to me that a frightening number of people believe this shit. But it's so hard to know what the majority believes under the current circumstances.

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Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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Pluto's Republic's picture

To: @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

It's quite possible that ... the Democratic-allied media are creating the consensus by asserting it exists.

I thought of TYT as alternative, but during this election period, they have stepped in mental messes just as Bill Moyers and Michael Moore have done. Most of this is a terminal experience in my mind, especially the Russia delusion. They went past the point of no return, professionally.

It seems to me that a frightening number of people believe this shit. But it's so hard to know what the majority believes under the current circumstances.

The poll would be touted as a majority, regardless, because the objective is to demoralize and marginalize the skeptical in order to manipulate them back into the herd. I watched that happen after the primaries when there was article after article asserting that the Sanders voters had returned to the Party to support Hillary. Nothing could have been further from the truth, but that was the manipulative narrative pushed. They think they can come back from that?

When you don't trust your leaders, you don't trust the media, and you don't even trust your fellow citizens, where are you really?

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@MrWebster

CNN has a poll showing most Americans see Russia as a threat.

Maybe so, maybe not. Maybe most Americans see only and exactly what CNN tells them to see, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it based on the results of CNN polling. The ability of msm outfits like CNN to manipulate and register public opinion has been decidedly on the decline.

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native

CB's picture

Enjoy...

Ann Coulter: Let’s Make Russia Our Sister Country!
The more hysterical liberals become about Russia, the more your antennae should go up.

Their selective misgivings with Russia are just like their selective alarm with (our ally) Chiang Kai-shek, leader of the nationalist Chinese government, and (our ally) Ngo Dinh Diem, president of South Vietnam.

As explained in lavish detail in Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism, liberals instinctively lunge toward treason.

They say Putin is a “thug” and a “bully” who kills journalists. Liberals never used to mind Russian leaders killing journalists. Nor millions of scientists, writers, Christians, Jews, kulaks, Ukrainians and the entire 1980 Soviet Olympic hockey team.

Have you guys heard of the Evil Empire? Now Democrats are hypersensitive to a Russian leader’s flaws?

Liberals were cool with the show trials, the alliance with Hitler, the gulags, the forced starvations, the shooting down of American planes and goose-stepping through Eastern Europe.

But that was when the Russian leader was Joseph Stalin or Nikita Khrushchev — not the beast Putin!
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