The Tea Party Of Liberals

Remember the Tea Party of 2010?
Their defining feature in my mind was their crazy conspiracy theories.
Recall that Obama was a Kenyan, Communist Muslim (among other crazy stuff).
But their paranoid delusions went far, far beyond that.

The tea Party believed some seriously crazy shit.

Are sex-ed classes just a secret plot to turn kids gay? Yes, according to Wisconsin state senator and soon-to-be U.S. Rep. Glenn Grothman, who once warned that some school classes are the result of an “agenda which is left unsaid is that some of those who throw it out as an option would like it if more kids became homosexuals.”
Grothman instead proposed that schools enact their own “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policies, lest growing support for gay rights in the U.S. lead to divine punishment.
Hice, as it happens, shares Grothman concerns about gay recruitment, once citing a satirical 1987 essay to claim that gay people want to “sodomize your sons” and “seduce them in your schools.”

No, really crazy shit.

At least one Republican candidate knows the true identity of the Antichrist, and it’s Hillary Clinton.
Ryan Zinke, the successful Montana GOP U.S. House candidate who helped launch the Super PAC Special Operations for America, told a Republican group that Clinton is Satan’s bride, and he knows this to be so because he speaks the truth:

And then there is Shariah Law, Gun Grabbing, FEMA, Secret Muslim Training Camps, and the North American Union, just to name a few.
In the end, it was always about the president, as this Vanity Fair article points out.

How many of you think Barack Obama is the Antichrist? You know, the fella (or fellas, depending on which part of the Bible you’re reading) confronted by Jesus in the Second Coming? Twenty-six percent of Americans either believe that the president is preparing for war with the Messiah or aren’t sure that he isn’t. (Of course, since Obama has been in office for five years, these yahoos should really start to wonder what’s taking Jesus so long to get back to Earth to confront the demon president.)
Hopefully, these are the same 26 percent of wackos who believe that the government puts fluoride into drinking water notfor dental health but for “other, more sinister reasons,” as the P.P.P. question read. It was all a communist plot, you see, to do . . . something.

Only 'wackos' and 'yahoos' believe crazy konspiracy theories, as Vanity Fair pointed out.
Which makes it all the more ironic when Vanity Fair decided to embrace konspiracy theories.

The chattering classes have officially lost it.... They’re falling fast. They’re speeding away from the world of logic into a cesspit of conspiracy and fear. It’s tragic. Or hilarious. One or the other.
Exhibit A: this week’s New Yorker. It’s mad. It captures wonderfully how the liberal-left has come to be polluted by the paranoid style of McCarthyist thinking since Trump’s victory. It’s a New Yorker for a future, dystopian America that’s been captured by the Evil Empire. The mag’s masthead is in Cyrillic and its famous dandy mascot — Eustace Tilley — has morphed into Putin. It’s now ‘Eustace Vladimirovich Tilley’. Inside the mag it’s even more feverish. A 13,000-word report, ‘Trump, Putin and the New Cold War’, is accompanied by a drawing of a deep-red, UFO-style Kremlin hovering over the White House and firing lasers into it. It’s CGI Hollywood meets House Un-American Activities in an orgy of liberal dread over Ruskies ruining the nation.

It used to be right-wingers who fretted over Russians and Reds and pinkos colonising Westerners’ lives and minds. Now it’s lefties. Trump is regularly called ‘Putin’s puppet’. He’s an ‘unwitting agent’ of Moscow, we’re told. The New York Times even called him ‘The Siberian Candidate’, echoing the title of the 1962 thriller The Manchurian Candidate, in which an American is brainwashed by Korean Communists to become an assassin. That’s how some seriously view Trump: a Putin-moulded footsoldier of Russian interests who’ll assassinate the American way of life, if not American citizens. I mean, Vanity Fair actually asks: ‘Is Trump a Manchurian Candidate?’ These people need a lie down. You have to get deep into the New Yorker’s prolix report to discover that US officials still haven’t provided evidence for their claim that Putin ordered the hacking of Democrat emails in order to hurry Trump to power: ‘The declassified report [on Putin’s meddling] provides more assertion than evidence.’

But that hasn’t stopped the left McCarthyists, these Reds on the Web fearmongers, from buying into all kinds of claptrap about Putin putting Trump in the White House. In December, a YouGov survey of Democratic voters found that 50 percent of them think ‘Russia tampered with vote tallies to help Trump’. That is, White House-eyeing Putinites actually meddled with voting machines or ballot counts. There’s no evidence whatever for this. In YouGov’s words, it’s an ‘election day conspiracy theory’. A kind of delirium is spreading.

What's truly scary is that we aren't even two months into the Trump presidency and liberals are already sounding like crazy Tea Partiers.
What will liberals sound like in a couple years, once a lot of these konspiracy theories have a chance to develop and mature? Who will be the liberal's Glenn Beck?
Does it really make a difference that Trump is Hitler and not the anti-Christ?

I'm fully in support of the public getting politically engaged, and I totally oppose most Trump's policies.
But this sort of ignorant reaction, based on little more than emotion will not produce the sorts of changes that their country badly needs. Emotion investment is good, but their needs to be something of value behind it, and that requires drastic reforms of the Democratic Party.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

He's Stalin. Or Lenin. Or Trotsky. Well, we're not sure, but something bad and Russian and authoritarian.

All this hullaballoo does leave me needing vodka, I'll grant that.

Dear god, I wish I could talk with whoever our counterparts are in Russia. Ordinary people who also think this whole thing is mad.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
What sort of crazy, fucked-up shit will be taken as gospel on TOP a year from now?
Will denying that Putin is the shadow president a bannable offense? Is that already true now?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit Well if they're deciding whether "we" should assassinate Putin, Assange, or both, clearly they're lost to reason and decency already.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal They're the first ones to call for killing other people.

Ah hell with it, this subject depresses me. Fuck em, I'll go with what I like.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks @detroitmechworks OK, that was a totally inappropriate response, given what the video is. Sorry about that! I was trying to add some cheer--and I responded before watching the video. Bad CSTS, no dog biscuit!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Your vid captured the insanity perfectly.

Heck with it, here's something fun in return, that captures the way I feel when talking to Condescending Politicians.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks Well you just got your revenge by making me want to see that movie (I skipped it at the time.) Smile

As for the politicians, actually Maui is a pretty mild comparison. I'm thinking more Wormtongue...although there's probably some poor souls still in there wondering how the hell they can get off this merry-go-round.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

@detroitmechworks
forwarded to my son... Smile

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mimi's picture

@detroitmechworks
it's better to not read some stuff.

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PriceRip's picture

@detroitmechworks

          I can always tell who's never fought for their life...

          ... or seen death up close and personal. The grim reaper is not a pleasant visage, and those calling for the death of another human have no understanding of the process.

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"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

earthling1's picture

@PriceRip But invoking the grim reaper smacks too much of the policy of "killem' all and let god sortem' out". Or maybe its just me.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

PriceRip's picture

@earthling1

          I have a long and storied history of non-violence and working with Seattle's Agape Community. Yet when some RWNJ on campus successfully generated a rumor that I had been overheard uttering a perceived threat of violence the Dean decided to investigate. And, to be on the safe side, I was required to get some concealing for my "anger issues".

          So I consider your comment that the context of my reference to the grim reaper,

smacks too much of the policy of "killem' all and let god sortem' out".

to be rather strained and extremely laughable. But as usual other's mileage may vary.

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"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

On the plus side, they're collected in one spot. Now, if only we could keep them there...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Strife Delivery's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Yeah in a previous essay here on C99 I made a similar point.

The narrative around Trump shifts between various thought paradigms which aren't really interchangeable but people do it anyway to throw out as many phrases as they want.

As I had said, Trump is now a Nazi-Fascist-Putin agent. Wonder how many other hyphens will be added here?

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think is irrational or wrong. Not one, as far as I recall.

There is absolutely zero question that he and his team have had extensive contacts with Russia and have lied about it. Period. They're on the record. Both in boasting about the relationships in one setting, and in denying it in another. He's been financially dependent on Russian interests for a long time.

I also think he is legitimately bonkers.

So I don't see any value in defending him. Chaos among Republicans is good.

So what if the "resistance" has been financed by someone? So what? When did the peasants ever successfully rebel against the landlords on their own? Never. They always need the elites to split and go after each other first. Hell, the French revolution started when some of the First and Second Estates got up and sat with the Third Estate, proclaiming themselves the National Assembly. So I'm not going to worry that the elites are at war behind the scenes. That's good.

What is more useful is to fight the DNC at the same time. March agains them. Embarrass them. Show alternatives. Whatever.

If there's anything to worry about, it's not the attacks on Trump. It's the constant reshaping of "resistance" into an elitist identity politics agenda (as with the giant investment manager who put up a statue of a girl in front of the Wall Street Bull today, demanding an equal right to oppress for female 1%ers.) Those ID politics are the single most likely development to run the country's growing political engagement completely off the rails.

Tea party accusations? Sorry, don't see it. It's still the right wing who thinks Soros is literally behind everything and the incompetent Trump is the "God-Emperor."

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@Cassandrus

I haven't read a single accusation against Trump that I think is irrational or wrong. Not one, as far as I recall.

So then Trump, a billionaire narcissist that the Republican Party can't control, is totally under the power of Putin then?
Saying Trump is a traitor is not a konspiracy theory.

Yea, that makes total sense.
Wow

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@gjohnsit I can vividly picture the eye-rolling, sneering, maybe even jostling somebody with the elbow followed by a knowing head nod.

IDGAF. I don't care who thinks I'm on their "team."

Fact is, we're well past the thin gruel of the "17 agencies" bullshit of the fall. Now we've seen him and his cronies openly lie about their ongoing relationships with Russia. "I have a great relationship, a terrific relationship, direct and indirect, just talked to him recently, I mean, no, I haven't talk to him in 13 years, no contacts, oh that's what you mean by contacts, well yes but context." Yes, I'm sure opening a dialogue about lifting sanctions while appointing the single American most likely to benefit from lifting those sanctions as Secretary of State only happened in brooklynbadboy's fevered imagination.

Hate to break it to you, but if you need to feel that somebody is a good egg or acting rationally in all this, you're going to have to face the music. Every member of the elite on all sides and in multiple countries is a failed self-serving asshole. They are all, and I mean all, on the take. Anything else is pure naivete.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassandrus No, but we're not simply choosing sides. Right?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cassandrus

I can vividly picture the eye-rolling, sneering, maybe even jostling somebody with the elbow followed by a knowing head nod.

Exactly like liberals treated Tea Partiers and their crazy konspiracy theories.

And do you know what? They were right!

Which is what makes this change of identities so ironic.

Fact is, we're well past the thin gruel of the "17 agencies" bullshit of the fall. Now we've seen him and his cronies openly lie about their ongoing relationships with Russia.

Yes. Which makes him a liar and probably a crook.

...and this is shocking?
More importantly, if being a liar and crook equals treason then we better back up the truck.

Hate to break it to you, but if you need to feel that somebody is a good egg or acting rationally in all this, you're going to have to face the music. Every member of the elite on all sides and in multiple countries is a failed self-serving asshole. They are all, and I mean all, on the take. Anything else is pure naivete.

I hate to break it to you, but you seem to have failed at understanding the point - the difference between corruption and treason.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassandrus I'm very disturbed by how effectively our thoughts are being structured by establishment narratives.

They tell you Russia/Trump is fighting Hillary+the DNC+Soros. No matter what position you take up, pro-Hillary, pro-Trump, or whatever, that equation now structures your thoughts.

But what if Russia doesn't = Trump?

Why does backing off from hostilities toward Russia=bending the knee to Trump?
Why does backing off from hostilities toward Russia=ceasing to fight Trump?

In fact, why does ending this new Cold War before it turns into a Hot one have anything to do with our opinions of Trump at all? Because Trump happens to not to want World War III either, for his own, mostly scummy, reasons? So that means what? That I'm supposed to change MY view of US-Russian relations, war, 100 years of history, and nuclear weapons because...because Trump agrees with me? Why should I care whether Trump agrees with me? I bet I was opposing war with Russia (then the Soviet Union) a lot earlier than he was. My views came first. About 35 years before Trump decided to become a politician.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal by anti-establishment narratives.

JFC Russian hacking is not some new concept that Robbie Mook invented. Journalists have visited Russia, interviewed some of their army paid trolls, we've been aware of their leaks over the years. This is a known known.

Trump's financial dependencies on Russia have also been a known known.

What's also a known known is that Russia's economy depends on oil and it lacks the tech to drill in the Arctic without the help of Western companies and specifically Exxon, with whom it had billions in contracts. And it's a known known that as long as the sanctions are in place, Exxon can't work with Russia and Russian can't get that oil. This isn't birthirism. This is reading myriad articles published widely over the past few years.

But somehow the Afterberners have gotten it into their heads that acknowledging these disturbing facts somehow means Markos Moulitisas is right and that would just be the worst thing ever and so these facts can't be true.

OK, as I said, IDGAF about Micropenis Moulitsas, neither his stupid massively outdated website nor any site spawned by his geezer progeny ever led to one positive action on any issue, the fucker just doesn't matter to me. But apparently he still does to some people? And I care why?

It hurts no one to let Trump burn. He doused himself in oil and lit the fucking match himself. I don't care.

What I do care about is this endless stream of corporate HR diversity policies masquerading as a resistance movement. They are off-putting to people and I don't really care about getting more vajayjays into the Hamptons.

I want to see more noise about Republicare screwing old fart Trump supporters. I want to see more noise about expanding Social Security. I'd like to see young people pointing out that the money Trump wants to spend on increasing our military budget could literally pay for free state schools. Oh, and maybe that climate thing, too.

But I really, really don't care if somebody is mean to Trump, no matter who it is.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassandrus No. There's so little evidence, even people like Obama admit that no solid connection has been made. There's no evidence that Russia hacked the election for Donald Trump, even if you agree that revealing information the DNC would prefer to hide is equivalent to hacking. In fact, some of the what's being presented as evidence that a state-sponsored Russian hacker of the highest level was responsible for the DNC hack, should actually be presented as evidence against. It's that damned stupid. And I knew that before the latest Wikileaks dump revealed the Umbrage Project.

For God's sakes. What high-level Russian spy would, while spying on another superpower, use the Cyrillic alphabet and take the online handle of Russia's first security chief? Nobody over 35 should be buying this. Anyone who was born into the Cold War and grew up in it should remember it well enough to know that shit doesn't work like this.

If I were guessing at Guccifer 2.0's identity, I'd peg him as an Eastern European guy who despises both Russia and the US, and is probably laughing his ass off somewhere, but even worrying about his identity requires me to accept a couple of assumptions that just don't wash: first, that Guccifer's hack of the DNC, which is the only hacking that happened, by the way, constitutes a "hack of the election," which is crazy on the face of it and equates revealing accurate facts about candidates with election fraud; second, that the hack of those DNC documents was the fatal blow that kept Hillary out of the White House, which seems pretty damned ridiculous to me. Maybe she shouldn't have blatantly cheated. Maybe she should learn not to shake her finger in a young girl's face in a rope line. Maybe she should work hard on pretending that she gives a shit about flyover country.

Maybe she shouldn't be in campaign politics. There are other things to do.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Bisbonian's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Well said.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Bisbonian You're welcome!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

CB's picture

@Cassandrus

What's also a known known is that Russia's economy depends on oil and it lacks the tech to drill in the Arctic without the help of Western companies and specifically Exxon, with whom it had billions in contracts. And it's a known known that as long as the sanctions are in place, Exxon can't work with Russia and Russian can't get that oil. This isn't birthirism. This is reading myriad articles published widely over the past few years.

You need to widen your reading list. Russia has been steadily increasing its oil and gas production despite sanctions. I won't go on about the Russian economy but did you know the world's largest herds of registered and certified American Black Angus beef cattle are in Russia? The biggest herd now contains over 500,000 head. American cowboys came over 10 years ago with the first herds and taught the Russians how to raise beef. (The US cowboys were unemployed.)

Both ENI of Italy, TOTAL of France, STATOIL of Norway and BP of UK have all been offered similar contracts to explore for oil in Russia. All of these companies have taken out various contracts with Russian oil producers in spite of sanctions. Between them, they have much more technology to offer than Exxon on its own. Russia will not lose out if Exxon can't work in Russia. Exxon will be the loser. In any event, Exxon invested $40 billion inside the US in fracking and it needs pipelines into Canada to access the heavy oils there. There's a symbiosis between fracked condensates, heavy oil and most of the refineries in the US. They need connectivity with pipelines.
Keep looking at the Exxon - Russian sideshow and you will miss the big picture.

BP's Projects With Russia Not Held Back by Sanctions
British multinational oil and gas giant BP's projects with its Russia's counterparts have not been set back by sanctions against Moscow, BP CEO Robert Dudley told reporters on margins of the CERAWeek gathering in Houston, Texas on Tuesday.

HOUSTON (Sputnik) — Dudley pointed out that the company has been working in Russia for a long time and is committed to the relations. "It's not difficult for us," he added.

"The projects that we have not really have been held by sanctions," Dudley said.

Working in Russia
BP has been working in Russia for 25 years in collaboration with leading Russian oil and gas companies.
...
TNK-BP went on to become Russia’s third biggest vertically integrated oil and gas company, generating more than $55 billion of net profit in 2003 - 2012. TNK-BP’s production rose by over 40% in nine years and proved SEC reserves grew by more than 30% from end 2003 to end 2012.

These results were achieved through the introduction of advanced technologies and processes by BP technical specialists. Over the history of TNK-BP, the joint venture generated around $19 billion of net dividends for BP's shareholders, while paying more than $190 billion in taxes and duties to the Russian Federation.
...
Through its significant shareholding in Rosneft BP will maintain prominent exposure to the world’s largest (based on production volume) listed oil company and the biggest oil producing nation. Financially, BP is expected to benefit from a Government decree implementing a base level dividend at 25 per cent of net income in addition to share price appreciation. Strategically, BP and Rosneft gain from the opportunity for deeper strategic and technological cooperation as well as potential joint venture collaborations with Rosneft.
...

DOMANIK OIL STARTS DRILLING IN SAMARA
February 07, 2017

Domanik Oil, the joint venture of Russia’s Rosneft and Norway’s Statoil, started first drilling as part of venture development in Russia’s Samara Region, Rosneft said in a statement: “During the pilot phase planned for 2016-2019, Domanik Oil AS intends to drill and test at least three horizontal exploration wells, as well as to conduct advanced studies at the license areas of Samaraneftegaz, Rosneft subsidiary. The JV plans to use the most efficient development technologies, including multistage hydraulic fracturing.” The statement added that the drilling, aimed at researching tight hydrocarbon reserves of Domanik sediments, creates new grounds for cooperation of the two companies and contributes to fulfilling their previous cooperation agreements.
...
According to Wood Mackenzie, The Domanik formation is one of the major source rocks of the Volga-Urals Basin. It covers an area of over 400,000 square kilometres. Some reports have suggested over a trillion tonnes of buried organic material in the Domanik – potentially leading to around a trillion barrels of oil in place. (Source: Domanik Oil)

Oil Exploration Begins in the Sea of Okhotsk as Russia and Norway Continue to Co-operate
Despite sanctions, Norway’s Statoil has expressed its desire to continue deepening ties with Russia’s state owned oil company, Rosneft. The majority ownership of both companies belongs to their respective national governments. This has blurred the lines between political will, business interests, and profit margins of state oil funds. Statoil’s fund currently exceeds 1 million Norwegian kroners (over $150,000 CND) per Norwegian citizen. This has been an incentive to resolve political disputes that block oil field development.

One such example is the signing of an agreement resolving Russia and Norway’s Arctic border dispute. Entering into force on July 7, 2011, the Russia-Norway Treaty Concerning Maritime Delimitation and Cooperation in the Barents Sea and the Arctic Ocean is a relatively recent example of Arctic cooperation between a NATO member state and Russia.

Big growth for Russian Arctic oil in 2016
6 February 2017
Production last year increased by more than 17 percent in the country’s three main Arctic oil regions.

Data from regional authorities show that oil extraction in the Yamal-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, the Nenets Autonomous Okrug and the Komi Republic in 2016 increased to a total of 57,6 million tons, a growth of more than 17 percent from 2015.

The increase was the biggest in the Yamal Nenets AO where production amounted to 26,87 million tons, up 29,9 percent from the previous year, Neftegaz reports. A key reason for the growth is the opening of new regional fields, among them the Yarudeyskoye and Novoportovskoye fields. In addition comes the East Messoyakha field where production was launched in September 2016.

The latter holds more than 470 million tons of extractable oil and is connected with the new 485 km long Zapolyarye-Purne pipeline.
...
The Russian oil production is likely to shrink in 2017 as the country has committed itself to cut extraction in a deal with OPEC. The Russian cuts could amount to 300,000 barrels per day.

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@CB

diversify its economy and increase its self-reliance. Something we've been too stupid to do. I read somewhere that we're dependent on Russia (!) for essential parts of jet engines.

Our sanctions did & do hurt Europe's farmers, though.

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CB's picture

@Sunspots
China uses most of what it produces leaving Russia as the main supplier. The US imports about 80% of it's consumption. Modern aircraft use many tons of titanium for engines, air-frames, landing gear and even skins (F-35). The A-10 uses several tons just for armor. War ships of all kinds also use titanium.

Russia’s Verkhnyaya Salda Metallurgical Production Association is the major titanium supplier to Boeing and United Technologies, both major defense industries. It is also the main supplier to Boeing and Airbus.

When Putin re-nationalized the oil producers and defense industries he ensured the titanium producers would be included. All these industries had originally been privatized by the Harvard economics "experts" with the help of the US Treasury, World Bank and IMF.

Putin went from FSB darling of the west in the 90's (by doing their dirty work) to persona non grata and enemy #1 within a few years of becoming president of Russia in 2000. Putin kicked out dozens of oligarchs who were pillaging Russia and carrying out 100's of $billions to foreign nations. It was the largest stripping of a nation's assets in world history.

Putin played the west masterfully and ended up rebuilding Russia as a powerful independent state.

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@Cassandrus

JFC Russian hacking is not some new concept that Robbie Mook invented. Journalists have visited Russia, interviewed some of their army paid trolls, we've been aware of their leaks over the years. This is a known known.

Which means that all hackers in Russia are working for the Kremlin.

Yes. You see the problem now.
Let's say someone from Russia hacked the DNC in America.
It had a Russian IP, so it must have been Putin himself!

But now you know that Russia doesn't equal the Kremlin.
Hell, the Russian Central Bank got hacked a few months back, and I seriously doubt the Kremlin did it.

The same thing goes for Trump.
He talked to Russians and didn't fess up.
It must have been treason!

Or it was run-of-the-mill corruption. Which do you think is more likely?

This marks the difference between healthy skepticism and believing konspiracy theories.
It's like the difference between believing there was a second shooter of JFK, and believing that JFK and Elvis are still alive.

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SnappleBC's picture

@Cassandrus And honestly, I'm coming to think that no amount of organizing, party-reform, or any other political action can help us. I think we need to start caring about things like "reality" again. We also need to start caring about things like "character" again.

So yeah, I care about the truth much more than I care about Trump, Clinton, or any of the corrupt elites.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

earthling1's picture

@Cassandrus Apparently you have not read the "Umbrage" program leaked through Wikileaks.
One of the CIA tools gives them the ability to infiltrate sites and leave "fingerprints" of someone else, you know, like Russians. Seriously, did you just fall off a turnip truck?
The fact that the "sources" have never come forth is concurrent with these tools being used.
Once again, Wikileaks jumps up and kicks the CIA in the teeth. How do your teeth feel?

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

@earthling1 like yours. Guess that's different if you go against the accepted narrative?

But I not only read about the CIA programs, but I actually understood what I read.

Yes, the CIA has the capability to hack while leaving somebody else's fingerprints behind. But according to Wikileaks and all the Russia-doubters, the DNC emails were never hacked at all. They were leaked by a disgruntled employee. Some were just phished. So where did they leave all these false digital hacking fingerprints if there was no hack? Can't have it both ways.

Plus, your version of events is laugh-out-loud ridiculous. So you're saying the CIA wanted to destroy Trump by associating him with the Russians. In order to do that, the agency hacked the DNC and left Russian fingerprints behind. So in order to depose him as president, they first...made him president? Because clearly, that was much easier than just helping Hillary win.

Turnip truck, lol.

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travelerxxx's picture

@Cassandrus

Quite right here:

Yes, the CIA has the capability to hack while leaving somebody else's fingerprints behind. But according to Wikileaks and all the Russia-doubters, the DNC emails were never hacked at all. They were leaked by a disgruntled employee. Some were just phished.

Find who murdered Seth Rich - and who put that murderer up to it - and watch the whole sick mess begin to unravel.

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@travelerxxx but the one other thing to remember, not like I have to remind anyone out here, is that even IF the CIA somehow comes through after some "impartial investigation" and tries to show proof, they can fake that. And really, with as much of the public that already believes in a hack and not a leak, I wonder how many will make that connection when they try to show that "proof."

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@lizzyh7 Both leaked and hacked, I believe. The stuff Wikileaks has was leaked. Guccifer 2.0 also hacked the DNC. That was the only hacking I know of that happened, although they're glomming Guccifer together with Wikileaks and John Podesta's hilarious encounter with phishing as One Big Bad Thing the DNC doesn't like. And the Big Bad Digital Thing We Don't Like =Hacking. And it =Hacking the Election. So it =Election Fraud. And by a Big Bad Foreign Country, too!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

SnappleBC's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I'd say that about sums it up *grin*

Oddly, nobody seems to care much about the actual information revealed.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@SnappleBC By design, I'd say.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

And don't forget that RT reporting the news also apparently unduly influenced the election, because the voters must be kept in the dark; an informed decision is influenced by logic, which must be some undesirable Russian thing, as the corporate media typically carefully failed to adequately report many such facts which might have influenced voter decision-making against Clinton, even if they did make up 'facts' (and alter online polls and delete comments wholesale from their website - I saw what you did there on the first Dem debate night, CNN) to desperately try to influence the Dem nomination against Bernie and the people and to try to legitimize Her Royal Coronation at the Damn Notorious Convention.

Absolute lunacy; can't see how anyone gets fooled by any of this rabid nonsense, short of brainwashing!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Bisbonian's picture

@travelerxxx

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

earthling1's picture

@Cassandrus It's about the weeks long narrative of Russia influencing the election, which Wikileaks has thrown a wrench in the works. The CIA says Russian involvement, the FBI concur, you claim no reason to suspect it's not true.
Up pops Wikileaks shooting the whole mess down. At this point, do we question Wikileaks veracity, or the trusting people who brought the world Vietnam, regime changes, and targeted assinations of American citizens and continuing targeting of their entire family tree?
I'm sorry if my remark regarding turnip trucks hurt your fee fees.
But your attitude of move along, nothing to see here hurts my fee fees.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

earthling1's picture

@earthling1 With Assange essentially imprisoned, and lately, locked out of the internet completely, what did the government thike they were going to accomplish?
It has given Assange the time to go over the massive trove of hacks and/or leaks with a fine tooth comb.
It wouldn't suprise me he had all this ready and waiting for the perfect timing to release.
I'm sure there's much more to come.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

CB's picture

@earthling1

Assange has stated that this will be the largest WikiLeaks release.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassandrus Please look at my challenge to two pieces of the evidence being brought forward as proof of high-level Russian interference, and respond.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassandrus You're mixing up the secondary goal with the primary goal.
The primary goal is getting a war with Russia. If the CIA was responsible for Guccifer 2.0, it was so they could later rake up public sentiment in favor of increasingly hostile foreign policy toward Russia. This would be useful regardless of who was in the Oval Office, though of course, they expected it to be Hillary.

The secondary goal was getting Hillary into the White House. She was supposed to be able to overcome the small disadvantage of a hack of internal DNC documents. Most of the outrage over that would come from political geeks and activists and bloggers--a comparatively small percentage of the population. Donald Trump was supposed to be so horrendously bad and extreme that Hillary was supposed to be able to beat him, DNC hack or no. To be blunt, Black people and Latinos were supposed to stream out in large numbers, along with upper-middle-class suburban women, to give Hillary the win. But a lot of people didn't turn out to vote. Some of those who did only voted down-ballot. And it's possible that there was ALSO election fraud being done by Trump or his supporters. Apparently Greg Palast thinks it's possible. But we never can have that discussion because all we can talk about is the DNC and John Podesta getting their data hung out in front of God and everybody. Which isn't even fraud, and in fact, obscures the investigation into whatever fraud actually may have occurred in the Trump campaign.

I'm not going to be the one to bring Palast's arguments and data on here, because frankly, unless someone is willing to analyze, talk about, and take action on the fraud committed in the Democratic primaries, I'm not interested in helping them fight other election fraud. They can show up to my fight, and I'll show up to theirs; or they can fight their fight without me.

But it would behoove people interested in the question of whether Trump and/or his supporters committed election fraud to bring forward your best arguments/evidence, not this nonsense about Russia.

And by the way--my best guess is, as I said, that Guccifer 2.0 was neither a CIA/GCHQ man, nor a Russian. I'm betting Eastern European and disgusted with both superpowers. But the idea that Russia left such blatant footprints is beyond ridiculous--

or if it isn't, if they're that bad at espionage, we have nothing to fear from them, now or ever.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

CB's picture

@Cassandrus
to tank when her State Department emails were legally released by FOI requests to the State Department. Her own words were damaging her despite attempts to laugh them off. By spring of 2016 they had gone negative of Trump. They continued to slide except for the nomination bump.

The subsequent DNC hacks had little to no effect compared to the Podesta phishing leaks. It was Comey who had the largest effect but that was because it was related to the State Department emails - "lock her up".

The biggest reason that Hillary lost was Hillary herself with more than a little help from sites like DKos. Of course, neither will admit it. Ergo they needed a scapegoat - Russia and Putin.

Keep this shit up and the Dems will lose again in 2020.

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@CB
Hillary Poll 1_0.JPG

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Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

@CB capture. Your post reminds me of a talking doll, parroting the same stock phrases again and again regardless of what's going on around it.

Who the fuck brought up why Hillary lost? Who blamed her loss on hacked emails? Not me. You know, the person you were actually responding to. But that doesn't matter. You're just reciting the approved creed on autopilot. A broken record.

The Russians hack the shit out of the US. Of course they do. Public and private sector. And they have tried to help Trump. Right now I think their biggest contribution may be on social media. r/The_Donald sure gets more upvotes than seem possible without paid and automated help. Did they phish Podesta? Don't know, don't care. If the DNC weren't corrupt the emails wouldn't have been so damaging.

Is Trump way too personally cozy with Russia? A patsy maybe? Of course he is. I don't even care about the super double secret intel, their own publicly admitted behavior proves they were up to no good.

But none of that matters as long as you can show those mean Hillbots they were wrong! If it takes putting a white hat on Vladimir fucking Putin and making Donald Trump into a poor wronged innocent, well, thems the breaks, amirite?

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@Cassandrus

But none of that matters as long as you can show those mean Hillbots they were wrong! If it takes putting a white hat on Vladimir fucking Putin and making Donald Trump into a poor wronged innocent, well, thems the breaks, amirite?

Which is too bad because we can normally have intellectual discussions.

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@gjohnsit You are so invested in your narrative that you literally cannot read a single post of mine and understand what I have written. I know you're smart. I mostly come here to read you. I know you've got a passing familiarity with English. But you look at one of my posts and see not what I've written but a Rorschach test onto which you project your own shit.

I never implied that accusation about the DNC being a Russian hack was anything but ridiculous. (17 agencies, including the Coast Guard? Really? And Calculated Risk is Russian propaganda, wtf?) I NEVER SAID IT WAS. NOT IN THIS THREAD. NOT EVER.

What I said, and believe, is that all evidence points to the fact that Putin and the Russians are up to no good. (Does it matter exactly what he personally ordered, and what other unsavory interests did on their own? He and the Russian mob all hang in the same hood, as it were.) And Trump has been working with them for personal gain. Whether it all adds up to golden showers and ownership of the gas company, I don't know. But something is up. He's been financially dependent on good relations with Russia for a while. They've had a weird number of contacts about the same issue--making life better for Russia. And they knew they shouldn't have, to the point that Sessions lie about it under oath.

All of this is true no matter how much you hate Hillary and CNN.

If you hate the fucking Lannisters then you don't get pissed when they get attacked by Iron Islanders who betrayed you. You help them both wound each other, then take down the winner.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassandrus Why do you think the paid upvotes for DT are of Russian origin?
And who was putting a white hat on DT again?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Cassandrus

Yes, the CIA has the capability to hack while leaving somebody else's fingerprints behind. But according to Wikileaks and all the Russia-doubters, the DNC emails were never hacked at all. They were leaked by a disgruntled employee. Some were just phished. So where did they leave all these false digital hacking fingerprints if there was no hack? Can't have it both ways.

The DNC emails were internally leaked and the CIA tried to pin the leak on the Russians by creating false digital fingerprints.

What is so hard to understand about that?

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

@Not Henry Kissinger You can't create false digital fingerprints on files that you never hacked.

Do you have any idea what a digital fingerprint is? Like, a time stamp for a Russian time zone? A telltale comment or maybe a file name like Grozny? A known pattern? You can't have any of those in a hacked file if it was never hacked. An email that was leaked, not hacked, is not going to have some foreign code embedded in it. It's just going to include the email. Which is what we have. And it's already public. Maybe the CIA will later produce some other hacked documents, but there's no smoking gun in what we have.

The announcement that the CIA can disguise its fingerprints and cast blame elsewhere is not that surprising. Except for the timing. It's clearly meant to confuse people, as it did you. If the DNC emails were really leaked, the agency isn't manufacturing digital evidence. It's just plain old bullshitting. So the timing is very curious. Clearly there's internecine war inside the IC.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Cassandrus

An email that was leaked, not hacked, is not going to have some foreign code embedded in it.

The phony fingerprints are left on the DNC server as 'proof' of the alleged breakin. No different from cops planting evidence at a crime scene to frame a suspect.

So no, I am not confused. But thank you for your rather pedantic response anyway.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

@Cassandrus

The announcement that the CIA can disguise its fingerprints and cast blame elsewhere is not that surprising. Except for the timing. It's clearly meant to confuse people, as it did you.

You know you are too much invested in your konspiracy theory when you need other konspiracy theories to support it.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger It's hard to understand because the discussion was initially structured by incredibly bad-faith actors.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

WaterLily's picture

@Cassandrus

It's the constant reshaping of "resistance" into an elitist identity politics agenda (as with the giant investment manager who put up a statue of a girl in front of the Wall Street Bull today, demanding an equal right to oppress for female 1%ers.) Those ID politics are the single most likely development to run the country's growing political engagement completely off the rails.

I'm seeing friends, and friends of friends, re-post this ad infinitum today and it's driving me batshit crazy. If I weren't actively trying to swear off political arguments on Facebook -- which never convince anyone of anything -- I'd be smacking some people down over this.

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@Cassandrus @gjohnsit @Cassandrus financially dependent on Russsian interest? He owes most of his money to German banks.

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Solidarity forever

@Akze
But it naturally leads to corruption, not treason.

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@Cassandrus

It's the fact that this is a bizarre, weaponized form of McCarthyism used as propaganda to create the pretense of a Russian threat being used as an highly profitable excuse and incitement for an attack on yet another country on the 'kill' list of the globalists that worries me.

Not to mention that these ignoramuses actually think that they can survive (presumably even do so in comfort) a 'limited' nuclear attack on multiple countries (none posing any hazard to America, just profiting themselves with their own resources, rather than American corporate/billionaires in their use of American blood and treasure in the pursuit of wanna-be-totalitarian and life-destructive global power and control) even though oxygen-producing/dependent processes/life forming the life-support system on the planet utterly perishes.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

detroitmechworks's picture

Man, It's like having a second Childhood. I was born in the mid-seventies, so all of this insanity is so familiar to me.

So, how long till Hollywood starts having the villains as Russkies, instead of the random white guy terrorists? Ooooh, OOH! Even better! Random White Guy Terrorists who ARE Russkies!

Remember, they don't have to be EVERYWHERE... just know that anyone who doesn't immediately jump onto the bandwagon is clearly a Plant, Товарищ... I mean Tovarishch. I mean, Comrade... дерьмо... I mean, dickie old Chum... Wait that's British, uh... LOOK A DISTRACTION!

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks

I'll go to the hairdresser if you will. Smile

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Because, ya know... I miss MTV videos.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks I love The Cars.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks A new wave band turned pop whose lead singer sang like Buddy Holly.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

This is the PERFECT video

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When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

Socialprogressive's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Beer and bong loads and MTV, when they actually played music videos.

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During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies.
Does anyone know if they have anything like that planned when this one ends?
(asking for a friend)

Bisbonian's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Bisbonian It's gotten to where just saying Putin makes me crack up. For no reason to do with Vladimir Putin the person/political leader.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Bisbonian's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal , that you were going to say "wince". Cracking up seems like a far better reaction.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks I was thinking of collecting some of these...seemed pretty cool:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/GPK_8a_adambomb.jpg

LOL.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Strife Delivery's picture

@detroitmechworks I mean for a while we had the Arab terrorist thing going on. Isn't that still a thing?

I mean we shift between Russia, China (though not often), Muslim terrorist groups and...well that's it for action movie bad guys.

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@Strife Delivery

You have to rotate the produce to keep the fear fresh... otherwise, brains start functioning.

But if Americans don't think that the whole wide world outside is out to get them, why are they going to fall for the 'War Against The World Is Inevitable' claptrap? (Now with a trillion-dollar percent new Nukes!)

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

earthling1's picture

So what if it is? Isn't it to the tea partiers advantage to reduce the population of deplorables, or moochers thru childless marriages?
Really, what a godsend to these idiots. Do they even know what they want.
I could only wish the Teapartiers turn gay, because we could really do without a bunch of "little Teapartiers running 'round loose. Astounding stupidity.
No freaking snark intended.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

Socialprogressive's picture

@earthling1

how the human species ever got to the top of the food chain as stupid as we are.

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During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies.
Does anyone know if they have anything like that planned when this one ends?
(asking for a friend)

@Socialprogressive

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@Socialprogressive

They hadn't yet invented propaganda and the whole dumbing down of the masses thing. And at the time that actually healthy and nourishing food chain wasn't genetically/industrially poisoned with a long list of toxic and sickening nasties, many of them neurotoxins.

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0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Socialprogressive @Socialprogressive @Socialprogressive

They hadn't yet invented propaganda and the whole dumbing down of the masses thing. And at the time that actually healthy and nourishing food chain wasn't genetically/industrially poisoned with a long list of toxic and sickening nasties, many of them neurotoxins.

Edit: it appears that this comment went through one of the times I repeatedly got an error message, evidently before going back brought me only to an earlier message and then one earlier yet. Wish I could tell when they do and don't go through, despite very slow-appearing error messages...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Rachel Maddow has taken her substantial talent and willingly become the face of the Russia Russia Russia mania/meme.

She has become a Stanford/Rhodes educated version of Glen Beck.

What a waste.

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ZimInSeattle's picture

@jobu Is Rachel Maddow Becoming a Liberal Glenn Beck?

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

@ZimInSeattle @ZimInSeattle @ZimInSeattle The comparison is far from perfect but close enough.

If you define Glen Beck as a purveyor of thinly sourced, one-sided hysteria for the purpose of the Mongering of the FEAR...

...then, IMHO, Rachel Maddow has chosen to use her talents in the manner and style of one Glen Beck.

She is leading her viewers down a prim-rose path with nightly morsels of evaporating 'evidence', rather than using her considerable talents to show her viewers the "steep and thorny way to heaven" as any journalist worth their salt should.

Ah, but the former approach will win her a Pulitzer, I suppose, while the latter will get her the Donahue Treatment.

Nice find on the Norm Solomon article.

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Azazello's picture

@jobu

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It didn't have to be this way.

travelerxxx's picture

We can see exactly the direction in which the nation would have been heading in regard to foreign policy were there now a President Hillary. Many of us opposed Her due to the obvious blood-thirsty war mongering that was so clearly simmering. We were right to do so.

To me, Trump appears very weak. His own party's neo-cons oppose him, evidently desiring war. His own party's hard liners oppose him, attempting to out flank him on medical legislation. Of course, the Democrats - still led by the same neo-liberals who were so soundly defeated across the nation - oppose him, in collusion with the same group who pulled the rug from under Bernie Sanders and his supporters. That collusion includes close to 100% of the mainstream American press.

Nearly 100% of American mainstream media is now speaking of Russian Hacking as a fact, a given. Of course, there STILL is no evidence of this being true. Wikileaks, the publishers of the Clinton/DNC emails has vehemently denied that their source was Russian, even to the point of publicly offering a reward for information on who murdered DNC data worker Seth Rich (immediately after his death). Somehow, Wikileaks is deemed totally believable for years and years by the Democrats and neo-libs, but suddenly their explanation of who provided the email data is false.

I would like to see Putin come to the USA and speak to the UN, Congress, the leaders of the Democratic and Republican parties, and yes, President Trump. However, the situation has now deteriorated so badly that it would probably be impossible for him to meet with Trump. This is exactly what the war mongers desire and one reason I submit that Trump is in a weak position. Talking to the Russians is exactly what we DO need.

If somehow the rise in current war mongering could be shown on a graph, I believe the curve would now be pointed nearly straight upwards. Even a year ago, I would have never thought that actual war with Russia was a consideration. Now, that risk is critical. The Russians are scared and have every right to be ... and our nation is being led by absolutely suicidal maniacs.

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@travelerxxx @travelerxxx

We'd probably be dodging bombs by now if she'd won.

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travelerxxx's picture

@Sunspots

I suspect we'd all be ashes. Look how far Hillary and her war mongers have pushed our nation toward war with Russia - and she lost! So, yes, at the very least quivering fingers would be hovering over the nuke triggers, and all it would take is a twitch.

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"At least one Republican candidate knows the true identity of the Antichrist, and it’s Hillary Clinton.
Ryan Zinke, the successful Montana GOP U.S. House candidate who helped launch the Super PAC Special Operations for America, told a Republican group that Clinton is Satan’s bride, and he knows this to be so because he speaks the truth:"

Thank the gods I had just stopped eating, hilarious! The same yutz who literally rode into Washington on horseback, full "lawman" regalia... I needed that laugh today, although he could have a small point about Shillary...

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

@lizzyh7

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. . . I'd say that the die-hard Clintonistas are more like flat-earthers.

Flat earth logic: If the earth were round, airlines would fly directly between cities like Sydney and Santiago, Chile. But they don't !!! They always fly thru someplace near the center of the world, like Hawaii. Because it's shorter that way !!!

Clinton logic: For every deplorable I lose from the lowest 90 percent, I'll gain two soccer moms from the five percent above them !!!

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SparkyGump's picture

that Hillary was the worst possible candidate at the worst possible time. She's been running for president since 1996 and the republicants have had twenty years to get ready for her. The democratic "leadership" drank the kool aid that it was Hillary's turn no matter how high her negative ratings were. She thought she could spend her time at the State Department making deals with the heads of state and commerce while making serious coin with her foundation. She also thought she could rig the democratic primary before it even started with all those superdelegates and missing & changed voter rolls. By the time November rolled around, millions of democrats didn't bother to even go to the polls. The fact is Hillary lost the election more than Trump won no matter what Vlad did.

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The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.

earthling1's picture

@SparkyGump Have contacted my state Superdelegates asking who they've chosen for 2020. Still no responce.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

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